Looking for a bit of feedback on an idea - Skies of Aer

[Destroyer2000]

I've been toying with a steampunkish novel idea for a while, but it just solidified yesterday with me. Partially inspired by an RP we have running here, as well...let me know what you think of the idea.

The world of Aer; full of flight and fight, wander and wonder. The Ocean is known by a hundred different names throughout the world. Dominating the greater part of the world, the Ocean is the dominate feature of the planet. The world is dotted with thousands of islands, the largest being the country of Osprey. The other countries are actually conglomerates of the islands, groups that band together for political power or protection. In the midst of an industrial revolution, steam is the new source of energy, and gears and cogs dominate the imaginations of the populace. However, some still stick to the old ways of doing things, sailing wooden ships through the sea and air.
Van Hartmor, a young man of 23, is a pirate. Or more specifically, a rogue-ish thief who has landed the heist of a lifetime: a ship. And he doesn’t know how to fly it.

[Darth_Kirby]

I like the general concept, but how could he heist the ship if he doesn't know how to sail it?

[Destroyer2000]

Theifs don't always think ahead - he knows the basics, but do much with it. Like I said, I'm still working out the details...haha

[Darth_Kirby]

lol well, that's still an idea in progress for sure. Just a tip to add richness to your story. Consider the type of weather your world will have (considering it's pretty much a water world, even more than ours). Also consider any disagreements between groups, countries, ethnicities, etc. Though I think you already established some good details about islands joining forces for defense and power.

[Destroyer2000]

Yeah; I definitely will, thanks. What I posted isn't even a synopsis, so mcuh as it is a placeholder so I dont' forget my memories. I have a useful tool called yWriter, very good for world building. I plan to really put it to use here.

[Nami]

Sounds funny. With a lot of filling it would be an interesting book. As far as I can see, there isn't much of a quest. Why is this ship the one he has taken? Who did it belong to? Also, if you think hard about it, you could turn it into a series of books and not just one. What with the AMAZING potential to have such a larger outline and with political conflicts waiting around every corner, and with the clearly hostile natives on islands, I'd say you could have an amazing set of books if you work hard and scratch at every detail. ^_^

[Destroyer2000]

Sounds funny. With a lot of filling it would be an interesting book. As far as I can see, there isn't much of a quest. Why is this ship the one he has taken? Who did it belong to? Also, if you think hard about it, you could turn it into a series of books and not just one. What with the AMAZING potential to have such a larger outline and with political conflicts waiting around every corner, and with the clearly hostile natives on islands, I'd say you could have an amazing set of books if you work hard and scratch at every detail. ^_^

You know, I hadn't thought about it that far in detail - I'm currently working on a science fiction novel, and a fantasy novella/novel (not sure where it's going), and the going is slow. I got this idea, and I'm really excited for it. Turning it into a series of books, with a lot of characterization and such would be amazing. I might just do that...thank you! I should come here for advice more often. I'm trying to get some of my other works published to earn so more money, so this is great to work on in the meantime.

[Darth_Kirby]

You know, I hadn't thought about it that far in detail - I'm currently working on a science fiction novel, and a fantasy novella/novel (not sure where it's going), and the going is slow. I got this idea, and I'm really excited for it. Turning it into a series of books, with a lot of characterization and such would be amazing. I might just do that...thank you! I should come here for advice more often. I'm trying to get some of my other works published to earn so more money, so this is great to work on in the meantime.

lol slow down, boy. How long have you been working at this sci-fi story? You might not want to give up on it yet. But if you think that you're able to write this new story better than your sci-fi one, you might want to consider the switch.

I agree with Nami though. It has the pontential to be a very deep story if you plan it right.

[Destroyer2000]

Nah, I won't give up on my sci-fi one, by any means. It's been my baby of the past four or five years, and I've rewritten and dreamed of the characters more times than I can count. It's just ground to a halt at the moment, so I might need a fresh take.

[FllMtl Novelist]

I've been toying with a steampunkish novel idea for a while, but it just solidified yesterday with me. Partially inspired by an RP we have running here, as well...let me know what you think of the idea.

The world of Aer]
First of all, I love this world. The islands banding together for power and security is intriguing. The new technology could make for some interesting conflicts. And a rogue-ish thief is often a very likeable character.

But like Nami said, I don't see a quest here. Now that this character has a ship, what's he going to do? You can't make a book just out of him learning how to fly the ship. Perhaps the story is planning the heist, rather than what comes after? Or, he needs this ship for something else?

And... do people fly the ships, or sail them? The oceans made me expect sailing ships, but then you mentioned your character flying a ship.

All in all, I think this could become something really cool.

Nah, I won't give up on my sci-fi one, by any means. It's been my baby of the past four or five years, and I've rewritten and dreamed of the characters more times than I can count. It's just ground to a halt at the moment, so I might need a fresh take.

Add ninjas.

[Destroyer2000]

Haha, that's the thing - they are both naval and air ships. Many choose to sail, while others choose to fly. The ships are not limited to sea alone, though I haven't quite figured out how to explain the flight yet.

The quest...well, I haven't thought of that ll the way through. Maybe a quest for treasure? That is quite cliched, though. I might take the idea of the privateers, like existed during the 1700s - pirates working for certain nations.

[Esoteric]

This is a very basic idea. At this point it could either be a great story or one chock-full of cliche. To paraphrase the Writing Excuses people, develop this idea until you've got something you think is unique. But it really won't be so add something else that seems inventive. Now you story is unique...maybe. Tweak it some more even, add something totally different. By about the 4th or 5th tweak, you'll probably have an idea that's truly 'unique' enough to be worth trying to write/sell.

The other side of the coin in writing skill. The best idea in the world won't sell if your writing is amateur or blah, so don't neglect developing your prose. A competent fiction writer can make just about any story idea fun to read because they've learned how to tell a story. Just some things to keep in mind.

Good luck to you.

[ABlipinTime]

Ooo. I like steam punk. No fan of stealing.
Oceanic theme, eh matey?
There be things that come to mind...

... 1) Boat with a blimp on top of it, e.g.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UPIT3Xnwzv4/TGi8T1Az_iI/AAAAAAAAAIg/Pu9KEOj_sEc/s1600/Boat+Blimp.png
(also, check out the steampunk racers: http://olosothogomo.blogspot.com/2010/08/new-age-steam-punk-racers.html
)

... 2) Boat with wings
(horrible example: http://www.ferdthenerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/flying-gondola.jpg)

... 3) Dragon boat!!

[Nami]

You know, I hadn't thought about it that far in detail - I'm currently working on a science fiction novel, and a fantasy novella/novel (not sure where it's going), and the going is slow. I got this idea, and I'm really excited for it. Turning it into a series of books, with a lot of characterization and such would be amazing. I might just do that...thank you! I should come here for advice more often. I'm trying to get some of my other works published to earn so more money, so this is great to work on in the meantime.

That's good, keep working on it. In my experience its nice to work on many different stories so if you get stuck on one, you can work on the others. ^_^ That's what I do, and it works out nicely. And you're welcome. ^_^ I like helping and I'm glad my advice seemed helpful. I'm excited for this book(s) now, so if you ever need help I'd be happy to give more advice. ^_^ I understand trying to get published, I'm working hard on a novel now. ^^ It's difficult, but that's what I love about it! Best of luck to you Friend~

[Destroyer2000]

Here's how it currently stands: I'm having a bit of trouble with the main character. At this point, he is too shallow. I wasn't going to give him a tragic background or anything of the sort as it seems cliché (again, avoiding it as much as possible), but I can't think of how to work it.

Having a merchant family with a decent amount of money, there'd be no reason for the character to start thieving. So it doesn't fit; he's just not a believable character right now, and that won't do. So here's my proposition, and any advice anyone has will be appreciated:

The main character is eight or nine years of age when his parents decide on to arrange a marriage for him. He says no, but as he is a child, there's not much of a choice. So he does a very childish thing, and runs away from home. When he returns later, he finds his village burned to the ground, with few survivors, and his parents are not among them. Some of the other villagers offer to take him in, but he runs away again, and starts stealing to survive. His only goal at this point is to find those who burned his village, and the only clues he has are what the villagers have told him they saw.

That puts him back at the start of the story, with the opportunity to steal a ship. He can still be a rogueish, overconfident young man. Now he just has a bit more backstory, with a more believable reason for stealing. However, is that too cliché? Thanks

[Nami]

Hrrrm, that is really cliche I'm afraid. >>;

Now, you should know that characters can have depth without tragic backgrounds. It really just depends on them. However, a shallow character at the beginning can become less so during the story. Such as his adventures and experiences change him. This, may sound cliche, but LIFE sometimes is cliche. People can be changed through their experiences and the people they meet. Also, regardless of the cliche situation a story doesn't have to be the same as another.

In the end, its your story so you must make the decision. But here's how I would do it, he would be an orphan (to me, this isn't tragic, tragic is; he lost his whole family) Or he could have been the son of a gypsy. And instead of staying with the caravan went off to seek his own fortune! And found it was much harder than expected and began picking pockets. He could grow in his elegance through the money he earns, or stay a dirty street-rat and when he sees the opportunity, steals the ship, thinking it will help him. Now, quests ALWAYS help develop characters.

I'd say setting a quest for him, before developing him too much would be good, then you can firm his personality like this; is he unwilling to take the quest? But forced to do so? Does he care if he has to take it? He takes the quest grudgingly or sees it as a chance to gain more riches and his reasons are entirely selfish? Or does he see a good reason and stands for it?

A lot of questions should be asked. ^_^ And creating a cast of characters to play roles with him isn't a bad start either. ^_^

[Destroyer2000]

[quote="Nami (post: 1486598)"]Hrrrm, that is really cliche I'm afraid. >>]

Thanks, a lot. Thinking back, that is cliché...I rarely have trouble writing characters, but this one refuses to play out as I plan.

I have a few characters already that play certain roles, and I'm building up the cast. I suppose I should build the rest of the world, and have the setting that everything will take place in firmly established. That'll smooth things over a bit...

[Nami]

Indeed! ^_^ I look forward to seeing what you come up with. :3

Aja Aja Fighting!

[Destroyer2000]

Thanks! I'll just use this thread for my purposes of building it up. I'll post again once I've gotten some more ideas.

[Kerusso]

Ya know, if you do keep the arranged marriage in his backstory, I'd like to see the girl he was supposed marry come into play somehow, like as a love interest, or as a jealous antagonist to another love interest. Just something to think about.

[Darth_Kirby]

Ya know, if you do keep the arranged marriage in his backstory, I'd like to see the girl he was supposed marry come into play somehow, like as a love interest, or as a jealous antagonist to another love interest. Just something to think about.

This = win. lolz XD At least in my opinion. But make sure that your story is your own no matter what.

Though I also might add that if he's going to steal a ship he should probably at least have some prior experience working on a ship. Otherwise it'd make no sense that he, being a complete noob at sailing, would even know the basics of getting a ship out of port or wherever the ship is located.

[Destroyer2000]

[quote="Darth_Kirby (post: 1488313)"]This = win. lolz XD At least in my opinion. But make sure that your story is your own no matter what. ]

Actually, I'd thought of that a while back. I'm not going to say either way about the girl, but she will play a part in the story. As for knowing basic sailing...the entire world is based around ships of different sorts. It would be a bit like cars, today; even if you had never driven one, chances are, you know atleast a vague idea of how.

[Destroyer2000]

Remember, this is the first draft. There will be mistakes. But, hopefully, not so bad that the first time through it won't be enjoyable. I'll be posting my progress here for all of you to read. Feedback is appreciated.

[SIZE="3"]Skies of Aer[/SIZE]
Chapter 1
The streets of Syd lay quiet, the morning fog not yet swept out to sea. The few people awake at that hour milled about, opening bakeries and shops, preparing for the influx of workers. The castle towered into the sky, a monolithic giant of stone lost among the fog. Set close to the ocean, the city had sprung up around the castle hundreds of years before, the residents flocking to it in the event of an attack.

Years later, with the discovery of steam power, the city blossomed into a technological superpower. No one foresaw the pollution that resulted from the industrial expansion. Now, the factories belched smoke into the air already grimy from the previous days’ work. The rhythm of gears and cogs echoed through the air as a carriage rolled through the streets, steam spewing from the top.

In the southern district of the city, near the homes of the rich nobility, Donovan Hartmoor stood in the shadows of a manor wall, using the mist to hide as servants came and went. As the door of the manor opened to allow a servant through, Van slipped in, nearly invisible through the early morning fog.Steam rose from the walls as the gates closed behind them, their engines nearly silent as they worked. Seeing this, Van let out a low whistle, loosening the grip of his sash a bit. If a manor was this well built, then it surely had excellent guards, and he hadn't made it this far by being stupid.

He stepped back into the shadow of the wall, glancing at the chronometer on his wrist. If I take too much longer, he thought, the fog will clear out. Better hurry. Van spared a glance towards the door the servant had disappeared into, and decided it would be easier to go around the house. I could have dressed as a servant, but where's the fun in that? If I'm going to rob a noble blind, best to do it in style! Especially one as pompous as that seaslug Edwards.

Brant Edwards, referred to as seaslug in most circles, was a rich peasant who had risen into the ranks of nobility through dubious means. Some hated him, most despised him, and a few would have gladly speared him with a rusty stake. Van intended to hit him in a place that would hurt much more than that, for if there was one thing Brant Edwards valued over anything else, it was his money.

Van reached the corner of the manor and began the climb up the siding. His nimble fingers easily found purchase, honed from years of practice on the street. Halfway up, he ran out of siding, and swung himself sideways onto a windowsill. As Van peered through the glass, the servants finished up in the room and left, gently pulling the door closed behind them. Good. Looks like it's unoccupied.

He pushed the window open, silently thanking the manor's head of cleaning for having well-oiled hinges. The silence outside was broken by the clop of horses approaching the main gate, and Van turned curiously to look. An old-style carriage approached, one made of wood instead of the usual steel, and was adorned with gold embossing on the doors. And wood and gold meant money.

Money that was, at that moment, in the manor. Van grinned, looked around the room, and swiped a bauble from the table before easing through the doorway and into the hall.The hallway was quiet, its many doors closed. He sighed, figuring the house was empty of most servants, and it would be an easy job. As he straightened and walked around the corner, Van ran headlong into one of the serving girls. Even as she stumbled back and drew breath to scream, Van grabbed and dipped her as if they were dancing, flashing his best smile at her before putting a finger on the lips. "Shh. Don't scream, alright?" He thought the girl couldn't have looked more surprised if a group of aermaids had appeared, offering to take her to their city in the sky.

The girl went to jelly in his arms, and he sighed. I don't know what it is about me that causes women to faint in my arms. He grinned. Must be the stunning good looks. Van lifted the girl and put her inside one of the bedrooms, hiding her from view, and frowned. If someone finds her and thinks she is sleeping on the job, she could get in some trouble. He pulled the bauble out of his pocket and looked around, before drawing his knife and shredding some of the sheets on the bed, making a gag and tying her hands behind her back. Looking at his work, Van nudged the bauble under the edge of the bed with his toe. There. Now, it'll look as if she walked in on a robbery in progress, but was unable to escape. That should keep her out of most trouble, and if it looks like the bauble was saved, maybe even a reward. The girl moaned and started to shift positions. She's coming around. Time to go.

Out in the hallway, Van sighed. The bruises marring the girls' face hadn't escaped his notice. Nobles like Edwards usually paid little attention to the servants unless something wasn't to their liking, and left all authority over the house to the majordomo. The majordomo typically administered punishment through blows rather than proper discipline. Atleast there had been no signs of other abuse on the girl.

A flash of anger burned in his eyes for a moment as Van remembered the other rumors he had heard concerning Edwards, rumors of child slavery, and brothels. Van had spent part of his life on the streets; he knew the dark side of the world. He had seen the women, abused and beaten. He had seen the men who beat them. He had seen the children begging in alleyways, just skin hanging over bones, and he had noticed when those children vanished without a trace, even if no one else had.

Van shook his head to banish the feeling. It did not good to think about that sort of thing. If I find out Edwards is behind some of that...then by the Lady, he will lose more than his purse.

[Nami]

OO! I already like this! But that was a given. Haha.

I really like the way you enter into the whole scene and set Donovan up for a good entrance. Helping you ease into his character, it's nice. It gives you the ability to see he is a thief before he even enters the manor. ^_^ Good work! As I knew it would be.

[acgifford]

Wow...Very very nice Destroyer!:D I liked that very much! You build a world beautifully!

[Kerusso]

While I like the idea of a thief hero, you may wish to consider this:
http://limyaael.livejournal.com/261731.html before going on.

[Destroyer2000]

Whether one person likes the idea or not, it hardly makes a difference. You said you liked the idea, so do others. And the author of that journal is spewing stereotypes left and right; I am quite pleased with the idea. It is a fantasy element used quite often, but it is MINE, as well as my own world. I've read stories with theives that I thought were quite good, and I hardly thing one person's live journal entry will deter me from following through on my own, unique story. I stole no ideas from anyone. Nor, as the journal puts it, am I a bad writer.

Thank you for the concern, though.

[acgifford]

I agree with Destroyer here. Its all in what you like. Putting one idea or type of character does not make you a bad writer. The very act of calling someone a bad writer just because of the type of character he puts in his book, is what i would call shallow. When one critiques a writer he must look at the whole picture. Proper critiquing should be done without bias. In my opinion, if you don't like the type of character and you mention it in your critique, you are not critquing properly. I mean no disrespect to anyone who dislikes the character type of a thief. I am just saying that when giving an opinion on someone's writing, you should look at the whole picture and not focus on a minor thing such as his character type. I feel as long as it is well written, that the character type should not be brought up.

[Esoteric]

Whether one person likes the idea or not, it hardly makes a difference. You said you liked the idea, so do others. And the author of that journal is spewing stereotypes left and right; I am quite pleased with the idea. It is a fantasy element used quite often, but it is MINE, as well as my own world. I've read stories with theives that I thought were quite good, and I hardly thing one person's live journal entry will deter me from following through on my own, unique story. I stole no ideas from anyone. Nor, as the journal puts it, am I a bad writer.

Easy now, Kerusso was just trying to help, and while not a lot of things in that Blog rant apply to your character, a couple things do.

I could have dressed as a servant, but where's the fun in that? If I'm going to rob a noble blind, best to do it in style!

Since when is thievery--real thievery--about fun? If he were some bored aristocrat who got a thrill from kleptomania, okay, but if he's from the street then theft is about survival and in this case, possibly revenge. He should be doing everything he can to assure success, not take chances for the fun of it.

He sighed, figuring the house was empty of most servants, and it would be an easy job. As he straightened and walked around the corner, Van ran headlong into one of the serving girls. Even as she stumbled back and drew breath to scream, Van grabbed and dipped her as if they were dancing, flashing his best smile at her before putting a finger on the lips.

Again, would a honed master thief make such blatant assumptions and just march around a corner? He isn't taking his mission seriously. It doesn't feel like he's even trying. Also he shows no fear whatsoever of getting caught and punished by Edwards. That makes him seem either stupid or cocky beyond belief.

The girl went to jelly in his arms, and he sighed. I don't know what it is about me that causes women to faint in my arms. He grinned. Must be the stunning good looks.

At this point a lot of people are going to roll their eyes and say, "is this guy for REAL?" He's not a thief, he's Cassanova and it doesn't fit with someone who's experienced the 'dark side of the world'. If he isn't serious, most paying readers won't be either, unless it's intended to be a comedy.

btw, Van sighs. A lot.

I don't mean to sound harsh, I'm just trying to be honest, so I'm sorry if I've offended you. You're not a bad writer and there's some good potential here if you make Van seem a little less 'larger than life'. Just keep in mind there's always room for improvement and it's always most difficult to spot the problems in our own writing. Trust me, I've written some doozies myself.

[Nami]

XD I think you all are being a little harsh. Though some of your words are true. It's actually all about his character. Sure there is room for improvement, but isn't that the case with everything? Keeping in mind that this IS HIS FIRST DRAFT. Just, remember that first drafts get edited A LOT.

I like Van's cocky and fearless attitude. He is assured that if he gets caught, he will get away. He doesn't fear the people he robs, as no thief should. And I see Destroyer going against the usual "I'm dark, sneaky and evil." Stereotype that goes with thieves and rogues. I mean, look at Flynn from Tangled! Totally cocky, and pretty fearless.

So why not? I mean, isn't writing about making your own life? World? Having the ability to create something beautiful? And breaking stereotypes is the HEIGHT of awesome. ^_^ I know you all are just trying to help, and those are your opinions, so here are mine.

Besides, Van is also caring, though a ladies man of sorts, he is kind and is thinking about people he doesn't even know (kids, poor people etc.) He hates these people, thus, he doesn't fear them. Looking beyond the outer-layer of a character is part of the process, if you can't see the deep inner-seed then you'll have a hard time with people too, much less fiction. ^^

BTW, sighs are common and happen a lot~ ^_~