Romantic Love?

Postby **Azier the Swordsman** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:46 pm

What is it that separates romantic love from other forms of love, such as, say: love between parent/child; or a strong bond between very close friends? Are these all completely different forms of love or are these all the exact same thing? I'm just thinking out loud here.

Postby **TheMelodyMaker** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:48 pm

All I can think of at the moment is that they're each represented by a different Greek word. Either I'll think of something else later or someone else will more likely beat me to it. ^_~

Postby **Azier the Swordsman** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:54 pm

Actually, I'm talking about emotions/feelings rather than the different words for them.

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:07 pm

Ok... Love as a feeling and real love are different things...

Real love isn't a feeling, it's a lifestyle... And, that's the same thing for your spouse as it is for your children as it should be for every human being: To look out for their best (not for their comfort or for their wants, but for their best)

Now that requires different things depending on the relationship, but the thing "love" itself never changes...

Now, usually there is a feeling that accompanies Love and this is a good thing, but the feeling itself isn't love, because true love isn't a feeling.

True love for a partner is always acting in THEIR best interests. You know you want to marry that person when both of you honestly are {on your way to} look{ing} out for the other's perfect best.

Postby **Azier the Swordsman** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:49 pm

I'm still confused... if love isn't a feeling, how do you know when you are in love?

Postby **LorentzForce** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:54 pm

you'll feel that you'll give up your own life if you have to to please that person/object. that's when it becomes to the point where it's 'absolute' love. that's just generallising all forms of love actually...

AMV.org Profile · Postby **Orange Kitten** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:14 am

Chris4150 wrote:I'm still confused... if love isn't a feeling, how do you know when you are in love?

As the old cliche saying goes "You'll just know."

Love isn't something easily explained, and everyone has their own definition.

You just have to come to your own understanding.

"Love" is a VERY powerful word. Do not use it lightly.
Until you come to a complete understanding, my advice is to not use it. Because, as the word may bring complete joy to someone's heart, it can just as quickly tear it apart.

Postby **LorentzForce** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:18 am

true. very true. afterall, it's the opposite of the word hate. and it's actually stronger than hate.

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:27 am

Chris4150 wrote:I'm still confused... if love isn't a feeling, how do you know when you are in love?

"In love" is a term I don't find reconcilable with my faith... The question I ask myself is "How do I know when I am loving" and in that case, it's when I am ready to look out for that person's best interests over everything else...

So, you know when you are "in love" NOT by a feeling but rather by when you have been showed to be unselfish and loving ala I Corinthians 13 towards that person, and the same in return. Willing to protect, to take care of, to change your lifestyle, to give up your rights... That's when you really love...

And I agree "love" is not a word to use flippantly during a pre-marriage relationship... It tends to have an effect that's not loving... People use it to manipulate (look at my views on the "God told me to marry you" bit that guys, and rarely girls, pull all the time) and I may have used it in a bad way myself and I refuse to do that anymore...

Anyhow...

Postby **HondaTooru** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:11 am

"God told me to marry you" ??? Do guys really use that and not mean it? That's horrid!

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:52 am

HondaTooru wrote:"God told me to marry you" ??? Do guys really use that and not mean it? That's horrid!

no, most of the time they believe it, but of course I thought I was told that by God to marry a girl and so did 2 other guys that liked this girl... It's easy for a guy to convince himself of God's blessing and not really pray it through... This girl prayed and said God told her no, so because of that and also because of some things I knew from earlier, I stopped bothering with that one... And, yes, many guys I know have used that line to manipulate a girl into liking him... It is sick, but worse that they believe it... If God is going to "tell" you who you're going to marry, he'll tell you both at the same time... He's not in the business of causing confusion or dischord.

As for whether you should marry or not? I think that the marriage should be founded first on God (the kingdom of God and his righteousness) and secondly on Commitment, which should come with founding it on God. If you base it on feelings, it's a good chance you'll fail. The feelings are good, but they aren't consistant. You need to stick through it when she's broken your limited edition Level 5 Evangelion Model or when he's given out your entire collection of Trigun manga thinking it was the books you were donating to the library, or when she is having a hard time warmind up to you after your child has died, or when he can't accept that his Daughter got married to an ungodly man... When you know that you are going to go through these hard things together and nothing the other one does is going to stop the commitment, even if the feeling is gone, and when you've both prayed and felt right about it and when you base everything on the Bible to begin with... That's when it's right... Well, that's what I believe right now... I, of course, am no expert as I am single, but I have heard enough advice from many wise people and I am going to try to use it.

Postby **Tet-chan** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:31 am

HondaTooru wrote:"God told me to marry you" ??? Do guys really use that and not mean it? That's horrid!

Postby **JediSonic** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:29 am

Bobtheduck, you're a MAID?? You need to be like a marraige counselor or something :lol:

Seriously, nice speech there.

Postby **Michael** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:54 pm

On romantic love, it's between a male and a female that are married or are going to be. The love between same sex couples is just lust.

It also depends on individuals, some find romance in moonlit dinners some in watching Nadesico together.

In any way, it should always have God as the foundation of it.

Postby **shooraijin** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:07 pm

> The love between same sex couples is just lust.

I cannot speak for such couples, so I would be wary of using a broad brush here.

That being said, there is no doubt that it's morally wrong, just as inappropriate heterosexual relationships, even if formed with the best of intentions, are also morally wrong.

Postby **shooraijin** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:10 pm

And, just to make it obvious, that was not an invitation for further detours -- let's remain on proper, Christ-centered romantic love.

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:45 pm

Honestly, I think all romantic love is technically sinful in nature. Romantic love by its very nature has the subtext of sexuality, the subtext that someday there will be something more, something permanent.

According to the Bible, to lust in one's mind is just as bad as to commit the act. Technically, since romantic love involves a sexual element, it is glorified lust. Sorry for being so harsh, but that's the way it is IMHO.

This doesn't mean that I'm opposed to romantic love per se (the only alternate to it is arranged marriages where the relationship is built from the marriage rather than to it, and I don't like that idea at all), it just means that I see it as a human weakness which most of us won't be able to avoid.

As such, I don't judge on relationships-because I'm not one to judge :red:

However, could we just keep in mind that *all* romance has the undercurrent of lust, of heading in one direction?

Postby **inkhana** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:02 pm

>Technically, since romantic love involves a sexual element, it is glorified lust

Now I don't know that I really agree with this. Sex should be an expression of love (implying love comes first), and that is not lust...lust comes from an immoral element (otherwise it would be called something else).

Something else I wanted to bring up is that God said in the beginning "be fruitful and multiply" so He made it that way. Unless Adam and Eve planned to divide like cells, I don't know how else they could multiply...since we know that, we can assume that love (including romantic love) was there from the beginning otherwise God would have created a double standard, and we know our God is not a God of double standards.

As far as romantic love...I can't honestly give a proper definition (having never been there). As with many things, I reckon only God could tell you.

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:05 pm

Hmm. I honestly believe that lust and romantic/sexual attraction came to being after the fall of man.

Otherwise, God wouldn't have had to *command* them to be fruitful and multiply. . .because if such attraction had predated the corruption of humanity, they would have needed no command.

Postby **Azier the Swordsman** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:13 pm

I wasn't talking about romantic love with the subtext of sexuality, I'm talking about the FEELINGS you experience when you know you are truly in love with the other person.

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:14 pm

But what is the nature of those feelings? Never mind, I'm getting out of here before someone bans me. I'll stick to the other threads. :red:

Postby **Azier the Swordsman** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:24 pm

Let me just rephrase my whole question to avoid starting a heated debate: What does it feel like to be in love? What kind of feelings do you experience when you truly love another person?

Postby **JediSonic** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:43 am

Umm.. I don't know. Why?

*continues watching conversation*

Postby **Mithrandir** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 9:05 am

For the sake of the minors, I'll try to be as delicate as possible on this one. Suffice to say, in the proper context, there is also great joy that comes with expressing romantic love in a physical way. Not just pleasure, but joy in knowing you are sharing a bond that no one else will ever share. It brings a great closeness, and allows you to open up all other aspects of your life to that person. I've decided to skip the metaphore. I tried a few, but none of them do justice to the topic. I'll just move on.

Being in Love:
As has been stated before, there is a major difference between being in love, and loving some one. Being in love is something that is best described as a feeling. Basing a relationship on this is fundamentally absurd, as there will come a day where you wake up and are no longer 'in love' with that person. You may wake up the next week and find that you are again, but most likely you won't. When this happens outside of Christianity, it ususally results in divorce. Guess what happens inside Christian circles? Divorce. I just don't see this addressed in the modern church, and it really angers me. See how this differers from below.

Loving someone:
When you love someone, you are willing to sacrifice something of yourself to see them grow. This can come in many forms. The wife who puts aside her dream of wanting children for a few years and goes to work, so that her husband can get a masters degree he's always wanted. The husband who steps out of the high stress job he likes because it leaves him no time at home with her.

The difference stems from the fact that the word love is both a noun and a verb. In the noun form it's a feeling, whereas the verb form is (I know it's tough to follow this logic) an action.

Getting back to the original question...
"What is the difference between the noun types of love?" In other words, "how is the feeling different between the kinds of love you have between your siblings, parents, spouce and children?" In my opinion, it's not something that can be explained. You'll have to experiance it.

Sorry that was such a long way to end up at the anti-climatic ending there.

Postby **Azier the Swordsman** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:27 pm

Hmmm... it makes more sense now. Thanks OldPhil.

One more thing: If you wake up and are no longer 'in love' with the person, I'm assuming this doesn't mean you have no feelings for them whatsoever, right?

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:40 pm

Chris4150 wrote:Hmmm... it makes more sense now. Thanks OldPhil.

One more thing: If you wake up and are no longer 'in love' with the person, I'm assuming this doesn't mean you have no feelings for them whatsoever, right?

Yup... But, if you truely loved them the lack of feelings wouldn't stop you from acting out your devotion and actually loving them... Feelings come and go, but real love should never disappear because real love never fails.

MillyFan: I disagree that sexual attraction and what is commonly called Lust in biblical circles is the same thing... I just don't have all my points together right now...

Lust is another one of those broad words...

I believe that when Lust is condemned it's looking out for your own desires. Basically using yourself or others to satisfy a feeling, which is opposed to love.

Of course, the word "Lust" is also used to mean the very same desire I just talked about... And, the word Lust is also used to talk about any strong desire, not just sexual... I think this is a case of imperfect translation to an imperfect language like English again... Unfortunately, I don't know Greek (or hebrew or aramaic for that matter) to be able to get a more centered view (and even if I did, there's still the matter of the culturally specific that is hard to see because we didn't live in that day in that culture)

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:42 pm

Well, we disagree there. I believe that any sexual attraction is the sin of lust.

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:44 pm

Just as I read your words, more points came to mind, but using them now would be an argument instead of... whatever it was before, so I guess that's the end of that.

Postby **Mithrandir** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:02 pm

Chris4150 wrote:Hmmm... it makes more sense now. Thanks OldPhil.
One more thing: If you wake up and are no longer 'in love' with the person, I'm assuming this doesn't mean you have no feelings for them whatsoever, right?

I'm glad I could clear some things up for you.

As for having no feelings, I'd have to go with what bob said. TRUE love (as defined by me, anyway) would be:
1. In the unlikely event you woke up and had no feelings whatsoever...
2. Not letting it affect how you acted toward that person.

You can call it loyalty, or devotion, but it still comes back to love, in my opinion. You can't let feelings of anger, bitterness, etc get in the way of loving someone, so why should a diminished feeling of 'in-love' matter? It's a question of whether you are in it for the long haul. If you TRULY want to stay commited to this person forever, it should make no difference whatsoever how you feel about them right? Giving in to this world's view of 'if you aren't able to feel in love all the time, then it's time to move on' just isn't biblical. It doesn't take much thinking to realize that it's not even logical!

Example Scenario off the top of OldPhil's head:
* Starting from the agreement that divorce is not an option, a couple (let's say john and mary) decide to get married.
* They are very happy and life is great.
* After a few years they have 2 kids.
* The kids, the morgage, walking the dog, parent-teacher confrences, not getting that promotion and seeming to always be shuttling someone somewhere really make john long for the old days when he could come home from work and veg for 6-7 hours.
* Now let's say that john wakes up and finds he's not all that attracted to mary anymore. She doesn't light up his day when he sees her, he's not completely sure that he'll ever really be 'in love' again.

In this sceario, what are the options? They're not getting a divorce, so what can john do? He has two options. He can either grow or fall. If he gets bitter about the situation, does it get any better? Does he start eyeing that secretary that's always flirting with him? That path doesn't lead to a lifestyle that he want's to persue. The other option is: Grow. John has the oppertunti to show his kids what commitment really means.

Here's what I ususally tell people when they want counciling on the subject:

[i]To love another person, you must start by love two others. The first is God. Without loving God, and searching out his wisdom, you can't really know what love is. Second, you must love yourself. Remeber, love is an action]

I hope that explains it a little better.

Postby **Mithrandir** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:06 pm

MillyFan wrote:Well, we disagree there. I believe that any sexual attraction is the sin of lust.

I don't wish to start a debate here, but I have to say that, for the record, I disagree with this statement with great ferver. I've given years of though to this and searched it out. I cannot believe that that the attraction I feel to my wife is not from God.

Anyway, as bob said, posting 'points' to underscore the postion would be the equivalent of starting a debate that I do not wish to start. But I did feel my opinion needed to be there. I hope it doesn't offend you.

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