For Mecha fans.

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For Mecha fans.

Postby Arnobius » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:48 pm

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Postby Steeltemplar » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:39 am

That thing looks pretty rickety and you could easily outrun it at a walking pace. But even so, that's an awesome link. lol.
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Postby Wise Dragon » Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:59 am

WAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want one for christmas!!!!!
*dies of envy*

*flips into corny Solid Snake imitation* Otakon look someone stole another Metal Gear.
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Postby wilson1112000 » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:04 am

It has an interesting design, and the tecnological advances in robotics in the last ten years, I wouldn't be suprised if you find one on those ( With some modifications) being on the battle field in the next ten to tweenty years.
Praise the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your might, for that is what we were created for.
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Postby Godly Paladin » Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:00 pm

That's pretty impressive, although I don't think we'll ever see mecha in a combat zone, unless it's in the far, far, far future. Here's a good argument as to why:

Wikipedia wrote:The question of whether mecha could ever be used in the real world as practical war machines is a widely debated topic on many mecha forums (usually among mecha enthusiasts vs. utilitarians). Due to their intended purpose, mecha are usually compared to tanks (or in Gundam or Macross's case, fighters).

The major advantage usually cited promoting mecha over tanks is the mecha's use of legs, which emulates a human's ability to traverse almost any kind of terrain, thus giving a mecha superior all-terrain capability. However, the use of legs means that all of the machine's weight is focused on two relatively small points. Considering that most mecha are depicted as very large and heavy, this could cause severe problems if the mecha were to traverse any kind of soft terrain where its legs could sink into the ground, and inhibit movement. This is in contrast to a tank's treads which spread its weight out over a much larger area, reducing the weight burden on any given point. In addition, the tank's treads emulate the method a caterpiller uses to move, which gives it excellent all terrain movement. However, treads do have their limitations when it comes to all terrain movement. Numerous medium sized objects like dragon's teeth can severely limit or even stop a tank's ability to move. Such an obstacle might not be an issue for a bipedal mech with legs.

Also often pointed out is the agility of a mecha, which can in theory move in an unpredictable manner to present a more difficult target and/or dodge incoming fire. In the context of 21st century projectile weapons, dodging such attacks would be just as absurd as any human being able to do so. However, it would be possible for mechas to reduce their targetability through agility. In order to accomplish this, a mecha would need to have a range of motion very similar to a human being. This range of motion precludes the battlefield use of the vast majority of mecha depictions, which tend to be limited in range of movement (like BattleTech mechs) or which have mechanical control systems that limit the range of movement by limiting the range of controls.

Linear top speed is another restriction upon mechas, as they would be limited both in how quickly their legs could cycle while running, and by the amount of stress the legs could take from impacts on the ground while doing so (to say nothing of how the ground would react!). This restriction could be mitigated by the use of an alternate mode of travel, but the frequent depiction of flying as this secondary mode would likely turn a battlefield into a trap shoot for opposing units.

Another advantage stressed is the higher clearance a mecha has compared to the relatively low profile tank. Its higher vantage point allows it to see farther into the horizon, shoot farther, and at better angles. However, this is also a disadvantage, as a mecha presents a much larger target profile as a result of its stance. Raising a mech's clearance increases its frontal projection area, making it a very obvious, and easy to hit target. The stance of a mecha also means that the use of armour for protection-by-deflection would not be of use, as armour plates are more likely to be "square on" to incoming fire from the ground. Oddly, the opposite could be said to be true of incoming fire from the air.

Utilitarians also point out that a mech's leg drive system would be far too complex and costly to be practical on the battlefield. This is in contrast to a tank's tread system, which is easy to repair and replace should the need arise. Another criticism involves a mecha's inherently poor stability. A tank is very low, and close to the ground which not only makes it harder to hit, but makes it very stable. A mecha is tall and can easily fall down, making it extremely vunerable if not completely useless. Also destroying a leg in combat, (a relatively easy thing to do, considering it's size compared to a tank's tread), would also render the mecha immobile and out of action.

Another use for mecha, as opposed to replacing tanks would be for them to function in a similar manner to aerospace or convential fighters, as is depicted in various Gundam shows or Macross. The notion of a "flying robot" is sometimes considered absurd, until mecha enthusiasts point out the Mecha's ability to take advantage of AMBAC. However the ability to properly debate how such a machine would function in the real world is currently impossible due to an inability to test it. Despite that, some point out that even if AMBAC were to work, its concept would be better utilized in non-mecha designs.

It is also possible, that rather then replacing tanks, a mech could be used for urban combat senarios in an infantry support role. Such a mecha would probably only be 5-7 meters tall and would be verging on power armor. The size of such a mecha would enable it to carry heavy weapons that would otherwise be unavalible to an infantry squad, yet its legs would allow it to manuever more freely than a tank in the close confines of an urban environment. Furthermore the presence of actuated arms would allow a mecha to deal with infantry that manage to get into direct physical contact with the mech, something that tanks are currently unable to do. In addition it would grant several enhanced prehensile attributes unavailable to vehicles and improved over infantry capabilities. The paved roads of an urban environment would also negate the problems of weight distribution. Despite this, a mecha in an urban environment faces the difficulty of manuever, the sheer amount of clutter that can be present in urban terrain might prove too much for a mechs gyroscopes to handle. And also due to its much smaller size, an urban combat mecha could be blocked by tank traps, and other kinds of barricades.

Another consideration for military use of mecha would be for non-combat support functions. The example in the movie Aliens is one such depiction, where the vaguely humanoid shape allows for an unmatched versatility in manual labour tasks. Under these circumstances, where development of such a mecha was undertaken for other reasons, it might be worthwhile for a military service to arm them after the fact. All of the above issues would be mitigated by the fact that combat would not be the mecha's primary role, but would instead be a secondary function only used when circumstances were dire. This would naturally point us towards the development of mecha for purposes other than military (heavy police action, industrial firefighting, mining, etc.). If this were to take place, no doubt some military service would apply the concept of mechas to a fighting force, were some other sector to take the cost of development upon themselves.

In light of all these disadvantages, many consider the price of even developing a working prototype would be far too costly for something not even practical today.

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Postby wilson1112000 » Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:37 am

I think that a mech dose not nessisaraly need to have legs like that of a human. There could still be use of the tank treads, like that on the shagohod in metal gear solid 3. I know its just fiction, I just think that a design like the shagohod is highly plausible. Mind you, I am not an expert at anything that has to do with robotics. I just watch alot of tech tv and have an over active imagination, yet I still think that a basic design that was shown on the link is possible in either the next generation or the one after.
Praise the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your might, for that is what we were created for.
----------------------------------------------------------------
We've got to speed things up in this hotel. Chef, if a guest orders a three-minute egg, give it to him in two minutes.
If he orders a two-minute egg, give it to him in one minute.
If he orders a one-minute egg, give him a chicken and let him work it out for himself.


Groucho in A Night in Casablanca (movie)
---------------------------------------------------------------

Chinese Finger trap: noun 1. A puzzle that is supposed to test ones ability at problem solveing. or 2. The manifistation of Satan in a cardborad tube.

You decide.
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Postby Godly Paladin » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:11 pm

But wouldn't a mech without legs not really be a mech? It'd be a tank or something.

I get what you mean, though; I like to split hairs. :grin:
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Postby wilson1112000 » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:57 am

Well, If it's top half is in the shape of a humanoid, then it would be considered a Mech. If you watced the first Gundam, you can see a type of gundam that has treads like a tank, but a torso, with arms and two barrels on its back, like an artilery battery. So, if the creature has some aspects of human/living creatures in its design, it can be considered a Mech... I think... :lol:
Praise the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your might, for that is what we were created for.
----------------------------------------------------------------
We've got to speed things up in this hotel. Chef, if a guest orders a three-minute egg, give it to him in two minutes.
If he orders a two-minute egg, give it to him in one minute.
If he orders a one-minute egg, give him a chicken and let him work it out for himself.


Groucho in A Night in Casablanca (movie)
---------------------------------------------------------------

Chinese Finger trap: noun 1. A puzzle that is supposed to test ones ability at problem solveing. or 2. The manifistation of Satan in a cardborad tube.

You decide.
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