Left Behind - the game

[Killua]

Maybe u guys already know about this game, but I didn't see any topic about it here. Here's a link to a bit information about the game + a trailer and such:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/leftbehindeternalforces/index.html

I have never played any christian games, so I dunno what standard they usually have, but this really doesn't look too bad, I think.

What do you guys think?

[mastersquirrel]

While I think that it's great to see more Christian games coming out, and I think the basic premise of this game is interesting, when I look at some of the different features I must say that it causes me to raise an eyebrow in confusion.

For instance, if you read through the preview of the game they have there on Gamespot you see that in the game there's this thing called a spiritual rating. This rating rates how good or bad you are depending on what you do in-game, such as save people or kill civilians. Depending on what you do, your rating changes and you get closer to God's side of the Devil's side. Also, when your rating is close enough to one or the other's side, something happens such as angels come to help if you're on God's side or demons come and attack anything if you're on the Devil's side. More or less this bar seems like an RTS version of the Dark side/Light side meter from KOTOR (Knights of the Old Republic).

While this idea works well in the world of Star Wars, what with the Light and Dark sides of the force, it sends the wrong message about Christianity and turns it into a "Do good deeds to get on God's good side" thing. I realize that this is a game, and many people may think I'm looking too much into this, but if you're going to claim your game to be a Christian game, shouldn't it be more like you're serving God rather than trying to get Light Side points?

Anyway, that's my spiel, and though I may not like how they're implementing some things I'll probably end up getting the game anyway so that I can form a better opinion of it. Besides, I love RTSs, so I'm hoping for good things from this.

[Nate]

As I mentioned on our podcast, I also don't like the fact that prayer has been reduced to the level of magic in this game. Just something that personally irks me.

[Bobtheduck]

That's because christian game designers haven't learned to think outside of the box... honestly, hearing people talk about how a christian game should be made, it sounds like they really don't understand games at all... You can't copy something that worked for something else and expect it to work for your purposes, particularly when they are so different... We need some original thinkers in the game development world...

Mistake 1:

and it aims to bring morally just and family-friendly games to the masses.

The way to make a good Christian game is NOT to take something that has "bad morals" and "moralize" it...

Obviously, with a premise like that, Left Behind represents the latest in the Christian-themed video game movement, or as developer/publisher Left Behind Games puts it, the "inspirational games"

*sigh* The "inspirational" thing is really getting on my nerves...

I'll continue this later... I'm just waiting for the "To End All Wars" of christian games to be released... I may have to be the one to do it...

[ClosetOtaku]

I have nothing good to say about the "Left Behind" series of books, and therefore am not surprised to see further exploitation through a silly arcade game. If Christianity took half the effort it spends on eschatology and obsessing about the anti-Christ and instead focused on its mission of caring for those who truly need it, we might actually accomplish something in line with what God intended for us in the first place.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Yeah, I want to see Christian games with the quality of gameplay found in the Thief stealth series!

[Tommy]

I have nothing good to say about the "Left Behind" series of books, and therefore am not surprised to see further exploitation through a silly arcade game. If Christianity took half the effort it spends on eschatology and obsessing about the anti-Christ and instead focused on its mission of caring for those who truly need it, we might actually accomplish something in line with what God intended for us in the first place.

While I do have things wrong with this game, I see nothing wrong with the books. Could you please explain what's wrong with the book?

It's just a fictional story picturing what the end times will be like. There's nothing wrong with that, in fact, he helps us.

[Myoti]

I go with what the others say. Still haven't quite gotten it yet...

Be on a lookout for my games in the future. I WILL have at least one "Christian" game, but you'll probably have to look closely to catch on.

[jon_jinn]

hmmm...sounds pretty interesting. hope it turns out good. then they might start to make other stuff based on left behind. maybe even a manga. now that'd be pretty sweet.

[Tommy]

I have already read the Left Behind graphic novel series.

[Arnobius]

While I do have things wrong with this game, I see nothing wrong with the books. Could you please explain what's wrong with the book?

It's just a fictional story picturing what the end times will be like. There's nothing wrong with that, in fact, he helps us.

Well sort of. As I understand it it is a Premillinialist Dispensationalist Rapture interpretation of The Bible that tends to be hostile to certain denominations and beliefs. If that's what you believe in, it wouldn't bother you. But if you did not accept that interpretation of the Bible or belonged to a denomination LaHaye treats poorly then you might tend to be offended by the material or the way it was handled.

However I think saying more than that might potentially start a theological debate and get the thread locked.

[Nate]

Could you please explain what's wrong with the book?

I have never personally read the books, so I can only go on what I've heard, which is that the writing is poor, and the series is being "dragged out" so that they can continue writing books.

Beyond that, the author (authors?) make a lot of assumptions about the end times. You have to remember that as far as eschatology goes, there are multiple viewpoints. Some people (such as myself) don't believe in a rapture, there are those that adhere to Millennialism, and those that adhere to Amillennialsim. There are even Preterists, who believe all Scripture concerning the Apocalypse (including Revelation) were fulfilled in the first century, and even in Preterists there are different levels of beliefs (some believe that we are still awaiting a new Earth, some believe we are currently living in the new Earth).

As you can see, with all the different beliefs surrounding the end times, it's kind of hard for some Christians to enjoy it, when it conflicts with their doctrinal beliefs. Look at the Da Vinci Code, it is a fictional story, but many Christians are offended by the way it treats our beliefs. Just because it's fiction, doesn't make it okay. And people who do not adhere to the view of the end times presented in the Left Behind series, will feel the same I'm sure.

EDIT: Heh, AH beat me to it and even said it better than I did. xD;; At any rate, yes, this thread is not a debate about the end times, it's talking about the Left Behind games. Let's stay on topic, then, shall we?

[Tommy]

Whoever wants to discuss this feel free to PM me.

[Raiden no Kishi]

: : reads about game : :

: : raises major eyebrow : :

The HECK?

Okay, that's just weird. Does . . . anything remotely resembling this happen in the books? [hasn't read them, probably won't] I'm also surprised that a Christian-produced game would allow you to be evil. That's odd. Realistic, though. I don't have very high expectations myself ~ I don't remember hearing of any good Christian games. I think the problem is that the focus is too much on getting the message out and not on making a good game. The message will take care of itself. But if you don't make the message's vehicle good, the message will be irrelevant.

.rai//

[GhostontheNet]

Yeah, I want to see Christian games with the quality of gameplay found in the Thief stealth series!

Wow, I don't think Christ wanted to go that far in not showing off our good works. ^_^ Such a thing would only work situationally for things that are necessary but not government sanctioned, like Bible smuggling of aiding Jews in Nazi Germany or something (and even then, appearing normal lends more aid than all the subtle creeping in the world). I really did like Thief: Deadly Shadows though, particularly the Cradle.

On this Left Behind game at hand, I'm surprised to see how greatly this dialogue here at CAA deverges from the one at Theology Web at http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=78603 . On the whole "spirit" thing, I think the designers were trying to deal with the old-school concept of "morale" as applied to a fused spiritual and physical war where the loyalty to not buckle under pressure and join the enemy instead must be maintained, moreso than a reduction to "magic".

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Ha, ha. GhostontheNet, I meant with the quality of gameplay, how they don't have the feel of the game, very immersive, atmospheric - that sort of thing. Smuggling Bibles, not a bad idea!

[Killua]

I'm not yet sure what to think of this game, but I do believe many people miunderstand what the game is about.
For example that the game moralizes violence is completely wrong after what I've read. Trying to convert people non-violently is one thing the game is trying to moralize.
If you convert people you get aid from angels, if you kill innocent people you Devils come instead (remember it's a fictional game). But this is still not the way the game tries to evangelise. I belive it's by showing bibleverses and such.

Also remember that Left Behind is much based on the Revelations. And the Reveltaions are violent scriptures, that clearly say the end will be violent and hard times.

(Edit: Some people seem to think (maybe not at this board, I dunno) that this is a game with christians vs. atheists, muslims, buddhist and such. This is really wrong. It's a fight with those who have chosen Gods side vs. those who have chosen anti-christs side.)

[Arnobius]

Ha, ha. GhostontheNet, I meant with the quality of gameplay, how they don't have the feel of the game, very immersive, atmospheric - that sort of thing. Smuggling Bibles, not a bad idea!

Hmm... God's Smuggler done in the style of GTA?

[ClosetOtaku]

Well sort of. As I understand it it is a Premillinialist Dispensationalist Rapture interpretation of The Bible that tends to be hostile to certain denominations and beliefs. If that's what you believe in, it wouldn't bother you. But if you did not accept that interpretation of the Bible or belonged to a denomination LaHaye treats poorly then you might tend to be offended by the material or the way it was handled.

A chunk of my rationale, along with a strong distaste for the Gospel according to Hal Lindsey; I will take that to PM.

[rocklobster]

One more thing: Left Behind is strongly anti-Catholic, and not at all subtle about it. (THe pope is even working for the Anti-Christ towards the middle of the series).

[Linksquest]

Wow this is interesting to say the least. I just watched the trailer and... I still don't get what sort of game this is supposed to be... will it be like... RTS?

[Scarecrow]

You know this game is gonna suck. The books were dumb, the movies were some of the worst movies ever... the game... well, they've already had two strikes. I don't see this doing any better.

I don't have very much respect for the authors either really. The books are just a cash cow and I really don't think they are doing any good except affirming some Christians in their beliefs about the end times.

I agree with most of whats been said about it so far so I'm not gonna bother repeating anything

[GhostontheNet]

I'm not yet sure what to think of this game, but I do believe many people miunderstand what the game is about.
For example that the game moralizes violence is completely wrong after what I've read. Trying to convert people non-violently is one thing the game is trying to moralize.
If you convert people you get aid from angels, if you kill innocent people you Devils come instead (remember it's a fictional game). But this is still not the way the game tries to evangelise. I belive it's by showing bibleverses and such.

Also remember that Left Behind is much based on the Revelations. And the Reveltaions are violent scriptures, that clearly say the end will be violent and hard times.

(Edit: Some people seem to think (maybe not at this board, I dunno) that this is a game with christians vs. atheists, muslims, buddhist and such. This is really wrong. It's a fight with those who have chosen Gods side vs. those who have chosen anti-christs side.)

Still, the genre is real time strategy and that will mean there will be violence. As I had pointed out in the Theology Web thread though, it looks like the opposition against which violence would actually be used would be some kind of New World Order Riot Police Gestapo rather than attacking civilians. As I see it though, the dispensational theology of Tim Lahaye screws up by thinking that the newspapers offer a better guide to Revelation than all the work of real Biblical scholars who are well acquanted with ancient Jewish and Graeco-Roman literature, including the very relevant genre of ancient apocalyptic literature.

Similarly, in exegesis they will screw with both historical context and ignore essential texts - thus they try to powder keg the Middle East situation by never lending any quarter to the Palestinians, arguing from this phony Biblical narrative that God has positive plans for Israel (sons of Isaac), but only plans on decimating Islam (sons of Ishmael). However, it is written, "As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I have blessed him and will make him fruitful and multiply him greatly. He shall father twelve princes, and I will make him into a great nation." (Genesis 17:20 ESV) In the language of Genesis, by there being the twelve tribes (see Genesis 12-18 for the geneology explaining how this resulted in twelve tribes) of Ishmael just as there are twelve tribes of Isaac, and in the language of Genesis this means that Ishmael's decendants will share in the Abrahamic blessing ("Behold, I will make you a great nation" of Genesis 12:1-3) - in other words, God intends a shared blessing among both Israel and Palestine. I comment upon this as only one example of the dangerous errors in modern dispensationalist authors in an effort to demonstrate the seriousness of my objection.

[mastersquirrel]

I'm not yet sure what to think of this game, but I do believe many people miunderstand what the game is about.
For example that the game moralizes violence is completely wrong after what I've read. Trying to convert people non-violently is one thing the game is trying to moralize.
If you convert people you get aid from angels, if you kill innocent people you Devils come instead (remember it's a fictional game). But this is still not the way the game tries to evangelise. I belive it's by showing bibleverses and such.

Also remember that Left Behind is much based on the Revelations. And the Reveltaions are violent scriptures, that clearly say the end will be violent and hard times.

(Edit: Some people seem to think (maybe not at this board, I dunno) that this is a game with christians vs. atheists, muslims, buddhist and such. This is really wrong. It's a fight with those who have chosen Gods side vs. those who have chosen anti-christs side.)

Personally, I don't mind the violence part of the game. It's a war, and wars have violence. What gets me is their ability to completely alter certain truths and twist them into a video game to their liking, like the "spirituality meter" and the scrolls with scriptures on them that give you upgrades.

I'm not talking about the books or the ideas you may have about the Left Behind series, because that's not the thing I'm interested in. I'm talking about the gameplay and how they are referring to their game as a Christian one. It seems to me that they're just throwing "Christian" stuff in there to try and get on the Christian community's good side, but ,as my Mom agreed with me the other day, the stuff they're trying to pass as Christian and using as gameplay mechanics are crap. They're just trying to sell their product to the group of people who don't want to play anything unless it's got the Christian label on it, and that bothers me.

[Arnobius]

Hmm, I wonder if it's trying to pick up the market of people who were opposed to "Da Vinci Code" and focussed on the biggest selling novel series. Problem is it is a sort of niche market. Because the novels are so divisive, displaying some hostility to certain Christians and their views, it won't be able to capture the "Christian" market. Just those who accept the ideas of the books and also play video games (and who aren't offended by the videogame treatment).

Or maybe I'm wrong in my guess as to why.

[Tommy]

You know this game is gonna suck. The books were dumb, the movies were some of the worst movies ever... the game... well, they've already had two strikes. I don't see this doing any better.

I don't have very much respect for the authors either really. The books are just a cash cow and I really don't think they are doing any good except affirming some Christians in their beliefs about the end times.

Well, not to sound rude, but no one that makes the book cares if you give it strikes or not.

The books are great and my friend did a research report on LaHaye. It's clear to see God had a calling on his life to aware people of the Christian's view on the rapture. He did a great job.

The first movie was okay but the sequel was complete crap. Haven't seen the third.

The game looks like people begged the authors into borrowing ome characters and plotlines and made their own little twisted game. If the authors are just oging to let this happen, then my repsect for them is indeed dimming.

[Arnobius]

Well, not to sound rude, but no one that makes the book cares if you give it strikes or not.

The books are great and my friend did a research report on LaHaye. It's clear to see God had a calling on his life to aware people of the Christian's view on the rapture. He did a great job.

Keep in mind that not all Christians believe in the rapture. Many Christians have issues with his books.

[Tommy]

If not all Christians believe in rapture, then what other parts of the Bible do they not believe?

If the Bible says the rapture is going to happen, I bleieve it. Any other belief would be deciding to forget Revalation exists or misreading Scripture.

Once again, AnimeHeretic, let us move this to PM.

[Nate]

If not all Christians believe in rapture, then what other parts of the Bible do they not believe?

It depends on your interpretation. I don't believe in a rapture, because I interpret things differently than you. It's like Song of Solomon. Some see it as a love story between a man and a woman, some see it as an allegory of Christ and the church. It all depends on your interpretation.

[Tommy]

So tell me...if you don't believe in Rapture, what do you believe?