Cowboy Bebop: The Movie (discussion)

The real heart of CAA; discuss specific series, issues, and things related to anime here.

Cowboy Bebop: The Movie (discussion)

Postby jon_jinn » Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:25 am

i wasn't sure if i should continue off an already-started thread on this movie or if i could just start a new thread on the movie so i decided to start a new thread. :sweat: anyways, this thread is to discuss the movie and what aspects of the movie you liked and, if you were confused by certain parts of the movie, to clear up those things. so, if those Bebop fans out there would please join in this thread, it would be much appreciated.
anyways, i will start by saying that the movie was absolutely spectacular. all my favorite characters were in there and a few new faces were introduced. i loved the final, climatic battle and the music was VERY well done. i was used to watching the dubbed version of the anime series so when i watched the movie subtitled i was a little surprised. however, i do believe that the subtitled voices were just as good, maybe even better, as the english dubbing.
now, there were some parts of the movie that i didn't understand and that is the main reason why i started this thread. most of the confusing parts of the movie will probably have to be in spoiler boxes but i will start with asking this, what do the golden butterflies represent? (this isn't a spoiler right?...)

thanks :sweat:
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]

[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur

"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper

"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)

"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper

"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper

"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul

"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll

"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther

"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)

"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan

"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
User avatar
jon_jinn
 
Posts: 3261
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
Location: California

Postby Esoteric » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:53 am

I too was pleasantly surprised at the quality of the movie when it came out and marveled at the battles. The dogfight is just..oooh! As for the golden butterflies....

[spoiler]In the movie, the scientist claims they are a hallucination caused by the nano virus when it enters the brain...kinda like seeing spots only instead, sparkling butterflies. Whether they chose butterflies simply to be artistic, or to symbolize something more, such as fleeting dreams, I'm not entirely sure. I know Vincent says he sees them all the time, but I think that it's primarily an indicative of his not living in the reality, and that the nanos have messed up his life big-time.[/spoiler]
User avatar
Esoteric
 
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:12 pm
Location: The Lost Room.

Postby mechana2015 » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:04 am

I think esoteric hit the nail on the head for the butterflies.

I love this move. It is, honestly, better than most american action movies by far, and the battles are fantastic.
The opening with the robbery is hilarious.
Image

My Deviantart
"MOES. I can has Sane Sig now?"
User avatar
mechana2015
 
Posts: 5025
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:33 am
Location: Orange County

Postby GrubbTheFragger » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:11 am

The movie was great Vincent easily rivaled and maybe *hides from hurled objects* eve surpasses Vicious as best villian
Follow and suggest movies.

Lightscameracritics.wordpress.com

Now running the 15 days of halloween.
User avatar
GrubbTheFragger
 
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Colorado Springs , CO

Postby Radical Dreamer » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:30 am

mechana2015 wrote:The opening with the robbery is hilarious.


Yeees, yes it is. XD

Anyways, I enjoyed this movie when I saw it last year sometime. I haven't seen it since, so I've forgotten some things, but yeah. I wouldn't call it my favorite movie of all time or anything, but it was good. :thumb:
[color="DeepSkyBlue"]4 8 15 16 23[/color] 42
[color="PaleGreen"]Rushia: YOU ARE MY FAVORITE IGNORANT AMERICAN OF IRISH DECENT. I LOVE YOU AND YOUR POTATOES.[/color]
[color="Orange"]WELCOME TO MOES[/color]

Image

User avatar
Radical Dreamer
 
Posts: 7950
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:00 am
Location: Some place where I can think up witty things to say under the "Location" category.

Postby jon_jinn » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:12 pm

Esoteric wrote:I too was pleasantly surprised at the quality of the movie when it came out and marveled at the battles. The dogfight is just..oooh! As for the golden butterflies....

[spoiler]In the movie, the scientist claims they are a hallucination caused by the nano virus when it enters the brain...kinda like seeing spots only instead, sparkling butterflies. Whether they chose butterflies simply to be artistic, or to symbolize something more, such as fleeting dreams, I'm not entirely sure. I know Vincent says he sees them all the time, but I think that it's primarily an indicative of his not living in the reality, and that the nanos have messed up his life big-time.[/spoiler]


okay i understand a little better now. but...

[spoiler]doesn't vincent have some sorta vaccine in his blood that renders the virus unaffective against him? that's why when the bombs went off, he didn't start coughing and stuff. if this is true, why does he still see the butterflies?[/spoiler]

also, i have another question...

[spoiler]why did spike and electra get arrested? the movie said that they got arrested because they had an antivirus in their body similar to vincent's right? if so, then why did spike start to hallucinate during his final fight with vincent? and how did vincent give faye some of his blood so that faye didn't die when she entered vincent and lee's hideout?[/spoiler]
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]

[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur

"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper

"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)

"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper

"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper

"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul

"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll

"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther

"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)

"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan

"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
User avatar
jon_jinn
 
Posts: 3261
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
Location: California

Postby Esoteric » Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:26 pm

Well...
[spoiler=Esoteric]Yes, that is one unexplained portion of the plot. He was immune to death from the nanos, but also remember he was an early test subject. During his time on Titan, he underwent severe mental and physical stresses...perhaps he had permanant brain damage resulting the condition. I agree the details as to why he still sees them are unclear, but then again he's crazy, so...[/spoiler]
And...
[spoiler=Esoteric]They were arrested because they knew too much. Cherious(sp?) Medical had been involved in the illegal manufacture of biological weapons. Both Cherious and the military wanted to keep this a secret. They intended to kill Spike and Electra, or erase their memories. And only Electra had the vaccine in her blood, not Spike. The only reason Electra had it was because she'd come in contact(most likely intimate) with Vincent before/during the war when he had the vaccine.

How did Faye get the vaccine from Vincent's blood? Well...she shoots his hand...he licks his hand...he kisses Faye with blood in his mouth. =vaccine transference.[/spoiler]
User avatar
Esoteric
 
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:12 pm
Location: The Lost Room.

Postby Tommy » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:37 pm

I thought it was a good movie. While inferior to the series (as expected), it's the best job they could've done.

The R rating alone was my least favorite aspect. I felt guilty watching it and after fully viewing, I think it should've been a PG-13.
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 5745
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Plymouth, Mass

Postby Stephen » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:41 pm

I still belive Vincent was the best villan in Cowboy Bebop. Yes, better then Vicious.
User avatar
Stephen
 
Posts: 7744
Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 5:00 am

Postby jon_jinn » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:51 pm

Esoteric wrote:Well...
[spoiler=Esoteric]Yes, that is one unexplained portion of the plot. He was immune to death from the nanos, but also remember he was an early test subject. During his time on Titan, he underwent severe mental and physical stresses...perhaps he had permanant brain damage resulting the condition. I agree the details as to why he still sees them are unclear, but then again he's crazy, so...[/spoiler]

well, i suppose that's the best explanation for the butterflies. thanks.

And...
[spoiler=Esoteric]They were arrested because they knew too much. Cherious(sp?) Medical had been involved in the illegal manufacture of biological weapons. Both Cherious and the military wanted to keep this a secret. They intended to kill Spike and Electra, or erase their memories. And only Electra had the vaccine in her blood, not Spike. The only reason Electra had it was because she'd come in contact(most likely intimate) with Vincent before/during the war when he had the vaccine.

How did Faye get the vaccine from Vincent's blood? Well...she shoots his hand...he licks his hand...he kisses Faye with blood in his mouth. =vaccine transference.[/spoiler]


okay. i understand that better now. but i have another question...

[spoiler]who was that shady character who gave spike that vase and told spike about vincent's background? was he just some random guy who happened to know vincent or what?[/spoiler]

i agree with shatterheart and grubb about vincent being better than vicious.
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]

[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur

"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper

"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)

"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper

"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper

"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul

"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll

"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther

"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)

"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan

"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
User avatar
jon_jinn
 
Posts: 3261
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
Location: California

Postby Esoteric » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:33 pm

who was that shady character who gave spike that vase and told spike about vincent's background? was he just some random guy who happened to know vincent or what?

Are you refering to the Morrocan? (I can't think of his name right now). He is in no way a random character.

[spoiler]He was the scientist which developed the nano weapon for Cherious medical. He created the nano machines as well as the vaccine which he administered to Vincent before the weapons were tested on the soldiers at Titan. The Morrocan realized the creation of such a weapon was a dangerous mistake. So he ran from Cherious. When he did so, he was unable to destroy the nano weapon to prevent it's use. He was however, able to destroy the vaccine he'd developed. By doing this, he hoped Cherious would be forced never to use it, (since they wouldn't be able to protect their own people from it once released). This strategy worked, until Vincent stole the nanos. Since the Morrocan was being hunted by Cherious, he couldn't reveal his identity straight out. He gave Spike the vase with it's dangerous contents in hopes he would put the pieces together. [/spoiler]
User avatar
Esoteric
 
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:12 pm
Location: The Lost Room.

Postby jon_jinn » Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:50 pm

Esoteric wrote:who was that shady character who gave spike that vase and told spike about vincent's background? was he just some random guy who happened to know vincent or what?

Are you refering to the Morrocan? (I can't think of his name right now). He is in no way a random character.

[spoiler]He was the scientist which developed the nano weapon for Cherious medical. He created the nano machines as well as the vaccine which he administered to Vincent before the weapons were tested on the soldiers at Titan. The Morrocan realized the creation of such a weapon was a dangerous mistake. So he ran from Cherious. When he did so, he was unable to destroy the nano weapon to prevent it's use. He was however, able to destroy the vaccine he'd developed. By doing this, he hoped Cherious would be forced never to use it, (since they wouldn't be able to protect their own people from it once released). This strategy worked, until Vincent stole the nanos. Since the Morrocan was being hunted by Cherious, he couldn't reveal his identity straight out. He gave Spike the vase with it's dangerous contents in hopes he would put the pieces together. [/spoiler]


[spoiler]Okay. Then how did he know that spike was going to come to him to ask him about Vincent? Or was that a coincidence? Also, when Cherious arrested spike, why didn’t they arrest the Morrocan also? Next, did the Morrocan administer the vaccine to Vincent, or the nano machines? Or did he give them both to Vincent? And why did he give them to Vincent in the first place? Finally, I thought Lee created the nano machines? Or did lee create something else?[/spoiler]

sorry I’m bombarding you with all these questions. It’s just...sorta confusing to me.
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]

[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur

"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper

"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)

"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper

"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper

"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul

"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll

"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther

"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)

"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan

"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
User avatar
jon_jinn
 
Posts: 3261
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
Location: California

Postby Esoteric » Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:26 pm

jon_jinn wrote:[spoiler]Okay. Then how did he know that spike was going to come to him to ask him about Vincent? Or was that a coincidence? Also, when Cherious arrested spike, why didn’t they arrest the Morrocan also? Next, did the Morrocan administer the vaccine to Vincent, or the nano machines? Or did he give them both to Vincent? And why did he give them to Vincent in the first place? Finally, I thought Lee created the nano machines? Or did lee create something else?[/spoiler]

sorry I’m bombarding you with all these questions. It’s just...sorta confusing to me.


Whew. Okay...
[spoiler]
Spike had been asking around town all day. The Morrocan likely noticed and observed him for a while to determine if he was truly a third party. By that I mean not working for Cherious or Vincent. The Morrocan apparently decided to give Spike a clue (the vase) in hopes that as a bounty hunter, he might actually be able to do something about Vincent.
When Cherious arrested Spike, they killed the Morrocan. Remember the gunshots before the soldiers surrounded Spike? They'd been hunting him a long time and...finally got him.

The Morrocan was ordered to create the nano machines weapons for the military. On the side, he apparently also created the vaccine, however, he didn't give that to the military. Why didn't he give them the vaccine too? I dunno. Maybe they didn't ask for one, since before Vincent altered the nanos, they were designed to have a pretty short live outside of a human body (this is why when the tanker exploded, only a few hundred were infected, not the whole city. After that attack, Vincent somehow managed to alter the nanos so that they wouldn't die off in the atmosphere, hence the serious need for a vaccine when he later blows up the pumpkin balloons.)
As to when the Morrocan gave Vincent the vaccine, it's unclear. But it's plausible to assume he met Vincent before the war on Titan.
The Morrocan knew the nano weapons would be tested on Titan, and if he knew Vincent was going to be sent there, it's plausible to assume he administered the vaccine to him before he departed to Titan. Why only Vincent? We don't know. The Morrocan seems to know a lot about Vincent, but doesn't appear to regard him with much sentiment, so I doubt they were close friends. Perhaps he gave Vincent the vaccine just to see if it would actually work...if he would survive on Titan when the military released the nanos. The motive is never completely spelled out, but something along these lines in likely.
As for Lee, he's not a scientist, he's a hacker. Vincent needed someone with good hacking skills to help him administer his little challenge to the world. So he hired Lee to help him with the details, like obtaining credit cards, information and security bypasses, whatever he needed in terms of technology support. Why did Lee do it? Because he was foolish punk who wanted to make a name for himself by pulling off a major hack job. Vincent lets him hack the entire Mars computer network to deliver Vincent's "Trick or Treat" message, which was a dare for anyone trying to stop him. After Lee accomplishes this, well his usefulness run out... [/spoiler]

Yeah, that was a lot of questions, but that's okay. The plot is actually very complex and I had to watch the movie a couple times before I could put all the pieces together myself.
User avatar
Esoteric
 
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:12 pm
Location: The Lost Room.

Postby jon_jinn » Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:54 pm

Esoteric wrote:Whew. Okay...
[spoiler]
Spike had been asking around town all day. The Morrocan likely noticed and observed him for a while to determine if he was truly a third party. By that I mean not working for Cherious or Vincent. The Morrocan apparently decided to give Spike a clue (the vase) in hopes that as a bounty hunter, he might actually be able to do something about Vincent.
When Cherious arrested Spike, they killed the Morrocan. Remember the gunshots before the soldiers surrounded Spike? They'd been hunting him a long time and...finally got him.

The Morrocan was ordered to create the nano machines weapons for the military. On the side, he apparently also created the vaccine, however, he didn't give that to the military. Why didn't he give them the vaccine too? I dunno. Maybe they didn't ask for one, since before Vincent altered the nanos, they were designed to have a pretty short live outside of a human body (this is why when the tanker exploded, only a few hundred were infected, not the whole city. After that attack, Vincent somehow managed to alter the nanos so that they wouldn't die off in the atmosphere, hence the serious need for a vaccine when he later blows up the pumpkin balloons.)
As to when the Morrocan gave Vincent the vaccine, it's unclear. But it's plausible to assume he met Vincent before the war on Titan.
The Morrocan knew the nano weapons would be tested on Titan, and if he knew Vincent was going to be sent there, it's plausible to assume he administered the vaccine to him before he departed to Titan. Why only Vincent? We don't know. The Morrocan seems to know a lot about Vincent, but doesn't appear to regard him with much sentiment, so I doubt they were close friends. Perhaps he gave Vincent the vaccine just to see if it would actually work...if he would survive on Titan when the military released the nanos. The motive is never completely spelled out, but something along these lines in likely.
As for Lee, he's not a scientist, he's a hacker. Vincent needed someone with good hacking skills to help him administer his little challenge to the world. So he hired Lee to help him with the details, like obtaining credit cards, information and security bypasses, whatever he needed in terms of technology support. Why did Lee do it? Because he was foolish punk who wanted to make a name for himself by pulling off a major hack job. Vincent lets him hack the entire Mars computer network to deliver Vincent's "Trick or Treat" message, which was a dare for anyone trying to stop him. After Lee accomplishes this, well his usefulness run out... [/spoiler]

Yeah, that was a lot of questions, but that's okay. The plot is actually very complex and I had to watch the movie a couple times before I could put all the pieces together myself.


it's official. i now completely understand the cowboy bebop movie. everything makes sense and everything is clear. it feels so good to finally get the pieces all laid out and put together. thank you so much for answering my many questions. it must've been a little time-consuming so i appologize for that. :sweat: anyways, thanks again!!! :thumb:
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]

[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur

"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper

"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)

"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper

"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper

"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul

"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll

"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther

"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)

"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan

"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
User avatar
jon_jinn
 
Posts: 3261
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
Location: California

Postby memmer66 » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:19 pm

Tom Dincht wrote:I thought it was a good movie. While inferior to the series (as expected), it's the best job they could've done.

The R rating alone was my least favorite aspect. I felt guilty watching it and after fully viewing, I think it should've been a PG-13.


The only reason they rated it R is because they wanted to show parents that it's not a kids movie, which it isn't but the R is just stupid because it's not R material. I mean, Steamboy and Metropolis are rated PG-13 and Cowboy Bebop: Knockin' On Heaven's Door has very little more content then those. If you ask me it's stupid because a lot of kids (or even adults who don't take chances) won't be able to watch it because their parents won't let them. I had to convince my dad to let me watch it, and after a FREAKING MONTH I FINALLY convinced him to let me watch it, just to find it wasn't that bad. I personally think they should put sensible people on the MPAA. I also think Halo should have been rated T for Teen but thats a different subject.
[SIGPIC]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v151/Ryuketsu/battleroyale.jpg[/SIGPIC]
Best Beginning To A Review EVER: The fact that I watched this movie after eating poisonous mushrooms only went to enhance the realism :lol:
User avatar
memmer66
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Location: Halloween Town

Postby Esoteric » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:30 am

jon_jinn wrote:It's official. i now completely understand the cowboy bebop movie. everything makes sense and everything is clear. it feels so good to finally get the pieces all laid out and put together. thank you so much for answering my many questions. it must've been a little time-consuming so i appologize for that. anyways, thanks again!!!

Wooo! Success!!!!! Hehehe, glad I could help.
The only reason they rated it R is because they wanted to show parents that it's not a kids movie, which it isn't but the R is just stupid because it's not R material. I mean, Steamboy and Metropolis are rated PG-13 and Cowboy Bebop: Knockin' On Heaven's Door has very little more content then those.

I don't want to get drawn into a debate or anything but I've seen Steamboy and Bebop is definitely not on the same level. I understand why they rated it R. Vincent is a truly evil sociopath and he does some very cruel and disturbing things. They may not have been portrayed in the typical gory R manner, but they were still done with great realism which makes them just as mature a subject. So in my opinion, they did rate it correctly.
User avatar
Esoteric
 
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:12 pm
Location: The Lost Room.

Postby Tommy » Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:47 am

Esoteric wrote:I don't want to get drawn into a debate or anything but I've seen Steamboy and Bebop is definitely not on the same level. I understand why they rated it R. Vincent is a truly evil sociopath and he does some very cruel and disturbing things. They may not have been portrayed in the typical gory R manner, but they were still done with great realism which makes them just as mature a subject. So in my opinion, they did rate it correctly.


I don't understand what you mean by this. In many PG-13 movies, villians do more disturbing things.

Notice you say it wasn't portrayed in the typical R-rated gorey manner. It was represented in a PG-13 gorey manner, thus it should have been PG-13.

I agree that it was only rated R because they wanted to show people that serious cartoons don't HAVE to be for little kids.

It was nothing more than a typical action movie. Unlike the series, there was nothing unique about it.
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 5745
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Plymouth, Mass

Postby Radical Dreamer » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:51 am

Eh, I think some of the stuff warranted an R-rating. Let's not forget about that scene with Vincent and Faye. If Bebop were live action, and that had happened in the movie in the same way, then it still would have gotten an R-rating, I think.
[color="DeepSkyBlue"]4 8 15 16 23[/color] 42
[color="PaleGreen"]Rushia: YOU ARE MY FAVORITE IGNORANT AMERICAN OF IRISH DECENT. I LOVE YOU AND YOUR POTATOES.[/color]
[color="Orange"]WELCOME TO MOES[/color]

Image

User avatar
Radical Dreamer
 
Posts: 7950
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:00 am
Location: Some place where I can think up witty things to say under the "Location" category.

Postby GrubbTheFragger » Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:04 am

Radical Dreamer wrote:Eh, I think some of the stuff warranted an R-rating. Let's not forget about that scene with Vincent and Faye. If Bebop were live action, and that had happened in the movie in the same way, then it still would have gotten an R-rating, I think.



*high fives* Yes the main reason (IMO) other than the violent content was Vincent and Faye. Nudity was present if only for a split second it was there and they slapped the R rating on it.
Follow and suggest movies.

Lightscameracritics.wordpress.com

Now running the 15 days of halloween.
User avatar
GrubbTheFragger
 
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Colorado Springs , CO

Postby Esoteric » Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:30 am

Tom Dincht wrote:I don't understand what you mean by this. In many PG-13 movies, villians do more disturbing things.

Notice you say it wasn't portrayed in the typical R-rated gorey manner. It was represented in a PG-13 gorey manner, thus it should have been PG-13.

I agree that it was only rated R because they wanted to show people that serious cartoons don't HAVE to be for little kids.

It was nothing more than a typical action movie. Unlike the series, there was nothing unique about it.


Okay, let me see if I can clarify what I mean. There is certain criteria which makes a movie Pg-13 or R, etc. These criteria are most obvious when pertaining to language, graphic violence and sex. There are other less obvious criteria however, which include how these elements are actually portayed and how impressionable they are. For example, The Matrix didn't strike me as a particularily strong R movie either, until I watched it again later. It totally glorifies violence and destruction, making it seem cool. This is extremely impressionble to teenage audiences, hence the R rating.

So in Bebop for example, Vincent pointblank blows away a traffic cop for no reason at all other than it was a convenient way for him to handle the situation. He didn't have to, he simply didn't care about human life.
This was a heinious crime, as are many other things he does in the movie.
Most teenagers are extremely impressionable, and you'd be surprised at how much behaviour young adults learn from what movies and TV portray as reality, both right and wrong. So what might viewing this type of coldhearted murder subconciously suggest to some kids that frankly are prone to violent behaviour?
I realize this might sound like a stretch, but trust me, studies show a significant connection in young audiences. Heck, my own nephew would become notably more argumentative and agressive after playing a cartoon game like Super Smash Bros!
So Bebop may not have earned an R for gore, or language or sex, but it certainly earned one for the strong portayal of evil.
User avatar
Esoteric
 
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:12 pm
Location: The Lost Room.

Postby Tommy » Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:54 pm

Radical Dreamer wrote:Eh, I think some of the stuff warranted an R-rating. Let's not forget about that scene with Vincent and Faye. If Bebop were live action, and that had happened in the movie in the same way, then it still would have gotten an R-rating, I think.


Of course it would have if it was Live Action?! If it was live action it would've been a women, not a drawing of one.

Let's not forget that absolutely nothing was shown.
User avatar
Tommy
 
Posts: 5745
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Plymouth, Mass

Postby GrubbTheFragger » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:03 pm

Tom Dincht wrote:Of course it would have if it was Live Action?! If it was live action it would've been a women, not a drawing of one.

Let's not forget that absolutely nothing was shown.


Ok calm down she was stating her oppion nothing more nothing less. It got an R-rating nothing your oppions can do about it. i think She was right although it was implied so it still is not good. Also memmber fan made a very valid point its also there showing parents that just cuz its animated doesn't mean its a kids movie. And last but not least Esoteric hit the nail of the head it also got an R-rating for High portrail of evil. So back to the point lets let this discussion before it gets blown out of preportion settle and lets just think Cowboy bebop got rated R for Strong evil, animated violence, some blood, inplied rape.
Follow and suggest movies.

Lightscameracritics.wordpress.com

Now running the 15 days of halloween.
User avatar
GrubbTheFragger
 
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Colorado Springs , CO

Postby Radical Dreamer » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:15 pm

Tom Dincht wrote:Of course it would have if it was Live Action?! If it was live action it would've been a women, not a drawing of one.

Let's not forget that absolutely nothing was shown.



Wow, if we're going with the theory that it's "just a drawing", I guess that makes hentai ok, too. :shady:

Anyways, yeah. I think you see my point.
[color="DeepSkyBlue"]4 8 15 16 23[/color] 42
[color="PaleGreen"]Rushia: YOU ARE MY FAVORITE IGNORANT AMERICAN OF IRISH DECENT. I LOVE YOU AND YOUR POTATOES.[/color]
[color="Orange"]WELCOME TO MOES[/color]

Image

User avatar
Radical Dreamer
 
Posts: 7950
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 9:00 am
Location: Some place where I can think up witty things to say under the "Location" category.

Postby jon_jinn » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:04 pm

eh. i'm sorry but i have one more question. why did spike punch morrocan after he finished talking to him about vincent?
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]

[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur

"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper

"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)

"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper

"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper

"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul

"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll

"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther

"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)

"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan

"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
User avatar
jon_jinn
 
Posts: 3261
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
Location: California

Postby GrubbTheFragger » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:21 pm

jon_jinn wrote:eh. i'm sorry but i have one more question. why did spike punch morrocan after he finished talking to him about vincent?



You know thats good question. I think mostly because Spike is Spike XD
Follow and suggest movies.

Lightscameracritics.wordpress.com

Now running the 15 days of halloween.
User avatar
GrubbTheFragger
 
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Colorado Springs , CO

Postby Doe Johnson » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:38 pm

jon_jinn wrote:eh. i'm sorry but i have one more question. why did spike punch morrocan after he finished talking to him about vincent?

hehe, i think he did it because he invented the nanomachines.

(btw, i didn't think he died at the end, i thought he just ran off before the military dudes got there)
The #1 Fan of mastersquirrel's Voice!

In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri. - Douglas Adams
I smell cinnamon roll-y!!

You fight like a dairy farmer!
The Giver of Quality Hugs
I felt a great bump in the Thread, as if millions of posts suddenly bumped in terror and were suddenly silenced.

No - My birthday isn't really on the Ides of March, but that is the fake date I use everywhere on the Internet.
Adopted: ishy

the cc is special ground, cc's provide protection to all who seek shelter there, no violence can be done in a cower corner - it is known
User avatar
Doe Johnson
 
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: Kansas

Postby Esoteric » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:45 pm

Doe Johnson wrote:hehe, i think he did it because he invented the nanomachines.

(btw, i didn't think he died at the end, i thought he just ran off before the military dudes got there)


Yeah, that's why I think he did it too. He was in part, responsible for what was happening. And I suppose you could be right about him getting away, but considering the situation, the pessimist in me doubts it very strongly.
User avatar
Esoteric
 
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:12 pm
Location: The Lost Room.

Postby jon_jinn » Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:26 pm

gah. i have another question. what did Faye mean at the end of the movie (when she was in the plane with Jet) when she said something about horses?
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]

[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur

"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper

"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)

"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper

"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper

"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul

"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll

"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther

"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)

"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan

"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
User avatar
jon_jinn
 
Posts: 3261
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
Location: California

Postby rocklobster » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:20 am

I think the bean salesman was probably just some merchant and an old friend of Spike's, judging by the dialog. Oh, and I did review this movie, jon. Check out the review list. I also agree that the movie should've been rated PG-13. Probably some of the people at the MPAA felt a little uneasy about Faye's choice of attire. (Most of them are actually parents themselves) I've always wondered why it never falls off. OK, so I'm being a little lecherous.
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you. I appointed you to be a prophet of all nations."
--Jeremiah 1:5
Image
Hit me up on social media!
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007205508246<--Facebook

I'm also on Amino as Radical Edward, and on Reddit as Rocklobster as well.


click here for my playlist!
my last fm profile!
User avatar
rocklobster
 
Posts: 8903
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:27 pm
Location: Planet Claire

Postby Doe Johnson » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:22 pm

jon_jinn wrote:gah. i have another question. what did Faye mean at the end of the movie (when she was in the plane with Jet) when she said something about horses?

I can't remember what it was she said, but I know she went to bet on the horse races afterwards. Is that what it was about? Or was it some sort of weird saying?
The #1 Fan of mastersquirrel's Voice!

In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri. - Douglas Adams
I smell cinnamon roll-y!!

You fight like a dairy farmer!
The Giver of Quality Hugs
I felt a great bump in the Thread, as if millions of posts suddenly bumped in terror and were suddenly silenced.

No - My birthday isn't really on the Ides of March, but that is the fake date I use everywhere on the Internet.
Adopted: ishy

the cc is special ground, cc's provide protection to all who seek shelter there, no violence can be done in a cower corner - it is known
User avatar
Doe Johnson
 
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: Kansas

Next

Return to Anime and Anime Reviews

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 152 guests