Kingdom Hearts 2

[Tsukuyomi]

Gottcha, he'll prolly still kick my butt to Mars (lol). I still love him tho (heart)!

It's so cute, I was at Hollow Bastion (when it was still Hollow Bastion) and I was in the Market Place. I spotted Cloud. I was like,"Ooh, cute guy." So I jumped down to talk to him and then my niece comes in the room,"Ooh, who's that guy?" I just smiled. Then she goes,"He's my future husband." lol

[Tommy]

He's the main character of Final Fantasy VII and Sephiroth is the main villian. Good game.

[Tsukuyomi]

They're both HOTT!

[Tommy]

I slightly cannot agree with you on that topic for obvious reason.

Also, I find this particular side convrsation is turning spammy so let's continue it on PM.

[Tommy]

[EDIT]

[GrubbTheFragger]

I really need to play KH2. Actually i really need to play through the first one first.

[Tommy]

That was a mistake. Eheh *insert giant anime sweatdrop*

[uc pseudonym]

I essentially made all of that matter disappear, just so you know.

They should have shown more with Pete and Maleficent. I don't get what happened.

What didn't you understand?

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh, Sephiroth is so.... so... strong! The only reason why I survived as long as I did was because of the Reaction Command (lol... sweat drop... gulp).

Wait, is there a reaction command that helps very much with Sephiroth? I can think of the one that blocks his multi-slash, but no others. Regardless, if you're still having trouble with Sephiroth, here is my advice: equip accessories that raise Defense (because the priority is surviving) then figure out a way to deal with each of his attacks. For example, having the ability that lets you move from falling to attacking in midair is incredibly helpful. I found it so, anyway, because if you time it right, when Sephiroth teleports behind you for another combo you hit him before he starts.

[Tommy]

You press Triangle beofre he attacks you at the very beginning and you can defend it.

I didn't understand their fate.

[Tsukuyomi]

Yup, that's the one that hlped me surive a whole few seconds (lol). I do love him tho (heart). Ok, it's out of my system now (sigh). Hmm, do I have to find all the treasure chest to get the alternate ending?

[uc pseudonym]

That's the one I was thinking of. He'll do it later on as well. A tip about that: even if you miss dodging the first one, he tends to do several in a row (at least he did for me).

I didn't understand their fate.

You mean at the end? I think we can assume that they successfully survive their battle with the Heartless. After all, it would be pretty odd if the game didn't show them defeated or they didn't come back. Besides, even thousands of little Heartless don't stand a chance against anyone powerful due to healing.

On the other hand, it would be cool if they were defeated and transformed into Heartless, and in the next game in the series we see a lot more of this. That is, the Heartless actually being a force unto themselves, not merely being controlled by everyone else.

Kaemmerite, I have an opinion question for you: do you think the series will develop the concept of the artificial Heartless (can't remember the official name - it's in one of the Ansem Reports) that Organization XIII created? I find this interesting, especially because they apparently can't be controlled normally.

Hmm, do I have to find all the treasure chest to get the alternate ending?

They're required for Jiminy's Journal completion, yes. But actually, I didn't find this hard at all. Based on the journal you can determine where they are to a fairly small area, and then it is just a matter of methodically checking for them. I got all of them in normal gameplay except for Twilight Town and 100 Acre Woods, and those weren't difficult to find.

[Tommy]

Does anyone feel like this game would've been a fine way to wrap up the plot?

[Nate]

Kaemmerite, I have an opinion question for you: do you think the series will develop the concept of the artificial Heartless (can't remember the official name - it's in one of the Ansem Reports) that Organization XIII created? I find this interesting, especially because they apparently can't be controlled normally.

That is a good question. I'm trying to think how this would fit in with everything. The next game is obviously going to focus on the Keyblade War, there's no doubt about that, but as to how the Heartless fit into all of it, that's tough to say. Perhaps Xehanort wasn't really defeated? Hmm... *goes off to ponder this*

[Azier the Swordsman]

Does anyone feel like this game would've been a fine way to wrap up the plot?

It wold be, however, Nomura has said that he still sees 'the final scene' in his head, indicating that we still have not seen the stories' end yet. So there is still apparently more to go. I would suspect a trilogy, actually.

[Rocketshipper]

On the other hand, it would be cool if they were defeated and transformed into Heartless, and in the next game in the series we see a lot more of this. That is, the Heartless actually being a force unto themselves, not merely being controlled by everyone else.

I thought that the game at least implied that Malificient and Pete (and I guess the other disney villians in the last game) were already heartless, because, according to the reports, only a more powerful heartless can control a lower heartless.

Does anyone feel like this game would've been a fine way to wrap up the plot?

Yeah, if it hadn't been for the epilogue and secret movie I would have felt that this game would have been an excellent stopping point for the story especially considering...

[spoiler] A) Sora, Riku, and Kairi are re-united and return to Destiny Island, and B) the origin of the KH poem that's read during the credit montage is revealed [/spoiler]

[termyt]

I thought that the game at least implied that Malificient and Pete (and I guess the other disney villians in the last game) were already heartless, because, according to the reports, only a more powerful heartless can control a lower heartless.

The heartless follow whomever is most powerful. [spoiler]Xemnas controlled heartless and he was a nobody.[/spoiler]

[Nate]

Right, the Heartless follow anyone who is powerful, not just other Heartless. The exception to this is that darkness seems to put them in a type of "berserker" mode. This was evident when Pete told Maleficent that Organization XIII's castle was too close to the darkness and they'd never be able to control them.

[uc pseudonym]

Exactly. I'd like to see that darkness become something more than an animal force - an entity.

Yeah, if it hadn't been for the epilogue and secret movie I would have felt that this game would have been an excellent stopping point for the story especially considering...

In a way, things did wrap up quite a it, yes. More than I had expected - it seemed almost as if everything was going to be over until the bottle. But in a way, this wouldn't have been a satisfying conclusion because I personally would feel it was too abrupt and short. As a temporary pause it was alright, but not as an end to the entire series.

[Tommy]

But the secret movie took place in the past, didn't it?

[Tsukuyomi]

"Lalala... I'm didi't hear that Tom!" No, just kidding (lol). Is it that differacnt from the first ending? Man, I'm so curious to see it.

[Nate]

But the secret movie took place in the past, didn't it?

No one knows, and Nomura isn't saying.

EDIT: My take on it though, is
[SPOILER]It takes place in the future, since the King's Key, the Kingdom Key, and Way to the Dawn look very rusty and old. Also, Way to the Dawn probably didn't exist until Riku made it, so that's another sign it takes place in the future.[/SPOILER]

[termyt]

I would assume that the secret movie sets the stage for the next game. That's the only thing I feel confident in saying about it. Otherwise, kae's resoning is pretty sound.

[Tsukuyomi]

Cooli, I can't wait. Umm, I can't seem to find Naimine's sketches. They said it would be in Jiminy's journle, but it's not (.....).

[Rocketshipper]

Right, the Heartless follow anyone who is powerful, not just other Heartless.

Ansem's Secret Report 5. (translation from a FAQ)

[spoiler] But whether pure-blood Heartless or Emblem, Heartless without a heart move
following an instinctve desire.
They simply seek out hearts and gather.
With a human-like opponent, all they do is they easily remove the heart and take
it into themselves, creating more companions. They do not listen to the orders
of humans.
But, what about the orders of stronger Heartless?
If, for example, that man discarded his soul and body to become a Heartless,
could he not lead the naturally unleaderlike Heartless? [/spoiler]

This report seemed pretty clear to me. Strong heartless control weak heartless. I can't recall any time that Organization XIII actually gave orders to heartless; I think they just created them and let them rampage around so Sora could kill them. That one guy did teleport some Heartless in to fight Sora during the Hollow Bastion level, but but I don't know if he was actually controlling them; he may have just brought them in and they fought Sora on instinct.

[uc pseudonym]

Cooli, I can't wait. Umm, I can't seem to find Naimine's sketches. They said it would be in Jiminy's journle, but it's not (.....).

I don't remember this at all. If you really want to look at her sketches, though, go to the White Room in the Mansion and use the first person viewing system to get a good look at all of them. Unless you are thinking about something else entirely.

[quote="Rocketshipper"]This report seemed pretty clear to me. Strong heartless control weak heartless. I can't recall any time that Organization XIII actually gave orders to heartless]
Kaemmerite is more likely to remember the exact details than I, but I am fairly certain that one member directly says, "The Heartless obey whoever is strong." The way Heartless appear and disappear around them is enough to make me feel they are essentially controlling them.

But actually, the first game can shed light on this: Maleficent gives Riku the power to control the Heartless and we can basically confirm that he never lost his heart. Also, I think there was something related to this when she dies the first time (in terms of staying to close to the darkness and eventually being consumed by it).

Ah yes, the name was "Emblems." I assume that is a setup for something, because otherwise the distinction seems rather irrelevant.

[Nate]

Well, we have to remember a couple of things about the Ansem Reports. First, Ansem doesn't know everything. Remember, he himself said before he died that he knew so little about the heart. It's likely his report is incorrect in that area of information. We can gather this from the information presented in the game.

1. Each of the villains from the first game controlled Heartless, and they were not Heartless themselves. Otherwise they would not be able to think and plan...remember, the Heartless act on instinct alone, they are incapable of planning.

2. Likewise, Pete was obviously not a Heartless, yet he controlled them as well in the second game. It's obvious that he was indeed able to control the Heartless, as evidenced by his statement in the last scene you see him in. He said, "We're too close to the darkness, we'll never be able to control these Heartless!"

Actually, though, Riku's ability to control the Heartless can't be used as evidence. Remember, Riku was being possessed by Xehanort, who was a Heartless. However, the fact that the other villains in the series, who were not Heartless, yet were able to control them, proves the information in Ansem's report is incorrect.

[Rocketshipper]

. Each of the villains from the first game controlled Heartless, and they were not Heartless themselves. Otherwise they would not be able to think and plan...remember, the Heartless act on instinct alone, they are incapable of planning.

Then what about Xehanort? He was a heartless, yet he seemed perfectly capable of planning. Or do you think his possession of Riku gave him special powers?

[Nate]

Then what about Xehanort? He was a heartless, yet he seemed perfectly capable of planning. Or do you think his possession of Riku gave him special powers?

Hmm...I think that is possible that being in Riku may have given him higher insight, but I think the more logical explanation is this. He chose to become a Heartless, rather than having his heart forced away by another Heartless or by research. Because he willingly chose to be a Heartless, he retained much of his thoughts and desires. I think that is why he was able to plan, although of course, his plan was to capture more hearts, like any Heartless (he was just going after the biggest heart of all).

[uc pseudonym]

There is also the very real possibility that all of this wasn't planned out from the very beginning. Some elements do strike me as thoroughly planned, but in regards to Zehanort's Heartless I'm not so sure.

Actually, though, Riku's ability to control the Heartless can't be used as evidence. Remember, Riku was being possessed by Xehanort, who was a Heartless.

Was he actually possessed when Maleficent gave him that ability, though? I'm unclear on such details because it has been so long since I've played the first game.

[termyt]

I don't think the statement in Ansem's report that strong heartless control weakheartless is wrong - rather incomplete. The strong heartless do control the weak, but more to the point, anyone with strong dark powers can control weaker heartless. I think that's kind of the point. For the most part, heartless are rather simple creatures with little ability to reason for themselves - especially at lower levels, so they are easy to manipulate.

If they were smarter, they would have stopped attacking Sora about half way through the game and started fighting the nobodies. Malifecent reaized who the greater threat was and began to aid Sora (in her own "special" way). The heartless in general obviously aren't smart enough to figure that out.