I am sick and tired of debates

[teigeki_calesa]

I know I know. Not everyone has the same opinion. There will be those who will oppose to what I say, but what annoys me the most are those who had made it their hobby to make it appear that I am a) a stupid troll and a whiny little kid lost in the world of intelligent adults. They may be doing things reasonably, but there are cases that they can be VERY insensitive to the feelings of the amateur, young forumer and avid fans of something that they are bashing. This always happens to me and I know it all too well.

That's why I quit most of the MLs and MBs I belonged to as quickly as I join new ones. It's easy to forget them if they are mindless trolls indeed; but not if they are handling debates and tossing rebuttals so expertly that they can make a killing in the outbound sales division of various call centers today. And of course, putting an air of(more like feigning) respect for the other party by using the classic "I'm not bashing you personally; we are just holding a comprehensive and balanced discussion" or words to that effect. But in reality, they might just not care, or if by chance they have even an iota of it, their bias to that belief is really showing, no matter how much they disguise it with intelligent sounding statements.

The topics I wallow through with flame wars ranges from my now-defunct Voltes V fanfic(with the bully of an admin threatening to cut my arm off); yaoi(I actually managed to develop an immunity against rabid yaoi fangirls maiming me); Tagalog dubs and Beyblade haters; to a lot more things. But the last two are what are currently bugging me, particularly since it was done in the AXN forums aka The Red Hell.

The Tagalog dub haters have a glaring bias, and sweeping statements to accompany it,such as script alterations(English dubs are worse), faulty voice acting, technicalities among many others; but what really took the cake was"foreign films should be watched in their language". Yes, I can agree with that to some extent--I myself prefer subtitles, and I REALLY hate substandard voice acting--but that's just me. There is still the whole populace of Metro Manila and the other Tagalog speaking regions to account for, not to mention the other major Phil. languages. And the only most effective way of introducing anime so far whhether they like it or not is dubbing, because hinestly, no one wants to be imposed upon with an entity of an entirely different culture, which is a foreign language(that's why the subtitled Ringu is a flop). Plus, our dubbers have actually achieved a considerable level of expertise in their fileld and is generally more natural sounding, unlike most English dubs where it's either too forced and exaggerated, or too underplayed(Not enough heart). I can enumerate lots more pro dub statements, but like I said, there is no rebuttal that's not unanswerable to a really dedicated and biased debater. So I gave up.

Now I know that Beyblade is kinda hard to defend, because I myself am aware that it has a low story value, and also, the mere fact that it is a fad anime. When someone said that it should by all means be bashed because it is ridiculous, glorifying such an insignificant thing such as a child's toy to epic proportions; of course I complained. But un-troll-like sounding he may sound, it cannot be denied that he is saying that I had no right to complain and attack anyone personally(labeling BB haters elitists;like that's attacking personally)because they don't do so when their favorite title is being bashed. But you see, attacking someone's passionately loved series is already a personal attack by itself. I want to say that his fave title is no different--the heroine cries, whines and does nothing to solve her problem, getting the story nowhere and rendering the whole thing pointless;at least the characters of Beyblade work their {cut} off to get the story somewhere-- But again, I didn't say that. Because I know in the end, I will be the loser.

And don't make me start the Gundam Wing vs Seed thingie or I'll put up a litany of exasperated rants.

Forgive me of my long rant; I am really tired of debating with elitists and fansub spoiled kids here in the local forums.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Okay. But there's no reason to rant about it here. Unless you want sympathy.

[Mithrandir]

[quote="teigeki_calesa"]Forgive me of my long rant]
Can I ask if you are referring to CAA here? "...here in the local forums." seems to imply such.

[Shao Feng-Li]

So then don't worry about what the haters think and just watch the show.


Just about everyone hates SD Gundam, but I don't give a crap.

[Mangafanatic]

Honestly, if you love something-- don't be bothered by those people. I really do know where you're coming from (My aunt told me to BURN all my manga), but if you really love something, there's no reason that you have to get worked up by other people's dislike of it. All that that really matter to you personally is that you ike this thing or that thing. What does it change if someone else doesn't and they voice that opinion.

Plus, if you think about it, I'm sure there's been some time in your life that you've spoken against something. Chances are, someone out there likes that thing. It's not a personal diss; it's just a statement of opinion-- unless you let it be more than that.

For my part, if I were ever to start a "______" vs. "-------------" thread, it wouldn't be so I could slam others opinions. It would just because I enjoy discussion of one of my many passions, anime. Knowing all the people here, such discussions would be for the sake of fun not for the sake of trying to hammer others' "likes" into the ground.

Lastly, and please take this as a word of loving admonishment from one child of Christ to another-- just look at this statement:

I am really tired of debating with elitists and fansub spoiled kids here in the local forums.

Don't you think that is a little elitist? Belittling people who feel passionately that more enjoyment can be squeezed from anime in its original language? I happen to be one of those people. I vastly prefer [fan]subs over dubs. By making such a negative statement about these people in general, you're making the same kind of statments and judgments against them that you so dested them making against you.

[shooraijin]

I presume by local forums, you mean the local (to you) Filipino forums?

[Yumie]

Just watch what you like and feel OK about watching and don't worry about what everybody else likes. Who really cares, everybody is different and obviously there are going to be people out there who differ in opinion from you in almost everything you believe. Just don't worry about them and treat them like you'd want them to treat you.

[The Last Bard]

...at least the characters of Beyblade work their a$$es off...

That's very nice...But you might get warned by the mods for saying that.

And really, what's the point of ranting for everyone else to read? To get everyone else worked up? Or like Warrion for Jesus said, do you want sympathy?

Seriously, I like Pokemon. So what if most of the people hate it. I don't give a if they do or don't.

[Yeito]

o_o... hmm.

I'm confused but thats ok no one needs to waste their time to explain it to me ^^; I have a hard time comprehending things right when I get home from school Heh... anyway. o_o;

I can understand what your saying, at least I think so. (I know... I need a nap) There are some things that I like that people just automatically write off as -bad- or -dumb- or -stupid- or -devilcartoons- o_o; But I still like them. Just cause someone says that its a dumb show doesn't mean you can't still watch it. ^^;

And I understand that you want to stand up for what you like when people say bad things about it. Usually people who decide not to like something go and tell others all the points that could be considered -bad- and leave out all the good things. Even if theres only one thing that could be considered even remotely bad and everything else is perfectly fine. :shrug: People are just like that I guess.

But anyway. If you want to stand up for it, just make sure you point out what you think and try to be as amiable as possible. I will be the first one to tell you that I have an anger problem. :is ashamed: -_- But I still try to be nice to people.

Wait... I'm not saying that I dont think you're being mean or anything. 0_0 Thats the last thing I mean! I'm sorry if you took it that way or anything. -_-; But Uhm... I forgot where I was going with this so maybe I made a point and maybe I didn't. r_r;

But lets remember that this is CAA: Christian Anime Alliance. So lets all represent our father the way He should be represented and not ..... I dunno. Lose our heads? o_o;

[Mave]

Well, join the club. That's one of the reasons I've remained in CAA for so long. The mods/admins anti-debate mallets come in really handy.

A good way to approach this type of problem is to consider how -important- are the topics of debate. Ok, so what if some ppl insists that subs are better than dubs? Are you going to DIE if you can't get ppl to agree with you? Really, does it really matter if some ppl think [insert anime title] is better than [insert another anime title]? It's not like it's going to save the world.

We're never going to change these ppl's minds and neither are we going to change their attitude (annoying as it is). I hate to say this but most of the time when you get flustered enough over something like this, you're probably obsessed about it by then or you have too much pride to admit defeat. Eitherways, both are not healthy for the Christian soul.

All in all, sounds like you need to take a break from it all. You could hang around CAA or take a complete break from it all/avoid online activities altogether. We all sometimes need to stop, take a deep breath, learn to take things easy and focus on other things, which are most probably more important anyway. Life isn't all about anime/manga.

[Yeito]

:applaudes Mave: goodjob. goodjob.

[Alice]

I know what you mean. I kinda hate debates. Even when it's over something simple, it's so easy to get upset, get your feelings hurt. It gets to the point where I just want to leave the room when someone starts a debate. Or "discussion" that's obviously going that way...

It just... stinks. Can't people stop? I get that some people thrive on debate. Not met.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Well, when there's a debate, all you have to do is leave, ne?

[Alice]

That's my modus operandi, when I can get away with it.

And, hey, guys, don't get down on Teigeki_Celsea. Where she is, basically the only Beyblade people around either bash it because it's a kids anime, or try to make out that it's yaoi. That kind of stuff can be hard to take, if you care about a series. And hard to just ignore and not get into an argument about, if you have to be around the people.

[Myoti]

I'm trying to get to the point where I can simply ignore the bashing and negative opinions of other, but it's still hard to do sometimes, especially when it comes from someone you thought you could trust.
There are several things I like that have been put down by others, which got me depressed at the time. However, I eventually realized that most of the ones saying these things are simply a small portion of the entire world. With over 6 billion peeps in our world, someone out there has to agree with me.

For my part, if I were ever to start a "______" vs. "-------------" thread, it wouldn't be so I could slam others opinions. It would just because I enjoy discussion of one of my many passions, anime. Knowing all the people here, such discussions would be for the sake of fun not for the sake of trying to hammer others' "likes" into the ground.

For real. Some here may have seen all those "versus" threads I made in the Goof-Off forum, and despite the fact that the character I went for lost everytime, I was still mature about (thought that doens't mean I didn't try to *ahem* convince some of them to join my side ).

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Debates are actually very good and interesting, but only work well when each party respects the other and there is a topic worth debating.
I don't think Beyblades is bad, but I'm not a fan of it. But that's my opinion. Everyone has different tastes and you just have to accept that a move on.
Step back and 'smell the roses.'

God Bless

[mitsuki lover]

Honest debates where both sides are polite and willing to listen don't bother me.We really need them.
What rather bugs me is when people post ad hominem attacks against
one version of anime*Cough DUBS Cough*in an impolitic and untactful
manner.

It's ok to say that you don't like the dubs or subs,but always be polite and
fair to those who do enjoy them.
Frankly some of the arrogance displayed by some subfans is enough
to prevent me from even trying to view them.
Remember there is good and bad to BOTH the subs and the dubs,one is
not superior and the other is not inferior.
The worse thing that can happen is would be fans get turned off.
So if you like the subs,that's cool but play nice and be kind to those of
us who love the dubs.

[termyt]

Honest debates where both sides are polite and willing to listen don't bother me.We really need them.

I love a good debate. Debates are a great way to learn another side of a topic and refine your own views. I've learned a lot about myself and my own philosophy through debates.

Unfortunately, many people have no talent for debating. Many people do not know how to handle differing view points and get angry when someone disagrees with them. That is the downfall of all debates and quickly leads to a senseless argument and personal attacks and insults.

"Why, yes, I am over-weight, and no, my mother was definitely human, but in any case, what does that have to do with the current rise in gasoline prices?"

I tend to ignore rants laced with mostly opinion and little fact. Those posts aren't terribly useful to a discussion, so why let them bother you? The last thing you want to do is let someone else control your emotions. Don't let trolls make you angry; all they really wanted to do was to make you miserable – don’t let them succeed.

[teigeki_calesa]

Okay, for those who got a wrong idea, I'm sorry if I didn't make things clear and caused a lot of misunderstanding. Yes, Shooraijin-sempai, I was talking about the local forums in the Philippines.

Basically, I am complaining because a lot of forumers here had been comprised of dub hating fanboys/girls. That would be easy to ignore if not only for the fact that they are badmouthing the local voice actors, even had the nerve of mentioning their names and mouthing lots of icky invectives. It's just too much. They just don't realize the amount of effort these people go through to get some anime on free TV.

No, Warrior4Jesus, the last thing that I expected to get from starting this thread is sympathy(I hate being pitied for the record). This is just a rant-and-think thread, period. But if I sounded kinda too abrasive for you and everyone else in this forum, I'm sorry.

(To those who told me to "get a life"....Actually, some trolls said that on my Beyblade fic's comment a lot of times. So I actually find myself laughing. Sorry, I hate to sound condescending but I kinda find it funny when I think about it now.)

[Kura Ookami]

I love debates where everyone is respectful and willing to listen to other viewpoints. That's always fun.

For the record i like Beyblade too. It's not the best anime in the world, but it's decent. It's got nice action and decent characters. ^_^

As for the sub vs dub issue i prefer dubs because the voice actors arent bad. They're not the original actors who were likely chosen specifically for the roles and the animes might even have been created with certain voice actors in mind. For an example of a truly bad sub watch Sin the Movie subbed. I think that is the worst example of a sub ive ever seen - what they're saying doesnt match whats going on. All the dubs ive seen at least match what's actually going on in the animation. Generally dubs and sybs are just as good as each other though you've got to look at it on an anime by anime basis.

Anyway, ive gone off topuc a little. Debates arent bad as long as they dont turn into flame wars, which accomplish little.

[termyt]

As for the sub vs dub issue i prefer dubs because the voice actors arent bad.

I'm convinced a lot of the anti-dub crowd who complain about bad voice actors in dubs don't know what bad voice acting sounds like in Japanese. With out a decent understanding of how a langauge is supposed to be spoken, it is difficult to know when it is being spoken poorly.

[Maledicte]

Maybe he means when the voices just irritate him beyond all heck.

[Nate]

Maybe he means when the voices just irritate him beyond all heck.

I think that's probably what he meant.

I know I wouldn't be able to recognize bad voice acting in Japanese, because I'm not a native Japanese speaker.

However, I find that for the most part, Japanese voices are more tolerable to me than English voices, though I DO enjoy many anime dubbed...but usually those are the ones where the English VAs don't try and sound like high-pitched Japanese women...I think that's where a lot of the "bad" voices for dubs come from.