Honey & Clover!

[Mangafanatic]

Haha, we are turning this from a Honey and Clover thread to a "let's bash
Takemoto and Mayama" thread. XD

I'm so proud of us for devoting ourselves to such an admirable goal!

*Is devilishly tempted to use her mad mod skillz to change the thread title to "Let's bask Takemoto and Mayama [T3H sT4lk3r]"!*

The one redeemable aspect of episode four, though, is the fact that it looked alot more like the Honey and Clover of last season. The art was almost exactly what I've come to expect from the show. Let's just hope they keep that up.

Also, is anyone else worried that we're a third of the way through with the new season and we haven't really had any development of the Hagu/Morita/Takemoto triangle. If we end another season with no real closure of that relationship delimna, I will be irked to no end. I want CLOSURE! CLOSURE, I TELL YOU! My little female heart can't take all the tension! *Osaka and her little female heart stomp off to find metal objects to sharpen.*

[lj1958]

All right...I know I'm not the typical CAA poster, being a middle age mom and all that (my children are more the typical poster age being 13 and 17)...but I sampled a few episodes of this show recently, and I can't believe that none of you are bothered as I was by the depiction of Hagu.

I'm not one to nitpick on the typical anime depiction of a 15 or 16 year old girl being romantically paired with a guy in his mid twenties because 1) it's fiction and 2) in earlier cultures that was very typical (of course, in those earlier cultures, those girls typically weren't dating, they were pushed into marriage).

But Hagu...she looks pre-pubescent, like a doggone American Girl doll. Yes, I know the character is supposed to be 18, but she looks...9? 10? It really, really bothers me to see grown men physically attracted to her. It seems to be taking the Moe thing to an extreme.

[Kawaiikneko]

Ugh, I'm not looking forward to episode 4 now T_T

Honestly l never thought of the guys' attraction to Hagu like that. While she may look young she is in her 20s and its not like the guys thinks she's a kid. One of the things I believe really attracts Morita and Takemoto to Hagu is her talent and passion for art. Anyhow, she does mature from the shy little girl she was in the first episode.

[Mangafanatic]

All right...I know I'm not the typical CAA poster, being a middle age mom and all that (my children are more the typical poster age being 13 and 17)...but I sampled a few episodes of this show recently, and I can't believe that none of you are bothered as I was by the depiction of Hagu.

I'm not one to nitpick on the typical anime depiction of a 15 or 16 year old girl being romantically paired with a guy in his mid twenties because 1) it's fiction and 2) in earlier cultures that was very typical (of course, in those earlier cultures, those girls typically weren't dating, they were pushed into marriage).

But Hagu...she looks pre-pubescent, like a doggone American Girl doll. Yes, I know the character is supposed to be 18, but she looks...9? 10? It really, really bothers me to see grown men physically attracted to her. It seems to be taking the Moe thing to an extreme.

I understand where you're come from. The first episode or so, I thought that was weird, but after seeing more of it, I don't feel that way anymore, mostly because:

Hagu is 19, and neither Takemoto nor Morita are more than a year or two her senior. Yes, she does looks young. Quite young, but she grows up as the show progresses. Personally, I think that's a great deal of this show's charm is the evolution of Hagu. I don't really think this show plays the "Moe" element at all. Morita admires Hagu for her artistic brilliance, and Takemoto for her sweetness. And yes, she is cute. Very cute, but I don't hold that against her.

I don't really see any reason to be bothered by Hagu. After completing the first season, I honestly don't see her as a "little person" anymore. When I watch this show, Hagu is every inch an adult, capable of having adult, romantic relationships. By the end of the season, Hagu is making choices to strike out on her own. She's making decisions about who she wants to be with. She's very gracefully handling very complex feelings. Hagu is a very admirable young woman, in my view.

There's my two yen! And I'm very sorry to have disappointed you in anyway in my opinions about the show. I do realize that some shows aren't for everyone, and I will do my very best to re-examine myself to be sure this show doesn't, in some way, dishonor God in its protrayal of Hagu.

[lj1958]

Thanks for your perspective, Kawaiikneko and Mangafanatic. I know it's difficult to judge an anime on just two or three episodes. I just thought it was odd that I didn't see anything about that aspect of the show in the discussion here or on some secular anime boards, when it really stood out to me.

[Mangafanatic]

Thanks for your perspective, Kawaiikneko and Mangafanatic. I know it's difficult to judge an anime on just two or three episodes. I just thought it was odd that I didn't see anything about that aspect of the show in the discussion here or on some secular anime boards, when it really stood out to me.

Yeah, I think you don't see much discussion of "moe" in Honey and Clover, mostly because you really quit seeing Hagu in the same light as the show progresses. Her biggest character strength is her artistic brilliance, not her cuteness. While they do play a lot of jokes off of Hagu's baby face, it's not what her character is all about.

[MyrrhLynn]

You know there is a rare disease that causes some people to not grow beyond around 13 years old looking. I can't remember what it is called, but now I suddenly find myself wondering if maybe Hagu is suppose to have this? Well anyway I agree with what has been said, yes at first it is wierd seeing Hagu since she is so young looking, but she has really matured as the series progress and I don't find it wierd at all for her to have romantic relationships. The depth of her art alone shows how mature she is, even if she has no common sense about some things still XD

About the whole Morita, Hagu, and Takemoto triangle...
[spoiler]
I think we have seen quite a few subtle hints at this relationship.

1. Mortia doesn't really treat Hagu any different since he kissed he, and has no problem teasing her still. (I still think its' wierd that he teases Hagu who he obviously liked but he doesn't tease Yamada.)

2. After Tekemoto helped her with her hicups we find out that this is the first time she has really talked to him since he confessed.

3. After the Takemoto hicup scene Hagu goes back to the art room and cries. What could this mean? That she is overwhelmed and doesn't know what to feel?

4. When Morita is talking with his brother he daydreams an image of Hagu, but then Takemoto joins her. Does this mean Morita is giving up? Or that he realizes those two are going to be together? Also after the whole hicup scene with Hagu, he could have started chasing her again or teasing her since we see him sitting on the ground sort of pouting, but he didn't go after her...
[/spoiler]

And yes I was very happy to see the animation style solidly back to normal in episode 4. Hopefully it will be more of the same for episode 5!

[muskrat]

Haha, we are turning this from a Honey and Clover thread to a "let's bash Takemoto and Mayama" thread. XD

I kind of like Takemoto. I think I identify with him more than any other character, so I'm a little biased.

He's too prone to suddenly ramble off into monologues that are incredibly boring and pointless.

I agree with you on that. He rambles in his head (and maybe out loud) but I think thats more of the writers style than a character trait.

[Tommy]

Hagu is 19, and neither Takemoto nor Morita are more than a year or two her senior. Yes, she does looks young.

Actually Mangafanatic........you're wrong. I thought you were the biggest Honey and Clover fan. Morita was 24 at the start of the series. He attended the art school 6 years in a row because he always slept late.

[Mangafanatic]

Actually Mangafanatic........you're wrong. I tohught you were the biggest Honey and Clover fan. Morita was 24 at the start of the series. He attended the art school 6 years in a row because he always slepy late.

Just because I'm the biggest fan doesn't make me infallable.

And remember, Tom, I make mistakes just to prove I can. XD

(Coincidentally, I stand corrected.)

[Puguni]

I kind of like Takemoto. I think I identify with him more than any other character, so I'm a little biased.

YES. I'm personally a Takemoto x Hagu person myself. Gosh, so much bashing... Takemoto is very much the nice next-door-neighbor type boy, the type that doesn't get the girls, so that's why I'm rooting for him. There was some naivety in the earlier episodes that I liked. Besides, the fact that he is more mature now makes me like him more. He may not be the most exciting person, but he's down to earth, and I like that. I rest my case. XD Did you see the way he took Morita down in ep 2? <3!


And about ep 4...I don't think I'll try to watch it, unless there's some crucial thing I need to know. Mayama is pretty scary now. >_<

[MyrrhLynn]

And about ep 4...I don't think I'll try to watch it, unless there's some crucial thing I need to know. Mayama is pretty scary now. >_<

Hummm....humm... well... Actually you learn more about Rika's past. Which isn't really that relevant to the main plot. Although it's wierd to see Rika talk so much (I swear it's more then she did in all of the first season.) The only big thing is:

[spoiler]
At the end of the episode (when Mayama is reading Rika's email again), he finds out that now she is looking for a 2-Bedroom apartment for that overseas trip, which means she is planning on taking him.

The episode pretty much focuse on Rika and her relationship with Mayama.
[/spoiler]

*bashes Takemoto*

You know I guess it doesn't help that I like Morita's voice actor waaaaay more then Takemotos.

[Tommy]

Am I the only supporter of the Mayama and Yamada relationship?

[Kawaiikneko]

I firmly think that the Mayama/Yamada relationship shouldn't happen if only because it would be cliche. Besides, Mayama has made it clear that he is not interesting in Yamada that way and for him to go to her now would be hypocritical, and I could only see it happening in an instance in which he's sad over Rika - in which place Yamada would only be a replacement. I'd much rather see Nomiya/Yamada. (so ep 3 made me happy)

edit: ew. yay for run on sentences <.<

[Puguni]

Hummm....humm... well... Actually you learn more about Rika's past. Which isn't really that relevant to the main plot. Although it's wierd to see Rika talk so much (I swear it's more then she did in all of the first season.) The only big thing is:

[spoiler]
At the end of the episode (when Mayama is reading Rika's email again), he finds out that now she is looking for a 2-Bedroom apartment for that overseas trip, which means she is planning on taking him.

The episode pretty much focuse on Rika and her relationship with Mayama.
[/spoiler]

Wait, doesn't she mention that already in the third episode? I thought they went over that. And personally,

[spoiler]
I hope Mayama leaves temporarily, so Nomiya can take more of a role. :3
[/spoiler]

[Mangafanatic]

Wait, doesn't she mention that already in the third episode? I thought they went over that. And personally,

[spoiler]
I hope Mayama leaves temporarily, so Nomiya can take more of a role. :3
[/spoiler]

Well, you see, it does mention that in episode three, but in episode four we learn that [spoiler]Rika was actually lying to Mayama just to keep him happy. She was actually looking for a one bedroom apartment, and, through reading her e-mail, he discovers this and confronts her after all the fornication. Uh, yeah, if you knew she was such a liar, THEN WHY DID YOU SLEEP WITH HER!? Argh. Makes me mad.[/spoiler]

[Kawaiikneko]

grr I may have to break down and download solar's version if c1 is going to be so slow. Episode five is already out! On the other hand c1's version has less cussing *debating*

[Mangafanatic]

grr I may have to break down and download solar's version if c1 is going to be so slow. Episode five is already out! On the other hand c1's version has less cussing *debating*

Aside from the Unicorns (Which were pretty funny, unfortunately), there really hasn't been much language that I've noticed. So, I think you'd probably be pretty safe either way.

[MyrrhLynn]

Aside from the Unicorns (Which were pretty funny, unfortunately), there really hasn't been much language that I've noticed. So, I think you'd probably be pretty safe either way.

Yeah the unicorns was the major point they differed on. I downloaded Solar for episode 4 and I didn't notice excessive swearing. Really technically the unicorns actually were swearing, so C1 was editing it out. And Solar translated Nomiya's lines as "This is the pits." Whereas C1 said "This sucks." So... they are pretty comparable.

Oh one other "important" thing from episode 4 is we learn Rika had a big white dog when she was growing up. (Yes, soooo important to the overal plot, don't you think?)

:Edit: After watching episode 5 - All I have to say is "YAMADA AND NOMIYA FOREVER!!!!!1111" (Oh and I still don't like Takemoto )

...Now that I think about it... why weren't the unicorns in this episode?

[Mangafanatic]

:Edit: After watching episode 5 - All I have to say is "YAMADA AND NOMIYA FOREVER!!!!!1111" (Oh and I still don't like Takemoto )

Oh, girl, sign me up for the fangirling for that pair. I never thought I'd want her with anyone but Morita (because I <3 him, and, unfortunately, I don't think the mangaka wants him to end up with Hagu) or Mayama (mostly because we was so in love with him, and I just want her to be happy), but now-- I am all about Nomya. That man is one severely awesome guy. I loved when he said [spoiler]Why doesn't that adolescent call me!?[/spoiler] I completely cracked up.

...Now that I think about it... why weren't the unicorns in this episode?

I think because their princess' chasity wasn't in danger. XD Last time, they were in the same room together, erego, the unicorn came to protect the innocence of young Yamada. It's too bad, though. I like those unicorns.

I still want one.

Okay, I was worried before. Now I'm terrible troubled. Does anyone else get the feeling we're not gonna get some form of closure on the Hagu/Morita/Takemoto triangle!? They've barely done anything with them and the season's almost half over! Darn it! I'm gonna have to give a stern talking to to the director if he lets this thing end without putting that "?" to rest.

[Puguni]

:Edit: After watching episode 5 - All I have to say is "YAMADA AND NOMIYA FOREVER!!!!!1111" (Oh and I still don't like Takemoto )

Yaaah! >< *pokes MyrrhLynn* I thought of a reason why Takemoto and Hagu should be together. I think she needs stability more than anything, and Morita's random nature isn't going to help. Takemoto would provide awesome support.

But yes. Nomiya and Yamada! *cheers* Honestly, when Nomiya first came, I thought they were going to depict him as this major playboy, but now that's turning out to be Mayama's thing. >_>

[MyrrhLynn]

Oh, girl, sign me up for the fangirling for that pair. I never thought I'd want her with anyone but Morita (because I <3 him, and, unfortunately, I don't think the mangaka wants him to end up with Hagu) or Mayama (mostly because we was so in love with him, and I just want her to be happy), but now-- I am all about Nomya. That man is one severely awesome guy. I loved when he said [spoiler]Why doesn't that adolescent call me!?[/spoiler] I completely cracked up.

Yay! A fellow fangirl! ]I think because their princess' chasity wasn't in danger. XD Last time, they were in the same room together, erego, the unicorn came to protect the innocence of young Yamada. It's too bad, though. I like those unicorns.

I still want one.[/quote]
Oh me too. Actually a whole fleet of them like Yamada has would be even more fun. XD They better show up again or I'm going to be dissappointed!

Okay, I was worried before. Now I'm terrible troubled. Does anyone else get the feeling we're not gonna get some form of closure on the Hagu/Morita/Takemoto triangle!? They've barely done anything with them and the season's almost half over! Darn it! I'm gonna have to give a stern talking to to the director if he lets this thing end without putting that "?" to rest.

Did you watch the preview? I think the next episode is going to reveal a LOT more about Morita, which will most likely be a big step towards what will happen with that relationship. Morita has shown several times that whatever he and his brother are earning money for is more important to him then anything else (including Hagu).

But yes. Nomiya and Yamada! *cheers* Honestly, when Nomiya first came, I thought they were going to depict him as this major playboy, but now that's turning out to be Mayama's thing. >_>

He WAS a playboy at first. Remember how in the first season he threw his cell phone in the ocean when his "girlfriend" asked him if work was more important then her? And I know Miwako has said that he is less smug now then he used to be. It's almost like Yamada is making him less mature. XD

And now, after watching episode 5 I just had to make some avatars for this series, since the expressions are so much fun. They aren't fancy but oh well. Here's the girl ones (I'll put the guy ones up on Daystar eventually). If you want to see more, hurry up and post (since the attachement limit is 3 this is all I can post now) XD

[Tommy]

I don't like Nomiya.

BTW, is Honey and CLover II a sequel series or just the next season?
I haven't seen any of it yet since I'm trying to finish other stuff.

Also, for some reason up until Episode 10 (of the first series obviously) I thought Mayama was the main character(narrator) since he is the first one shown after the bicycle flashback.

[Puguni]

I don't like Nomiya.

BTW, is Honey and CLover II a sequel series or just the next season?
I haven't seen any of it yet since I'm trying to finish other stuff.

Also, for some reason up until Episode 10 (of the first series obviously) I thought Mayama was the main character(narrator) since he is the first one shown after the bicycle flashback.

It's both. They haven't really changed the plot; it's still the love triangles and stuff.

And after a while, you really can't tell who the main character is.


By the by, I heard tell that the manga was ending soon, as in, this year...or month. Since I'm a huge spoiler geek...I went ahead and looked. :X

[MyrrhLynn]

Wow, I find it a little amazing that someone could not like Nomiya. (although wow, is he ever a chain smoker!)

Okie more avatars...

[Mangafanatic]

Okay, if we're doing HachiKuro Avatars, I have to add mine in!

Don't you just love Miwako-chan?

[MyrrhLynn]

What no one said anything about this week's episode yet?!?

[spoiler]
After it was over I was like: "WHAT!?!? That is why the Morita brothers are earning money?!? That is so lame!" Well at least it's kind of lame. And I thought their Dad was an artist or something not a scientist. Why in the world do they want the company back anyway? It's not like either one of them are scientists.

Also it seems like Morita was the favored child. (beats me why)

Oh well we had some Hagu romantic stuff in there too. Although after the whole beach fantasize thing I am still a Takemoto hater. If the series wasn't prone to letting us know about his boring/strange thoughts and/or internal monologues I would like him a lot more. And the idiot was working on his dumb tower project when he had a prime moment to go and check on Hagu and help her out. *kicks Takemoto*

[/spoiler]

[Puguni]

What no one said anything about this week's episode yet?!?

[spoiler]
After it was over I was like: "WHAT!?!? That is why the Morita brothers are earning money?!? That is so lame!" Well at least it's kind of lame. And I thought their Dad was an artist or something not a scientist. Why in the world do they want the company back anyway? It's not like either one of them are scientists.

Also it seems like Morita was the favored child. (beats me why)

Oh well we had some Hagu romantic stuff in there too. Although after the whole beach fantasize thing I am still a Takemoto hater. If the series wasn't prone to letting us know about his boring/strange thoughts and/or internal monologues I would like him a lot more. And the idiot was working on his dumb tower project when he had a prime moment to go and check on Hagu and help her out. *kicks Takemoto*

[/spoiler]

*roars* He's still my favorite character. Because I'm a spoiler freak, I went ahead and looked up how the manga would end, starting from where the fansubs leave off. Takemoto got so much cooler! After a certain event and at the end, I was in awe. In awe!! I love him to death now. XD

[Puguni]

Eeeeyaahhh!!! It's the Honey and Clover live action movie trailer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zKCkw89FdU

Hagu looks so cute!!! <3 <3 <3 I totally approve of her actress. *__* Ayuuu is so awesome too!!! Takemoto, not so much. ;_;

[MyrrhLynn]

[quote="Puguni"]Eeeeyaahhh!!! It's the Honey and Clover live action movie trailer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zKCkw89FdU

Hagu looks so cute!!! <3 <3 <3 I totally approve of her actress. *__* Ayuuu is so awesome too!!! Takemoto, not so much. ]
Wow... that was freaky. Especially the random petals that go flying though (although I guess that is kind of like the anime). Hagu didn't seem short enough to me. And somehow Morita has an earing now? o_o