need adivce about hell.

[starstoryteller]

Yes I know there is place called hell. But I need biblical proof.
You see I was confronted by Jehovahs Witness and they don’t believe in hell.
Please help gather scriptures together on this thread.

Matthew 5:2222But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[a]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[b]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 5:2929If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell

Matthew 10:2828Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

Matthew 16:18 (The Message) 18And now I'm going to tell you who you are, really are. You are Peter, a rock. This is the rock on which I will put together my church, a church so expansive with energy that not even the gates of hell will be able to keep it out.

[JezusBoy]

Yes I know there is place called hell. But I need biblical proof.
You see I was confronted by Jehovahs Witness and they don’t believe in hell.
Please help gather scriptures together on this thread.

Matthew 5:2222But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[a]will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[b]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 5:2929If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell

Matthew 10:2828Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

Matthew 16:18 (The Message) 18And now I'm going to tell you who you are, really are. You are Peter, a rock. This is the rock on which I will put together my church, a church so expansive with energy that not even the gates of hell will be able to keep it out.

Here's one Luke 16:22-23. It's about the rich man in the lazarus story.
Theirs also the lake of fire(where the people in hell go) Revelations 21:8

Hope those help. I'll try to keep my eyes open for more. See ya!

-JezusBoy

[Sephiroth]

heh heh, this reminds me of back when i was at school, of a conversation i had with a guy in my class wo was a jehovas witness, when you show them those verses they may say that teh word 'hell' is not in the original greek/hebrew in any of the text. TAt its Gehenna, the lake of fire. hell & gehenna = the exact same thing, as far as i remember hell is the english word the translator used most of the time. they may try to throw you off with little stuff like that.

Revalation 20:13 The sea gave up its dead, and death & hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged each one of them according to their works.

Revalation 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

[starstoryteller]

Oh jezz. They threw that Gehenna angle on me.

[CrossMovement]

Jehova's Witnesses have a completely different bible then other christians.I spoke to a Jehovah's witness and they said they dont believe in hell or in the Holy Trinity which of course you guys know consists of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost(Them not believing that is a whole different story...) but Hell is real because without Hell there wouldnt be a balance.Let me give you an example.The bible verse explained in the earlier posts are great examples.But check this out.Exodus 3:8 says "And I am to come down to deliver them out of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land to a good land and a large,to a land flowing with milk and honey"

There's more in that one verse but lets leave it there.This little verse and teaching was taught to me by a pastor I know.Milk is one of the quickest expiring type of food(or drink) ever.Honey is one of the longest lasting.There's a balance even amongst the Israelites under God.Which means there will be good times and bad times in the holy land.The bible if you look good enough is about balance.Which brings to the point of Heaven.If there is a heaven and no hell....there is no balance.Technically if there is no hell,what would God save us from?Why would have Jesus came down and died on the cross for us?Technically,if there is no hell,then what with Satan?Where does his kingdom lie?If you notice about the bible,the bible has been about balance.I could give more examples but you know what I mean

[SP1]

The Bible doesn't provide a lot of explicit detail about hell, and for good reason: You don't need to worry about it! In a lot of locations in the New Testament, the word we now translate as hell (Sheol) is really used by the Jews (in Jerusalem) to refer to a communal trash pit. So you can think of God's Judgement as picking out the good fruit and throwing the rest into the trash pit. The trash isn't also punished - denial from usefulness in the Kingdom of God is already bad enough. Think about it.

Perhaps God ensured that the concept of Hell was reasonably unspecified so as to appeal to more people (the message, not going to hell). That is, some people are motivated to follow God out of fear for the alternative. They might need the "eternal torture" message. Others are motivated by a loving, just God, and cannot reconcile that with eternal punishment after just one life to "get it right."

Personally, I find witnessing that involves the "convert or look what will happen to you" to be excessively confrontational and a turn-off. There are a lot of things in the Bible other than hell that are left for the Spirit to inspire you. Like, what is heaven like?

Don't worry about it. If you are not confortable witnessing to anyone go help someone else.

[Sennin]

The Bible doesn't provide a lot of explicit detail about hell, and for good reason: You don't need to worry about it! In a lot of locations in the New Testament, the word we now translate as hell (Sheol) is really used by the Jews (in Jerusalem) to refer to a communal trash pit. So you can think of God's Judgement as picking out the good fruit and throwing the rest into the trash pit. The trash isn't also punished - denial from usefulness in the Kingdom of God is already bad enough. Think about it.

Perhaps God ensured that the concept of Hell was reasonably unspecified so as to appeal to more people (the message, not going to hell). That is, some people are motivated to follow God out of fear for the alternative. They might need the "eternal torture" message. Others are motivated by a loving, just God, and cannot reconcile that with eternal punishment after just one life to "get it right."

Personally, I find witnessing that involves the "convert or look what will happen to you" to be excessively confrontational and a turn-off. There are a lot of things in the Bible other than hell that are left for the Spirit to inspire you. Like, what is heaven like?

Don't worry about it. If you are not confortable witnessing to anyone go help someone else.

That's an interesting understanding of hell, but condemnation to hell not only involves the disdain of good men: the condemned also suffer. I think the most complete description of this punishment is found in Isaiah 66:23-24:

"All mankind shall come to worship before me, says the Lord. They shall go out and see the corpses of the men who rebelled against me; their worm shall not die, nor their fire be extinguished; and they shall be abhorrent to all mankind."

This place can clearly be equated to hell because of the everlasting punishment of those who have undergone the second death.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

one thing you can do is compare your translation with the new world translation. (the JW bible) You can find them around on the net

[Kaligraphic]

Wait until you get "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life".

After all, perish basically just means die. That kind of precludes having eternal life in hell.

[K. Ayato]

True, but "perish" in the context of John 3:16 involves being separated from God forever, or in other verses, the second death.

[Maledicte]

Isn't hell separation from God anyway?

You think, to be cut off from an eternal loving God would be hell, even if just in a metaphorical sense.

[K. Ayato]

Good point. I guess in a way it makes sense.

But then, keep in mind that Hell was originally created for the Devil and his angels, as Jesus points out in Matthew's Gospel. However, when sin entered the world, Hell had to also include the lost.

[Slater]

how about the whole "lake of fire" thing?

BTW, what do you guys think about the idea that hell is in earth? eg, under the crust? Afterall, a hole in the earth 100 miles wide could contain all the bodies of everyone who's ever lived. Not saying that hell for sure is in the earth, but it seems plausible, ne? Also, some scientists say that sometimes they've heard tormented screams when they are near lava flows... with noone else around...

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

I believe Heaven and Hell are spiritual realms outside time and space. In a different 'dimension' so to speak. I doubt Hell is literally below our feet and Heaven way up high in the sky. But who knows? Only God.

[Midori]

Anyone heard that story about this guy who visits Hell and Heaven? This guy sees an angel, who takes him to look at Hell, and there's a group of people at a table with a bowl of nice-smelling soup in the middle. Everybody has a long spoon attached to their arm, long enough that they can't bring the end to their mouth, and they're really hungry. Well anyway, the angel takes the guy up to see heaven, and he sees a room, and it's exactly the same. Table, bowl of soup, long spoons etc. But the people there are reaching across the table and feeding eachother.

[JezusBoy]

how about the whole "lake of fire" thing?

BTW, what do you guys think about the idea that hell is in earth? eg, under the crust? Afterall, a hole in the earth 100 miles wide could contain all the bodies of everyone who's ever lived. Not saying that hell for sure is in the earth, but it seems plausible, ne? Also, some scientists say that sometimes they've heard tormented screams when they are near lava flows... with noone else around...

I heard an interesting theory about that too. Because the center is expanding and causing earthquakes and eruptions, so, is it getting full with people in hell? hmmmmmmmmmmm... interesting theory.

[JezusBoy]

Just thought I'd mention that I believe that hell and the lake of fire are 2 different things. Hell is where unsaved people first go untill the final judgment then they are cast into the lake of fire forever.

KJV Rev 20:13-15
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[Arnobius]

Originally posted by Slater:
how about the whole "lake of fire" thing?

BTW, what do you guys think about the idea that hell is in earth? eg, under the crust? Afterall, a hole in the earth 100 miles wide could contain all the bodies of everyone who's ever lived. Not saying that hell for sure is in the earth, but it seems plausible, ne? Also, some scientists say that sometimes they've heard tormented screams when they are near lava flows... with noone else around...

I heard an interesting theory about that too. Because the center is expanding and causing earthquakes and eruptions, so, is it getting full with people in hell? hmmmmmmmmmmm... interesting theory.

Ah yes that old one. Came up frequently along with many other internet rumors.

This Link might be informative.

[JezusBoy]

Ah yes that old one. Came up frequently along with many other internet rumors.

This Link might be informative.

Do tell...others?(listening intently)

[Arnobius]

Do tell...others?(listening intently)

Other rumors you mean?

Like Madeline Murray O'hair wanting to make it illegal for Christian Broadcasts on the airwaves

[Puritan]

Heh, I got a chain e-mail from a friend about that. Sent him a link to the FCC's web page about the rumor after searching for five minutes. Fascinating how quick people are to latch on to this type of thing.

The Jehovas Witnesses have latched onto the fact that the Bible does not explicitly use the word hell but they are missing the point entirely. The Bible is VERY explicit about an eternal judgement for wrong doers, and it expresses this judgement with the biblical images of fire, darkeness, weeping, and gnashing of teeth. These images are likely only a shadow of what hell is like, for God's wrath against sin is vast beyond our comprehension. Thus, it is unsurprising that there are no exact descriptions of hell in the Bible. You can also ask them this, where are the exact images of heaven? The Bible once again uses images and descriptors to give but a shadow of the things to come, for the things themselves are beyond our comprehension.

Crass people such as the Jehovas Witnesses usually inquire tirelessly about empty, unanswerable questions and go around in philosophical circles to avoid the lordship of God. They often don't even want an answer, they simply want to try to prove their view of God and will continue to provide unanswerable questions until doomsday. Only God can truly change their minds, the best thing to do is to pray for them and speak as reasonably with them as you can.

[Dreamywingz]

I've met Jehovah's Witnesses before and I will say, yes, I do feel for them. As someone who is going all over the world in ministry someday, I have to love them too even though they're ideas grate my nerves sometimes. The Bible says that Satan does not want the truth coming out so easily and fast, so he twists it and makes things into lies that are sometimes so convincing that those who are weak in spirit or in understand of the word fall on their faces. As carriers of the Faith, we can say what needs to be said and yes, pray for them. But when it comes to talking to people, we can only say so much if they choose not to listen. Such as fleshly nature, rebellion against God. I have studied some stuff on Hell and what I've gathered helped me grow in knowledge alot. Let me advise a book discussing it very well and clear:

"BEWARE THE LIES OF SATAN"
by Fred K. Price

It's a very concise book and it gives so much insight to hell, heaven, devil, works of devil, etc...go pick it up at a local bookstore or order it somehow, you'll be amazed and be much stronger. Ja ne!

[Jaltus-bot]

As I understand, JWs are annihilationists in there view of hell. I did my english research paper this fall on annihilationism versus eternal suffering. Because scripture can be twisted one way or another, I would recommend you read some outside sources to help strengthen your understanding of how they fit together to form a cohesive view of hell. That is one thing that really helped me sort out how I might handle certain objections to eternal suffering that were given.

[KA1-EG13]

JW's are not the only one who hold an annihilationist view. The 7th day adventist church is the same way as well. ( I should know considering I was fooled by that false doctrine once.

In fact most cults hold the annihiationist view, though I don't care to list them all.

I'm not sure about the whole "drilling to hell" thing in the link, but I did hear the recording of the sounds the drillers and scientists heard. It freaked me out a good deal. Whether its real or not I'm not sure.

[Theoglaphore]

I believe that the JW have the age old problem of throwing the baby out with the bath water (pardon the old saying)

I am also one that believes that the lake of fire and hell are two different things, and there is scritural evidence to support it* (such as the verse mentioned earlier out of Revelation) Seeing that the view of Hell was a little off, the JWs got rid of it entirely. I find that that this is how most herecies get started. After all, the best lies are part truth.

I believe the best way to combat this kind of herecy is to first admit where we were wrong (if we were wrong) and correct it. When we do this it weakens their position (and gets us back to where we should be). Then we can discuss the issue of the eternality of the lake of fire with them.


* There are three words that are translated hell in the new testament: ghahennah (a trash heap out side of jerusalem, a very unclean place that would have been torture for un upstanding jew of the day) Hades (in greek mythology this is where all the dead were kept) and Tartaroo (in greek mythology a deep pit in hades).

it is interesting to note that all the times in the new testiment that the word hell is used in conjuction with fire or destruction, the word is ghehennah. When hell is described as being throne into the lake of fire, the word is hades.

[IZ&Trigun4life]

It is better to enter the kingdom half blind than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where the worm never dies, and the fire never goes out. -Mark 9:47
For everyone is purified with fire. -Mark 9:50
Because Fire is mentioned so many times, along with the separation from God...I think both are equally part of Hell.