The Official Nintendo Wii (Revolution) Thread

[Shia Kyosuka]

Even though alot of that ties into the Third Party developer thing I mentioned, I see what you're saying.

It just seemed like you were saying GameCube was a kiddy console, and that Nintendo only aims to serve kids with its consoles.

I would go into more on this (because I'm too tired to say anymore), but I assume you already know how PS2 had the most games, due to third party support, in every rating (Even E for Everyone) and was the most popular because of it, and all that stuff.

[Shia Kyosuka]

It's a sad part of the gaming community begging for graphics. I find it a sign of weakness and not understanding what true gaming is.

I am perfectly content with the Gamecube's graphics. I don't need an upgrade. I'm fine how it is.

It really annoys the crap out of me how people focus on graphics too much.

Yeah, that is annoying.

Graphics are an important part of games, though. It just shouldn't be overdone or overemphasized (like PS3).

Really, I do enjoy seeing an upgrade every 5 years. It adds to the experience, imo.

[Rogie]

I would like to point out the name of this thread. It's not "the who made what argument" thread, it's the Wii thread. You know, for talk about the Wii. I would really like to look at this thread and see news about the Wii without having to slog through arguments over who made what and who's stealing what from who. Lay off, in the end it really doesn't matter that much.

Mastersquirrel has a very good point, guys. I think it's time to quit arguing about Nintendo's past successes/failures, console wars, etc., etc. and just talk about the news. And I don't think there is anything new to talk about now, so let's cool our jets.

Talk about games if you must talk about news. Otherwise, quit arguing.

[Yojimbo]

It's a sad part of the gaming community begging for graphics. I find it a sign of weakness and not understanding what true gaming is.

I am perfectly content with the Gamecube's graphics. I don't need an upgrade. I'm fine how it is.

It really annoys the crap out of me how people focus on graphics too much.

When people think of a new system they usually make the same mistake when stating this argument. It doesn't make sense to assume that just because it's a new system with better graphics it means that. It's not just about "prettier games" it's about content more so than anything else. Open ended free roaming GTA/Mercenaries/Morrowind etc. worlds on that scale. That practically invented an entirely new genre of games one that gave more freedom than ever in gaming. Collision damage again on the scale of in games like Forza or Burnout would not have been possible. That effects not just the visual look of a vehicle but changes the entire mechanics of the game. Voices and facial expressions on the scale of games like FFX and Metal Gear Solid 2. It adds a whole new layer of emotion to a game when you can see their face reflect the situation and their voice. Com[plex AI systems like in Oblivion and Halo again couldn't have been done in the PS1/N64 era.



And it will just keep getting better in different ways like this for more immersion into the actual game. It's not just about graphics that's probably least on the list of developer's fantasies. The Wii is doing the same thing just a slightly different approach to the immersion factor.

Every interview I've ever read for the most part devs were more excited for expanding the mechanics and boundaries of games outside of graphical upgrades. Since we know a game can only look so good.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

When people think of a new system they usually make the same mistake when stating this argument. It doesn't make sense to assume that just because it's a new system with better graphics it means that. It's not just about "prettier games" it's about content more so than anything else. Open ended free roaming GTA/Mercenaries/Morrowind etc. worlds on that scale. That practically invented an entirely new genre of games one that gave more freedom than ever in gaming. Collision damage again on the scale of in games like Forza or Burnout would not have been possible. That effects not just the visual look of a vehicle but changes the entire mechanics of the game. Voices and facial expressions on the scale of games like FFX and Metal Gear Solid 2. It adds a whole new layer of emotion to a game when you can see their face reflect the situation and their voice. Com[plex AI systems like in Oblivion and Halo again couldn't have been done in the PS1/N64 era.



And it will just keep getting better in different ways like this for more immersion into the actual game. It's not just about graphics that's probably least on the list of developer's fantasies. The Wii is doing the same thing just a slightly different approach to the immersion factor.

Every interview I've ever read for the most part devs were more excited for expanding the mechanics and boundaries of games outside of graphical upgrades. Since we know a game can only look so good.

You can't disagree that many people also say "why are you getting a Wii? It's got the worst graphics" or "Why do you have a gamecube? The Xbox has much better graphics"

Happens way too much in my experience.

[Yojimbo]

You can't disagree that many people also say "why are you getting a Wii? It's got the worst graphics" or "Why do you have a gamecube? The Xbox has much better graphics"

Happens way too much in my experience.

Yes I can because I honestly don't experience that much. And even so my point still stands.

[Pent]

Wow that never happens to you. Your rare. Everyone known by everyone I know (that's alot of people if you think about it) and everyone I don't know, but have heard the oppinions of except for you has graphics conversations where the gamecube is put down because of it's bad graphics compared to Xbox, (these same people where among the millions who bought Playstation 2's so I don't know what they are talking about since Playstation 2 has worse graphics then Xbox as well and in alot of cases gamecube). They're is a huge focus on graphics right now it seems, except for on the Wii. These die hard gamers are buying the more expensive consoles and graphics chips and stuff for loads of money, meanwhile I'll get my cheap Wii and play some of the funest games ever.

[Linksquest]

You can't disagree that many people also say "why are you getting a Wii? It's got the worst graphics" or "Why do you have a gamecube? The Xbox has much better graphics"

Happens way too much in my experience.

You can do MORE with better graphics. Nuff said.

[Jingo Jaden]

Graphics dosen't decide if the game is great. I mean if yoy find a game with great graphics, but lousy gameplay/story you've most likely come across a bad game, see chrono trigger and ff3. Not the best of graphics, but excelent story and okay gameplay ;P

[Mega.EXE]

yea I would rather play a game with graet story and gameplay with okay graphics than a game with amazing graphics and bad story and okay gameplay

[Myoti]

You can do MORE with better graphics. Nuff said.

You CAN, but you can also do stuff by focusing more on the gameplay.

Yes I can because I honestly don't experience that much. And even so my point still stands.

Most of the ones that make statements about the graphics are probably the kind that don't use the internet much anyways. And yes, you have a point, but most of "these people" think of graphics in simple terms of how it looks. As in, they can look at a picture and already make up their mind about a game (which is typically just poor judgement).

[mastersquirrel]

You can do MORE with better graphics. Nuff said.

Let's see, you can make better lighting, you can have better reflections, see more expressions on faces, have more fluent and realistic movement, great environments, yeah you can do a lot with better graphics. But the thing is that's not what I'm looking for. Sure it's a great added bonus to a game, but the main point needs to be focused on the gameplay rather than the graphics. Because even if graphics are good you can still have a bad game.

[Nate]

*throws two pennies on the counter*

I think it really depends on what type of game it is. I love RPGs. Graphics, to me, really aren't that big a deal, because it's the storyline and game mechanics I care about. Chrono Trigger's graphics are sorely outdated, but it's the greatest RPG of all time. BUT, a game's graphics cannot look like total garbage. I haven't played very many RPGs that had graphics like this, but I'm sure they're out there.

Now, FPS games, these are a different story. FPS games aren't about storyline or game mechanics. To that end, they have only one way to suck you in: graphics. The more realistic the graphics, the more you feel you are in the game. This is why not many people play Doom anymore, despite the fact that it's a great FPS. It's because the graphics are so dated, they are unable to immerse themselves fully in the game.

A lot of the gamers out there that put graphics as a priority are FPS fans, not RPG fans. And seeing as how after the SNES, Nintendo has always been dead last in terms of graphics capabilities, it's understandable that they wouldn't get many FPS games, and why gamers would be opposed to it (the Xbox Live feature with Halo merely sealed the deal, since Nintendo was too stupid to do the online gaming thing).

Now, with this new console, there is a catch. The controller is going to allow for greater accuracy when it comes to FPS games. It will finally put a console FPS on par with a PC FPS, PC FPS games having been superior for ages due to the mouse. However, this doesn't change the fact that the graphics will still be inferior to the PS3 and the 360.

Regardless, I think for the real FPS fans, this is the clear winner. Greater accuracy in firing should be more important than graphics any day of the week. Yes, there will be some teenage kids who continue to denounce this system because the graphics aren't as pretty and shiny. However, they would be hard pressed to get as many headshots using a standard controller as opposed to someone playing with this controller.

[Shia Kyosuka]

Yeah, I think everybody knows how I really feel on the "graphics vs. gameplay" thing.

There are awesome games with bad graphics, but not vise-versa.

I mean, I played some Halo with my cousin... and MAN, was I bored! I felt like I stayed up until 5 AM, slept for 2 hours, woke up, took 2 sleeping pills, and drank some green tea. It was seriously starting to put me to sleep after oh... 10 minutes.

EDIT: Oh, I'm not saying Halo was a bad game, just, it bores me. :/ All FPS's have been (except MEtroid Prime) for a long time now...

Final Fantasy 7, on the other hand, the characters look like pixels and colors, but yet, I'm determined to keep playing until I beat it.

>_>

<_<

Yeah, I'm still playing. o.o My computer controller wouldn't work for a while, and I don't like playing games with the keyboard, so, I had to wait until I fixed the soundcard to play.

And seeing as how after the SNES, Nintendo has always been dead last in terms of graphics capabilities, it's understandable that they wouldn't get many FPS games, and why gamers would be opposed to it (the Xbox Live feature with Halo merely sealed the deal, since Nintendo was too stupid to do the online gaming thing).

ummm.... sorry, just had to point this out.

N64 (even without the expansion pak) gfx > PS1 gfx, GCN gfx > PS2 gfx, matched or surpassed XBox (in a few cases) = not dead last. Compare the specs (not even counting the effeciency of the gekko) if you don't believe me.

Sony has been dead last (in terms of graphics) for 2 generations, which is, the whole time it's been in the gaming industry.

And still, PS2 had more FPS than GameCube, and is the current leader in the console wars.

But, you may be right about the FPS fans and graphics. I mean, it IS a myth of the uninformed that N64 and GameCube had the worst graphics. And, most FPS's, as of now, are all the same, in terms of gameplay...

[Linksquest]

You CAN, but you can also do stuff by focusing more on the gameplay.

But that's exactly what I'm saying. (read end of this post)

For me, I think that gameplay is above everything else]You CAN, but you can also do stuff by focusing more on the gameplay.[/QUOTE]

Systems can do far more in regards to GAMEPLAY when a greater graphical ability is available.

[Jingo Jaden]

[quote="Linksquest"]But that's exactly what I'm saying. (read end of this post)

For me, I think that gameplay is above everything else]

Yeah, but it dosen't seem like they will have a controller compatable with the wii remote.

[Nate]

N64 (even without the expansion pak) gfx > PS1 gfx, GCN gfx > PS2 gfx, matched or surpassed XBox (in a few cases) = not dead last. Compare the specs (not even counting the effeciency of the gekko) if you don't believe me.

Negative. While N64 games generally had higher polygon counts, the limited storage size of ROM carts limited the amount of available textures, resulting in games which had a plain and flat-shaded look, and lo-res sprites. In other words, worse graphics than PS1. Graphics are not polygon counts alone, my friend.

However, as far as the Gamecube goes, I haven't really done research on that, so I will not make up anything for that one. However, given that Gamecube uses smaller discs than Xbox or PS2, not as much information can be stored on them. Thus, when comparing multi-platform games, the question is, what was removed from the Gamecube version to make it fit on the small discs? In some games audio was removed, but I would be willing to bet the graphics were made a bit worse as well. I will go off to research further.

EDIT: Okay, did some research, and found out this: Despite being more compact than the PlayStation 2 (it was released over a year later and kept the power supply separate from the console), the GameCube has superior graphics processing power and better ProLogic sound, but no optical output. So yes, the Gamecube has superior graphics to the PS2 as far as numbers and processing power, but my point still stands. Something would have to be removed to make a game the size of an Xbox or PS2 disc fit on a Gamecube size disc, and I'm willing to bet it was often graphics.

[Shia Kyosuka]

[quote="kaemmerite"]Negative. While N64 games generally had higher polygon counts, the limited storage size of ROM carts limited the amount of available textures, resulting in games which had a plain and flat-shaded look, and lo-res sprites. In other words, worse graphics than PS1. Graphics are not polygon counts alone, my friend. ]

You're right about polygon counts not being the only thing there is to graphics. I mean, N64 had anti-aliasing, Z buffering, 64 bit, more colors, etc. as opposed to ps1's less colors, lower resolution, 32 bit, etc.

What you say can make sense, but the stuff adds up. Besides, I had both when they were still around, and from what I could tell, N64's graphics were better.



As for GameCube's graphics, in ports, I could definently tell the difference between PS2's version, and Cube's version. Cube's were better. I've never seen anything Vise-versa.

AND when I had GameInformer, the articles with multiple console games would always say how the PS2's graphics had to be "dumbed down" from the Cube and XBox versions.

And, it's true that cube mini-discs didn't have the same capacity as PS2's and XBox's discs, but if they were too big for the mini-disc, most developers put their game on multiple discs. That's why you see so many multiple disc Cube games.

[Myoti]

And where the crap did the Wii discussion go...?

Systems can do far more in regards to GAMEPLAY when a greater graphical ability is available.

Graphics are good, gameplay is good. Give me a good game, and I don't care.

[blkmage]

Well, the reason why the Gamecube's graphical abilities are superior to the PS2's is because the PS2 was released a year before.

I know that the PS2 was really hard to develop for because of Sony's Emotion Engine. From what I've heard, they're not really cooperative with other developers. The whole PS3 E3 controller thing with Warhawk getting informed 10 days and other devs at the conference kind of shows that.

[mastersquirrel]

*tries desperately to bring the discussion back where it was supposed to be* Uh... so Wii. Heh, what... um... what kinda name is that? <.<.... I'll go away now.

[Linksquest]

Has anyone seen the trailer to Super Mario Galaxy? At first I was like but after watching some trailers the idea is sounding better and better. I really like what Nintendo has done with it.

[mastersquirrel]

I saw a video or two of that as well. It actually looks really promising. I'm definitely looking forward to this game, if only because of it's unique charm.

[skyblue]

Super Mario Galaxy is a fantastic idea...I just hope that Nintendo includes a Delfino Plaza-esque world. d^_^b

[Myoti]

Mario Galaxy + Fawful = XD

[Felix]

Mario Galaxy looks awesome! Couple that with Super Smash Bros. 3, and I already have 2 good reasons to buy a Wii (not that I needed any convincing) Old-school nintendo action with a new generation twist. It looks very promising

[blkmage]

Super Mario Galaxy looks really fun. I must say, the bosses are quite large.

[Nate]

I found this article via Penny Arcade, thought I'd share it with you:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/1/13

I'll have to say, I really don't agree with this guy at all. Mass producing movies is a little bit different than video games. Also, Wii is cheaper than the other two systems (more than likely), and cheap = good...the article mentions that 70mm cameras were expensive, and Wii doesn't have that problem.

[Myoti]

He was spot on: nine years later, games still routinely ship with crappy camera controls. It's not because the developers are lazy; it's because cameras are hard. Miyamoto and his colleagues at Nintendo realized this and they didn't screw around. They built the platform to support the game.

He says this, nearly praising Nintendo, then jumps over to bashing their "innovations." What in the world...? O.o

And he said "Game Boy DS." Heh... I laugh at him...


Basically, some of the stuff he says is this whole reason I hate alot of game companies now. They don't try anything new. Yet he's basically saying all this is a good thing.

They're laughing at the burning wreckage of Feel the Magic: XY/XX and Nintendogs and Odama.

Both "Feel the Magic" and "Nintendogs" were in the top selling list for quite a while. In fact, I believe all three Nintendogs are still in the Top 10 for DS.

Nintendo wanted to "reach more gamers" with stuff like this. Seems like it's working.

[Nate]

And despite what he says about the PSP being a more familiar system, the Nintendo DS is still outselling it, last time I checked.