Reality (Put your thinking caps on)

Postby **Murphy** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 8:56 am

Ok. I want to know what you think all, about what I'm about to say because I'm really serious about it too.

Ok, now people say that I don't spend enough time in reality. They tell me this all the time. But really, a reality is some level plain of ideas and facts that everyone agrees on. Well I don't agree with them so did I just destroy reality? And another thing, how can I exist in "reality" when every person has three or four different realities floating around them(Lauren brought this to my attention) each person has the reality they show their peers, the reality they show their friends, the reality they show themselves, and the reality that is. And to be simply the reality that is would have to mean your very open to yourself and everyone, but it is human nature to be defensive, least that's the way I observe people being, so no one wants to share with others what they may not be willing to share themselves. So their peers, not knowing any different, accept their reality, their friends, not knowing any different accept the reality given to them, they accept the reality given to themselves, and God and sometimes the person ever really know exactly what happened. Therefore that one person just created four new plains of reality. And if there are so many realities, how can one measure sanity with it? As, we all know, each person has a different view of insanity, so how can we say, like reality, if you go pass this line your insane, when the line is closer to or farther away, depending on the person. Ok. This is some food for thought. Enjoy.

Postby **JediSonic** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 9:29 am

I assume you mean that your friends consider "reality" to be anything outside of TV, vid-games, and computer?

My head hurts.

Maybe it's cuz I just got done wresteling and playing all manner of unstructured physical activity and "rough house" with my little sister and her friend.

Postby **Murphy** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 9:32 am

...

Postby **Lochaber Axe** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:31 am

Jedisonic... I believe she meant this to be a philosophical thread or at least comments on her post. That post was rather uncalled for.

To me there is only one reality, the one of the universe that God created. What you refer to is not really realities but another metaphor such as a mask. A mask is used to either hide ones real being or as in greek drama as a way to create another character.

Thats my two ruples.

Postby **Murphy** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:43 am

But with each mask, each charechter comes a new scene, a new stage for them to play on.

Postby **Lochaber Axe** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:50 am

Scenes change but does the stage ever change?

Postby **Murphy** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 10:56 am

Well do the charechters belong in the same play? You cannot have opposite charechters on the same stage. For example, This boy at my church says he is against bullying, but yet at school, he bullies me! Now if he were to bully me at church, and the two created realities collided, what then would happen?

Postby **Lochaber Axe** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:04 am

That is just hypocrisy then. He wears a mask to God, and tries to hide his bullying from the Lord. We put on masks to hide from the truth sometimes.

Postby **HondaTooru** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:05 am

I think there is really only one reality, just many different ways of perceiving it. All of us may look at a piece of abstract art and see different things, but it's still the same piece of artwork, isn't it? As far as what constitutes insanity, I suppose that's an extremely perverse perception of reality. A total lack of common sense or conscience. I don't think there is really a clear definition for it, or that it can be diagnosed without a certain degree of difficulty. Many geniuses are perceived as insane because the reality that they see is something that we cannot comphrehend. That being said, who but God really knows who is insane and who isn't?

Postby **Murphy** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:12 am

HondaTooru wrote:Many geniuses are perceived as insane because the reality that they see is something that we cannot comphrehend.

Exactly. They see and live in a reality beyond our comprehension.

Postby **Straylight** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 1:25 pm

I think it's often necesarry to change your behavior and the way you interact with people according to your surroundings. For example, if you are employed and work with clients, you will be trying to act in a professional way that reflects the company you work for.

If one of these clients comes to you and gives you an earfull of abuse, you have to take it with a smile, however if you were at school you might decide to return the sentiments.

"being yourself" in the job scenario might end you up with the sack..

Inncidentally, that's why I love the idea of working in a computing/science job - you're basically operating equipment, and unlike a lot of other jobs you don't have to tire yourself out with putting on a false face all time. Unless perhaps you work in tech support... hehe :evil:

Postby **cbwing0** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 5:42 pm

I agree that there is really only one objective reality. What changes is the environment, and our approach to reality, depending on which philosophy you prefer.

In terms of environment, your actions and beliefs influence the people/things around you. This in turn changes their reaction to you, which then changes your thoughts and actions. This is a more or less continuous cycle referred to by social learning theorists as reciprocal determinism. So, in some sense, we do live in different realities based on our actions, but only in relation to other possible realities that will never be actualized (except for others, but then that is not the same).

To take the statement that you create your own reality more literally, it can be said that we choose to live a particular way based on our perceptions of the world. Thus, if you believe that you are helpless to act in the face of external forces, you probably won't take very much initiative in your daily life. This can affect mental health (mentally ill individuals often have an extreme tendency to attribute their fate entirely to external forces), and self-esteem.

A lot of the variability depends on your sense of personal responsibility for your actions, although mental predispositions to insanity may also have a major effect.

Of course, some people, whether they are geniuses or lunatics, have a view of reality with a low degree of congruence with the standard societal conception of reality. Such people may face ridicule, isolation, or even institutionalization. That depends on how much your ideas affect (read: bother) others.

Since Christians are supposed to be in some way "different" from worldly culture, it is to be expected that they encounter these difficulties more often that other people. Add to that the fact that Christian anime/video game lovers are a minority within Christianity, and you could easily see why people accuse you of being out of touch with reality. You just derive your beliefs from different sources.

Postby **Dirge** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:10 am

hmm... I'm glad that you posted this, murphy, so that I/we could get other perspectives.
One thing that you left out:
I also think that reality is something that no one could ever reach. When you hear "the reality of it is.." you are pretty much expecting something bad. "Take drugs and you have fun, but the reality of it is.."
So really, reality is pain and death and such. So if you are happy, then you are not in reality, you are in a dream state/world. If everything is going great, your reality is just a dream, and it is blocking you from seeing what is really out there.
Parents hide you from reality, because it is so bad. All through your childhood you were naive, and didn't know about the true pain of reality. Then it seems that as a teen, it hits you, harder than ever- because of how cruel most youth is, and how if you are the way you are, then you are shunned- for not being cool.
But I think the people that judge like that are simply cows- following the herd. Never being original because that wouldnt be what everyone else is doing.
In short- Reality will never be reached by a sane person, for reality is not happiness, and the person that experiances it, would most likely kill themselves. So we will never know.
*moo*

Postby **cbwing0** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:31 am

In short- Reality will never be reached by a sane person, for reality is not happiness, and the person that experiances it, would most likely kill themselves. So we will never know.

I disagree. The reality that you are speaking of here is what would otherwise be referred to as "consequences." Thus, you can do drugs, but the reality (i.e. consequences) are that you will become addicted, lose opportunities, etc. (keep in mind, these are merely examples: I am not trying to start a debate on the effects of drug use). You could forego homework, but the reality is that if you do, you will probably fail your classes. This is reality in the sense that you are using, and it can be good OR bad, depending on your actions. The negative is only one side of the coin.

I am also a little bit wary of the overtones of your post. Do you realize what other philosophy expresses that same belief? I'll give you a hint: it isn't Christianity (depending on what you meant, although it looks pretty clear).

Of course, if you are the victim of circumstances and/or make bad choices, then the reality (consequences) that you may have to face will be grim. But that is only one option, and it is not necessarily a choice between conformity and nonconformity.

Postby **Murphy** » Sun Nov 23, 2003 12:39 pm

I wish I could rember the name of the book but.... anyways, in this book, it explains how with each problem a new reality/dimension is made by the choices you made and didn't made. You were born into a reality shared by others but then with all the choices you mad/didn't make a new dimension appears with the choice you chosse not to make. It is anoth way to describe what Dirge is saying with the consequences of the desicions you make. It is also an episode of "that's so Wierd" I think that is what it is called...with Fi? Heh...How confusing.

Postby **Murphy** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:21 pm

whhhyy does "reality" keep coming up bold and red?! @.@
Actually, what I'm thinking of about reality is that it is in a whole different kind of dimention so to speak.
We are living in a litteral dream, and the only way to reach this so-called reality is to have all the effects of the real reality- of that different sort of world..

((arg! sorry, this is Dirge now, I was helpin Murphy with some posts and forgot I wasnt in logged.. yeah..))

Postby **cbwing0** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:31 pm

Actually, what I'm thinking of about reality is that it is in a whole different kind of dimention so to speak.

So now we're talking about reality in a metaphysical sense. That is much more interesting than where we started.

At any rate, I don't think that reality is "another" dimension: it is THE dimension. You also don't have to experience all of the effects of reality in order to be living in reality. Of course, that depends on what you mean by the word "experience." If you mean "attend to," then no one can fully experience reality, because no one is completely aware of all of their sensory input/surroundings at any one moment.

Reality is more than we can see, as it includes the supernatural, but there is nothing mystical or illusory about the reality in which we exist.

Postby **JediSonic** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:03 am

Okay, um, sorry for that first post.

Anyway, I don't suppose there's any way that we could ever really determine how many "dimensions" there are. I mean, we've got hieght, width, depth, and time; I don't think anything else really applies to us. And even if it did we wouldn't know if that was the LAST dimension or not. Weird.

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:55 pm

There is one reality, and that is God (I got an "A" in christianese)

Actually, yeah... I believe there is one reality and everyone has a small piece of it... In addition to that, most of them have a twisted perception of either all of reality, or just everyone elses sliver of perception...

The only one that has the full grasp is God... That's why the Bible is composed by many people, because those people have a unique perspective and way for God to talk through, and each of them creates a more complete picture: The starting point for the full story to come.

I think every Christian has a piece of the mind of Christ. That's why fellowship is so important, but we all also have some twisted perceptions as well... I think that being together, as long as we don't kill each other over it, will cause us all to, using each other and the words in the bible, get more and more aligned to what is really there...

BTW: Another annoying word is discovered: Dimension... See, it's not that the word itself is annoying, it's just that most people use it wrong... (not saying you did...) A dimension isn't a place, it's a direction (well, axis would be more precise... a set of 2 directions)... We can only see 3 and feel 4, but many believe there are 6 more axes... If that's true, it means a lot of interesting things... But, interesting or not it's probably not that important (unless it has some bearing on transportation or something...)

Speaking of wormholes, I had a pen in my hand, with the cap on, and it was just a little loose... I could see the cap, I looked at my computer (with my thumb on the cap) and pushed down on it (to seal the pen) and my finger touched the tip of the pen (EDIT: I said cap last time... Brain fart)... There was no possible way it could have fallen off, since my thumb was on it, and it wasn't anywhere around my chair... Weird...

Postby **Destiny** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:37 pm

I think there really is only one reality and thats the one that God created
The other realities you speak of are more like masks. It's what you show to people, it's also what you think will please them.
However when you spend your life worrying about the past, or the future, you forget to live now, so you live in a reality divided.
I know what you mean when your parents (or other people) say you don't spend enough time in reality. The reality they speak of is your home, and interacting with people you can see. I'm real, and so are you, so then I am a part of that reality, I'm just a part that you cannot see. So really you are spending time in reality when you spend time on the net and stuff. Reality is the entire world, so whatever you do it is a part of reality because it does have an effect on other people.
I believe that Reality is what God created which is at this point, the here and the now. I think everybody has a role/part to play in it, and depending on what they do they effect reality.
^_~ Usually I just live my life the way God wants me to and then it's all good!

Postby **Murphy** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 9:49 am

I don't know it is obvious i'm struggling against tons of opposing oopinions but i still see things the way I always have. There is no set plain of reality. If you believe in something strong enough it becomes your reality thus creating a new one. So if we try to set reality when it can so easily be altered, then there lie our faults. I'm sorry if I've offended but I hold fast to my original opinion as I do not have any agreeable evidence/explanation against it.

Postby **Locke** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:14 am

try this.....

reality is the substance of hope

evidence of things not seen

Postby **cbwing0** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:14 pm

I would have posted this earlier, but I had an exam to finish. It went very well, in case you're interested.

Anyway, on to the reply.

I don't know it is obvious i'm struggling against tons of opposing opinions but i still see things the way I always have.

Perhaps if so many people disagree with you, it is time to reconsider your position. However, don't take this as an invitation to recite for me your favorite cases of people being right despite being in the minority: I am aware that this doesn't stand up as a logical argument; nevertheless, that does not mean that you should not take another look at other's opinions.

There is no set plain of reality.

So you don't believe in physical reality? The supernatural? Whence then is the basis for our existence? Did we simply "believe" that we exist, and thus cause our selves to exist? Please explain this further, because it is rather vague as it stands, and I don't want to misunderstand your position.

If you believe in something strong enough it becomes your reality thus creating a new one.

There are obvious limits to this: for example, if I could believe strongly enough that I was God, could I make it so? Perhaps that would become my reality in the sense that it would form part of my beliefs govering my actions/thoughts, but I would not thereby become God. Maybe a more realistic example is in order. Suppose that your friend has a deadly disease. Of course, you believe that God can heal him, and that God will heal him. Unforunately, as is often the case, your friend dies: what happend to your reality? It didn't do very much in the "real" world, despite your fervent beliefs. At any rate, this is weak definition of reality that disregards the fact that all of these mental construct realities interact in the same objective physical reality. In fact, that is where the vast majority of fuel for these beliefs is found.

So if we try to set reality when it can so easily be altered, then there lie our faults.

Not necessarily. If we try to impose irrational beliefs on others, or live according to self-destructive beliefs, then yes, that would be a fault. In most cases, this is not a fault: it is simply human nature to form generalizations and beliefs about the world, and to trust our sense perceptions. Is it wrong to do these things?

I'm sorry if I've offended but I hold fast to my original opinion as I do not have any agreeable evidence/explanation against it.

You haven't offended me, but I do wholeheartedly disagree with you. I apologize for turning this into a debate, but it is necessary to stamp out error where it appears, especially among Christians.

What sort of agreeable evidence did you have in mind? Would you like me to quote some scripture?

If you want some evidence for the falsehood of these beliefs, there is a simply experiment that you can do. Believe that you have one million dollars. Then, try to go spend a million dollars. What happens? I think you will find that your "reality" does not correspond to objective reality. Even if you could convince someone else that you had a million dollars, you would still not actually have a million dollars. You might be able to act as if you did, but you still would not actually have one million dollars.

This brings me to the final point. How do you know that this would not work? It does not work, because your beliefs (the so-called "reality" that you claim to create) do not correspond to reality.

Postby **CAAOutkast** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:33 pm

AND THIS Topic Is Why We Must Pray For Murphy.

God Bless You All

steve

Postby **Lochaber Axe** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 9:33 pm

That was very rude to just blatantly say that. Murphy has just explained to us that she is having problems with opinions and such. To just come and say AND THIS TOPIC IS WHY WE MUST PRAY FOR MURPHY, without citing opinions of why you disagree and that you will pray for her behalf, is offensive. You know how many times that has led non-Christians away? You must look at all sides of an issue, arguement, or debate.
Does not a common coin have two sides? To just fervertly believe that the coin only has one side and to never look at the other is not too smart. I believe that God created this universe and that I am a son of his through the blood of Christ. But do you know that I also believe that God uses Natural Selection each day so as to keep biological nature in order? Or that God uses Atoms to structure the Universe? Science does not do away with God, it inforces his divinity.
In war, you must know your enemy. How can you know the enemies doings if you do not study his strategy by closing your mind to it and perceiving little for it? Now I fully understand that I am attacking you through my words,and I wish to solve this grievance not on here but in the pm system.

Admins and Mods, please forgive my behavior in this post. It is uncalled for and is unchristlike. I will take full responsibility if this post causes an intolerable debate.

Postby **Fsiphskilm** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:48 pm

STOP IT !!! What's wrong with you people?

Postby **andyroo** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:25 pm

Murphy's questions are very important ones. People actually want to try and understand the universe and how it operates. Metaphysics is a very necissary part of the philosophy that helps make up a particular world view.

I've been thing your original question over as of the past week or so. Well, I am one of the others that also believe in one reality. Reality is God's creation seen and unseen, material and spiritual. I believe that there are perceptions of reality. One can have warped sense of what is and isn't around him. I think that our sense of reality is by nature skewed; the only One who can have a complete sense of reality is God. He is the Creater of all things material and supernatural and lives completely outside of time without a beginning and end. These verses with inserted comments may help: "In the beginning [of the cosmos] was the Word [mind, reason, thought, wisdom, intelligence, idea, law, order et cetera], and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same [Word] was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men" (John 1:1-4).

That's what I have through my thinking so far. I would have to agree with cbwing's post (or posts if need be) quite a bit. I can't remember if there was anything that I disagree with or not, but that would be some later reading.

Postby **cbwing0** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 6:18 am

I apologize if I came off as judgmental or harsh, but I was simply respond to the propositions put forth by Murphy in her post, hopefully helping her to understand the issue with greater clarity. Perhaps it was a bit irresponsible of me to turn this into a full-fledged debate, but these things need to be answered. The key is to do it with gentleness and respect. I stand by my beliefs on reality, God, and perception.

Postby **CAAOutkast** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:26 am

I Guess I Was Abit Judgmental, Sorry About That, I Thought She Was Using Some NewAge/Cultic/Occultic Philosophy. Anyway Murphy, I'm REALLY REALLY Sorry For Misunderstanding you ,And I Hope That We Can Be Friends{I'm Still Gonna Pray For You}. I Also Appologize For Upsetting This Board.

See Ya,
Steve

Reality (Put your thinking caps on)

Reality (Put your thinking caps on)

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