New Zelda?

[Taliesin]

I want that game bad. what do you think of MM?

[zelda]

omg me and my brotha can't wait to get it!

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I've found them to be much to easy, myself. Things only really seem epic to me when they are difficult. I don't think I've lost enough health to use a fairy yet. (Why Nintendo doesn't include a "Hard" difficulty setting for these games is beyond me)

I didn't mean Epic as in hard. But epic as in I felt pumped up and I was jumping up and down. (Especially the sand dungeon's boss. That is the BEST boss-battle ever)

In fact my main complaint about the game is that the dungeons and bosses are easy, but I might just be that good in zelda XD (I am a proud winner of Master Quest!) Most times in each dungeon, you hold only 1 small key at a time, and they're relatively easy to find. OOT and MM you had like 5 small keys at once and you'd always got annoyed when you came across 6 locked doors.

I died a few times, namely the final battle. (Due to me having to figure out what to do)

[Nate]

The Ice Dungeon in Link to the Past is the hardest dungeon in any Zelda game.

[Cognitive Gear]

The Ice Dungeon in Link to the Past is the hardest dungeon in any Zelda game.

QFT. Not even the Master Quest dungeons touch the Ice Dungeon from LTTP.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

The Ice Dungeon in Link to the Past is the hardest dungeon in any Zelda game.

Looks like I found myself a challenge. I mean Oracle of Ages had some really hard dungeons too.

[Nate]

Ah, just melted the ice at Zora's Domain. I have 6 1/2 hours clocked in on this game so far...though 20 minutes of that was from me trying like mad to get a chest in the Goron Mines. I never did figure out how...it's in the room where all the archers are shooting at you, and you have to shoot the rope from the magnet to lower a platform.

It appears to be on some really high wooden walkways...how to get up there, I haven't the slightest clue. :\

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Ah, just melted the ice at Zora's Domain. I have 6 1/2 hours clocked in on this game so far...though 20 minutes of that was from me trying like mad to get a chest in the Goron Mines. I never did figure out how...it's in the room where all the archers are shooting at you, and you have to shoot the rope from the magnet to lower a platform.

It appears to be on some really high wooden walkways...how to get up there, I haven't the slightest clue. :\

Check underwater? Or where the bombos is? IIRC You don't get that chest up there yet. But I don't really remember XD

[Jingo Jaden]

Hmmm, I think the desert boss was the most funny one *not gonna reveal what it was* I have finished Zelda for a long time ago

[Cognitive Gear]

Hmmm, I think the desert boss was the most funny one *not gonna reveal what it was* I have finished Zelda for a long time ago

I thought that boss was a disgrace to all Zelda Bosses before it..... It was all gimmic! To each his ow, I guess. I remember when all bosses in Zelda were difficult and didn't need gimmicks to be fun!

Why, back in my day; the golden age of gaming, we were lucky if the boss only did a whole whole heart of damage!

*grumbles about 1/4 heart damage*
*suddenly feels like a grouchy ogre*

[Myoti]

I thought the desert boss was great, as well. Granted, yes, the bosses do feel pretty easy this time around, but most of them are still fun.

I'm not so sure I understand it being a "gimmick" though. You use the item you get in the dungeon to fight him. It's pretty much always been that way in Zelda games.

[meboeck]

I just beat the game! Anyway, ever since Zelda turned 3D, I think the bosses have been easier. My favorite part with the bosses is actually the music. And I do love how epic the feel is even if the bosses aren't that dangerous. Overall, the game is great, but I did have a few qualms with it. While there were some awesome new items and awesome new versions of old items, some items weren't utilized enough. After the first dungeon you practically never use the lantern or the boomerang. And the slingshot shouldn't have even been in the game. You only use it a couple times in the very beginning. I think they only had it as a tribute to OoT. On the other hand, the items that they used well were really excellent, and I really liked the dynamic each of the items brought. I think this was certainly an amazing continuation of this series.

Now that I'm finished with this game, I need to go back and work on finishing LttP. From what I've seen if that game it seems like there were a lot of similarities between it and TP in terms of plot.

[Cognitive Gear]

I thought the desert boss was great, as well. Granted, yes, the bosses do feel pretty easy this time around, but most of them are still fun.

I'm not so sure I understand it being a "gimmick" though. You use the item you get in the dungeon to fight him. It's pretty much always been that way in Zelda games.

Well,

[spoiler= Desert Boss and Snowpeak] Yeah, you use the item you found to beat it. The first half wasn't bad at all. If it had just been that, it would have been just fine. However, I felt that the jumping from wall to wall and crashing into the boss felt like it was trying really hard to be awesome, but it just came across as gimmicky.

Although I also dislike the snowboarding. It's just not right. Link shouldn't snowboard.

The whole game really felt like it was trying really hard to come across as "cool" to western audiences. [/spoiler]

Those combined with the lack of magic; makes for something that just doesn't quite feel right. However, I have not quite beaten it yet (just one more shard!) so I will hold my judgment on it until then.

[Nate]

I just beat the game! Anyway, ever since Zelda turned 3D, I think the bosses have been easier.

They have. Granted, the bosses in the other Zelda games weren't particularly dangerous either, but Mothula (the boss of Skull Woods from Link to the Past) was harder than any boss in the 3D Zelda games, except maybe Phantom Ganon from the Forest Temple in OoT.

And the slingshot shouldn't have even been in the game. You only use it a couple times in the very beginning. I think they only had it as a tribute to OoT.

Actually, Nintendo said the reason you got the slingshot so early was to familiarize people with using the remote to aim, so when you got the bow you were already fairly proficient with it.

But I agree, after you get the bow the slingshot is worthless. And I haven't used my lantern at all since the Forest Temple. I want my 20 Rupees back from that bottle of lantern oil I bought. :\

Actually...I've had 300 Rupees for a while anyway. There are three Rupee chests in the Goron Mines I can't get because my wallet is full. I HATE leaving chests unopened...they're taunting me. ><

[meboeck]

Actually...I've had 300 Rupees for a while anyway. There are three Rupee chests in the Goron Mines I can't get because my wallet is full. I HATE leaving chests unopened...they're taunting me. ><

I know exactly what you mean. They either need to let you get a bigger wallet sooner or let you just waste the rupees in the open chest, because closing it again makes it feel like you failed.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I know exactly what you mean. They either need to let you get a bigger wallet sooner or let you just waste the rupees in the open chest, because closing it again makes it feel like you failed.

The good thing is when you need them, you can go back and get them... but then again who wants to go back in a dungeon just for some rupees?

If you want a bigger wallet, get a gold bug and give it to Agita in Hyrule Castle Town. If you want a 1,000 rupee wallet, give her 24 gold bugs.

[Jingo Jaden]

Hmmm, I have the final armor you can get, I tell you you are gonna have to get a LOT of rupees to get one of them XD *anyone wanna know pm me ^^*

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Hmmm, I have the final armor you can get, I tell you you are gonna have to get a LOT of rupees to get one of them XD *anyone wanna know pm me ^^*

Yes, and it's a total waste. XD

[Cognitive Gear]

Just beat the game. Wow. Great final battle. No gimmick, just great Zelda-style fun.

I'm still disappointed by three things in this game:

1. The easy and gimmicky bosses.

2. How easy everything was. It used to be that I couldn't imagine Zelda games getting easier than Wind Waker, but it just happened. :/

3. The lack of a death tracker. In LttP, it listed all the dungeons and the number of deaths you had there. It also saved your game after you beat it and labeled your save file with the total number of deaths.

*shrug* It's a small thing, but I liked it alot! I wish that they'd bring it back.

[meboeck]

The good thing is when you need them, you can go back and get them... but then again who wants to go back in a dungeon just for some rupees?

If you want a bigger wallet, get a gold bug and give it to Agita in Hyrule Castle Town. If you want a 1,000 rupee wallet, give her 24 gold bugs.

I already knew that. But I started having a full wallet before I ever even met Agitha.

[Nate]

Just finished the Temple of Time and I'm doing the quest to get Ilia's memory back. This one has some neat items, I'll give it that. The Dominion Rod is fun. XD

I had to cheat online for one part though. The part where you're trying to get the Master Sword and have to get those two statues back on their pedestals...I like puzzles that require thinking, but that's just ridiculous. That's more annoying than mind-bending.

[Cognitive Gear]

I had to cheat online for one part though. The part where you're trying to get the Master Sword and have to get those two statues back on their pedestals...I like puzzles that require thinking, but that's just ridiculous. That's more annoying than mind-bending.

I thought that was the best puzzle in the game.... To each his own I guess.

[Bobtheduck]

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=221

[GrubbTheFragger]

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=221

XD YES I read that earlier i lost it laughing

[Nate]

You use the item you get in the dungeon to fight him. It's pretty much always been that way in Zelda games.

I was thinking about this at work, and I realized something. No, it hasn't always been that way. Never has been.

Let's ignore Zelda I and II because they were NES games, even though it is true you used the flute to beat Digdogger. The reason I'm ignoring them is because a) there weren't many items (especially in Zelda II) and b) games were made to be almost impossible back then to provide a false challenge.

So let's go with Link to the Past. This game has 10 dungeons, not including Ganon's Castle. The most dungeons in any Zelda game.

Out of those 10 dungeons, TWO dungeons requires you to use the item to beat the boss. That would be the Eastern Palace, in which the bow is necessary to beat the red Armos Knight, and Dungeon Two, the water dungeon, requiring you to use the hookshot to beat Arghus by pulling away the things surrounding it.

Out of the remaining eight, TWO dungeons have bosses in which the item you got is helpful but NOT required to beat the boss. This would be Dungeon One, the Palace of Darkness, in which the Magic Hammer could be used to break the Helmasaur King's mask (however, you could also use bombs, hence why it doesn't count as a "need the item to beat it"). The second is Dungeon Three, Skull Woods, in which the Fire Rod was helpful (but not required) to beat Mothula.

So that's it. Less than half the bosses in Link to the Past required you to use the dungeon item to beat the boss. So this is hardly a Zelda tradition. In fact, let's look at the coolest boss ever in Zelda history, Blind.

In the new games, once you get the Big Key and walk into the boss room, you fight the boss. Try that in Blind's Dungeon. Walk into the boss room and you get a big ol' room full of NOTHING. So what do you have to do? Well, there's a girl in the dungeon who says she's a prisoner and asks you to take her outside. If you try to take her outside, she'll say, "Oh no, not that way!" and disappear if you walk out. So you have to go to the room ABOVE the boss room and throw a bomb so that the cracked floor breaks open shining light into the boss room, THEN take the girl there and walk her into the light.

And good luck trying to use the dungeon item to fight Blind, because all you got was the golden gloves which helped you lift things, and there ain't a thing to lift in that boss room.

Now, was Blind a particularly hard boss? No, he was actually really easy. But you didn't use a stupid gimmick to beat him, and it wasn't as simple as walking into the room.

In fact, the treasures you got in most dungeons would be unusable against the boss of that dungeon. The Power Glove in the Desert Palace. The Blue Mail in the Ice Dungeon. The Mirror Shield in Turtle Rock. The Cane of Somaria in Misery Mire. Those items were USELESS against the boss of the dungeon, and trying to use them would bring death upon you. It wasn't as easy as the lame dungeons in these games where you go, "Oh, I got a Clawshot, I must have to pull the boss close to me or something" or "Oh, I got a bow, probably have to shoot the boss in an eye or something." Or take the Giant Moldorm in the Tower of Hera, where the treasure was the Moon Pearl (useless in combat). You hit him on the tail, hitting him on the head sends you flying back. He gets faster as you fight. If you make one wrong step, you fall and have to start all over again. Yeah. No bosses like that in the new games, let me tell you.

The only thing close to a boss like this in the new games is Phantom Ganon in OoT. Yeah, you use the bow at first, but once he loses his horse the bow is useless. Heck, even one boss in Majora's Mask doesn't require you to use the dungeon item, Goht from Snowhead. Well, okay, you have to use the fire arrows to melt the ice so you can fight him, but the arrows themselves are useless in the actual fight.

Game. Set. Match. This is why Link to the Past is the best Zelda game, and why the claim that "you always use the dungeon item to beat the boss" is a horrible and pathetic lie.

[Cognitive Gear]

Game. Set. Match. This is why Link to the Past is the best Zelda game, and why the claim that "you always use the dungeon item to beat the boss" is a horrible and pathetic lie.

QFT. I'm glad that you took the time to debunk that statement. I wanted to, but couldn't recall all the names of the bosses and whatnot. I certainly hope that Nintendo eventually gets the message that not all people want an easy, straightforward game. The wii is trying to appeal to everyone, but not everyone is satisfied with the kind of experience that TP has given us.

I think that after I finish preparing for tomorrow night's gaming session I will go play LttP again. *digs out SNES for what he hopes to be the last time* *prays for VC version*

[Nate]

Well, just now beat the game. It's hard to gauge a total playing time, as the game doesn't give that information...but I saved right before the final series of boss battles, and my time there is 30:13.

Woefully short of the 70+ hours I saw reviewers bragging about. And ten hours short of the what I am assuming to be the conservative 40 hour estimate.

Yes, I know. I didn't do a lot of the sidequests. Still, it seems to me a playing time should be indicative of a straightforward run of the game, rather than a comprehensive one. If someone calls this game a 60 hour game, I assume that to mean 60 hours from start to finish with no (or little) sidequest action.

Especially frustrating was the 40 hour range given by some reviewers to 70 hours by others. My mind said, "Okay, they must mean 40 hours with no sidequests, and 70 hours to do everything." Not even close. I'll be surprised if I pass the 40 hour mark on my second playthrough to achieve 100%.

Those reviewers that said 70 hours must really suck at Zelda games. That's my only theory.

I'm still disappointed at the lack of depth of bosses, and lack of depth of interesting side quests. Majora's Mask was excellent because it was chock-full of sidequests that gave you worthwhile items. What's my incentive for doing the sidequests in Twilight Princess? The fourth bottle? I had three bottles when I beat the game. I went into Hyrule Castle with one empty bottle, one blue potion, and the Great Fairy's Tears. I ended up using zero of those to beat Ganon. In LttP I downed at least ONE red potion, if nothing else, during the final Ganon fight. What's my reward for completing the Poe quest? Ooh, a silver rupee. Since I had 600 Rupees for about the last five hours of the game, this is hardly fulfilling.

Seriously. What the crap. I expected so much from this game. And it's a great game, don't get me wrong. But look, Nintendo. The people who played the original Legend of Zelda? Yeah, they're in their 20s now. We want optional dungeons (REAL dungeons, not stuff like the Cave of Ordeals). We want tough bosses. We want optional bosses. We want sidequests that have PURPOSE, not another empty bottle we won't freaking use.

In fact, the more I write about this, the more angry I am with Twilight Princess. I thought this was going to be a huge turning point for the Zelda series, a deep, immersive world with loads of sidequests and tons of innovation. And don't get me wrong, the dungeons were awesome...Snowpeak is officially my favorite Zelda dungeon ever. Using the Iron Boots to walk on ceilings and walls was sweet. But I wanted more out of this game as a whole.

[Cognitive Gear]

So today I was thinking about how I would rank TP among the other Zelda titles. This is what I've come up with so far: (is always subject to change)

Link to the Past
Majora's Mask
Wind Waker
Ocarina of Time
Link's Awakening
Legend of Zelda
Twilight Princess

I didn't bother ranking the Capcom GBC games. They where made by Capcom. Still good, but it just doesn't feel right to give them a spot. I also did not rank the recent GBA game due to the fact that I have not played it yet. Any others where intentionally left out.

Just curious, how do other fans rank the games?

[Nate]

Your list is actually not too far from my own. I'll rank all of 'em, except y'know, THOSE ones.

Link to the Past
Majora's Mask
Wind Waker
Ocarina of Time
Minish Cap
Oracle of Seasons/Ages
Twilight Princess
Link's Awakening
Four Swords Adventures
Legend of Zelda
Adventure of Link

[Fionn Fael]

Wow, kaemmerite, you're the least satisfied with Twilight Princess of anyone I've heard of. I just finished it yesterday, but I had a totally different opinion. Although I am a decade younger than yourself, I've played every Zelda except for the original NES titles, and I feel like TP is the best in the series.

How can you have so many complaints? The game's graphics were gorgeous (especially since it's taken so long to be produced), the plot was deeper than any previous one, the characters had great development and were very likeable, the world of Hyrule is positively enormous (and you even go beyond its borders to the sky and Twilight Realm), the whole thing is impossible to lose interest in, and, oh yeah, the gameplay is completely top-notch. Plus, the innumerable nods to OoT, MM, and WW(through music, characters, locations and more) were perfect for seasoned Zelda fans.

Oh, and as for your playing time... First of all, it was a little rude to declare that players who finish in 70 hours or more "suck". Maybe some people just like to take their time and finish every sidequest before moving on to the final boss. My time was around 68 hours, but I also finished the Poes, Golden Bugs, Fishing, Bottles, Cave of Ordeals, Secret Swordsmanship Moves, and Pieces of Heart quests. And, sure, I messed around a lot and spent some time riding Epona around Hyrule Field, killing monsters, finding grottos, and traipsing through Lantern Caves. But hey, it's FUN. It's meant to be! That's why they put things like that into the game to begin with! Besides, I understand wanting to further the story and go on to the next dungeon, but why not savor the actual game and take in what it offers?

Sorry, I don't want to start an argument or anything of the sort, but I simply found your blatantly negative "review" to be a little unfair and biased. Of course the game has faults. Every game does. But that's no reason to shoot it down so harshly.