The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks.

[Fantasy Dreamer]

Hmm, some of you sound really, really serious. XD Nate, good points, but its kinda like watching and episode of something like Sailor Moon or DBZ... but they do add twists to it. TP and Wind Waker were awesome, though, due to the twists, so I completely see what you're saying and I agree. But, I liked Phantom Hourglass (save for that blasted temple) and I'd like to give this one a try... but I have to admit, a train seems a little... odd. But at least its not more sailing?

[Robin Firedrake]

You get to pull the "whoo whoo!" whistle and shoot a cannon

[Song_of_Storms]

[SIZE="1"]This stinks. DX There can't be trains in the Zelda universe... what next? Link Pilot? Link Lawyer?

Yes, the LoZ series is charmingly repetitive. That's why we like it. Changing something for the sake of it is ridicules. [/SIZE]

[Dante]

If I made a Zelda game... I might actually slightly modernize it... just for some twists...

I'd probobly do the following.
1. I would make Ganadorf Links childhood friend (making him look less evil so the player can relate). (You can even play Gannon in some levels)
2. Let's put a spin on it... and have Link try to save Gannon from the evil despot Princess Zelda... Who rules Hyrule with an iron fist that Temmy would be proud of.
3. I would abolish Link's Green tunic. (No wonder Zelda hates him in all the other games... I thought it was cool when I was ten but now... O_O WHY LINK!)
4. I would stage it in a napolionic/steampunk era to give the game a new flavor (perhaps adding a sidequest subplot of nature VS technology that Japan does so well. (After all, it allows swords still, but gives the game a different flavor and adds more potential effects to please the eye while trying to figure out how to beat that unbeatable boss).
5. The characters would be designed and illustrated by Studio Ghibi or some other high quality anime studio (Because... toon link disgraces Japanese animation abilities. Sorry.)
6. The game would have puzzles that actually made sense in their context... not HERE IS A PUZZLE FOR A PUZZLES SAKE. (Maybe some hints from the RTS world would help here... like using terrain to think outside the box to get to a certain room ect).

AND SEVEN!
7. The plot would be more complicated then I can work out in a single forum post... which is generally better then much of the past content I've witnessed thus far (which seems recanned).

For an added bonus I would also use Nate's Considerations into play.

Also...

Quick thing I wanna say: You never know with a Zelda game. Ever. Kay? Kay. Besides, Link and Zelda always wear those clothes. They're iconic to the Zelda series. And to me, it really did look steampunk.

Yeah... you're too young to remeber this but... someone bleached Links hair and turned him into Adolf Hitler's dream-child somewhere along the way and.... well... Zelda was able to really kick some butt there for a while...

Somewheres along the line she became a submissive little princess with a flat existance and no reason for link to actually like her other then looks . Of course in the first Zelda games they had an excuse (lack of power in the system)... but now. No excuse. I heard the latest Zelda was a pirate though... so I guess that would be a step forward for Nintendo over Cooking Mamma.

[Fantasy Dreamer]

If I made a Zelda game... I might actually slightly modernize it... just for some twists...

I'd probobly do the following.
1. I would make Ganadorf Links childhood friend (making him look less evil so the player can relate). (You can even play Gannon in some levels)

That actually would be kind of a nice 'plot' change. However, considering Gannon is the bad guy, if he was Link's childhood friend who ended up as the bad guy, well, that is so cliche in that its been done many other places many a time before. So I think Zelda is 'original' in that it stays away from that.

Something I think would be interesting to see... Link's child/children are the hero's, and they have to face Gannon's children maybe? Something like that. The multiple Links who happened to be descendant of the last one across time who rises up whenever there is a great evil and Hyrule is in need of a hero kind of gets old. Let's start a real second generation for once...

[Dante]

However, considering Gannon is the bad guy, if he was Link's childhood friend who ended up as the bad guy, well, that is so cliche in that its been done many other places many a time before. So I think Zelda is 'original' in that it stays away from that.

thus the part 2.

I've thought about the reasoning too... I mean... Zelda is a despot with the triforce of Wisdom 'cept she's using it like the triforce of knowledge (thus the revolution into a steampunk world... she's building steam punk robots for the conquest of Catelina). Problem is, she's power hungry... and who has to be the poor sap stuck with the triforce of power. Gannon! She could care less for the triforce of courage though mind you... I mean... ITS THE TRIFORCE OF COURAGE! It gives you the power to do stupid things without first thinking it through properly . BUT THE TRIFORCE OF POWER... that thing can power ultimate weapons of doom... and every princess must have her own personal ultimate weapon of doom. Just ask Temmy!

So, in order to grab all of the power from the Triforce of Power... she must capture Gannon. Link might even live in Catelina in this game (going back to REAL old school link) which would even give a reason for Zelda trying to get the Triforce of power... maybe Catelina's power hungry to and also wants the Triforce.

[Scarecrow]

Boss fights in the new Zelda games are hideous. They follow the same pattern. Use dungeon item, attack, wait, use dungeon item, attack, wait, so on. I'm tired of getting a dungeon treasure and going "Well guess I need this to beat the boss!" Some might say "ALL ZELDA GAMES DO THAT." No, they don't. Let's take, for example, my favorite Zelda game. Link to the Past.

1. Armos Knights (dungeon treasure: Bow) - Yes, but only for the red one, the blue ones can be beaten without it.
2. Lanmolas (dungeon treasure: Power Glove) - Nope
3. Moldorm (dungeon treasure: Moon Pearl) - Nope
4. Helmasaur King (dungeon treasure: Magic Hammer) - You can use bombs to destroy his helmet too, so no
5. Arrghus (dungeon treasure: Hookshot) Yes
6. Mothula (dungeon treasure: Fire Rod) - It helps, but not necessary, so no
7. Blind (dungeon treasure: Titan Mitt) - No
8. Kholdstare (dungeon treasure: Blue Mail) - No
9. Vitreous (dungeon treasure: Cane of Somaria) - No
10. Trinexx (dungeon treasure: Mirror Shield) - No

Not including Agahnim at Hyrule Castle (there is no dungeon treasure in that level) or the rematch against him at Ganon's Tower (which the dungeon treasure is the Red Mail).

So tell me. How many bosses in that list used the dungeon item to fight the boss? TWO. Out of ten that REQUIRE the item, and a couple where it's helpful but unnecessary.

Using the dungeon item to fight the boss is lazy, lazy, LAZY game design. There is zero excuse for it, the only reason we allow Nintendo to get away with it is because it's Nintendo.

So until they can get back to unique ideas and not lazy dungeon and boss design, I have no interest in purchasing another Zelda game.

Also, I heard that temple was a load of crap in a hat.

I actually agree with you completely here. I would also like it if they rewarded you a little better on side quests rather than just a piece of a heart or something. Giving items out items that are not necessary but would be helpful defeating certain bosses and stuff would feel much more rewarding IMO. And yes LttP is a great game and I'm often torn between that and WW as my all time favorite zelda game (I happened to like sailing around and looking for treasure.. however, it felt very unrewarding because all it was was a heart piece or something. I wish solving the map puzzles were a little more challenging too). Really depends on my mood I guess.

[Nate]

Oh yeah, that's why I didn't feel like doing the sidequests in Twilight Princess. It's like, what do you get from killing all the Poes? A Silver Rupee. Wooo. Especially since I spent the last half of the game with a full wallet, that really motivates me to do that.

LttP was good about putting non-necessary, helpful items in, like the Magic Cape and the Cane of Byrna, or the Bombos spell. None are needed to beat the game, but they're useful if you can find them. Why don't the new Zelda games have things like that?

And eh. I still hate the sailing. If the map had been smaller I might have been fine with it, but it's so boring just sailing on for five minutes with nothing happening.

[Robin Firedrake]

Yeah... you're too young to remeber this but... someone bleached Links hair and turned him into Adolf Hitler's dream-child somewhere along the way and.... well... Zelda was able to really kick some butt there for a while...

Somewheres along the line she became a submissive little princess with a flat existance and no reason for link to actually like her other then looks . Of course in the first Zelda games they had an excuse (lack of power in the system)... but now. No excuse. I heard the latest Zelda was a pirate though... so I guess that would be a step forward for Nintendo over Cooking Mamma.

Please to not treat me like tiny child? I know what he and Zelda looked and acted like before. And guess what... this may come as a shock but... I actually LIKE it! Most people follow the rule of "They changed it, now it sucks." but I on the other hand, wonder of wonders, am excited about the change! I want to see where they can take the series and I also don't want this place to become a whole list of people saying "I could do better" even with examples. If you want to make examples I'll make a thread for that exact purpose.

[Whitefang]

I'm thinking we should start a Zelda discussion thread...but it's probably as divisive an issue as politics and theology.

[Nate]

Most people follow the rule of "They changed it, now it sucks." but I on the other hand, wonder of wonders, am excited about the change!

Actually I'm saying the opposite thing. XD I'm saying "Zelda games, please change! Please don't be exactly the same again!" The setting may be different but in most Zelda games you're the same guy in green saving the same princess from the same villain with the same boomerang.

I mean, I love the older Zelda games. I do! But if I want to play an old Zelda game, I'll pull out my old Zelda games and play them. I don't want to play a new Zelda game that's like the old ones.

This is why I like Majora's Mask better than Ocarina of Time. OoT was like "Yep, it's a Zelda game all right." Majora's Mask was like "WAIT THE MOON IS FALLING WHY AM I A DEKU THING WHAT IS GOING ON." Majora's Mask changed things up, it made it new and interesting. There were also some unique dungeons, like Stone Tower, that hadn't been done in the series before. It was a breath of fresh air, I loved it. Not my favorite Zelda game, but second place isn't bad.

I think however this is the wrong kind of change, the train thing I mean. I'm going to wait until more information is available before I pass judgement on this thing though. I can't really get a good idea of the game from a two minute trailer. I will say I already dislike the train thing. It looks like it's going to be too boring and time-consuming, much like Wind Waker's sailing. It looks lazy on the part of the developers, to just have flat plain grassy fields everywhere, instead of crafting an interesting overworld with unique features (like Twilight Princess and LttP did).

In other words, Zelda needs to change its basic structure, rather than just cosmetic changes. To quote a tired old line from last year's Presidential campaign, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. They can put trains and boats and whatever in Zelda but until it changes things like how boss fights go down, the puzzles, and the lack of rewarding sidequests, they'll just be forever changing the makeup on that pig.

The music is fantastic though.

[Dante]

Please to not treat me like tiny child? I know what he and Zelda looked and acted like before. And guess what... this may come as a shock but... I actually LIKE it! Most people follow the rule of "They changed it, now it sucks." but I on the other hand, wonder of wonders, am excited about the change! I want to see where they can take the series and I also don't want this place to become a whole list of people saying "I could do better" even with examples. If you want to make examples I'll make a thread for that exact purpose.

Umm.... You're not a tiny child... your not even a child. Kid yes. Child no... but then again I refer to anyone younger then me as kid. But I'm just a little surprised that you understand games from the early 90s... It's 2009, that was far before you were born and hence something that is even early in my own life (I was a really little kid when this stuff came out). I like change as well, but when these things first came out... well...

It just seemed like we had more titles to choose from and the storylines just got better with each new system... Maybe I'm just getting old, but it just seems like the amount of original game content out there is slowly decreasing with each passing year. Your generation deserves better then that.

[Radical Dreamer]

I'm thinking we should start a Zelda discussion thread...but it's probably as divisive an issue as politics and theology.

It doesn't have to be if you don't make it.

Anyways, if I somehow become rich and have money again, I'll probably pick this up. I really love playing Phantom Hourglass (the temple doesn't bother me all that much, to be honest, and they added some pretty fun innovations), so adding another game to my list of "things I can play in my DS that aren't old GBA games" is fine with me. XD

[Fantasy Dreamer]

Maybe I'm just getting old, but it just seems like the amount of original game content out there is slowly decreasing with each passing year. Your generation deserves better then that.

Yes, but as the years progress, theres less and less new material because previous generations have already done it. As for the next generation getting the short end of the stick... that's why we never throw away the older games and continue to play them, handing them down to the next generation like the classics they are.

so adding another game to my list of "things I can play in my DS that aren't old GBA games" is fine with me. XD

Amen to that one. I don't mind backwards compatibility, but when the previous systems games are all you're playing on the new system, you start to wonder if you wasted your money. XD

[Ashley]

I don't care what anyone says, I think this game looks ridiculously fun. I loved Wind Waker--one of my all-time favorite games--and if I had a DS I would have bought Phantom Hourglass in a heartbeat. But maybe I can buy this for the Wii???

[Whitefang]

But maybe I can buy this for the Wii???

Sadly, this is a DS title. I would not hold high hopes that it will be released on the Wii

In fact, I would not be surprised if the next console Zelda was another two-system deal, being released with whatever new console Nintendo is likely developing. It would likely be designed for the Wii, however, much like how TP was designed for the Cube.

There might be an announcement at E3 this year about a console Zelda...but we'll see. I wouldn't bet much on it.

[Heronwing]

In my opinion, this will be either be really awesome or really terrible.

[Scarecrow]

In my opinion, this will be either be really awesome or really terrible.

Well it's a zelda game so it's impossible for it to be really terrible... It'd be hard pressed to beat The Adventures of Link.... which isn't horrible but it certainly ranks as my least favorite Zelda game ever... (aside from what I've seen of those 3DO games but I never played those myself)

[Ashley]

Sadly, this is a DS title. I would not hold high hopes that it will be released on the Wii

Well, I meant more that I could find it in the Wii Market (I know they put games from prior Nintendo systems for sale there sometimes).

[Nate]

It'd be hard pressed to beat The Adventures of Link.... which isn't horrible but it certainly ranks as my least favorite Zelda game ever...

Zelda II was ahead of its time - pretty much the first action RPG ever, and it also came out around the time of both the original Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. It pioneered restoring one's health by taking advantage of hookers (which is apparently a big deal in modern games like Grand Theft Auto), gave Link the ability to use magic and new skills (reused in every Zelda title since then), and featured tough-as-nails difficulty (at the time) that has been sorely missed ever since.

Bottom line, Zelda II is a god amongst men.

[Midori]

It pioneered restoring one's health by taking advantage of hookers

Wow, you just ruined my childhood.

Bottom line, Zelda II is a god amongst men.

This is true though.

Also, I scoffed at the idea of a railroad zelda when I first heard about it. But then when I saw the trailer, I decided it couldn't be that bad. I am worried, however, that we'll never get to see a true Wii Zelda game. (Twilight Princess is a Gamecube game through and through.)

[Monkey J. Luffy]

Well, I thought nintendo killed itself with the Wii, and I think that Link and a Train in one game deserves words generally not allowed on this Website. So all I have to say is:

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXXXXXXCCCCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE me princess. (Capital letters were necessary.)

[Midori]

Since I found my long-lost DS recently, I'll have to pick up Phantom Hourglass and this game eventually. I wouldn't mind it as long as the boss battles don't keep being "Stun it with the dungeon item and hit its eye/rear/tongue".

[Nate]

I wouldn't mind it as long as the boss battles don't keep being "Stun it with the dungeon item and hit its eye/rear/tongue".

You'll mind it then.

[ADXC]

God forbid they actually make challenging boss fights.


I mean I love Zelda, but it is starting to get old in the gameplay. I know there's only so much you can do, but still I remember actually dieing in a Zelda game many times. I think that was in OoT, LTtP, and Majora's Mask. I need to borrow MM from my friend again, I was too lazy to continue it because it was actually challenging.

However, I still love to play new Zelda games. Although they may not really change the difficulty and challenges, it is still fun.

[Fantasy Dreamer]

Well, I thought nintendo killed itself with the Wii, and I think that Link and a Train in one game deserves words generally not allowed on this Website. So all I have to say is:

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXXXXXXCCCCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE me princess. (Capital letters were necessary.)

ROFL!

[blkmage]

Well, I thought nintendo killed itself with the Wii, and I think that Link and a Train in one game deserves words generally not allowed on this Website. So all I have to say is:

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXXXXXXCCCCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE me princess. (Capital letters were necessary.)

I'm interested in how you think Nintendo has killed itself with the Wii when it has done nothing but bring them large mounds of cash monies for them to roll around in.

As for the train, I'll have to wait for more information. As for it being bad, I don't know. Have there been any recent Zelda games that have been bad? I don't mean bad as in, it wasn't as good as my favourite Zelda or some other Zelda or unoriginal, but bad as in actually bad.

And yeah, remember back to Wind Waker. I'm pretty sure we hated the art style and thought sailing would be cool. And it turned out the art style is really nice and sailing was kinda boring.

[Bobtheduck]

No clue what the train's for, but the rest looks ok... I guess. Still not a fan of the style, but that's only because I wanted a more realistic zelda on the GC than what we got (until Twilight Princess, which was Nintendo's "goodbye machine that we hate so much, that lost us so much money" game, and their "hello money making genius of a device" game...)

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I suspect the train is just going to be a world map element like the steamboat was in the last game. Chart a course and watch it run.

[Fantasy Dreamer]

I suspect the train is just going to be a world map element like the steamboat was in the last game. Chart a course and watch it run.

Probably. And just watching the boat sail from point A to point B while shooting at random enemies that popped up so annoyingly was pretty boring. But the exploration was nice...

And yeah, remember back to Wind Waker. I'm pretty sure we hated the art style and thought sailing would be cool. And it turned out the art style is really nice and sailing was kinda boring.

This is true. I remember being like "What? That looks stupid, its going to be stupid!" and the art turned out to fit rather well for the game. And the sailing, which had promise, got old fast, especially once you had to go looking for all the triforce map charts THEN the triforce pieces. *sigh*