The Fate of the Chat

[Mangafanatic]

Members of CAA--

The staff as a whole has been observing a somewhat alarming trend here on the boards, and we feel it's time we came out and made an official statement.

CAA is a site where we seek to unite fans of anime under the banner of Christianity. Because we proudly associate ourselves with Christ, we hold this site to a standard much higher than those of a majority of the internet forums you can find in cyber space. We are proud of these standards, because they help to insure that this site properly reflects the seriousness with which we handle the high calling that we, as Christians, have received. (Ephesians 4:1 "Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called.") These standards do not exist simply to give members a difficult time or to hinder "free speech." They exist because we are passionate about CAA being a witness to a lost world and a safe place fo members of all ages.

However, in the past months, it has come to the staff's attention that the witness of the site has come under considerable scrutiny because of comments that are occuring in the chat. Despite our repeated pleading that sexual jokes and the soliciting of romantic attention in the chat stop, we still frequently find these kinds of comments in the chat log, which records every conversation that occurs in the chat. Furthermore, we commonly receive PMs from members who feel that conversations which occurred in their presence were unedifying at best and threatening at worst. In the past, we've handled these situations through the painstaking ordeal of discussing each infraction, deciding upon the appropriate punishment, and permanently revoking the chat priviledge of those who violate the rule we've laid down. Unfortunately, we've come to a place where it doesn't seem even this is affective at keeping the chat clean.

In short, the staff has been forced down a road that ends in a fork. On one side, we have the most logical and logistically feasible solution: simply do away with the chat. On the other hand we have the option to allow our members one more chance to prove that they're responsible enough to keep the chat a friendly and edifying place (which I think you guys are more than capable of doing). We've chosen the latter option, but, if we do not see a drastic change, the chat will be done away with.

In short, this is an ultimatum: follow the rules we've set up for the chat or force us to get rid of it in order to prevent the witness of CAA (and the name of Christ via our behavior) from being smeared by association with crude and inappropriate conversation in the chat.

A few Bible verses to consider:

Eph 4:29
Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.

Php 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

1 Peter 2:12
Be careful how you live among your unbelieving neighbors. Even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will believe and give honor to God when he comes to judge the world.
[Remember, not everyone here at CAA is a Christian.]

[Joshua Christopher]

Might as well get rid of it. There are plenty of IM programs that could serve the same purpose.

[Nate]

Might as well get rid of it. There are plenty of IM programs that could serve the same purpose.

Yeah, because people whose parents won't allow them to have IM programs shouldn't be allowed to fellowship with other CAA people. That would just be wrong.

[Joshua Christopher]

Yeah, because people whose parents won't allow them to have IM programs shouldn't be allowed to fellowship with other CAA people. That would just be wrong.

Well, if people can't keep themselves from acting like morons in the chat, I see no other course of action.

There is a life outside of the internet.

[Mangafanatic]

I don't think Josh meant that by his comment, Nate. I think he was just saying that it was probably inveitable that it would have to be done away with. Regardless, we only have to kill it if the behavior in the chat puts the knife in our hand.

[Nate]

I agree, and I'm not going to act innocent and say that I've done nothing wrong, because I know I've been a screwup. And I'm trying my hardest not to be like that now, because I don't want to see the chat go away. The fact is, I have lots of friends on CAA like CrimsonRyu17 that aren't allowed to have AIM or YIM, and if the chat was to go away, I wouldn't be able to talk with them. Same with Siggy, he's practically never on the boards, but he's almost always in the chat, and it just wouldn't be the same if I couldn't stop by and see Siggy every day.

I understand if things don't get better, the mods will have to shut it down. I realize that, and that's why I hope things do get better, so that doesn't happen. But to just say "You can do the same thing on IM," isn't true, because some people aren't allowed to have IM programs.

[Joshua Christopher]

We still have PMs, guys. I know it's definitely not the optimal form of chatting, but it works.

[Nate]

Yeah, and there are some people who do not accept PMs (I know of at least one person who does not allow other members to send them PMs).

I'm not trying to be difficult with you, Josh, but me and the chat is kinda like you and Giant Robo. You keep telling people how awesome Giant Robo is and they go "Yeah, whatever," and they don't see it like you do. It's the same here. You really don't understand what the chat is to those of us who use it daily, and so trying to explain it to you just doesn't work.

At any rate, we should probably end this back and forth, since this thread could be locked because of it.

[Joshua Christopher]

Yeah, and there are some people who do not accept PMs (I know of at least one person who does not allow other members to send them PMs).

I'm not trying to be difficult with you, Josh, but me and the chat is kinda like you and Giant Robo. You keep telling people how awesome Giant Robo is and they go "Yeah, whatever," and they don't see it like you do. It's the same here. You really don't understand what the chat is to those of us who use it daily, and so trying to explain it to you just doesn't work.

At any rate, we should probably end this back and forth, since this thread could be locked because of it.

Naw, dude, it's fine. I know my fandom comes off very obsessive online, even though it honestly isn't very much at all. I don't see how a discussion is going to get this locked. We're not debating or anything.

All I'm trying to say is that if we can't keep ourselves under control, it's not necessarily a good thing to keep the chat up, for the reasons Osaka stated. I understand what you're saying, but I don't know if that's the best metaphor to use in this situation. I like the series, I tell people to check it out, and I don't care very much if they don't. It's a totally different matter here.

[Lynx]

the chat works?!? i wasnt aware. i just get this white screen thing.

[KhakiBlueSocks]

I may be out of line for saying this...after all I'm not an admin or anything, and if I am, please forgive me...but why not have someone in the chat room during different parts of the day to keep an eye on things and make sure everything is above par. It doesn't even have to be an admin or a mod...just someone who monitors the chats and reports violators to the higher up's.


Once again, sorry if I seem out of line!

[Puritan]

I may be out of line for saying this...after all I'm not an admin or anything, and if I am, please forgive me...but why not have someone in the chat room during different parts of the day to keep an eye on things and make sure everything is above par. It doesn't even have to be an admin or a mod...just someone who monitors the chats and reports violators to the higher up's.

I wouldn't say you are out of line (in my opinion), but from my perspective I can understand the Moderator's reticence to do this. Setting this type of thing us would take a great deal of time (and patience) on the part of the moderators and would require the selection of a large group of vigilantes (for lack of a better term) to enforce. In many ways it would be much simpler to do away with the chat if it can't be used responsibly. I don't think that is a good thing, but if the chat is regularly being misused and is making the whole site look bad, it might be best to ax it. I personally would prefer a reformation of the chat etiquette, but if that doesn't happen I fully understand the move to end it.

[KhakiBlueSocks]

Setting this type of thing us would take a great deal of time (and patience) on the part of the moderators and would require the selection of a large group of vigilantes (for lack of a better term) to enforce.

Granted, but the alternative is losing the chat room, which, while I don't use it THAT much (It freezes on occassion, and nobody's ever really online during the night) other's may my really be dissapointed.

But that's just me...just a very cool black dude who loves socks, and just getting over a cold offering his opinion.

[Joshua Christopher]

Here's the best piece I can add in.

No one is arguing if the chat is a good or bad thing. What we're saying is that if people cannot handle it, we can't keep it. Guys, it's really simple.

Now beforeI go on, please don't think of this as anything political, because it's not.

Anarchy, meaning no governing force to rule over the people. I think at its core, this is a nice concept, man not having man ruling over each other. But as Christians we know that it is never possible, because of man's sin nature. No, as human beings, we know it is logically impossible, because of the way men are. Anarchy would not work for a single day.

In essence, the chat is kinda like anarchy. It is fundamentally a good thing, but not necessarily in execution. Now this is a very extreme comparison, but I think it works. The difference is that if we all work really hard at it, we can ensure the chat will stay. HOWEVER, it *will* need to be axed if we cannot keep ourselves in line.

Deal with it people. Life is not all roses and chocolate rainbows.

[Mithrandir]

Puritan's hit pretty close to the main point. We have enough work just moding the site as it is. I'm not really keen on the 30 minutes it takes me to track down each report. Since no one else has access to the system, I have to do it. Considering how much time I've invested in this thing, it would be a shame to have to close it up.

Lynx: Make sure you are using the "lite skin" and it should be working OK.

[Azier the Swordsman]

the chat works?!? i wasnt aware. i just get this white screen thing.

<mod snip>

The chat does not use java anymore. Please see Mithrandir's post above.

[KhakiBlueSocks]

Deal with it people. Life is not all roses and chocolate rainbows.

How about dandelions and pan sausage clouds?

[Warrior4Christ]

Considering how much time I've invested in this thing, it would be a shame to have to close it up.

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

[Da Rabid Duckie]

All hail Osaka and her l33t politicking skills!

[Stephen]

I just hope you guys can try to crack down on each other more. If you see someone breaking the rules...remind them of this. I know how much some of you love the chat, and it will be a bummer if a few bad apples spoil the bunch.

[Mave]

One of my previous experiences in the chat room was some members disregarding my plea to quit talking about sexual-related stuff (in a crude way, IMO) when they knew that there were minors in the chat.

I actually requested the minor to leave the chatroom because majority rules and anyway, it's not fair to stop free speech. We just -have to- talk about mature stuff, you know.

I'm not sorry for being sarcastic and angry about this because 1) we made the minor was upset 2) ppl generally disregard the gentle reminders Ark suggested (maybe because they'll only listen to mods) 3) some members are old enough to take some responsibility for their words

Frankly, I don't care if the chat goes but I do think the mods/admins are very generous in giving all of us a chance to clean up our acts before killing it altogether.

[bigsleepj]

How about dandelions and pan sausage clouds?

Sausage clouds? And you say I scare you sometimes?

[Stephen]

Oh. And in case someone did not know, you do not have free speech in the chat. CAA is not the 51st state of the Union. It is under our rule. Thus, its not a democracy.

[Yumie]

Oh. And in case someone did not know, you do not have free speech in the chat. CAA is not the 51st state of the Union. It is under our rule. Thus, its not a democracy.

Quite true. Once you type in our web address, you enter CAA land. CAA land is not a democracy, it's a. . . benevolent dictatorship. XD

And in regard to those people who have suggested more moderators keeping an eye on the chat or having other people appointed as, essentially, chat police-- 1) we've tried to keep mods in the chat as often as possible, but we can't be on all day, and sometimes there are days when we can't be on at all because we're just too busy. 2) If we appointed a chat police squad, it seems to me that that would just result in a lot of people being mad at those members for doing the job we gave them (a.k.a. reporting other members and getting them in trouble,) and I wouldn't want to ask that of anyone. 3) Even if we did try to be in there as much as possible and assign chat police, people would just wait until the chat was clear of us to say things they'd never say in a million years if they knew we were in there. I know that people say things in there like that already-- I've seen many instances where a mod comes into the chat right as someone adds something more to an innapropriate conversation, and when we ask for it to be explained, people change the subject like we wouldn't get what they were doing. Problem is, we get it. And that's part of why we have to do this in the first place.

I don't want to see the chat go. I enjoy talking with people. But I don't enjoy feeling like we are putting people in compromising situations, and that is by far more important to me and the rest of the staff. I'm sorry for the people who wouldn't be able to talk to other members anymore, but I can't do anything about that. You all, on the other hand, can. Just clean up your acts, and you'll be fine!

[TurkishMonky]

Quite true. Once you type in our web address, you enter CAA land. CAA land is not a democracy, it's a. . . benevolent dictatorship. XD

Isn't it more of an oligarchy (rule by few?) (well, an oligarchy ruled by mithrander, since he could always physically run away with the sever and end CAA permenantly )

Besides that, I do hope that the chat stays up, and that members are mature enough to keep it clean. One option, though, if problems do keep occuring in the chat, is to maybe only turn it on for a few hours a week, with a mod in there during those few hours.

[Mangafanatic]

Besides that, I do hope that the chat stays up, and that members are mature enough to keep it clean. One option, though, if problems do keep occuring in the chat, is to maybe only turn it on for a few hours a week, with a mod in there during those few hours.

Even then, there'd be no guarantee that one of us could be in the chat then. For the most part, me, Yumie, Ark, and Mith are the mods in the chat, and I can't imagine any schedule under which it could be guaranteed that one of us could be in there. Still, thanks for your suggestion and your interest.

[Gypsy]

In a perfect world, mods would not be needed in a Christian chat. However, since we're not in a Wallgreen's commercial, we'll be in there as much as possible, but we're going to have to depend on some of the more mature members to keep it clean. Besides, most of the time, a mod is only an IM or PM away.

[Mangafanatic]

Besides, most of the time, a mod is only an IM or PM away.

Give that woman a brownie point! XD Gypsy hit the nail on the head! If you think someone's ruining the whole chat with his/her behavior and you've got proof (Proof=hard and fast copy/paste evidence), send it to a mod! Even if we're not in the chat, we will handle it.

[FadedOne]

I continually realize why miss mangafanatic was mod'd. She's got l33t democractic skills. as i believe someone else said. anyone else putting up notices like this might get flamed. *raises toast to her*

yea...this sucks. but oh well. surely we can all keep in line and keep the chat...right? right? oh yea..we're screwed. XD no in all seriousness, this can work. i just hope that everyone watches what they say and no one person ruins the chat-option for all of us. hey, caa chat is how i keep myself alive after classes. must...not....lose!!

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I thank you for posting this, as the problem did seem quite persistent. Even worse among young teenagers. I also noticed a smiliar trend where someone would pretend to need pity or attention. Such as saying "I feel so lonely T__T I want to feel loved, will somebody give me an over-the-chatroom hug so I can feel all better?" or something. It is a cry for attention, and I do not like it.