Good old days of gaming?

[Myoti]

Shoot, each time period was practically an epic in itself. Going to fight against Magus in one, defeat the dinosaurs guys in another (forgot their names), battling Queen Zeal and the Mammon Machine inside a flying fortress, etc.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I also didn't like how Chrono was a silent protagonist. I generally perfer characters to have their own lines. Earthbound is another fantastic RPG with a silent protagonist.

I no way am I saying Chrono Trigger is a bad game. It's definately one of the best RPGs in existence. FF6 just takes the cake for me. Best soundtrack + Most Memorable Characters = Mine. My favorite part of FF6 must be the boss battles alone, as I think it's simply the best Boss Battle music anywhere. Pumps you up.

I do justify the silent protagonist in Half-Life, because in the game, you are Gordon Freeman. In Chrono Trigger, I didn't feel as "connected" to Chrono as I did with Gordon Freeman. I think it's just how the character was presented, as I'm sure if the game was made slighty different, you could "be" Chrono.

[Nate]

Actually, Chrono DOES speak, in one of the endings. He just feels there isn't a reason to talk the rest of the game, I guess.

And I disagree with the whole character development in FFVI. The only characters that were fleshed out to a decent degree were only the "main" characters of Terra, Locke, Celes, Sabin, Edgar, and Cyan. Some characters were developed for a little bit, and forgotten afterwards, such as Gau, Strago, Relm, Shadow, and Setzer. Then there were the ones that were given practically no character development, Gau, Umaro, Gogo, and Mog.

However, in Chrono Trigger, I can't think of any character that didn't have a reasonable amount of development, except maybe Robo, but given that he's a robot, that's a bit understandable (and even he has a bit, at least the same amount Shadow gets).

Like I said, I know you don't agree, you feel they're all fleshed out, and that's fine. But I don't feel that way, I feel the character development all around is poor, one of the reasons why Chrono Cross is only a good, and not a great, game, and the reason why Chrono Trigger wins out over it in the end.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Gau, Umaro, Gogo, and Mog.

I guess I do understand Umaro and Gogo. Both of them are more or less "secret" characters, you could go through the entire game not knowing of their existence. I like having Gogo as a total mystery. Mog I guess I kind of understand. Cause well, nothing so special about him. He lived with other moogles all his life, blah blah blah.

Gau is a little different. To me, I felt that it was pretty cool that his past is only revealed a little bit. And when you meet his father, he doesn't say go "Woah! Gau is my son!" and have some big flashback or something. I suppose it would of been a little bit cooler to learn more about him, but that would reveal the mystery around him. And I think if some things are left unrevealed, it adds to the coolness factor.

The way I see it, you learn each character's past a bit, then you learn how they are together. United as a group, against the Empire/Kefka.

Btw I felt that Shadow had good character development. Dreams + Dysfunctional Relationship with Relm = Kewl.

[indyrocker]

Give me duck hunt any day of the week.

[Myoti]

In relation to Chrono Trigger and FFVI, I'm thinking a comparison of "OP vs. Naruto," but I'll refrain for the time being... (especially since this has gone off-topic enough already).

However, in Chrono Trigger, I can't think of any character that didn't have a reasonable amount of development, except maybe Robo, but given that he's a robot, that's a bit understandable (and even he has a bit, at least the same amount Shadow gets).

Even Robo had development, it just wasn't as direct (i.e., his sidequests).

My favorite part of FF6 must be the boss battles alone, as I think it's simply the best Boss Battle music anywhere. Pumps you up.

The Boss Music for FFVI was actually what got me into FF (though it was before I played any FFs; long story). The battles themselves, how ever, I don't find to be quite as impressive. Sure, I can understand why they had to have them be still sprites and all, but CT probably had just me that DID move and felt much more interactive and fun. Also, I believe you were given more "option" in how you went through some of the battles.

[Hittokiri04]

What do u guys think about the new Mario game on the DS based on the old Super Mario Bros? I haven't played this new Mario but the old rocked in my opinion.

[Tommy]

Um....I guess that's....sorta relevant.

It's almost the same as the old Mario games with better graphics which is what I've been waiting for for awhile. The extra features or sorta pointless like the overadvertised GIANT MARIO! ZOMG!

But, I haven't enjoyed a Mario game this much since Mario 64.
I still think the best Mario game is the one for the GameBoy, "Six Golden Coins." I grew up with that game and have cleared it 100+ times. Awesome game.

[Myoti]

There's more to it than just being a "remake." It has better movement, new enemies and level styles, new powerups, etc., and the bosses are pretty fun (giant Goomba!!).

And for once Tom, I kinda agree with you. I loved the Six Golden Coins one (except for getting a Game Over and losing everything x_X ).

[Tommy]

And for once Tom, I kinda agree with you. I loved the Six Golden Coins one (except for getting a Game Over and losing everything x_X ).

We agreed to like One Piece.

The Game Over and losing everything never happened to me. It's not that I'm wicked good, I just played through on Easy Mode first about 6 times than tried normal. I made it through a lot of times without dying at all, so I don't mind that feature.

[Myoti]

Okay, I agree twice then. XD

I... don't recall a difficulty setting on Mario Land 2. That's wierd. o_O

[Shinja]

river city ransom is probaly the best classic game ever, and one that gets very little attention too

[Tommy]

Okay, I agree twice then. XD

I... don't recall a difficulty setting on Mario Land 2. That's wierd. o_O

Yeah, I think you pressed Select in the room with the Tubes where you load and you can play your file on Easy Mode.

[Radical Dreamer]

I also didn't like how Chrono was a silent protagonist. I generally perfer characters to have their own lines. Earthbound is another fantastic RPG with a silent protagonist.

Actually, I always preferred the silent protagonist to the talkative one (my exception is Squall, he can talk all he wants. XD), mostly because if the protagonist couldn't talk, he couldn't make an idiot out of himself. *COUGHCOUGHTidusofFFXCOUGHCOUGH* XD But whatever, to each his own in that regard.

[Locke]

Old school is being able to argue about old games and actually have played them. But actually, the TRUE old schoolers were not the kids who got Mario for Christmas but the ones who downloaded (and uploaded) games through telephone wires on The Pirate Bay.

Or you have a copy of Zombies ate my neighbors like I did. W/e comes first.

[uc pseudonym]

Well, there has been quite a bit of discussion since I last logged on, so this will be a long post. To start out, more reasons I thought FFV was good.

For one, I believe it is the first game in the series to have secret optional bosses. Omega and that dragon aren't as difficult as the Weapons in FFVII, perhaps, but they're rather difficult in both raw strength and strategy. They also give you special tokens for beating them, much like Nemesis in FFX.

Also, though multiple endings aren't popular for this series, FFV does have a variable ending based on who is alive at the end of the final battle. Personally I didn't like this, as one Grand Cross (special attack that causes various status effects including death and stone) can ruin your ending if it comes at the wrong time. But it did provide a bit more interest. Also, I like how the game makes it clearer that "death" in battle is different from real death. One character dies and the others try to use Phoenix Downs at the like to no effect.

And besides, the last fight in FF6, you can have 12 people fight in the last battle (not at once. Groups of 4)

Really? I never had anyone except my original party involved unless someone was dead at the end of a segment, and that only happened when the boss kills a person as it dies. (Also, I want to note that the final boss of FFVI is ridiculously like the final boss of FFV except for the Kefka stage.)

In how many other games can you fight Magus (with that incredibly awesome music, by the way)?

I want to mention that I think this is one of my favorite parts of the game. You've gone through a fairly difficult dungeon and you reach the dark room, then as you walk forward blue flames light up until you reach Magus - very effective.

I like having Gogo as a total mystery.

No, Gogo is Adlai Stevenson. [If anyone doesn't get this, I'll have to find the relevent information and post it.]

In relation to Chrono Trigger and FFVI, I'm thinking a comparison of "OP vs. Naruto," but I'll refrain for the time being... (especially since this has gone off-topic enough already).

Heh. I agree with you on the former issue though I doubt I would on the latter, but we can let it go.

I still think the best Mario game is the one for the GameBoy, "Six Golden Coins." I grew up with that game and have cleared it 100+ times. Awesome game.

It was alright. But in my opinion the majority of it was too easy to be much fun and the difficult parts were mostly just annoying. The exception is Wario's castle, which is a very challenging level.

[Myoti]

Agreed with UC's statements on FFV (though I wasn't aware of the multiple endings).

Heh. I agree with you on the former issue though I doubt I would on the latter, but we can let it go.

I've been in so many unbeliveably off-topic threads, I guess I'm never really sure. =p

It was alright. But in my opinion the majority of it was too easy to be much fun and the difficult parts were mostly just annoying. The exception is Wario's castle, which is a very challenging level.

The final level also seemed to me to be one of the most impressive Mario levels at the time. There was just something about going up each floor and facing all those unique challenges that just endlessly amused me (especially the part with the Wario balls near the end).

[Radical Dreamer]

The final level also seemed to me to be one of the most impressive Mario levels at the time. There was just something about going up each floor and facing all those unique challenges that just endlessly amused me (especially the part with the Wario balls near the end).

Yeah...yeah, I gave up on that one when it made me lose all my six coins that I had spent who-knows-how-long collecting. XD Fun game though, besides all that.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Actually UC. I believe Final Fantasy 4 has some optional bosses and side-quests (Not really secret though)

And of course Gogo is Adlai Stevenson!
[spoiler]Actually, they debunked that theory. Check wikipedia![/spoiler]

[MasterDias]

Actually UC. I believe Final Fantasy 4 has some optional bosses and side-quests (Not really secret though)

I think it had some sort of sidequests, but I don't think it had a "superboss," not until the GBA remake anyhow.

Also, though multiple endings aren't popular for this series, FFV does have a variable ending based on who is alive at the end of the final battle. Personally I didn't like this, as one Grand Cross (special attack that causes various status effects including death and stone) can ruin your ending if it comes at the wrong time.

That's interesting. I wasn't aware of this either.

I'm glad to see that there are others who enjoyed FFV. It is usually overlooked in the series. I also like the class system.

I like having Gogo as a total mystery.

Gogo and Umaro were bonus characters. Quite pointless in the overall plot but that does admittingly make it somewhat forgiveable that they have no development.
I never really used them much anyway. I'm not particularly fond of the mime class, and Umaro's uncontrolability didn't really help his usability to me.

You can only seriously develop a small amount of people anyway in something like this, which is why the average RPG has between 4-8 characters. FFVI has 14.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I never really used them much anyway. I'm not particularly fond of the mime class, and Umaro's uncontrolability didn't really help his usability to me.

I always use Gogo, simply because he/she/it can use any skill of any character.

Being able to use Lores + Tools + Magic = I like

[Myoti]

I'm not particularly fond of the mime class,

Ultima + [item thing that lets you double magic] + Gogo = =D

[uc pseudonym]

Actually UC. I believe Final Fantasy 4 has some optional bosses and side-quests (Not really secret though)

I suppose my language was inspecific. By those standards, most of the games have optional bosses (in FFV Gogo, Odin, Bahamut and plenty of others are all optional bosses). What I meant was especially hard ones.

And of course Gogo is Adlai Stevenson!

Are you referencing this?I know, but I don't really care. I doubt anyone has ever seriously thought the designers intended such a thing. But I admit it would be funnier if it was a true coincidence.

That's interesting. I wasn't aware of this either.

Basically, anyone fallen at the end of the battle doesn't make it out of the Void when everyone is escaping. Then the scenes specifically related to them don't appear. But that's actually taken from the internet, as I've only done the final battle and I made certain to keep everyone alive constantly.

I always use Gogo, simply because he/she/it can use any skill of any character.

Being able to use Lores + Tools + Magic = I like

That's understandable. But personally, I'm not fond of the Mime class either. By the end of that game I didn't use any skills but Ultima or the 8-attacks trick anyway (though I did occasionally use Gogo to mimic double-casting it).

[MasterDias]

I generally prefer to use characters who have their own unique skills, instead of one who basically copies someone else's.

[Bobtheduck]

I agree. I also think that Trigger has a ton going for it in the way of epic battles and the like. I mean, come on. In how many other games can you fight Magus (with that incredibly awesome music, by the way)? Or fight alongside Froggy?

I'm not denying trigger was a great game, but I highly doubt that magus and frog are requirements for an epic game... I found the magus castle scene to be very nice, but I also loved the transformation to the world of ruin in FF6 (yes, I played through to the merged worlds in FF5, I thought the transformation to the world of ruin was better)

As for a comparison between 5 and 6:

5 - 4 Characters, one death and one replacement...
6 - No set main character (You start with Terra, but she isn't even needed in the world of ruin) and a few optional deaths...
CT - A set main character, but an expendable one in the end...
7 - A set main character, and set secondary characters with the exception of Vincent and Yuffie, because all of those characters had to be in the cut scenes... the Prerendered cutscenes put limits on what they could do with the characters

5 - Class Change system... Not really new, just beefed up from 3.
6 - Magicite system combined with set classes... Before that, it was either one or the other (set class or class change) never a combination of set classes and learned magic
CT - Set classes as it were, though everyone could use magic. Special abilities were limited to techs, but the introduction of the teamwork (double and triple techs) is something I think was new in CT
7 - Materia system... All one needed to do to give someone new abilities was give them the materia... Everyone was the same in the end, except for the limit breaks...

5 - The same graphical system as FF4, which is only the smallest logical upgrade from the NES era
6 - a graphic overhaul... Double high sprites with greater range of emotion,
CT - Another graphic overhaul. Highly animated sprites, definately one of the best for the 16 bit era
7 - First generation CG on prerendered backgrounds... The backgrounds look rather simplistic now, and the in-game characters looked simplistic THEN... Reminds me, a bit, of the transition between aliens and alien³. It looked vaguely impressive back then, but it didn't hold up... It was very bad computer animation and doesn't really hold up... Even though I haven't brought 8 up yet, I think by the time 8 rolled around, it was good enough to stand up even now, even though we've obviously progressed since then. The dance still looks impressive to me. So, while 6 and CT were at the greater end of the 2d sprite scale, FF7 was at the low end of the 3d scale... The graphics became a novelty

All final fantasy games except maybe 1 and 3 have talking main characters... They have some sort of personality, wheras Crono is blank... He's a silent protagonist, and I felt NO connection to him whatsoever... The blank hero is not an effective storytelling tool... I have to bring up eternal sunshine of the spotless mind... Few people would be able to connect with Crono, but despite being a very specific (to the point of being quirky) character, many many men connected with Joel on Eternal Sunshine... You're more likely to connect with a realistic character than a blank one. This is one area I like the ff series better than either of the Chrono games...

[Radical Dreamer]

All final fantasy games except maybe 1 and 3 have talking main characters... They have some sort of personality, wheras Crono is blank... He's a silent protagonist, and I felt NO connection to him whatsoever... The blank hero is not an effective storytelling tool... I have to bring up eternal sunshine of the spotless mind... Few people would be able to connect with Crono, but despite being a very specific (to the point of being quirky) character, many many men connected with Joel on Eternal Sunshine... You're more likely to connect with a realistic character than a blank one. This is one area I like the ff series better than either of the Chrono games...

Well, it really all comes down to personal taste anyways, but I actually felt like Crono (and Serge as well) was a fun character. Sure, neither of them ever said anything (well, Crono did, but that's not the point), but I feel like there's a little more...flexibility with what you want the character to think. I dunno, somehow, I find it impressive when a games creator's can get a character's emotions to carry across without using words, but only by using the words of others and that character's body language and motions (Serge especially). So yeah, it's really just a matter of opinion, but I felt like I could connect with both Serge and Crono on some level.

[uc pseudonym]

I generally prefer to use characters who have their own unique skills, instead of one who basically copies someone else's.

This can be inconvenient at times, such as when the last used skill was worthless (because you can't set everything up) or when he starts a battle. I prefer characters that can end a normal battle in the first turn if necessary.

As for a comparison between 5 and 6:

I have no real desire to say one is better than the other, but I am going to make assorted comments based on your points.

A set main character, but an expendable one in the end...

That's true, but who doesn't get Crono back when seriously playing? The Rainbow is the best weapon at normal levels and Luminaire is a great attack if his Magic attribute is very high. He also has the highest damage potential because he has an attack that hits four times (39,996 damage is enough to kill anything in the game, I believe).

5 - Class Change system... Not really new, just beefed up from 3.

For me, it was that upgrade that made the system enjoyable. Being able to mix and match skills with classes was a new wrinkle that made it more interesting.

6 - Magicite system combined with set classes... Before that, it was either one or the other (set class or class change) never a combination of set classes and learned magic

Actually, I didn't like the system in FF6. After every character had learned Arise, Ultima, and Curaga (which didn't take that long), there wasn't anything else that mattered greatly.

The blank hero is not an effective storytelling tool...

I definitely agree here. Any game that has real plot should have a real protagonist.

[Nate]

Any game that has real plot should have a real protagonist.

I agree, to an extent, but many games I love seem to have the "silent protagonist." Chrono Trigger/Cross, Dragon Quest VIII, and Legend of Legaia...though the last one is debatable, Vahn doesn't talk text-wise but he DOES talk a lot in battle.

Anyway, though, the Zelda games have always had Link as a silent protagonist, even the two masterpieces Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time. So I think a silent protagonist really doesn't make a game bad, if the rest of the story is awesome.

Also, remember Mario didn't talk in Super Mario RPG, which led to a lot of amusing comments like Toad saying "Why the silent treatment, Mario?" or Mario having to play charades every time he wanted to explain something.

[uc pseudonym]

I agree, to an extent, but many games I love seem to have the "silent protagonist."

There are definitely games I enjoy with that element (Chrono Trigger among them), but I don't feel that is a particular strength of those games.

Anyway, though, the Zelda games have always had Link as a silent protagonist, even the two masterpieces Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time. So I think a silent protagonist really doesn't make a game bad, if the rest of the story is awesome.

Actually, I had Legend of Zelda in mind when I wrote the "real plot" part. I think a silent protagonist works well in those games, but I wouldn't say they have a real plot. That is, they are mostly quests with a basic story. There aren't too many plot twists and the characters don't have to be fleshed out in the same way. Perhaps I should have used the adjective "character-oriented."

Also, remember Mario didn't talk in Super Mario RPG, which led to a lot of amusing comments like Toad saying "Why the silent treatment, Mario?" or Mario having to play charades every time he wanted to explain something.

Heh, I guess I think this one does work with a silent protagonist. Perhaps this is because of the humorous tone overall, or perhaps because of the fact that Mario has somewhat of a personality (and communicates in other ways) so he is merely silent, not blank.