4th TRIFORCE: It must exist

[Cognitive Gear]

Besides...
One basic point of proof that you guys are looking at that i have already stated... the fourth triforce is ON THE HYLIAN SHIELD in OoT!!!!

It really just looks like it was simply a matter of making the shield itself look cool. After all, there is a pheonix on the shield too, but I don't see any pheonix's in zelda....

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Besides...
One basic point of proof that you guys are looking at that i have already stated... the fourth triforce is ON THE HYLIAN SHIELD in OoT!!!!

errrr that is kind of a stretch there

[Linksquest]

errrr that is kind of a stretch there

why is it a stretch? it's on the shield...

It really just looks like it was simply a matter of making the shield itself look cool. After all, there is a pheonix on the shield too, but I don't see any pheonix's in zelda....

... Yet. And also... How do you know that it is meant to be taken literally...

The red Phoenix could represent something preventing the fourth from being with the other three. or something that took it away, or could represent the fourth goddess herself. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't happen.

[Nate]

why is it a stretch? it's on the shield...

It's a stretch because you are taking evidence that doesn't really mean anything and using it to try and conclusively prove a point. That's called conjecture, and doesn't hold up in a court of law.

"The murderer strangled his victim with his left hand...but he didn't use his right hand...meaning that obviously, the murderer has only ONE HAND!"

You see? While that MIGHT be true, it's a ridiculous conclusion from the evidence. It's the same with the piece on the shield.

I see you didn't touch my comments on the Triforce of Zora. Yet I did the exact same thing you did. I made a ridiculous conclusion, and then took things that mean nothing (the three guards, Jabu-Jabu's deityhood, and uc's comment about how long it took King Zora to move two feet to the right), and made them support my theory.

So do you agree with my Triforce of Zora theory? I've done the exact same thing you've done, so if you say my conclusions are absurd, then by your own definition your arguments are absurd.

And again. The Zelda games take place in different universes. So while the fourth Triforce theory COULD hold true for some games, it doesn't for all of them.

[Cognitive Gear]

Ok, I got one for you:

(this is meant as a stretch)

Look at link's mirror sheld! It has the Islamic moon/star symbol on it!So the truth unfolds. Link is really on a holy jihad.

Is this believable to you?

[Linksquest]

Ok, I got one for you:

(this is meant as a stretch)

Look at link's mirror sheld! It has the Islamic moon/star symbol on it!So the truth unfolds. Link is really on a holy jihad.

Is this believable to you?

hmmn mebbe because they were supposed to look like that nationality in the first place... its not a stretch that Miyamoto would give them symbols similar to their real life counterparts.

Link also had a Cross in the first two games on his shield... does that mean he's a crusade? These are real world symbols... symbolizing real world things.

It's a stretch because you are taking evidence that doesn't really mean anything and using it to try and conclusively prove a point. That's called conjecture, and doesn't hold up in a court of law.

"The murderer strangled his victim with his left hand...but he didn't use his right hand...meaning that obviously, the murderer has only ONE HAND!"

You see? While that MIGHT be true, it's a ridiculous conclusion from the evidence. It's the same with the piece on the shield.

I see you didn't touch my comments on the Triforce of Zora. Yet I did the exact same thing you did. I made a ridiculous conclusion, and then took things that mean nothing (the three guards, Jabu-Jabu's deityhood, and uc's comment about how long it took King Zora to move two feet to the right), and made them support my theory.

So do you agree with my Triforce of Zora theory? I've done the exact same thing you've done, so if you say my conclusions are absurd, then by your own definition your arguments are absurd.

And again. The Zelda games take place in different universes. So while the fourth Triforce theory COULD hold true for some games, it doesn't for all of them.

Ok... that reply was not directed towards you...

And who says it doesn't mean anything? You did.... Just because you say it doesn't mean anything... doesn't make it mean nothing... I could say that symbolism in any book movie, etc. mean nothing... but when there is obvious symbols that point to something... they do mean something... A fourth Triforce means nothing... good ... be blind to the evidence.

I think the fourth Triforce piece HAS to be the Triforce of Zora! The Zoras have been in every game! Also, in Oracle of Ages, there are three Zora guards standing around the King, signifying the Triforce! And Jabu-Jabu is the god of the Zora, and since it takes a god to make a Triforce piece, he must be the deity in charge of the fourth piece!

Making fun of me doesn't make your statements any more valid. Just because they call Jabu-Jabu the god of the Zoras does not make him one. I can call this keyboard im typing on a god... doesn't make it a real deity with power... Jabu-Jabu is big and obviously could eat the Zoras... many cultures in the past have worshipped what they feared... doesn't make them really deities.

My references have directly to do with the existance of the fourth... and direct symbolism about the shape of the triforce and color coding references... the Zora thing sounds as ridiculous as you meant it to be... But a ridiculous statement doesn't make a valid one less valid.

[Nate]

Let's look at the shields from the Zelda games, shall we?


Ooh, a cross. This makes Link a holy warrior of Christ, doesn't it? It means that Christianity must be the national religion of Hyrule. Or maybe it's just to make the shield look cool.


The Hero's shield from Majora's Mask. No fourth piece there...but there IS a Triforce symbol...hmm.


The shield from Wind Waker. Note that according to the game, this is likely the same shield used by the Hero of Time. Note also the lack of a fourth Triforce piece, and that OoT and WW take place in the same universe.


The Deku Shield. Neat little symbol. What does it mean? Probably nothing. Just there to make it look cool.


The Mirror Shield from MM. Note the face on it...is it a symbol that the Mirror Shield was made from a human soul? That he is forever trapped with that expression of fear? Probably not.

Here's the most interesting, though.


The shield from Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages. Note there are TWO triangles at the top of the shield.

GASP! The evidence is clear! There must be a FIFTH Triforce piece! The shield says so! It's conclusive evidence! Note that two triangles make a square, so you can't say that it's the fourth piece broken in two. Because that would make it a square. So anyway, YES! The fifth Triforce piece MUST exist! The shield says so!

Now do you see how your evidence is invalid?

[Mr. SmartyPants]

the deku sheidl has the same symbol thats on the green forest emerld thing you get int he deku tree (the gold part of the relic)

[Linksquest]

Note there are TWO triangles at the top of the shield.

GASP! The evidence is clear! There must be a FIFTH Triforce piece! The shield says so! It's conclusive evidence! Note that two triangles make a square, so you can't say that it's the fourth piece broken in two. Because that would make it a square. So anyway, YES! The fifth Triforce piece MUST exist! The shield says so!

Now do you see how your evidence is invalid?

the oracle games were made by capcom... not nintendo, meaning that mebbe just not everything they did with that game was as it was suposed to be...

there was supposed to be a third oracle game that was never made. Was it planned to come out? Yes. Did it? No.

two triforces on the side may symbolize the ages and seasons as there are two games... two elements "seasons" and "time" Jutting from the power Triforce... Power of Seasons, Power of Time. Which is the Staff and the Harp respectively.


Yes, there is a method to the sanity

[Cognitive Gear]

hmmn mebbe because they were supposed to look like that nationality in the first place... its not a stretch that Miyamoto would give them symbols similar to their real life counterparts.

Link also had a Cross in the first two games on his shield... does that mean he's a crusade? These are real world symbols... symbolizing real world things.

Last I checked Islam wasn't a nationality, it was a religon. And as for your second one.....

If it is supposed to "symbolize" a real life counter part, it would need something to go along with that symbolism.... like a political statment. Which I don't see much of in these games.

Besides, the shield itself is circumstantial evidence. Even you have to admit that it could just be a coincidence.

[uc pseudonym]

This took far too long...

I'm just presenting some info I saw. Not saying I agree with it or not

I assumed you were just contributing something you had read to the discussion, and I think kaemmerite did as well. So we weren't attacking you, just giving (admittedly acidic) comments about the theory.

Oh wait... it all makes sence now! There is a 4th triforce peice... 10 actually. In the original NES game, the triforce of wisdom was broken into 8 pieces! so.... 8 + the original 2.... equals 10!

Actually, this brings up one very valid point: the idea of the Triforce has probably evolved over time. I don't think there was a fully developed idea of Power/Wisdom/Courage parts in the first game (though I could be wrong). Similarly, if Nintendo wanted to make a Fourth Triforce, they could do that too.

mebbe it because each piece is a triangle... and why each piece is called separately the Triforce of Power, Triforce of Courage, Triforce of Wisdom. A Fourth Triforce (Triangle) fitting in the middle would make the current triforce a giant three pointed triangle... TRI = 3 people.

I'm fairly certain that if they made another piece, they would actually say that the three pieces we know are actually just fragments of the real Triforce, called thus because it is a triangle.

Um....who cares?

Let`s just stop debating about thinking outside of the game. We can decide what we think about videogames. We don`t need to try to change the other person`s mind.

I do think this is somewhat unnecessary. However, it is valid to point out that no one needs to get too upset over this. That having been said, I'm finding this discussion somewhat interesting and occasionally humorous.

One basic point of proof that you guys aren't looking at that i have already stated... the fourth triforce is ON THE HYLIAN SHIELD in OoT!!!!

Now I shall apply a level of thought that was probably never intended...

That shield is apparently standard issue, as you can receive multiple ones and a Hylian guard can give you a discount. Therefore, they are made by some Hylian artisan and have some sort of tie to the royal family. If that is truly a mystical fourth piece of the Triforce, how did they obtain knowledge of it? Furthermore, why wouldn't they mention it when describing the origins of the Triforce? For that matter, if the Triforce was sealed in the Temple of Time, what about this fourth piece? Was it sealed as well? If not, why not?

But there is a fourth... Oni Link... (Fierce Deity Link)

Given that there are four dungeons on the Moon, I think it is more fair to say the fourth "form" is Link himself. Oni Link is another issue altogether, and a fairly randomly added one, in my mind. Not that I didn't like it.

... Yet. And also... How do you know that it is meant to be taken literally...

The red Phoenix could represent something preventing the fourth from being with the other three. or something that took it away, or could represent the fourth goddess herself. Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't happen.

I don't see a reason to interpret part of it literally and part of it symbolically. On that subject, since when has the Legend of Zelda series ever done much with symbolism? Not exactly classic literature.

Look at link's mirror sheld! It has the Islamic moon/star symbol on it!So the truth unfolds. Link is really on a holy jihad.

Link also had a Cross in the first two games on his shield... does that mean he's a crusade? These are real world symbols... symbolizing real world things.

It seems fairly obvious to me that Link has switched sides in what is obviously representative of the war over the Holy Land. Most likely this is because the game developers changed religions midway through the series. Look for a Link sporting a Star of David in Twilight Princess!

Just because you say it doesn't mean anything... doesn't make it mean nothing

This doesn't invalidate what you said, but yes, that is exactly what it means.

Making fun of me doesn't make your statements any more valid.

I cannot truly speak for kaemmerite, but I'm fairly certain his intent wasn't to make fun of you. He explained it thus earlier:

I've done the exact same thing you've done, so if you say my conclusions are absurd, then by your own definition your arguments are absurd.

He is saying that if a method can be shown to reach false conclusions, we should not view it as proof. This seems very reasonable to me.

Or maybe it's just to make the shield look cool.

I personally think it was to make it obvious it is a shield (because with low-pixel graphics there could be confusion). The cross is associated with shields because of Crusades, so many would make the connection.

The Deku Shield. Neat little symbol. What does it mean? Probably nothing. Just there to make it look cool.

Note that it has three curling lines.

[Nate]

Actually, this brings up one very valid point: the idea of the Triforce has probably evolved over time. I don't think there was a fully developed idea of Power/Wisdom/Courage parts in the first game (though I could be wrong).

If I remember correctly, only Wisdom and Power were in the first game...Wisdom being split into 8 pieces, and Power being the one Ganon held. Courage first showed up in Zelda II.

He is saying that if a method can be shown to reach false conclusions, we should not view it as proof. This seems very reasonable to me.

Ultimately, yeah. Well, for me, it's because I'm an engineer/scientist, and as such, it's bad science to start with a conclusion and then gather evidence to support it. Rather, you must gather evidence and THEN reach a conclusion based on the evidence you have gathered, whether you like the conclusion or not.

That's what I was trying to say. ^^

Note that it has three curling lines.

Yeah, I thought about that. But I checked on Google Image search and found out that what Ryan said is true, the symbol on the shield is the same as the gold trim around the Kokiri Emerald.

[Linksquest]

Last I checked Islam wasn't a nationality, it was a religon. And as for your second one.....

If it is supposed to "symbolize" a real life counter part, it would need something to go along with that symbolism.... like a political statment. Which I don't see much of in these games.

Besides, the shield itself is circumstantial evidence. Even you have to admit that it could just be a coincidence.

hmmn... wow... You are trying to be picky aren't you... i meant the nationality that usually is equated with the religion of Islam...


Wow... It Could be, posiibly a coincidence... is that really admitting anything? Much of the evidence depends on how you look at it. I choose my views, you choose yours... though i believe that the evidence is inclined towards my point of view.

That shield is apparently standard issue, as you can receive multiple ones and a Hylian guard can give you a discount. Therefore, they are made by some Hylian artisan and have some sort of tie to the royal family. If that is truly a mystical fourth piece of the Triforce, how did they obtain knowledge of it? Furthermore, why wouldn't they mention it when describing the origins of the Triforce? For that matter, if the Triforce was sealed in the Temple of Time, what about this fourth piece? Was it sealed as well? If not, why not?

Like i said before

The Triforce of Shadow has to do with death, and the afterlife. What can conquer Wisdom, Courage, and Power? Death can. In theory, if the fourth triforce piece was joined with the other three, the entire world might end, as well as the goddesses themselves because it would bring death and destruction to the Courage, Wisdom, and Power.
The sorts of power that one might yield with the Triforce of Shadow may include controlling those who are in the Shadow Realm, or those who are dead: ghosts, zombies, etc. as well as perhaps causing death to all living things. The fourth triforce is thus arguably the most powerful of the four.

It wouldn't be placed with the other three because it CANNOT be with the other three.

I do think this is somewhat unnecessary. However, it is valid to point out that no one needs to get too upset over this. That having been said, I'm finding this discussion somewhat interesting and occasionally humorous.

I don't find it humorous.

[uc pseudonym]

Yeah, I thought about that. But I checked on Google Image search and found out that what Ryan said is true, the symbol on the shield is the same as the gold trim around the Kokiri Emerald.

Yes, it is definitely the Kokiri symbol (I think it can be found in a few other places, though I can't confirm that). I just found it amusing to note because of how thoroughly pointless it was.

Wow... It Could be, posiibly a coincidence... is that really admitting anything? Much of the evidence depends on how you look at it. I choose my views, you choose yours... though i believe that the evidence is inclined towards my point of view.

The point of the statement wasn't that it could be interpreted as a coincidence, merely that we have no real reason to believe otherwise. I realize you disagree with what I just said, but it is so instrinsic to this discussion there isn't a need to quarrel over it. My only intent was to clarify.

It wouldn't be placed with the other three because it CANNOT be with the other three.

Fair enough. That answers one question, the "why." Those were secondary]others[/i] would have to understand it as well (and if, in keeping with your answer, this fourth Triforce represents death, why would a benevolant country want it on their shield?). If both of those statements are true, it seems odd that there is never any reference to this theoretical piece, especially given all the concern about the Triforce.

[Linksquest]

If I remember correctly, only Wisdom and Power were in the first game...Wisdom being split into 8 pieces, and Power being the one Ganon held. Courage first showed up in Zelda II.

You're right...

I agree with UC that there wasn't a working concept of teh triforce until later. In the cartoons there is the Triforce of Power and Triforce of Wisdom... where wisdom actually speaks... lol...

I think that the later concept of the fourth did not develop until later... that nintendo didn't have it as something they were keeping from fans... but something they came up with later on and alluded to in recent games.

Fair enough. That answers one question, the "why." Those were secondary]others[/i] would have to understand it as well (and if, in keeping with your answer, this fourth Triforce represents death, why would a benevolant country want it on their shield?). If both of those statements are true, it seems odd that there is never any reference to this theoretical piece, especially given all the concern about the Triforce.

Family: Probably a secret because they know of the destructive force it is and do not want to alarm the general public.

i know... "not a big secret because it's on the shields" see below.

Knowledge of the symbol: Not everyone in the Mexico Knows why they have a snake on their flag, nor do many americans relize what certain symbols stand for on our currency, such as the one eyed pyramid... they recognize the symbol ... but not real reasons for which it stands.

They, like some other people who have commented, probably see it only as a "triangle" or "decoration" not as the fourth Triforce.