"Christian Games" - What are they?

[mastersquirrel]

In response to the recently created Possible Ideas with Christian Videogaming Thread a question arose in my mind that has been there for a while, but just recently manifest itself again. The question is this: What exactly is a "Christian game"? What do you think of when you hear "Christian game"?

I've been wondering about this for a while now and I figured that I would pose the question to you, the members of CAA. What would you consider a Christian game? I don't want ideas for Christian games, I want to know what you would actually consider Christian games, and if you think that they'd be plausible.

I would also appreciate if anyone sees fit to pose a new question. I want this to be a kind of learning experience, to help me (and the other aspiring game developers of CAA) get an idea of what these "Christian games" are considered to be.

[Tommy]

Sadly in this day and age, Christian games involve no form of violence unless against some form of Demon if you're an Angel or something and they all come out and say: JESUS IS THE WAY!

I don't think Christian games exist, but I do think games can be made with Christian Principles.

[KBMaster]

I've seen Christian games, so they do exist. In fact I read in a gaming magazine how Christian games are coming to light.
I think a Christian game should have Christian principles without being preachy, so to speak. It doesn't have to be all politically correct and squeaky-clean so as to avoid controversy, but it should also be one that is suitable for Christians to play.

[Nate]

I agree with KBMaster, and we even cover this topic in the latest CAA Gamecast. *shameless plug*

As I said, the problem is different doctrinal beliefs in Christianity prevent a game that adheres to Christian beliefs from functioning properly. Unless you want different versions of the game (the Calvinist version! The Catholic version! The Baptist version! and so on). Given there is only one doctrine every branch of Christianity can agree on, and there isn't really any way to make a game off that doctrine.

First of all, a game has to be entertaining, by its nature. Since anything trying to incorporate Christianity is going to be cheesy at best (eat the "Fruit of the Spirit" to regain health!) or horribly offensive at the worst, I think the best Christian games can do is a couple of things.

Reinforce positive morals. While morals are not exclusive to Christianity, and not even the biggest part of our beliefs, they are still present, and reinforcing them is not a bad thing. This would be fairly easy to do.

Or, have a regular type game where the main character is a Christian. This seems to me to be the more logical choice. Though obviously doctrinal beliefs would have to be kept out of it, the faith in Christ would be able to be openly displayed/discussed, and that's a good start.

[Bobtheduck]

I once had a post on here (2003, I believe) that was about this very topic, and I gave the best explanation I'd ever given, and it was like or 4 pages long...

What makes a Christian game? That term is simply too... unpleasant to use, so...

Well, I'd say a good Christian game would be something cinematic. The idea of delegating the Christian points to mechanics in the game are next to impossible... At least if you don't want it to be cheesy... So, I'm thinking along the lines of metal gear solid. The metal gear games have been platforms for philosophy, and quite effective ones in my opinion (I think it's effective if they can get 1000 people talking about it, and they've done that at least, for sure)

So, issues of forgiveness, self control, and self sacrifice can all be dealt with in narrative. The game itself may be millitary or police or even something non-violent (which is much harder to make) but the mechanics of it could only really reach the "good samaritan" level for Christian doctrine, but otherwise neutral... What would be the Christian doctrine parts would be the forgiveness, to avoid revenge (games are permeated with revenge...) and things like that, and the message can be introduced in small pieces...

FPS and RTS games wouldn't make good Christian games, because they are mechanically heavy and narratively light... To incorporate praying, for instance, into the mechanics reduces it to magic, and to incorporate a Dungeons and Dragons style alignment system (seemingly a popular idea among Christians now) that is one dimensional and rigid is very contrary to the Bible, so that is a bad idea...

It's not looking at those problems and being careless or just not really understanding games that has been the problem of many wannabe christian game developers... In all honesty, a Christian game is one that would take a rethinking of games as we know them... It would take something entirely new, and few people are willing, let alone able, to take something like that on... Besides that, a game's value for evangelstic purposes would require a culture that took games seriously, and right now that culture is NOT the US... In Japan, on the other hand, you have all sorts of other obsticles to overcome... So, this is a monumental task that would take lots of study, lots of prayer, lots of talent, and a lot of time and money...

There have been no good Christian games as of yet... I have to shake my head everytime another FPS or RTS is developed, and yet another angels vs demons... Angels, Demons, and the apocalypse are overplayed topics in Christian media, often going from concepts we don't understand and resulting in very surface, sensationalistic stories... There needs to be a reformation in Christian media...

[TriezGamer]

IF you wrote 4 pages that were as well thought out as the above, I'd like to see it.

[Myoti]

Or, have a regular type game where the main character is a Christian. This seems to me to be the more logical choice. Though obviously doctrinal beliefs would have to be kept out of it, the faith in Christ would be able to be openly displayed/discussed, and that's a good start.

FPS and RTS games wouldn't make good Christian games, because they are mechanically heavy and narratively light... To incorporate praying, for instance, into the mechanics reduces it to magic, and to incorporate a Dungeons and Dragons style alignment system (seemingly a popular idea among Christians now) that is one dimensional and rigid is very contrary to the Bible, so that is a bad idea...

The idea I've been working on features a non-Christian main character in a rather heavy sort of gameplay style (think RE4 meets Killer 7 and you're not far off). I'll admit, the idea features a bit of "pre-apocalyptic rapture," but it's not obvious at first and fits in the workings of the storyline (other than that, it doesn't really focus on one "demonination" or anything). :/

[mastersquirrel]

Last night I asked my Mom the question I've posed here and she stated that a Christian game would be one that "uplifted Christ". With this idea in mind, such game genres as FPS's and most RTS's would be ruled out for their violence and killing. My Mom even noted that such games with gameplay such as City of Heroes couldn't be considered Christian games since you "kill" people (sometimes the game says arrest or defeat, but it seems more like killing than anything else).

At this point the best places for Christian games would be learning games or RPGs which don't involve killing things. Or it could have undertones of Christian values such as Chronicles of Narnia (Mom mentioned this, though I forgot to point out that even in Chronicles of Narnia there is killing).

Anyway, I'm even more confused about what would be considered a Christian game, because it seems that the idea can be defined so many ways with different definitions being contrary to other definitions.

IF you wrote 4 pages that were as well thought out as the above, I'd like to see it.

I would as well.

[Myoti]

Even the Bible had killing. Killing that God commanded.

[Nate]

Exactly what Myoti said. No violence or killing? Better not read the Bible, then, because the Bible has LOADS of violence and killing.

And no offense, but I think the attitude your mom has is exactly the reason why Christian gaming is doomed to fail. So long as we continue to think violence and killing are taboo (when they make up pretty much the ENTIRE Old Testament), the games are going to be bland and dull.

Seriously, if Christians are worried about blood and violence, I really wonder what they're going to think when they see the wrath God lays upon the Earth in the final battle against Satan. I'm sure that's going to be plenty violent.

[mastersquirrel]

Y'know, now that I think about it, a while into the conversation after she'd said that about killing she did mention that the Bible had violence in response to my statement that many Christians don't want violence in video games. Maybe it just skipped her mind or something, though she obviosly hates games with violence in them (besides games with cartoony violence).

In any case, I agree. The Bible clearly has violence and killing in it, and many of the Christian thriller novels I enjoy reading so much have killing in them. I guess the reason people hate violence and killing in video games so much is because it's usually the player doing those things, though it's a big double standard when it's alright to have such things in Christian novels but it's not in Christian video games.

[uc pseudonym]

To the original post: when I think of a "Christian game" I pretty much think of a secular game with religious-looking powerups or a biblical setting.

But what a good Christian game should be... I'd much rather talk about that. I think that a Christian game is one that has a story in which the Christian themes are intrinsic to the plot. Perhaps one in which we see devout protagonists who deal with serious issues of faith as it relates and intertwines with the storyline, or one in which the very essence of the conflict is religious.

Well, I'd say a good Christian game would be something cinematic. The idea of delegating the Christian points to mechanics in the game are next to impossible... At least if you don't want it to be cheesy...

Quoted for truth.

Even the Bible had killing. Killing that God commanded.

I have two responses about that. One is that you make a good point: anyone who wants to condemn any portrayal of violence had better have an extremely good explanation of the Old Testament.

The other response is that I feel some of the assumptions behind your statement are untrue to scripture as a whole. Unfortunately, that gets into the realm of theological debate and not only is that against the rules, I'm exceedingly tired and disillusioned with discussion of the subject. Let me put it this way: I'm a pacifist, but I still think it is absurd for Christians to be so against violence in media. I play violent games and if I made a Christian one it would most certainly be violent. Most Christians object to video game violence on a gut level, not from any sort of theological backing.

[Myoti]

The other response is that I feel some of the assumptions behind your statement are untrue to scripture as a whole. Unfortunately, that gets into the realm of theological debate and not only is that against the rules, I'm exceedingly tired and disillusioned with discussion of the subject. Let me put it this way: I'm a pacifist, but I still think it is absurd for Christians to be so against violence in media. I play violent games and if I made a Christian one it would most certainly be violent. Most Christians object to video game violence on a gut level, not from any sort of theological backing.

No no, I wasn't meaning anything like that. I was giving an example (probably a bad generalizing one?) that there was "good" violence in a way, but no, that doesn't influence my decision to have "more violent" games or anything.

[mastersquirrel]

FPS ... games wouldn't make good Christian games, because they are mechanically heavy and narratively light.

Just a minor thing I forgot to point out earlier. Ever since I finished playing it I've thought that a Christian game that had a story line that was told in the fashion of Half-Life 2 then it could actually be really good, even allowing for pivotal moral decisions such as taking or not taking the lives of certain people. The problem yet again lies in much of the Christian group being dead-set against violence. I just thought I'd bring that up.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Just a minor thing I forgot to point out earlier. Ever since I finished playing it I've thought that a Christian game that had a story line that was told in the fashion of Half-Life 2 then it could actually be really good, even allowing for pivotal moral decisions such as taking or not taking the lives of certain people. The problem yet again lies in much of the Christian group being dead-set against violence. I just thought I'd bring that up.

Well..... Mastersquirrel you have a good point. I personally think Half-Life is the greatest FPS in all existence. It can be possible that something like that could work.

[Bobtheduck]

Well, I'm prejudicial of the idea of a Christian FPS, not due to the violence but due to the mechanical nature of the games. I think we shouldn't copy any working formula, but we should instead innovate... That has not, as of yet, been done...

One thing I ask, though... No more Angels vs Demons... Unless it's done in a way that people have not thought of... And a way that actually isn't cheesy... So, that's next to no possibility ("so you're saying there's a chance!")

[Myoti]

The idea I'm working has a possible allegory (no clue if that's even the right word) to "demons," but done in way that causes it to make "sense." Think Jurassic Park meets Alien meets Predator. Confused? Good. I'm getting somewhere then.

[Felix]

Well, think about it in the same sense of some christian books and movies. The product itself doesn't have to be up-front Christian or preachy, it can just be a positive game with good morals, that supports Christian belifes, is made by Christians, and is fun to play and exciting and all that jazz. Take Ted Dekker's "The Circle Trilogy" for example. Those books are not preachy at all, but have a consistent allegory to the story of Christianity, and are also loaded with action and violence. Appealing to the masses, but a great, postive, Christian book all the same.
That's my two bits anyway.

[mastersquirrel]

Well, think about it in the same sense of some christian books and movies. The product itself doesn't have to be up-front Christian or preachy, it can just be a positive game with good morals, that supports Christian belifes, is made by Christians, and is fun to play and exciting and all that jazz. Take Ted Dekker's "The Circle Trilogy" for example. Those books are not preachy at all, but have a consistent allegory to the story of Christianity, and are also loaded with action and violence. Appealing to the masses, but a great, postive, Christian book. Get it? I feel like I'm not making any sense o.O
That's my two bits anyway.

If you really do feel like you're not making sense then stop, you're making perfect sense (to me at least ). The Circle Trilogy really is a good example, I mean I can't remember a time in that series that he just came out and said that the other place was a play off of the story of Jesus, but you still get the idea. Plus you're very right, those books had quite a bit of violence and that goes back to my other point about how people feel different about video games from books.

Though truly I think you outline a very good description of what a Christian game should be. I just wish current Christian game creators would see that.

[Shuji]

At this day in age true christian games are few and far between, there are games with christian values out now, but none that rely specifically on god itself. Old examples of this would be spiritual warfare for the nes, one of the few very enjoyable christian games out there. The problem with christian games these days are that they almost (in my opinion) make christianity seem boring. For example a new game was just released simply entitled "The bible game" consists of going around doing chores and errands for people and answering bible trivia questions. While this is christian there is little to no fun factor in this game, unless you enjoy trivia. I believe games need to be created that emphasize how exciting bible times really were. This of course, remains to be seen.

[Felix]

If you really do feel like you're not making sense then stop, you're making perfect sense (to me at least ).

XD ok, well usually when I feel like I'm making no sense, it's when I'm on the verge, or already into something deep, haha, so I'm used to it.

Though truly I think you outline a very good description of what a Christian game should be. I just wish current Christian game creators would see that.

Thanks. Yeah, it is a shame. It just takes the right people to be behind it, I guess. Some of us programmer-type folk here at CAA should make our own game company someday XD That would rock.

At this day in age true christian games are few and far between, there are games with christian values out now, but none that rely specifically on god itself. Old examples of this would be spiritual warfare for the nes, one of the few very enjoyable christian games out there. The problem with christian games these days are that they almost (in my opinion) make christianity seem boring. For example a new game was just released simply entitled "The bible game" consists of going around doing chores and errands for people and answering bible trivia questions. While this is christian there is little to no fun factor in this game, unless you enjoy trivia. I believe games need to be created that emphasize how exciting bible times really were. This of course, remains to be seen.

Yeah! There could be all kinds of awesome games about like the palastinian wars and stuff like that. *imagines the david-goliath fight as a boss battle* Yeah...
There's lots of possibilities, though, seriously. The bible is chock full of good stuff that could be turned into an exciting video game.

[uc pseudonym]

I think we shouldn't copy any working formula, but we should instead innovate... That has not, as of yet, been done...

Right. I would say that a game must qualify as a good game before it qualify as a good "Christian game" and a significant part of that is innovation. That doesn't mean there can't be a Christian RPG vaguely like Final Fantasy, but if a secular version of the same game would be a FF knock-off, so will the Christian game.

One thing I ask, though... No more Angels vs Demons... Unless it's done in a way that people have not thought of... And a way that actually isn't cheesy... So, that's next to no possibility ("so you're saying there's a chance!")

It is a shame, because I am rather fond of this concept. However, because it has been so overused, I intend to stay away from this area for a long time. Even something that was done in a new way would probably get labelled along with all the rest.

[Bobtheduck]

I have no real problem with Angels and Demons as long as it is emphasised that Human beings are at fault for everything they do... that's why I'd want to express the demonic as an almost inanimate thing, such as chains or slime or something. If I did anything angelic, I would avoid anthropomorphizing it... The descriptions of angels in the Bible (not counting when they took human form) were very un-humanlike... So, I'd try to take what it says, at least about Cherubs and Seraphs (who knows what other angelic beings there may be) and extrapolate that without anthropomorphizing it... Or even avianomorphizing (would that be the word) it, which is another thing people do when they think of wings... I don't remember if there is any description of what the wings were built out of in the Bible... Does it ever say they had feathers?

Of course, a good way to avoid this would be to not do angels and demons at all, at least not for a while...