CAA has lost it's purpose

[Fsiphskilm]

I'm deeply offended by what's been going on here lately. Before you tell me to hush and just stay away from threads that offend me please read.

Please take note that I'm not angry, or yelling while I'm saying this

What's the Big Deal?
After reading some of the recent threads I've just been shocked at the what members are begining to support... For the Love of GOD this is a christian Message board!
[indent]I'm not one to judge but I find it almost sad to see that Christian Book series such as LEFT behind are bashed and ripped to shreads in certain threads. while others like Vampires, Warewolves, and Christian Spins on Legends are so accepted.[/indent]

What are newbie christians going to think when they hear us dissing on ->Fictional<- christian works like Left Behind for it's flawed theology while we praise and support the idea for Christian Sorcerors, vampires. etc...

I'm sorry to be such a party pooper but I think you'll find both I and some other members are getting a bit worried about this... I'm just saying we're begingin to focus a bit too much on the dark corners of fantasy. Isn't CAA purpose to unite christians together, I mean if banning Manfaye, and Zeliously Gay users is the basis of keeping the values here clean, then why are ideas like this going around?

I mean being open-minded is nice but what happened to morals and Biblical rules... So it's okay to ignore our Bible whenever we're talking about Fantasy??? It's just appauling to me. Sorry for being so old-fashioned. I know I'm not one to talk but this's created a soft spot in me. I'm just going to pray for now. I'm hoping something will be done about it?

[indent]I'm just saying this nicely, maybe I'm over reacting, but inside I'm getting VERY bad fealings about all this, maybe I'm seeing something that everyone else isn't but I sense something bad, Let's try not to turn this message board into the whore of revelation. (hope I didn't over-react, I'm just getting crazy vibes here, It's really starting to freak me out... I hope that we can all return to the real purpose of this message board. And not use it as some dark fanfic forum. [/indent]

[shooraijin]

With all due respect, I think you're blowing this quite out of proportion. In the first place, I think the assertions made about Left Behind vs., say, vampire tales were based on the technique and quality of the fiction rather than the Christian or non-Christian aspects; and two, I don't see any ethical support expressed by anyone for the concept of a "Christian Sorceror."

Focus on the dark side of anything (not merely fantasy) is unhealthy, but I don't see the topics nor the level of discussion approaching anything close to an alarming obsession.

I'm not going to remove this thread, or lock it (yet), but strongly reconsider your assertions. As with all potentially divisive threads, this will get shut down with minimal provocation on anyone's part.

[Fsiphskilm]

I guess I am over-reacting... My lil Spiritual alarm just started going off. I'm still standing up for what I beleive and I apreciate you keeping the thread here and not locking it. I guess I'm just senseing something that isn't here, or maybe isn't here yet.

My apolgies to everyone who thinks I'm crazy, I'm still sticking to my gut fealing though...

[Saint Kevin]

I do think you over-reacted. Nevertheless, I do want to address something you brought up. One of the reasons that I believe that a "fictional christian work like Left Behind" is scrutinized for it's "flawed theology" is because although the Left Behind Series is a fictional work, it genuinely reflects the eschatological beliefs of the authors. If something about their beliefs strike us as potentially unbiblical, I believe that such concerns should be addressed amd discussed (lovingly, of course). The reason (I believe) why vampire stories or other stories of fantasy are not scrutinized as much is because it is inherently understood by both author and reader that the worlds the authors create are pure fantasy. Food for thought Volt.

[inkhana]

Right, St. Kev...that's exactly the deal. We already know and understand that fantasy is strictly that...fantasy. Most people aren't going to be affected on a spiritual level by that...there's no need to scrutinize it heavily. But if things are presented in the "Left Behind" series are accepted by people as truth ("Well, the authors are Christian - surely they did their research if they were going to write something for God, right?") even though it's heavily fictionalized (any work about Revelations would be by necessity)...that could cause problems on many levels.

Although we do appreciate your concern...

[Mave]

0.o *scratches head*

I haven't looked at the "Left Behind" thread. But I do happen to get disturbed by the terms "vampire, werewolves, sorceror etc." (so you're not really alone about feeling uncomfortable, Volt). To keep things peaceful, I just stay away from those threads. It's just not my type of fantasy.

I won't say "CAA has lost its purpose" though simply because of that.

[Fsiphskilm]

Yea I'm just going to drop it... Apparently you guys are seeing what I'm seeing. That's fine though, we're all different. But the question of fantasy is the key word here...

How far can you take it before someone stops and says something about it. I understand it's just fantasy but that doesn't mean it's harmless...There's anime out there that's 100% fantasy but at the same time is taken seriously.

Examples:
-If you make a fic about Santan being good and God being evil...
-Or a fic about christian Idol worshipers
-or Christians who assasinate people.

It just has it's limit. I understand you'r point too though.

[inkhana]

Well, the thing is, there's a bit of difference between "warped theology" or "misrepresentation of Christianity in the guise of fantasy" and "fantasy elements". We were just talking about vampires, werewolves, etc...stuff that has no basis in reality. The latter (last sentence) would be scrutinized at the very least in a heartbeat. We would never let something like that run unchecked.

[Fsiphskilm]

I won't say "CAA has lost its purpose" though simply because of that.

Yea I agree, I just came up with a quick title.

Like I said you guys and I are from completely different worlds. Fantasy has gotten me and others into serious trouble before. None-the-less diverstiy is a blessing. You believe fantasy is just fantasy while I see it as something that opens a gateway into your intuition and thoughts. I just take things like that seriously *Grins* (Fantasy's gotten Volt into bad spiritual trouble...Very bad spiritual trouble.)

[Fsiphskilm]

The latter (last sentence) would be scrutinized at the very least in a heartbeat. We would never let something like that run unchecked.

Yea. Thanks for yalls kindness. Feel free to change the title to "Volt's Crazy Rant & paranoia" LOL

I guess this is another one of my Misinterpretations due to limited emotion expressed by text. We should have an abreviation for it, (MD-LEET)

Hmmm I still don't know why I freaked out so much. Sorry I just have this thing about CAA. I like this place a lot, And the though of anything changing this christian comminty... I've seen lots of Christian places get burned down (people, communities, web sites, churches all dissapearing) It's been hard for me to find a place to call home. And I guess I just unhealthily obsessed.

[Da Rabid Duckie]

You know, I feel like I should encourage Volt. I don't think you're crazy and paranoid at all. While we all agree that it may have been a little gung-ho, I think your motives were absolutely correct.

You guys have only known me for a short time, so I'm probably not the best person to speak on the subject. However, I do have a great deal of experience with the underlying matter because of my position on another forum. I help run Christian Spotlight's Guide 2 Games, which is basically like CAA but commercially owned and about video games. And you can ask Kite and MasterDias (who both post there), it's a role that I take seriously.

On my forum, I state this often (and I mean it): There are a large number of children and youth that read these forums... and I as a member I feel that I have a responsibility to ensure that there is content on these forums that provides growth amongst the youth and the children that visit here. I also want to make sure that any parent that comes here searching for the truth about their child's favorite shows does not find anything here that would make them forbid their child from watching anime completely. Instead, I want this place to be a tool in the hands of Christians to effectively discern what anime is and is not fruitful in our lives..

I constantly ask myself this:

-- What kind of image do we present as a Christian forum?
-- If I were a parent that was visiting the forum to check on some stuff for my kids, what would my first reaction be?
-- If someone were to call us on our hobbies, what would we have to kick under the rug, and what could we present and say "here, look at this! This is a great example of something that is good!"

And you know, I'm not trying to bring anyone down, and certainly not trying to tell anyone how to run this place. I'm trying to encourage people, and I'm just doing it the best way I know how. Some may also question my motives when I've come here with so much to say, so I'll state my intentions (something I rarely do). I'm here because I love anime, I believe in the vision of this site, and I'd like to do what I can to make sure that the CAA has one of the best reputations on the internet. I can't really think of anything wrong with that. ^_^

[Vampi]

I blew up at first like Volt did. I didn't say anything though cos I'm still kinda new around here and my online name and avatar contradict me. I wasn't thinking that CAA was losing it's purpose; I was thinking "Who are these people trying to fool?" So Volt, you aren't alone in your....is it now first?....stand. I think it was completely normal for you to burst like that....(mainly cos I've gotten into very deep spiritual problems by playing around with certain types of fantasy and stuff...and I NEVER want to fall back into that condition.........)

[thorn1ofmany]

We already know and understand that fantasy is strictly that...fantasy. Most people aren't going to be affected on a spiritual level by that...there's no need to scrutinize it heavily.

I disagree, fantasy does affect people on a spiritual level and should be greatly scrutinized. Just not by its particulars. By particulars I mean the specific story elements. Vampires, werewolves and even sorcerers are all story elements thats can be infinitely redefined. In fact they have to be in order to maintain a constant flow of new stories. The intense scrutinizing should be applied to how the specifics of a story are used to represent the Christian worldview.

[Paulo Q.]

I disagree with pretty much everything that was said here. Not with the thoughts themselves but with the actions suggested to deal with them. I mean, haven't we learned nothing with the middle ages witch hunt? you wanna start one here?
Does the christian theology teach intolerance? One has to learn with the "enemy", see where they have fallen to avoid those mistakes, so you see, beating the enemy is not enough and is certainly not the best way to make things better.

[ThaKladd]

who is that man in the avatar Volt....?? looks like a demon hehe - with the horns stikking out and the angry face and red eyes... correct me if I'm wrong, becaus I don't know who the avatar represents... but.. you understand what I mean.....

[ShiroiHikari]

I read the threads in question. To me, it seems like everyone posting has a firm grip on reality. So what's the problem here? I mean, if you stop discussing vampires and the like because they're questionable, then you should stop discussing many other elements of fantasy as well, which would include a significant chunk of anime. Now, I could be missing the point, and if I am, clarify.

[Da Rabid Duckie]

I mean, if you stop discussing vampires and the like because they're questionable, then you should stop discussing many other elements of fantasy as well, which would include a significant chunk of anime. Now, I could be missing the point, and if I am, clarify.

Not as much as you think, actually. Based on my level of convictions (which I'm not pushing on anyone, merely explaining) I don't play video games, read manga, or watch any anime with occultic references or magical themes to it. I do make occasional exceptions after studying something a great deal (like .hack//, for example) but for the most part I stay away from the stuff. That said, I watched at LEAST forty to fifty different anime series from just 2003 alone that didn't violate my convictions in the least bit. It's possible, and magical themes are far less dominant than people think, but I find that most have to remove themselves from it to notice.

[Twilly Spree]

If you've ever seen any of my posts reguarding fantasy, you know how I feel.

I don't have a problem with it. Though I have not participated in the "vampire" threads, if people wanna talk about it that's fine. I assume they're not like "hey everybody let's become vampires or think we're vampires!" As for the Left Behind thread, I don't enjoy the books. I don't feel the need to post. Again if someone wants to talk about it, by all means go for it.

As for fantasy, it's harmless. I know I have been raised in a very liberal environment, which I am proud of. I just have never seen the problem with enjoying a little fantasy now and then.

[cbwing0]

I mean, haven't we learned nothing with the middle ages witch hunt? you wanna start one here?

The major difference being that most of those people were not actually witches, while in this case we are talking about Christians advocating/defending sorcery, or performing linguistic circumlocutions in an attempt to get the most power out of their Christian ex-sorcerers.

Does the christian theology teach intolerance? One has to learn with the "enemy", see where they have fallen to avoid those mistakes, so you see, beating the enemy is not enough and is certainly not the best way to make things better.

In this case, yes. Christian theology teaches intolerance to sin. Christian theology also teaches intolerance to false doctrine, division, and immorality withing the body of believers. Is this bad? Of course not. If we allowed them to run rampant, the church would fall.

Also, what do you mean by "learn with the 'enemy?' That sounds highly suspect to me. Also, Christ defeated "the enemy" on the cross, so beating the enemy is most certainly the best course of action.

I know I have been raised in a very liberal environment, which I am proud of.

I'm actually more conservative than my parents, who raised me in a rather liberal manner.

[Technomancer]

I see little reason to be afraid of fantasy, and I would tend to think that it has considerable narrative possibilities both as a Christian and secular medium. Tolkien after all, very deftly combined Christian and pagan themes, drawing from inspiration his faith as well as the pagan Norse sagas.

[Zarn Ishtare]

Christian sorcerors? Tch, they have those. Their called "Christian-Wiccans". Fools, perverting the Faith and damning their own souls...Remember, what appears to be fantasy is closer to the truth then you know. Harry Potter, for example. While lauded as a Moral book, and a must read for children, many young people have converted to Wicca from Christianity becuase of these books. This isn't just Propaganda, either....I've looked into it. its also far to realistic and symbolic of True Wicca. J.K did her research....of Course, I've always called Harry Potter a Wanna be fantasy anyway....I mean, you don't include REAL places in any True Fantasy. you don't mention things in the real world, either. the story of Harry Potter is Sensationalist Fiction bull. And yet I know plenty of YOUNG kids that wish they had magical powers, or even buy tons of Tatoos of the lightning mark on his forhead, then take that mark themselves. The same mark was used as a Nazi symbol during the Second World War. and Yet people continue to flock to Harry Potter, Even Christians! I agree with you, Volt, although Harry Potter is Fiction (not deserving the name Fantasy) it is harmful to the real world. Any Genre can get you in trouble, Especially fantasy. Your right about setting the example too. We can't delve into the darkness, and then expect to live good christian lives. There is a difference between Fantasy and Reality, and I do read books with sorcerers and Mages in them (Which are not based off true Magic like H.P) But we have to set the Standard for other people to follow. Moderator dude, don't shut this topic down, cus Volts got some smart things to say, things that could improve the site, he just needs to use less Grandoise language.....And the CAA has never lost its perpose.

[JediSonic]

I think the important thing is that a christian not read, watch or even discuss fantasy IF that fantasy is potentially harmful to his or her faith. I won't argue with the fact that YES, if you become overly obsessed with any particular fantasy it can harm your soul. For example, I have been a huge starwars fan since I was about 6 years old. When I was little I would (when bored sometimes), on occasion, even try to 'concentrate' and 'clear my mind' and lift objects with the force! lol Actually, I wasn't taking it seriously, it was more like a little kid's curiouscity "just checking..." sort of thing. However, I have no doubt (as studies have proven) that people raised differently than me may be more subject to doing things like, for example, calling "jedi" or "sorcery", or any other made-up or even satanic nonsense their religion. However... I am still a big starwars fan to this day, and aside from that tiniest bit of childish curioscity, I don't feel that it has done me any spiritual damage whatsoever. Now obviously, a lot of people (myself included, presently) would call it a far stretch to refer to StarWars as 'occult'. Now, if I had been a little kid similarly obsessed with Harry Potter, I might have been in a bit more trouble.

Really, it all depends on the individual's ability to clearly distinguish fantasy from reality. That said, I think there was some merit to Volt's original statment, but as long as each thread participant understands clearly that any talk of magic IS just fun and games, and NOT to be taken seriously, I don't see any problem with having threads a few threads about vampire fiction lying around.

[EDIT:] Not that I agree with purely satanic matrial under ANY circumstances , actually...

[Zarn Ishtare]

Nice Reply, JediSonic. Smart, intelligent, very clear cut...you have a good point too. I also see that we have to keep Fantasy and Reality Clearly in their own areas...anyway, thank you for the imput.

[JediSonic]

Thankyou

(post #399... one more to 400!)

[Twilly Spree]

Zarn, I enjoy Harry Potter. As I've said on so many forums, let kids be kids. When I was a kid I thought Barbie was the model woman, I was going to grow and be a "cheerlearder girl" (my exact words) and loved horses. I actually pretended I was a my Little Pony there for awhile. The point is I grew out of it. I found after riding a horse, that they scare the living crap out of me. I don't want to be a cheerleader when I grow up, and I am most definitely not a my Little Pony. So a kid thinks they're a wizard for awhile. At least Harry has morals (though you claim they're not there) about bravery, standing up for oneself, and that it's okay to be different. I'd rather my children use their imaginations and let them run free then becoming homogenized and boring. I think Barbie does more harm to the girls of our nation than Harry Potter will ever do.

Back on topic......a lot of people on this site have different comfort levels on fantasy. I think forcing a non-fantasy policy on them would be like forcing your beliefs on them.

[CAAOutkast]

It doesn't matter if you're Gay,Straight,Liberal,or Consevative. If you follow the bible word for word and acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Only God,Prefect, and the lord of the universe. than your're ok.

and as for the fantasy issue, Sexual fantasy is the ONLY evil fantasy there is, and christians shouldn't take part in it, because it's un-godly and anti-christian.

[CAAOutkast]

BTW, I really have nothing against fantasy , as long as the fantasy fan can tell fantasy from reality, they will be fine.

[Twilly Spree]

When I said beliefs I don't mean as in the fundamental stuff, I guess I should say "your standards" upon everyone else. My bad.

[Paulo Q.]

What I meant with learning from the enemy was that there was some reason for one person to follow a path, that may not allways be the right one (so we must recognize it and avoid it).
As to the tolerance, what I wanted to say, was that instead of condemning them you should try talking them out of it, now the first thing said was to throw them out, and I ask, is that the right thing to do? Many inocents(or Christians who can be talked out of it) can be cought in the movement.
Now, as you mentioned Christ beated the enemy on the cross, how? By beating them or by converting them?
I think a little fantasy is OK to each of us as long as draw a line somewhere but that line is for each of us to draw for him/herself.

[Zarn Ishtare]

Hey, I am a fan of True Fantasy (The Kind J.r.r Tolkien wrote, the Kind Mcdonald wrote, the kind C.S. Lewis wrote) And have nothing against Fantasy, cept the sex one, becuase it's disgusting and perverted. and, by the way, if you follow the word of God to the letter you Won't be homosexual for here it is, a bible verse I can't put an adress too..."Homosexuality is as the Sin of WITCHCRAFT". Think about it this way. Jesus said to clean the inside of the cup, not just the outside. The Religious leaders of his day were thought perverts, in many ways, and they were only pure on the outside. If its wrong to think perverted thoughts about someone (For he said that if you lusted after a women, then you had already commited adultery in your heart) THen whats the difference between that and Magic? You want to pretend to be a witch, than your just doing the same thing. and I used to read harry potter (I still remember everything about it, I own all of the books, cept the fifth one...) And I stopped becuase I found it was wrong. and for every so called "moral" in the story, theres an immoral. Think about all the times Harry has broken the rules. But instead of punishment, he allways gets a reward instead. even when its not obvious, he's rewarded for wrong behaivor. Moral my Kilala! being a Christian and reading Hp? Wrong. and I will be happy to debate the point to oblivion. I'm convicted in my beliefs, and whilest I will be friendly, I will be firm. but lets go to theo with this one..