Answer to Volt's "What anime would Jesus watch"

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:57 pm

I think Jesus could watch ANY anime and not sin... He may watch it with a complete understanding of everyone who made it and have compassion for them and call them to himself, to hold them like children... I think that he would see every stroke of the paintbrush as a piece of that person's heart and know what is really bugging them and the reason for everything, and have the exact right thing to say to each one of them... That's what I think. You don't sin by things you take in, but by what you do with them. The only reason it's suggested not to watch certain things is because

1. We don't want to approve of what's being done
2. We don't want to financially support something that's wrong
3. We don't want to willingly enter ourselves into temptation that traps us.

Anyhow... he could also watch what WE watch, regardless of what it is (even so much as something blasphemous against him) and know the reasons and what WE'RE going through and know exactly what to say to us and how to say it... In fact, I think that happens anyhow.

Postby **Shao Feng-Li** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:08 pm

interesting though Bob. Jesus could watch anything and not sin... but would hearing cuss words and seeing fanservice... aint that sinfull? so i dont think Jesus would watch what some people (personally i dont know how some of you can watch some anime and not be ofended....) Also i dont think he's watch what a other people would watch... 1. he doesnt need to in order to know our problems 2. because a lot of it just isnt right...

Postby **inkhana** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:36 pm

Ruroken wrote:interesting though Bob. Jesus could watch anything and not sin... but would hearing cuss words and seeing fanservice... aint that sinfull? so i dont think Jesus would watch what some people (personally i dont know how some of you can watch some anime and not be ofended....) Also i dont think he's watch what a other people would watch... 1. he doesnt need to in order to know our problems 2. because a lot of it just isnt right...

Actually...how can it be a sin to hear someone curse or see fanservice? It's what you do with the experience that counts - do you adopt that sin or reject it? I'll give a fair example: suppose you walk up behind someone when you're checking out from the store. She's wearing a skimpy little top and swearing a storm. Now...you've heard the swearing, and seen the "fanservice" (although I'm using a blatant example, it's for the most part the same thing)...does that mean you have sinned? No, it's because you didn't do those things, and you reject them. You can't escape such things while you're in this world.

What Bob is getting at is that Jesus can be in any situation and not sin - could witness any human atrocity and still love us not for what we are (most horrible and corrupt sinners), but just because He wants to. That is His holy nature. We don't involve ourselves with those things for the reason Bob listed, but Jesus does not have the constraint of unholy thoughts and therefore cannot be corrupted by them. That doesn't necessarily mean that He -would- watch these things if given an op, it just means that He wouldn't be drawn into the same traps we are.

Postby **inkhana** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:37 pm

inkhana wrote:Actually, ...how can it be a sin to hear someone curse or see fanservice? It's what you do with the experience that counts - do you adopt that sin or reject it? I'll give a fair example: suppose you walk up behind someone when you're checking out from the store. She's wearing a skimpy little top and swearing a storm. Now...you've heard the swearing, and seen the "fanservice" (although I'm using a blatant example, it's for the most part the same thing)...does that mean you have sinned? No, it's because you didn't do those things, and you reject them. You can't escape such things while you're in this world.

What Bob is getting at is that Jesus can be in any situation and not sin - could witness any human atrocity and still love us not for what we are (most horrible and corrupt sinners), but just because He wants to. That is His holy nature. We don't involve ourselves with those things for the reason Bob listed, but Jesus does not have the constraint of unholy thoughts and therefore cannot be corrupted by them. That doesn't necessarily mean that He -would- watch these things if given an op, it just means that He wouldn't be drawn into the same traps we are.

Postby **Shinja** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:38 pm

in all truth the Bible syas that everything is permisable to me, but not everything is benificial, everything is permisible but i will not be mastered by anything. it is true you are saved you no longer live under the law, you can do anything, but the actions of what you do can be very diasterous, either to your self or to others and it can destroy your testimony. we therefore we should guard what we watch and do so that we would not injur our selvs, others or participate in anything that is aginst Gods will.

Whenyour eyes are good,your whole body also is full of light. But, when they are bad your body is also full of darkness. Luke 11:34

therefore it is important not to let trash into you life also by the things you watch.

Postby **Shao Feng-Li** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:53 pm

inkhana wrote:Actually...how can it be a sin to hear someone curse or see fanservice? It's what you do with the experience that counts - do you adopt that sin or reject it? I'll give a fair example: suppose you walk up behind someone when you're checking out from the store. She's wearing a skimpy little top and swearing a storm. Now...you've heard the swearing, and seen the "fanservice" (although I'm using a blatant example, it's for the most part the same thing)...does that mean you have sinned? No, it's because you didn't do those things, and you reject them. You can't escape such things while you're in this world.

What Bob is getting at is that Jesus can be in any situation and not sin - could witness any human atrocity and still love us not for what we are (most horrible and corrupt sinners), but just because He wants to. That is His holy nature. We don't involve ourselves with those things for the reason Bob listed, but Jesus does not have the constraint of unholy thoughts and therefore cannot be corrupted by them. That doesn't necessarily mean that He -would- watch these things if given an op, it just means that He wouldn't be drawn into the same traps we are.

actually i was going more along the lines of... you watch an anime KNOWING to expect Fanservice and cussing... like Cowboy Bebop.
there isnt much you can do of youre in the store and such.
and i see what Bob means

Postby **Haibane Shadsie** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:09 pm

So, I watch Cowboy Bebop. Faye in skimpy clothes! Whoopie do!!!! I am a straight female. I don't think that's going to hurt me too much, dear.

You know what? I'm a fan of Renaissance art... lots of paintings of naked people! Lots of Christian devotional paintings of naked people! Yes, one day, I want to go to Italy and see the Sistine Chapel... all those naked saints all over the roof.

I'm just making a point: Some things affect some people more than others. I'm not going to feel lust watching Cowboy Bebop and looking at Faye's fanservice - as I said... I'm a straight female.

Postby **Shao Feng-Li** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:17 pm

i forget nudity isnt a bad thing... heck adam and eve were naked.... then again it can be perverted... ill just be quiet now and stay on topic... *no comment*

Postby **ShiroiHikari** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:38 pm

Interesting thread....very interesting. *keeps watching*

Postby **Fsiphskilm** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:59 pm

Aww a thread

Postby **Shao Feng-Li** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:16 pm

Volt wrote:Aww a thread with my name in it... (But still dedicated to what Jesus would watch)

I'd like to thank everyone for their mature opinions...What you guy's have said has really opened up my heart and mind and helped me with everyday chioces.

The real Jesus might not really be into Anime, the sexuality so and so. But I'm not trying to stereotype Anime. Anime like Cowboy Bebop has truths in it...And I agree that Jesus would try to bring out these truths... The fanservice and Cursing...that's natural reality. I went to a city school with about 1,200 cursing teens but they had absolutely no affect on me. Listening to people isn't what makes you sin...It's the sinning it'self...

BUT you must be carefull, because there ARE contradictions... that's like saying It's better to watch porn than to actually go out and loose your virginity. It's not that simple to just labal what jesus would and wouldn't do...You and I and everyone else don't exactly know him 100%, not to mension around the time he was physically alive there was no TV, Anime, and the media we have today.

Jesus would watch all anime? That's an assumption based on what you yourself beleaves. But it's a darn good assumption...Jesus was always known for listening... He'd watch the anime to listen but not neccesarily enjoy it. Maybe just watch it and debate on the truths and sins in the anime. After all We shouldn't judge but speculate, this is the path that offends none, yet teaches all. -Volt

Of course I don't beleave in putting words into Jesus's mouth. Same with the WWJD, you can't assume what jesus would or wouldn't do. Becaue most people base that decision on what they like and dislike. Personally

I'm battleing over the idea if jesus would bother to spend time to even watch anime....Of course That depends if Jesus is a lively person who enjoyed the things in life. or ignored everything so he wouldn't be tempted, to fulfill his purpose and not focus on pleasure....We don't know that yet becasue the Bible today, is has really been edited more than 4Kids's animes.

I really would like Jesus's "More Human, enjoying earthly media" image. But we don't really know. We shouldn't assume.

Listening to other people can change you and have a bad affect sometimes. Listening can be tempting. What tempts jesus isn't what tempts you...thus the whole WWJD is completely blown out of the water...it's more like "What Would Jesus Tell You To Do" rather than what he would do....Because Jesus died for all human's doesn't mean you or I would.

Also ANIME can tempt a person...and seeing how the Bible says to stay away from things that tempt you, not to purposely tempt yourself. You might want to reconsider wheather Jesus would watch ALL anime... Like a Normal human, he would have preferences.

good words there volt.

We shouldn't judge but speculate, this is the path that offends none, yet teaches all. -Volt

I thought the Bible tells us to judge... if it offends its not your fault... Like if someones watching hentai id judge that he' probably a wierdo....
*goes off to be quiet and not start something*

Postby **uc pseudonym** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:36 pm

Rather than speak at length about what Jesus might or might not watch, or speculate on the boundaries of sin, I'll just say this: Frankly, I think Jesus would have much better things to do with His time. Help the poor, the sick, the imprisoned, etc. Of course, I wouldn't say He'd never watch anime. Maybe he would as a boy before his ministry (we assume young Jesus did something for fun, don't we?).

Postby **ShiroiHikari** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:52 pm

Umm...about the judging thing. Where's my sword...

Okay, Matthew 7:1-4, NLT.

1 Stop judging others, and you will not be judged. 2 For others will treat you as you treat them. Whatever measure you use in judging others, it will be used to measure how you are judged. 3 And why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own? 4 How can you think of saying, "Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye," when you can't see past the log in your own eye?

Also, Romans 2:1-4 might be something to look at.

It's God's place to judge, not ours. Our job is to show the truth in a loving way.

Postby **madphilb** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:57 pm

Ruroken wrote:good words there volt.

We shouldn't judge but speculate, this is the path that offends none, yet teaches all. -Volt

I thought the Bible tells us to judge... if it offends its not your fault... Like if someones watching hentai id judge that he' probably a wierdo....

Actually, I believe scripture tells us that God is Judge, and warns us that we'll be judged by the measure we judge others....

We are to be fruit inspectors (when it comes to other beleivers) and "test the spirits" when it comes to spiritual issues.

I think Paul summed it up best with "except for the Grace of God, there go I." (that was Paul wan't it? Seem to think that was in Romans... really should write these things down :sweat:

)

Postby **cbwing0** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:01 pm

This is a rather odd question, because of the time people who presume to tell you what Jesus would and would not do act as if they have a monopoly on the mind of God (he wouldn't drive an SUV, according to some). Most of the time it is just blatant manipulation, rather than honest conviction.

I often wonder what heaven will be like. What will be able to do? Will there be things familiar to us on earth?

If Jesus were to appear on earth today, he probably would not spend his time watching anime, unless he was trying to reach some unbelieving anime viewers.

This is off-topic, but...

Volt wrote:We don't know that yet becasue the Bible today, is has really been edited more than 4Kids's animes.

What do you mean by this?

Postby **Destroyer2000** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:14 pm

Hm...."Being tempted isn't a sin, but giving into temptation is." Something like that somewhere.

Postby **ShiroiHikari** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:30 pm

Christ Himself was tempted (Matthew 4-11). So you're right Destroyer, temptation isn't a sin.

Postby **Haibane Shadsie** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:56 pm

Too...Many...Kenshins! Gah!

(Nah, Kenshin is fun! He's just really popular!)

The SUV thing... well, wouldn't Jesus need something to put all his diciples in? What better than an SUV? :sweat:

I know what you mean, though, that who stupid "What Would Jesus Drive?" thing. Like we presume to know... I knew a person who had an SUV because she thought it was very safe for her and her family, safer than other cars...

I have something kind of like that in my fantasy novel... a parody of how people presume to speak for God when they probably aren't really listening. One of my characters gets mistaken for a goddess by a nation of people. She keeps trying to tell them that she is not a goddess, but they do not listen. She also tries to tell them things, but they totally twist her words around so that they mean something completely diffrent.

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:40 pm

uc pseudonym wrote:Rather than speak at length about what Jesus might or might not watch, or speculate on the boundaries of sin, I'll just say this: Frankly, I think Jesus would have much better things to do with His time. Help the poor, the sick, the imprisoned, etc. Of course, I wouldn't say He'd never watch anime. Maybe he would as a boy before his ministry (we assume young Jesus did something for fun, don't we?).

I believe Jesus would have fun, even during his ministry... If anything, he'd do it as an example... Humans need fun and rest... We all get it in different ways...

Who's to say he wouldn't watch anime with someone as an element of his ministry? Doing with someone what they like to do, without crossing the boundaries into where you'd sin, can be a very effective element in ministry. It's part of friendship.

Postby **Azier the Swordsman** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:50 pm

Volt wrote:We don't know that yet becasue the Bible today, is has really been edited more than 4Kids's animes.

Nani? 4Kids doesn't just slightly edit their anime, they BUTCHER and HACK their anime. By saying the bible has been edited MORE than 4Kids' animes, it seems like you are implying that the bible may not be 100% correct? Please clarify.

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:43 pm

I disagree that the bible has things edited out because of translation (though some minor, and mostly , but some points may be LOST in translation, because the exact culture that each of those books came from and spoke to no longer exists... I mean, even looking at modern London English and Modern Los Angeles English, there are differences both in words and in cultural connotations to words, phrases, and statements... That doesn't make communication worthless, just more difficult, hence translation and adaptation becoming a very difficult, incomplete, and imperfect thing... That doesn't negate the bible, but it does make study outside of one translation and such worthwile.

Example: I'm not absolutely sure about this one (tried to look it up on snopes to see if it was just a fun false fact passed around because it sounds comforting) but I've heard that a "Eye of the Needle" is the name of a short gate in walled cities... It's so named because it's so small, and to get a camel in through there (thereby allowing for trade or whathaveyou) you had to get the camel to kneel and crawl, which camels do not like doing... It took a long time and a lot of work and patience, but it was possible for a camel to pass through the "eye of the needle." Therefore, for a rich man to enter heaven is harder than for a poor man, but not impossible...

Another translation problem is words that there is no equivalent for in the language you're translating to... Sometimes that results in very wordy explanations, but usually the case in the King James and other english translations was they used the closes equivalent. One of those includes what many refer to as the "Hem" of the garment that the woman touched on Jesus. It was never a "hem" as, (I'm pretty sure) priests garments don't have hems, but are woven as one piece of cloth. Rather, what she grabbed were ceremonial strings called "tsitsit", which would have much more symbolic meaning than merely touching a hemline. (got this info from "The Complete Jewish Bible") Another such case is the words for love in greek... Even me saying it in that manner isn't accurate, because the words that are translated as "Love" don't all have the same meaning or insinuations to them. That is a more common problem in translation that more people know about, but there is still the less recognized things (can't verify this, but in the CJB, supposedly when Jesus talks about "A dark eye" and "A light eye" he is reffering to being stingy and being generous, respectively) that have nothing to do with direct translation, but have instead to do with coloquialism and proverb. Those things can't always be understood by someone looking back from the present time...

Is the Bible, even our flawed translations (I believe that even the King James scribes said they had made an imperfect translation), still viable and important? Of course! Even if you had perfect understanding of the times and language and culture, you'd still not be able to understand it properly without the Holy Spirit... And you could still misinterpret it if your eyes were clouded... And misinterpretations aren't always serious issues... That's why we need each other, because we help each other understand as well...

Um...

Yeah... These are all merely my opinion, observations, and interpretations. This isn't God speaking or anything, so dont' think I'm sticking to everything I said dogmatically... (some things, maybe, but not everything)

Postby **inkhana** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:48 pm

Wow, that's really interesting...I didn't know about the Eye of the Needle...

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:26 am

Well, like I said I'm not ABSOLUTELY sure about that one... That's just what my old pastor said...

Postby **madphilb** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:16 am

Well put Bob... this is why I get fustrated at the people who put one translation of the Bible above others (I've met people who go so far as to say that any translation besides the one they use isn't the Bible at all). Christians get hung up on the dumbest things at times.

I've heard the "eye of the needle" thing quite a few times myself, and not always by "health and wealth" teachers either.

Speaking of the many loves of the Greek, I ran into an interesting non-Holy Spirit interpretation of Agape.... as it's translated in the AV version (KJV). I've got a verse-a-day type program that a friend of mine and myself wrote, and I was showing off to a bunch of heathens

at work one day (years ago). The verse that came up was about "Faith, Hope, and Love," however the AV translation uses "charity." The one guy I was showing it to was a church-goer (and not much else)... he proceded to explain about how it's better to give to others, etc.

While that isn't the worst thing in the world, it doesn't convey the full meaning of the verse (which is translated in newer versions as "love"). That word charity has changed meaning in the context of modern culture... back in the day when it was used it did fit better to the original word agape.

Again, good show Bob.

Postby **Azier the Swordsman** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:31 am

madphilb wrote:Well put Bob... this is why I get fustrated at the people who put one translation of the Bible above others (I've met people who go so far as to say that any translation besides the one they use isn't the Bible at all). Christians get hung up on the dumbest things at times.

If you think about it, this is one of the biggest tools of the enemy. The bickering among Christians about 'which version' is better causes disunity in the church. They are all basically the exact same thing, just worded differently.

Postby **Shinja** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:10 am

well it really dosent matter wich version you have, its still the word of God , and that word is living and can speak to all who would listen.

Postby **uc pseudonym** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:57 pm

I agree with what Shinja said, in essence. Also, I can confirm what Bobtheduck said about the "Eye of the Needle." Of course, that passage must be understood in the context of the fact that Jesus follows it by saying "...but with God, all things are possible."

Furthermore, I do support the method cbwing0 used to describe scenarios in which Jesus could well watch anime.

I'd like to make a statement about a previously mentioned topic, however, in regard to the "What Would Jesus Drive" campaign. Now, I was never involved with it, nor do I know a lot about it. However, I can say this. The title of the campaign was not so much a logical assertion as a nice label. Their point was that as stewards of Earth, we shouldn't be guzzling its resources.

Postby **cbwing0** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:32 pm

Bobtheduck wrote:I disagree that the bible has things edited out because of translation (though some minor, and mostly , but some points may be LOST in translation, because the exact culture that each of those books came from and spoke to no longer exists... I mean, even looking at modern London English and Modern Los Angeles English, there are differences both in words and in cultural connotations to words, phrases, and statements... That doesn't make communication worthless, just more difficult, hence translation and adaptation becoming a very difficult, incomplete, and imperfect thing... That doesn't negate the bible, but it does make study outside of one translation and such worthwile.

My sentiments exactly. The only thing I would add is that we have thousands of biblical manuscripts available with which to verify the accuracy of our modern translations, in addition to the cultural scholarship mentioned by Bob, allowing us to determine exactly what was intended by the original authors. However, it would have been nice if Volt had a chance to explain his statement before everyone posted on it.

uc pseudonym wrote:The title of the campaign was not so much a logical assertion as a nice label. Their point was that as stewards of Earth, we shouldn't be guzzling its resources.

I did not have an issue with the logic or message of the assertion, but with its manipulatory nature. They could not possibly have known what Jesus would drive, so the slogan was presumptuous. It was an example of the phenomenon that I mentioned in my post. It also opens the way to legalism (what qualifies as an SUV? What about trucks? How many legitimate uses do I need to have before I am not sinning with my SUV?), which is most certainly to be avoided. In fact, it is my opinion that many of the commands were left vague so that people would not be tempted to do this.

Postby **uc pseudonym** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:41 pm

That didn't stop them, of course.

Now that I see the true nature of your issue, I no longer have real problem with it. While we cannot possibly know what Jesus would have done, we can take logical steps to determine what He would want us to do. This is, after all, a significant portion of the Christian faith: using the information given us (the word of God) to determine what God wants us to do.

Postby **cbwing0** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 1:51 pm

uc pseudonym wrote:Now that I see the true nature of your issue, I no longer have real problem with it. While we cannot possibly know what Jesus would have done, we can take logical steps to determine what He would want us to do. This is, after all, a significant portion of the Christian faith: using the information given us (the word of God) to determine what God wants us to do.

Granted. Of course we should seek to apply the commands to our lives, but we should avoid turning such things into dogma. That is another problem I have with the What Would Jesus Drive campaign and similar movements: they try to use the authority of Christ to assert their views on a particular issue over those of others, when it is clear that the bible is not clear on the issue.

Answer to Volt's "What anime would Jesus watch"

Answer to Volt's "What anime would Jesus watch"

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