Myers Brigg

[mechana2015]

If I'm reading right and those are Enneagram numbers with wings, I see it, though the 9w1 is throwing me off since 4 is the only connection to 1 and thats through wing integration?

Short version is that I think I do, but the > signs are throwing me off since I haven't seen them used that way.

[Makachop^^128]

Basically this. It's not a big deal or anything, but it is fun nevertheless when you find someone else who has some understanding of the Jungian underpinnings. Makes it that much more interesting.

Also I am an INFJ 5w4>4w5>9w1. If you have any idea what that means... see me for your congratulatory cookie.

Yeah I took the enneagram, but it was a free test. I got a tie between 4 and 2 but I have a feeling it was a bad test, not complete. I still haven't read the profiles of all of those yet so idk what I am....haha but yes I agree with the Myers brigg thing the Cognitive functions are really important, it someone is really interested they shouldn't just relay on the test, and also its more interesting that way haha.

[Tereya]

If I'm reading right and those are Enneagram numbers with wings, I see it, though the 9w1 is throwing me off since 4 is the only connection to 1 and thats through wing integration?

Short version is that I think I do, but the > signs are throwing me off since I haven't seen them used that way.

Close! It's just an expression of (what I'm pretty sure is) my tritype. The theory of which being (and forgive me in advance if you already know all this), that most people generally have three enneagram types that they use, one from each triad: Head (5, 6, 7), Heart (2, 3, 4) and Gut (8, 9, 1). So while you'll still only have one core type, the idea is that influences from the other two can still be felt and can result in a lot of variation in how one copes with things, both negative and positive.

In terms of expressing it, what I tend to see most often is that people list their core type first and then the other two types in descending order. The > is really just there to denote the order of descent, more or less. So while my core type is 5w4, I tend to have a lot of 4ish influences that come up, especially when I'm stressed, and then I also have what I'm pretty sure are 9 influences in there as well, though those are less prevalent. Hence: 5w4>4w5>9w1

... God, I hope that made sense. :|

Yeah I took the enneagram, but it was a free test. I got a tie between 4 and 2 but I have a feeling it was a bad test, not complete. I still haven't read the profiles of all of those yet so idk what I am....haha but yes I agree with the Myers brigg thing the Cognitive functions are really important, it someone is really interested they shouldn't just relay on the test, and also its more interesting that way haha.

Yeah, most personality tests on the internet can be like that. It's understandable though, since all they can really measure is behavior and personality goes so much deeper than that. Definitely continue to read up on it all if you can! It's fascinating stuff.

[Furen]

Oh my, it's been such a while since I've done that, but I consistantly recieved ISTP for my personality.

[Dante]

wow INFP from a INTJ thats a big difference haha. although I did look into those types before I settled for INFJ.

Indeed - it took a mid-youth crisis to get me there too. Prior to the change, I was set for a life as an astrophysicist and was eyeing a second degree in computer science mathematics, or PhDs in ALL THREE. My ultimate life goal was to make it into one of the great universities for my research eventually - Princeton, Dartmouth, Cambridge. Science was my purpose. I would sit by the hour and just read one book after another and took the T part to such extremes (I never read fiction - I currently still have three bookshelves of solid non-fiction... and I ran out of room on them), I was convinced that everything was nothing more then mathematics - even love and the depths of my humanity.

The aftermath changed my life DRAMATICALLY. While I eventually gained my MS in physics, I nearly threw away my whole graduate education that I had spent my entire life working for. Towards the end of it all, I responded to a huge e-mail demand list with one word: 'no'. He was confused and afterwards, I informed him that the thesis was either done or I couldn't go on any further. I was fighting suicidal depression at the time and in many ways it came down to a choice between my dream of a science degree and my soul (because far more then my body was dying at that point). Of course, I also knew that my science degree would be worthless if died - what? Would award it to me post mortem? Who would care?

Of course, I didn't throw away what I had worked for either. I simply transformed it.

I went from solving advanced science problems to writing programs - (READ: I draw pretty pictures that I dream up in my head and then breathe into code). Still, I rarely use the full logic side to complete these tasks, but prefer to use the artistic 'intuitive' side of my mind instead. To describe what I do: I'm handed a picture that represents an idea of what the company wants and I translate it directly into code. I can do everything, the vector art, the drawing, the html, css, javascript, server-side code... and fifty pages of code and half a week later I pull off INCREDIBLE things. So I kinda hybridized my talents before with my new life. I also naturally have come to enjoy writing, but I'm finding that most of my creative flow is 'absorbed' by my work lately and I'm too much of a perfectionist, so I'm having a hideously painful time getting off of the first draft of the book I wrote during the time I was unemployed.

But yes - HUGE life transformation associated with that one. It's also coincidently the origin of my user name Dante - as I felt I went through the inferno to get to where I am now.

[Warrior4Christ]

When I last did a test some years ago, I was an ISTJ. I think they're generally regarded as the most boring, yet loyal of the bunch.

[Panda4christ:3]

Mine was ESFP :>

[shooraijin]

You're ignoring the P, which implies that they're more spontaneous then orderly (like their J counterparts).

See MSP's post.

[ADXC]

When I last did a test some years ago, I was an ISTJ. I think they're generally regarded as the most boring, yet loyal of the bunch.

Truth be told, I think we're some of the most interesting. XDD Sure I guess we may be perceived as "boring" but we have so much to offer and are definitely loyal as you said. We make sure the work gets done and such.

[Makachop^^128]

What are your peoples opinion on whether People change personality types or not? I hear most people say that you don't change your type but you just grow and learn who you are when you are older. And then I hear other people that think you change types. I'm kinda in the camp that you don't change types, you just learn as your grow up who you really are, but I wanted to hear your guys opinion.

[Okami]

I think I would agree with that people's personalities don't change, they simply grow over time. In my case, going from INTP to INFJ, the J was there all along, according to friends and people close around me (I have OCD tendencies = definitely J). The F and T are very close, but I make decisions mostly by feelings first, and as I am a very deep feeler, I emote with others very easily.

[Makachop^^128]

Yeah I can see in my past where I was a INFJ for sure, but I think sometimes people try on different types to see how they fit if that makes sense. At one point of my life I was trying to be a ISFP, have super deep feelings and be all nature loving but I know thats not really how I am and I once tried to be a INTP for a few years.

[Vilo159]

I got INTJ on the online test I just took. 44%, 62%, 75%, 33%. It seems pretty accurate, though I didn't really read any descriptions of what that interpreted to other than what the letters meant. I know myself well enough to not need something else to describe me.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

INFP - but I used to rank as an INTJ. Also, I doubt the INTP computer thing. You're ignoring the P, which implies that they're more spontaneous then orderly (like their J counterparts).

You're right in the sense that Ps are more spontaneous as opposed to the much more orderly Js, but this is simply because what P and J means in terms of one's cognitive functional preference.

The reason why I say an INTPs are "computers" is because an INTP's two main cognitive functions is Introverted Thinking (Ti) and Extroverted Intuition (Ne). This may be lengthy.

Introverted Thinking is defined as such:

The Introverted Thinking mind presumes logical order rules the Universe; illogic is dismissed as just so much mental clutter that needs to be swept out of the mind. Beliefs, understandings, and information is taken in and logically organized in clusters of thought, with principles at the foundation. It strives to fit new pieces of information into clusters of thought where it most logically fits. It sorts out and discriminates that which makes logical sense from that which does not. Like a detective, the Introverted Thinking mind is drawn to mysteries - seeking clues and root causes - to solve a problem or a riddle.

Ti: What logical relationships necessitate this system working the way it does, and how can I make them make sense to me?

Extroverted Intuition is defined as such:

Ne looks for novel outcomes and imagines how the things around you could be changed into other, more interesting things. Ne sees new information as part of a larger, emerging, as of yet unseen pattern that extends far beyond the self, and whose meaning will continue to change as the context grows and we discover more of the all-encompassing pattern. Rather than directly confront an issue, Ne will often broaden the context until the issue seems insignificant by comparison to the much bigger and more expansive ideas it imagines.

Extraverted Intuition scans the external world to explore new ideas, new people, and emergent possibilities. The Extraverted Intuitive mind is imaginative, inventive, and innovative - seeing and describing ways things can be reshaped, altered, or improved. It naturally energizes people and engages action towards a vision of what could be . . . of future possibilities.

Now let's contrast this to an INTJ. An INTJ's two main functions are Introverted Intuition (Ni) and Extroverted Thinking (Te).

Ni - Introverted Intuition reflects on patterns, relationships, symbols, meanings, and perspectives on matters from complex phenomena to magical connections to practical problems. The Introverted Intuitive mind typically creates a unique vision and arrives at unique insights about things, phenomena, or people. It strives to discover the essence of things and fill in the missing pieces of a puzzle. Introverted Intuitive types frequently will have complex visions or perspectives that they are unable to explain with clarity to others.

Te - Extraverted Thinking's focus is order. It is organizing and ordering the outside world; organizing both people and things to achieve a purpose. It is using logic and reasoning in dialogue with others. It is directing action, calling plays, and making decisions. It is purposeful sorting out; discriminating among alternatives. Extraverted Thinking asks questions, collects information in an orderly way, and solves problems in a systematic manner.

So see the difference? An INTP is more focused on examining logical possibilities all day long. They are essentially your philosopher or scientist. They are the bona fide logician. They are so focused on inward examination of possibilites and ideas. Remember, they are an INTP, not an ENTP. An INTP is about logic first, possibilities second. An ENTP is focused on possibilities first, then logic second. The INTJ is dubbed as the "Mastermind" because they hold a higher cognitive preference towards decision-making and getting stuff done. Yes they do this in within a logical framework, but at the end of the day they are trying to get something done. As the site I previously linked states: "This is why INTPs will argue hypotheticals all day but INTJs will rarely bother trying to convince you. For the INTJ, Extroverted Thinking simply doesn't see what useful goal would be served by trying to change your opinions". We NPs like to play with possibilities for no reason at all. NJs usually don't care if there's no purpose. The cognitive functions explains why your INTP is less orderly or task-oriented than an INTJ. I mean like... yeah computers are "task-oriented" because they do things. But my joke is that INTPs are computers because they're non-stop processing information.

I'm an ENFP. That means my primary function is Extroverted Intuition and my secondary function is Introverted Feeling. I'm all about possibilities. But since I'm not an ENTP, my thoughts aren't backed so strongly by logic, but rather by world of deep inner feelings and emotions. It doesn't mean I can't use logic, but it's not my preference. This is why I hold a stronger preference towards "continental philosophy" (like existentialism) over "analytical philosophy" (where formal logic is central). I emotionally relate (Introverted Feeling!) to existential thought. On the flip side, your INTP or ENTP will much prefer analytical philosophy because it makes sense (Introverted Thinking!) to them.

[Sammy Boy]

From memory I'm INTJ.

[junomoule]

Had to rub my eyes and do a double take there- people are talking about cognitive functions sensibly on a forum that's not tied directly to personality typing, and that's rare! It's always a fun subject to wade into, because human personality is so complex and beautiful. I don't think any typology system will ever totally capture the complexity of what God's woven, but it sure is a good time to learn about people.

For what it's worth, I am a solid INFJ [dominant introverted intuiting and auxillary extroverted feeling ftw] though I can test anywhere within the NF spectrum and have at varying points of time. As far as the enneagram goes, I'm a little less clear- fighting with myself as to whether my motivations are closer to that of a nine or that of a two. Common battle, really.

Everyone starts somewhere, so if we've got any curious lurkers who are interested in the subject... Tests are no substitution for personal study and analysis, but the best tests I've come across for the MBTI typology and enneagram are as follows:
Similar Minds for the enneagram.
K2C for MBTI [cognitive functions included].

Does anyone else here go through the guilty pleasure of trying to type characters from anime, manga, or videogames? C'mon folks, speak out! I know I can't be alone in this one!

[Xeno]

Found an enneagram test, I'm a 5w6, though wing 4 is also pretty well developed. Going on tritypes I'm a 513 (The Technical Expert), though I was pretty close to being a 514 (The Researcher) too.

[Tereya]

Does anyone else here go through the guilty pleasure of trying to type characters from anime, manga, or videogames? C'mon folks, speak out! I know I can't be alone in this one!

Oh my gosh, all the time. With characters from everything. I just think it's fun to add that extra dimension to the characters, and it can sometimes make you think about their motivations or why they operate the way they do from a different perspective, which is always interesting.

As far as the enneagram goes, I'm a little less clear- fighting with myself as to whether my motivations are closer to that of a nine or that of a two. Common battle, really.

If I may ask, would you mind elaborating? If it's not something you want to go into any depth on, that's perfectly alright. I'm just curious, so I thought I'd ask.

[junomoule]

Sure thing, Tereya! I'm always happy to talk over personality theories. As far as typing characters goes, perhaps we should make a thread for it? Y'never know, it might catch on. Ahem. Anyways, on to that elaboration you asked about.

Both the two and the nine are focused on assisting others, their core motivations and sense of value are met by the way of lending aid; the two to love and be loved, and the nine to live and let live - these two philosophies look very similar.

It's my understanding that the core difference is that the two is more proactive or aggressive in their desire to assist than the nine; the nine waits for someone to come to them for help, and the two seeks out someone to help.

Given that I do bellyache over my identity and am as mutable as I am, it's more likely that I am a nine than a two... and because I stress to "flight" [6] much more than "fight" [8]. I can become very motivated and passionate in my desire to help someone, however, and it's my understanding that willingness to adopt the welfare of others as a commitment is closer to the motivation of a two.

That is the seat of my personal confusion, and it's probably bundled up in my tri-type or something. Thoughts?

[Tereya]

Sure thing, Tereya! I'm always happy to talk over personality theories. As far as typing characters goes, perhaps we should make a thread for it? Y'never know, it might catch on. Ahem.

That would be super awesome, but I fear we two would be the only ones utilizing it at this point. Unless another interested party happens to speak up. In any case, I'm always more than happy to compare notes, so feel free to PM me if you like.

Anyways, on to that elaboration you asked about.

Both the two and the nine are focused on assisting others, their core motivations and sense of value are met by the way of lending aid; the two to love and be loved, and the nine to live and let live - these two philosophies look very similar.

Not necessarily, although I can definitely see how it could be perceived in that way. The Two gains a sense of self and value through being helpful and necessary to others. They define themselves through being needed, and hope that by being helpful they will get their own needs met in return. They give to get, so to speak. Whereas the Nine, while they can be and often are extremely helpful people, their desire to be of assistance comes from their tendency to merge their own sense of self with that of others. Because their core motivation is to protect their sense of inner peace, their own perceptions of themselves tend to be quite nebulous and undefined since in expressing their own needs, wants, likes or dislikes, they might run the risk of being emotionally separated from those they love. So it's often easier for them to recognize the needs of a stronger personality than it is for them to recognize and address their own needs, if that makes sense.

So basically, the Two has an image of themselves that they are striving to protect or maintain by being needed by others, whereas the Nine is just going with another's flow.

It's my understanding that the core difference is that the two is more proactive or aggressive in their desire to assist than the nine; the nine waits for someone to come to them for help, and the two seeks out someone to help.

This is very true, and this is also sort of an easy-ish way to tell the two apart. (From the outside, at least. I understand it's sometimes more difficult having to examine yourself and your own motivations.) Twos tend to be much more reactive to the perceived needs of others in the environment and will often take the initiative in responding to those needs. Nines will generally be more inert in this respect and wait for the other person to approach them and make their needs known first.

Given that I do bellyache over my identity and am as mutable as I am, it's more likely that I am a nine than a two... and because I stress to "flight" [6] much more than "fight" [8]. I can become very motivated and passionate in my desire to help someone, however, and it's my understanding that willingness to adopt the welfare of others as a commitment is closer to the motivation of a two.

That is the seat of my personal confusion, and it's probably bundled up in my tri-type or something. Thoughts?

Ahaha! This was actually one of the things I was going to suggest to begin with, is examining where you go in stress. For what it's worth, you seem more Nine-ish to me personally, but take that with a grain of salt. You're the only person who can know that for sure. Another thing to consider is how the auxillary Fe plays into your personality as well. Given that INFJs are primarily big picture people, and then are driven to act on that by relating with others, we tend to have very strong feelings about making the world better for others in general.

It's also entirely likely that you may have Two in your tritype, which can add to the confusion. I flipflopped back and forth between Five and Four for the longest because of that, but I finally came to the conclusion that the core motivation for Five tends to drive my thoughts and behavior far more than Four does. If you haven't already, you may want to try narrowing down your tritype, and then seeing what you may be able to glean from that.

Another thing that may help (again, if you haven't tried this already), is looking at what wing you may have. This may or may not work if you have a One wing with whichever type you end up being, but if you're a 9w8 or a 2w3, that may narrow it down a bit further.


Anyways, GAH! Sorry for the massive wall of text. But let me know if any of that helps. Or if you just have further thoughts in general.

[junomoule]

You really do enjoy this, don't you? Haha, can tell by the knowledge and heart with which you speak- it makes you an informed and enjoyable conversation partner! Consider your offer on that PM accepted, I think perhaps that geeking out in tandem is something we can excel at. Of course, you're welcome to approach me any time you'd like as well. The metaphorical door is always open.

You make a very good point about the perception and reality of the two and the nine, there- it was an error, since as you've described the ends [helping out] do not inherently justify the means. The way how you describe the differences between the two are reminiscent of the two resembling an active protester and the nine a wise guru archetype. Help the masses versus help the individual. Glittering generalities abound on my part, but it seems like an okay foothold to distinguish the two types.

Funny thing is I've been passively researching this stuff over the last several years, you're the first I've discussed it with outright beyond the basic. Seems I keep coming back to where I started, if that's not a symptom of the typical nine I don't know what is! I am unsurprisingly indecisive on the wing, and can't say if that's due to some level of balance or just ignorance of myself. Going to have to mull over the overall implications before I settle on anything, charming and eclectic as folks accuse my nature to be I'd be more inclined to guess at 9w1 but I have to read up on it all over again to be sure.

S'nice to be confident in INFJ at last, heh. I must say, life experience is a helpful tool in determining personality and motivation.

On a somewhat but not really unrelated note, does it make you want to flip tables when folks peg introverts as shy and extroverts as outgoing?

[Tereya]

You really do enjoy this, don't you? Haha, can tell by the knowledge and heart with which you speak- it makes you an informed and enjoyable conversation partner! Consider your offer on that PM accepted, I think perhaps that geeking out in tandem is something we can excel at. Of course, you're welcome to approach me any time you'd like as well. The metaphorical door is always open.

Hahaha, sorry. I am a huge nerd. This is something that I am really passionate about, though. I find it endlessly fascinating. And it's unusual that I get the chance to talk it over with someone else who gets it, so my inner geek tends to run away with me when that happens. However I will definitely take you up on that PM, if you don't mind.

You make a very good point about the perception and reality of the two and the nine, there- it was an error, since as you've described the ends [helping out] do not inherently justify the means. The way how you describe the differences between the two are reminiscent of the two resembling an active protester and the nine a wise guru archetype. Help the masses versus help the individual. Glittering generalities abound on my part, but it seems like an okay foothold to distinguish the two types.

Funny thing is I've been passively researching this stuff over the last several years, you're the first I've discussed it with outright beyond the basic. Seems I keep coming back to where I started, if that's not a symptom of the typical nine I don't know what is! I am unsurprisingly indecisive on the wing, and can't say if that's due to some level of balance or just ignorance of myself. Going to have to mull over the overall implications before I settle on anything, charming and eclectic as folks accuse my nature to be I'd be more inclined to guess at 9w1 but I have to read up on it all over again to be sure.

S'nice to be confident in INFJ at last, heh. I must say, life experience is a helpful tool in determining personality and motivation.

That's a very apt metaphor, actually. And if you should ever need someone to act as a sounding board, again feel free. Sometimes we're able to make more sense of ourselves via dialogue, rather than just going round and round in our own minds. Even if it is just with practical strangers on the internet.

On a somewhat but not really unrelated note, does it make you want to flip tables when folks peg introverts as shy and extroverts as outgoing?

Hahaha! Not so much, anymore. I've come to the point where I halfway expect it whenever it gets brought up, and I try to gently correct it if the situation allows for it. What tends to work my nerves more than anything is the the stereotypes and black-and-white thinking that crops up from time to time. I hate the idea that a person of any given type in their personality system of choice, can only express that type in one way, and if they don't fit the stereotype, they must be wrong about themselves. I mean, in all fairness generalities can be useful when one is first learning about a system, but there comes a point where it seems that some are striving to fit an individual into their own preprepared set of criteria, rather than adjusting their viewpoint to accommodate the individual.

[Yamamaya]

So out of curiosity, which personality type do you all find the hardest/easiest to get a long with?

I'm an INFJ and my girlfriend is an ISFJ and I find we get along very well. We both have a fairly firm understanding of each other and we are both sensitive to the others' feelings and needs. The only point of conflict ,as far as MBTI goes, is that she tends to think in a more concrete manner and I'm more of a "dreamer."

However, I find ISTJs hard to get along with. Mainly because I tend to find them judgmental and unbending. I also find their strict adherence to rules to be..unsettling. But that's just me.

[shooraijin]

Being an INTJ, I just build friends in my workshop, and that works out well.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

As opposite as ISTJs are to me (ENFP), the weird thing is that we share the same four cognitive functions — just in the opposite order.

An ENFP is:
Extroverted Intuition (Ne)
Introverted Feeling (Fi)i
Extroverted Thinking (Te)
Introverted Sensing (Si)

An ISTJ is:
Introverted Sensing (Si)
Extroverted Thinking (Te)
Introverted Feeling (Fi)
Extroverted Intuition (Ne)

So believe it or not I can relate to ISTJs when it comes to Extroverted Thinking and Introverted Feeling circumstances. They just don't have as dominant of an understanding of extroverted intuition as I do, but they still use it time to time.

The real challenge that people usually have are when they meet people where the MBTI types are identical except for the last letter. The P/J difference essentially reverses the introversion/extroversion functions of a person to the point of absolutely no commonality. I'll use ENFP (myself) and ENFJ as an example.

Again the ENFP is the following:
Extroverted Intuition (Ne)
Introverted Feeling (Fi)i
Extroverted Thinking (Te)
Introverted Sensing (Si)

However an ENFJ is as follows:
Extroverted Feeling (Fe)
Introverted Intuition (Ne)
Extroverted Sensing (Se)
Introverted Thinking (Ti)

As you can see there are absolutely *no* commonalities between us. At the very least the ENFP and INFJ (Ni, Fe, Ti, Se) both relate with dominant intuition functions, so they tend to relate better to each other than an ENFP and an ENFJ does. This is why when my ENFJ friend and I talk we have to explain in detail and effectively communicate with each other to come to a mutual understanding of things. When I communicate with my INFJ friend we don't have to say much. And when I am with my INFP or ENFP friend we can communicate the same amount of information but with *far* less words. It's like our minds meld together because we're always naturally on the same page.

So while I may naturally graviate and be attracted to ENFJs or INFJs (Example: most woman I have either dated or been interested in were NFJs) compared to ISTJs, in theory I would get along better with ISTJs. Even though I might perceive them to be dull or uninteresting, I come to a mutual cognitive understanding with them far easily than I would with an ENFJ.

[Furen]

So out of curiosity, which personality type do you all find the hardest/easiest to get a long with?

That's a difficult question, but I think that's because the people I don't get along with wouldn't take a test, where as I would. It's difficult to gague, but that's interesting, I'd love to know which type I don't tend to enjoy.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

So out of curiosity, which personality type do you all find the hardest/easiest to get a long with?

That's a difficult question, but I think that's because the people I don't get along with wouldn't take a test, where as I would. It's difficult to gague, but that's interesting, I'd love to know which type I don't tend to enjoy.

Probably ENFPs.

[drill]

I just took this test and got ISTP, I would say that out of all the combinations, i would not like ENFJ, but really i would say that the person's values play more of a factor of whether or not I got along with them than their brigg's personality rating. I would have to say that I would probably get along with ENTPs the best out of any of the combinations.

[Makachop^^128]

I love both ENFJs and ENTPs :) I think from past experience I get the least along with ISFPs but I seem to attract them a lot... oh and ESTJs but everyone is different, even with Myers brigg you can't pin down someone.

[Furen]

I just took this test and got ISTP, I would say that out of all the combinations, i would not like ENFJ, but really i would say that the person's values play more of a factor of whether or not I got along with them than their brigg's personality rating. I would have to say that I would probably get along with ENTPs the best out of any of the combinations.

we're the same type
I agree with the values comment, I don't think having people in a set "type" changes who they are as a person, but hey, I've had to learn to like a few crazy people, and it's usually worked after the effort is put in.