ADV Should Die!!

[Rocketshipper]

I hate them. I should have know that this whole thin-pak release spree they were on was too good to be true. I assumed that the thinpak releases were NORMAL box set releases, you know, where you take the DVDs that have been released previously and sell them together. but NOOOOOOOOO!!! Instead ADV decides to cut out all the extras and sell just the episodes. Now maybe it doesn't make that much of a difference with every anime series, since most of them usually have just trailers and line art galleries, but with a series like the New Fist of the North Star OVAs the extras are a main draw to buying the DVDs in the first place!. Now the only way to get extras is to buy the full price original DVDs. *Shoots ADV with an oversized bazooka*. I just know that they did it this way on purpose, to rip us off more. They have effectivly defeated the purpose of even waiting for box sets in the first place!! What's the point of making a set if you aren't going to include everything with it???? It's like...leaving out the Azumanga Daioh movie from the DVDs (And I have a feeling that the Azumanga Thin-pak is going to do just that >_<). There were several anime series I was really looking forward to seeing, but now I may just have to forget about them because the "box sets" (I use the term loosely) aren't complete and I don't have enough time/money to buy the original individual discs.

ADV, DIE!!!!!

[Tenshi no Ai]

Well, that IS what makes them cheaper. I knwo I was somewhat dissapointed when I got my Sailor Moon S and SS thinpacks without any inserts or whatever (and the fact that every DVD backing had the same graphics on them :/) But either than that. But if you really want the inserts etc so bad, then yeah single DVD is the way to go. With Angelic Layer, Chobits, and Haibane, kinda glad I'm getting them singular (cept Chobits single DVDs are AMAZINGLY hard to find!)

[Rocketshipper]

What's supposed to make them cheaper is being in a box set, you aren't supposed to cut out material. ADV and other companies used to know this, their original Evangelion box set was just the original 8 DVDs packaged together, and te arc the lad complete collection didn't cut out any extras as far as I know. The Funimation DBZ boxes are the original individual DVDs just packaged together. My Kare Kano box set is the original DVDs packaged together. NORMAL box sets do it that way, Thin-paks are like "Diet box sets". And I'm not talking about inserts or stuff like that, I'm talking about interviews and commentaries and things like that. The New Fist DVDs had interviews with the cast, commentarys, recording sessions, and press confrences. Why couldn't ADV have released the New Fist Complete collection with two discs, one for the 3 episodes and one for the extras? Instead of charging 20 something dollars they could have charged like 40 something.

[kazekami]

Actually I had heard that the boxsets were going to start not haveing all the extras like the single dvds because they don't make much money on series.

[Arnobius]

Do keep in mind that the thinpacks and box sets and other special priced stuff is done to move the stale series out the door and get more money out of it. ADV is certanly not the only company to do this (Looks at Geneon's Sailor Moon Super S box set). The truth is, they make their money selling by the individual DVD, and every anime distributor does it. Nobody among the anime distributors does it like the distributors of American TV series where you buy an entire series for $40-120 depending on the size and demand. There is nothing different or unethical about ADV's practice here.

Consider also that were you to buy Japanese imports, they'd cost you from $38 to $60 per 2 episode disc.

Ultimately, you get what you pay for. The extras are for the people who pay top price, not the bargain bin prices.

[Rocketshipper]

It didn't used to be that way though. As I said, box sets used to be good, they used to include everything. This is a change, and I don't really see why it needed to be made.

Actually I had heard that the boxsets were going to start not haveing all the extras like the single dvds because they don't make much money on series.

I wish they would have warned us >_<. But that's why they release the box set after the single DVDs, so most people who are excited about the series will buy the individual DVDs and they make most of their money, then the box sets will draw in the rest of the people. I don;t see why that forces hem to cut out extras on the box.

Anyway, if box sets really are horrible wastes of money for distributors why are the ocasional anime series released as box sets first? (Slayers, Magic Knight Rayearth, Fushigi Yugi, Sailor Moon seasons 1 and 2, for example)

[Rev. Doc]

There are only two things I really liked with the single DVD extras. Trailers of upcoming releases and textless openings and closings. Personally, I cared very little for the VA commentaries and things like that. They tended to be filled with senseless chatter and usually the language was way overboard. I purchase titles for one reason, the shows themselves. I welcome a lot of these titles that I had put off purchasing at one time and that I am now able to get at a great price. Fortunately, you now know about it before having bought too many like this and can now go back and get them by the individual volumes with the extras. And in regard to a number of titles mentioned (Slayers, Magic Knight Rayearth, Fushigi Yugi, Trigun, Eva, etc.) that came as boxes with everything, I remember sticker prices of anywhere from $150.00 to $200.00. Not really a bargin for a box set.

[Arnobius]

[quote="Rocketshipper"]It didn't used to be that way though. As I said, box sets used to be good, they used to include everything. This is a change, and I don't really see why it needed to be made.



I wish they would have warned us >_<. But that's why they release the box set after the single DVDs, so most people who are excited about the series will buy the individual DVDs and they make most of their money, then the box sets will draw in the rest of the people. I don]
The change happened a few years back, when distributors realized they could repackage the discs and save money instead of buying more individual boxes and reprinting the extras. Remember that the cost of those older boxsets of packaged individual discs cost over $100-200/box, while these more modern ones are seldom as much as $100 in price.

Sailor Moon and Sailor Moon R were sold as a box set because ADV had a limited time on the rights (less than a year I believe), Fushigi Yuugi was 2 box sets at $200 each, Slayers was doomed by a sound problem with the Japanese language track... and believe it or not, back then people resented having to buy a box set instead of individual volumes because the box sets were expensive and if you decided you didn't like the series, you were out a lot of money. Now I see that many of those boxsets have been sold as individual volumes at a much cheaper price total than the original box sets cost.

[Rocketshipper]

Even a price of 150 dollars is a bargain for an 8 DVD release. full price for all the DVDs would be 239.92+ (29.99 times 8, + sales tax) I think the season 2 MKR set was 140 something, season 1 was 90 something. I bought them a long time ago so I forgot the exact price.

I think the lower profitabilty (is that even a word? ^^) of box sets vs single DVDs is probably caused more by consumer choices than by them actully being less profitable, in terms of making them. A customer comes along and sees the Evangelion box for 149.99 and says "Wow, that's expensive, I'll just buy single DVDs", not realizing that in the long run they will spend more on the individual DVDs than they will on the box. In my anime club I was surprised by how many people were convinced that box sets are more expensive than buying all the single DVDs. If more consumers realized that they would save money by buying box sets then maybe the increased sale of box sets would make them more appealing to anime companies. Of course now the companies have made that even less likely to happen by making the box sets "bare-bones" and giving people less incentive to buy them instead of the single DVDs.

Yeah, I don't always care about every extra that's included on a DVD (Line art galleries are usually boring, for instance) but different people like different stuff and any time the companies cut out extras there will be someone who is dissapointed, so it would be better if they just leave them in. And then there are the situations like Azumanga Daioh, where the Azumanga Diaoh movie short will apparently not be included on the thin-pak release. Something like that shouldn't even be considered an extra at all, it should be part of the series, it's stupid of them not to include it.

and believe it or not, back then people resented having to buy a box set instead of individual volumes because the box sets were expensive and if you decided you didn't like the series, you were out a lot of money.

Hmm. I never thought about that, but then I've never bought an anime series and then stopped halfway through because I didn't like it. Once I start a series I have to finish it. But I don't think that would have anything to do with the decision to not include extras on a box set. The companies should release the individual DVDs and then the box set, with extras, at a reasonable price. This "individual DVDs vs barebones box set" is creating an evil paradox

[Arnobius]

Even a price of 150 dollars is a bargain for an 8 DVD release. full price for all the DVDs would be 239.92+ (29.99 times 8, + sales tax) I think the season 2 MKR set was 140 something, season 1 was 90 something. I bought them a long time ago so I forgot the exact price.

I think the lower profitabilty (is that even a word? ^^) of box sets vs single DVDs is probably caused more by consumer choices than by them actully being less profitable, in terms of making them. A customer comes along and sees the Evangelion box for 149.99 and says "Wow, that's expensive, I'll just buy single DVDs", not realizing that in the long run they will spend more on the individual DVDs than they will on the box. In my anime club I was surprised by how many people were convinced that box sets are more expensive than buying all the single DVDs. If more consumers realized that they would save money by buying box sets then maybe the increased sale of box sets would make them more appealing to anime companies. Of course now the companies have made that even less likely to happen by making the box sets "bare-bones" and giving people less incentive to buy them instead of the single DVDs.

Yeah, I don't always care about every extra that's included on a DVD (Line art galleries are usually boring, for instance) but different people like different stuff and any time the companies cut out extras there will be someone who is dissapointed, so it would be better if they just leave them in. And then there are the situations like Azumanga Daioh, where the Azumanga Diaoh movie short will apparently not be included on the thin-pak release. Something like that shouldn't even be considered an extra at all, it should be part of the series, it's stupid of them not to include it.

Seems to me it would be more inexpensive to just keep remaking the original discs instead of remastering new ones, but it may be a question of rights. Azumanga Daioh's "A Very Short Movie" was an extra thrown in to a magazine subscription in Japan and never aired on TV, so it is actually a different set of rightsholders than the TV series. Likewise there is an Azumanga Web Daioh that never made it into ADV's collection, since the rights holders were different (I have it fansubbed).

Regarding how cheap something is, the best way is to divide the price by the number of episodes. $7.50/ep used to be the standard, but that can change with places like Best Buy selling for cheaper. Back in the earliest days, we resented the FY boxset, not because of the price (it was slightly under the $7.50/ep average) but the fact that you had to pay $200 blind instead of getting to try disc one to test it.

[termyt]

I kind of agree with you. I'd like the extras to be included in the thinpacks, too. But the thin packs are hardly a rip-off. How is spending a fraction of the cost for a series a rip-off?

I understand why ADV did it. I don't agree with their reasoning, but I understand it.

In order to make a profit, a release company must sell a certain number of DVD's in the original release. The original DVD sales are where a series success or fails is rated. Therefore, ADV has a vested interest in keeping the fans who buy the DVD's as they are originally released happy and their wallets open.

That's the primary reason they started selling art boxes with the first DVD volumes. Fans groused about the extra price, but not as much as they complained about missing out on the boxes altogether while those who waited to by the entire set got a free box and a discount.

The latest trend is a continuation of that trend. If fans new that ADV would release a thinpack version of a series shortly after it was released with all of the extras, etc at a huge discount, many would stop buying the DVD's as they came out. This could potentially cut ADV's profits by a margin large enough to drive them out of business. They need to keep an incentive going so people will still buy their DVD's as they are released.

This should be looked at as a win-win situation. Those who buy as the DVD's are released win because they get the extras they crave. Buyers with less cash win because, although they have to wait and miss out on the extras, they can afford to buy a series they may not be otherwise able to.

[Arnobius]

Those are points I would have liked to have gotten to, but I think you expressed them much better than I could have.

[Rocketshipper]

The latest trend is a continuation of that trend. If fans new that ADV would release a thinpack version of a series shortly after it was released with all of the extras, etc at a huge discount, many would stop buying the DVD's as they came out. This could potentially cut ADV's profits by a margin large enough to drive them out of business. They need to keep an incentive going so people will still buy their DVD's as they are released.

But I thought the reason box sets were less profitable was because less people bought them. If the same number of people who are willing to buy single releases bought box sets, maybe they would be profitable. Just a theory, I'm not sure exactly how the costs break down, but maybe. And anyway, up until now the only "incentive" ADV and other companys seemed to have needed to motivate most people to buy the single releases was the fact that box sets usually come out a very long time after the original DVDs have been released. I mean, for example, CCS finished it's individual DVD release like 2 or 3 years ago, and the box sets are just now coming out. This new extra incentive of buying single DVDs in order to get all the extras, is going too far in my view.

Also, I would have thought it would take more effort to create whole new discs with shuffled up episode counts and new menues to stick in the thin-paks than it would to simply make more copies of the DVDs you've already created and stick them in a box.

Buyers with less cash win because, although they have to wait and miss out on the extras, they can afford to buy a series they may not be otherwise able to.

And buyers with less cash who also happen to have OCD-ish completionist tendancys have their heads explode because if they buy the box set they can afford they still don;t get everything

[Mangafanatic]

I guess what you have to do is decide what's important to you. Personally, extra features or not, I'm ecstatic to pay 60 dollars for the Azumanga Daioh box set for my little sister's birthday rather than the 130 dollars I would have paid for it with all the bonus stuff. I mean, think about it? If ADV released a 60 dollar DVD with all the extra stuff on it, would you buy it? Maybe you would, but I'd say there's a lot of us who would say "Puh-shaw! Please, pass the thin-pack box sets this way."

*Huggles ADV* Don't don't die! I still need to see the end of Noir!

[termyt]

Also, I would have thought it would take more effort to create whole new discs with shuffled up episode counts and new menues to stick in the thin-paks than it would to simply make more copies of the DVDs you've already created and stick them in a box.

That's true. There is over-head associated with having to master new DVD's sans extras. I personally would have thought they would also pack the DVD's with more episodes (You can actually fit 6 or 7 episodes per DVD and rethus reduce a 26 episode series to 4 or 5 DVD's) so they could reduce costs even further, but, alas, that's not the direction they went in.
[quote="Rocketshipper"]And buyers with less cash who also happen to have OCD-ish completionist tendancys have their heads explode because if they buy the box set they can afford they still don]
Well, it's also sometimes easier for those with less financial resources to buy the DVD's as they are released. $30 a month for six months can be easier to afford than $90 all at once.

[Hitokiri]

Here's my theory:

1) ADV isn't doing this to tick people off. They are a company and a company needs to make money. However ADV isn't doing this to upset or anger thier buyers whatsoever. That is not thier main focus. If it was, they would be losing out big money wise.

2) They are thinking if you are willing to buy this "box set" at a limited price, why include additional features? That's why it is at a lower price. It's like buying a dog chew set on sale but expected to get a dog food bag just just the brand who makes the chew toy makes the dog food...more of less.

3) If you care so much about the series, they find a much better profit in people buying indivdual DVD's. I got the box set of Evangelion plus the two movies no extras. The Plantinum Version came out though and after looking at that has to offer and this box set, I decided to collect the Platinum cause it was worth while. If the series you want to get is worth while, then you are expected to more or less to put money in and purchase the entire indivdual DVD collection or the hefty priced box set that is like $200. Reason why that is $200 cause of the additional material and such.

To expect to get the full package when you pay less the price instead of a boxset that has the full package but maybe a $100 more is just plain silliness. If you want additional stuff, you need to shell out more money cause thats how ADV and everyother anime liscenes out there does business.

Personally, ADV has yet to dissapoint me with thir DVD releases everything from Eva Plantinum, to RahXephon, to Rurouni Kenshin, to Voices of a Distant Star has yet to cease to amaze me.

[Rocketshipper]

Did the ADV Evangelion box really have no extras?? The single DVDs didn't really have many to begin with (just character and angel bios if I remember correctly). The DVDs in the box looked the same as the old ones did. Or is this a new thin-pak evangelion box set?? (I know they are releasing a platinum edition thin-pak)

If the series you want to get is worth while, then you are expected to more or less to put money in and purchase the entire indivdual DVD collection or the hefty priced box set that is like $200. Reason why that is $200 cause of the additional material and such.

I have no problem with that, I would gladly pay that price for an 8 DVD box set (it's still less than buying them all individually) it's just that now the anime companies aren't even bothering to release a "hefty priced box set", now it's either "single DVDs with everything" or "lower priced box set with less stuff". I'm not saying that ADV and the other companies should have to release DVDs with all the extras for extremely low prices, I would have been perfectly willing to pay 60 dollars or more (as apposed to 29.99 for the "complete collection") for a New Fist DVD that included all three episodes and all the extras.

[agasfas]

There are only two things I really liked with the single DVD extras. Trailers of upcoming releases and textless openings and closings.

I'm the same way... only extras I've watched were the textless op and closing. I have watched trailers on occasion, but that's even rare. I'm more interested in the main content then the behind the scenes stuff, interviews with the director or whatever... Whether anime or a real movie, I've never really skimmed through the extras. So if they make a series $40 cheaper for cutting the extras, heck I'm all game for it.

[Hitokiri]

Did the ADV Evangelion box really have no extras?? The single DVDs didn't really have many to begin with (just character and angel bios if I remember correctly). The DVDs in the box looked the same as the old ones did. Or is this a new thin-pak evangelion box set?? (I know they are releasing a platinum edition thin-pak)

Actually the box set I got mumble mumble mumble was bootlegged (in which I forgot to put down) without me knowing it. So that's the biggest reason why I wanted to Plantinum, to get a legit copy. As for th ebooklets in the Plantinum, they are a huge help in understanding the series and if you're someone like me who is intrigued by the thought process of the series, then they extremely intresting to read. Plus the video and sound quality is like a 100% jump from the orginal DVD's.

I have no problem with that, I would gladly pay that price for an 8 DVD box set (it's still less than buying them all individually) it's just that now the anime companies aren't even bothering to release a "hefty priced box set", now it's either "single DVDs with everything" or "lower priced box set with less stuff". I'm not saying that ADV and the other companies should have to release DVDs with all the extras for extremely low prices, I would have been perfectly willing to pay 60 dollars or more (as apposed to 29.99 for the "complete collection") for a New Fist DVD that included all three episodes and all the extras.

Yes, the thing that struck me though you were mad at them for buying a thin pack box set at a low price expecting extras that a $200 box set would have.

[Rocketshipper]

In case you hadn't noticed, I wasn't AWARE that the thin-paks were extra less until now , the New fist collection having been the first one I've ever bought. The idea of a box set having less content was something that didn't even make sense to me until now, which is why when Jeikobu first told me that the Azumanga Daioh box set wasn't going to have all the extras, I told him it must have been a mistake on Right Stuf's website "Box sets always have all the stuff the single DVDs do" I guess not anymore >_< Part of why I was mad at ADV was because I bought the New Fist collection expecting that the standards for box sets hadn't changed, if I'd known it was extra less I wouldn't have bought it at all.

[mitsuki lover]

Ok,so now I'm confused.What exactly IS a thinpak?

[Hitokiri]

In case you hadn't noticed, I wasn't AWARE that the thin-paks were extra less until now , the New fist collection having been the first one I've ever bought. The idea of a box set having less content was something that didn't even make sense to me until now, which is why when Jeikobu first told me that the Azumanga Daioh box set wasn't going to have all the extras, I told him it must have been a mistake on Right Stuf's website "Box sets always have all the stuff the single DVDs do" I guess not anymore >_< Part of why I was mad at ADV was because I bought the New Fist collection expecting that the standards for box sets hadn't changed, if I'd known it was extra less I wouldn't have bought it at all.

Sorry if this seems cold but I'm going to say it anyways.

This is a fine example to always review and research what you buy first. I made the mistakes of buying some bootlegs that arent the best quality. I didn't do any research and now I am stuck with them.

[Kawaiikneko]

I think these thinpacks are for the people who DON'T CARE about the extra features (like myself). I'd much rather just wait and buy all the eps at one time than get single dvds one by one. I don't really care for the extras, as long as the Japanese audio is on there.

[Ichigo_89]

Yeeeaaahhh...that MIGHT be a safe assumption... ^_^

[Mr. SmartyPants]

shoulda done your research beforehand =D

[termyt]

Ok,so now I'm confused.What exactly IS a thinpak?

A thinpack refers to a standard DVD packaged in a case that is roughly half the width of a standard DVD case. Basically, they removed the space usually used for including an insert.

ADV has begun releasing some anime series in thinpacks - boxsets containing the entire series packaged in thinpack cases. ADV has also remastered these DVD's to exclude the extras originally included in the individual DVD releases.

[Kkun]

I don't see a problem here. As long as you get both language versions of a series, I'd gladly shell out two DVDs worth the cost for an entire series.

[rocklobster]

So now it's strike two for ADV. Strike one was licensing Super Milk Chan for a revenge scheme to Cartoon Network. But they're making up for it with a certain title we can't discuss. And by licensing Rahxephon, which is currently playing on G4's anime unleashed!

[Rocketshipper]

-_-. According to animeondvd.com the new Slayers movie thinpak box from ADV does include the main extras. What, does ADV just flip a coin or something to decide if they will include extras or not? Why include them here but not with other thin-paks??? *dies of confusion*

[termyt]

They are probably trying to figure out how to take the least amount of flak from their customers.