Guns & Gun Handling, Safety, Marksmanship in Anime

[Geirr]

I decided to start this thread after some other folks elsewhere discussed how so many of the character names in Scrapped Princess were gun mfr's. (Browning, Mauser, Steyr, CZ, many others...)

This topic is -NOT- for real-world discussions of politics, RKBA, gun-control laws, parental supervision, etc. Instead, it's for memorable anime scenes, realistic or outrageous scenes, "you can't really -DO- that," armed or skillful characters we know and love, etc, and possibly a bit of trivia, if related to an anime series or a scene.

Memorable for me, to kick things off:

- Gunslinger Girls: A little creepy with 8yr-olds so skillful, but I did enjoy Henrietta with the CETME knock-off of the HK G3 (in .308 NATO.) Though at that age, makes you wonder how Mirielle Bouquet (Noir) got her start ...

- Gunsmith Cats. Very realistic, but the word is that Sonoda is a gun-fan. (He even got all the COLORS correct for the boxes of ammo in the background at the gun store.) Only one or two outrageous tricks, like balancing a mag on th e tip of your toe and popping it into the magazine well with a flick of the ankle. Riiiiiggggghhht.... But OTOH, GSC was just about the -only- show out there that had people RUN OUT or CHANGE MAGS after a REALISTIC (low) number of shots were fired. Rally was especially disciplied about this in the warehouse scene. Drool over the M249SAW in her in-home collection. One of those is probably worth over 20 grand today.

- Noir/Madlax: All those shots taken from the 'home-boy' grip (holding a pistol sideways) was distracting to a fault - especially Kirika. Ugghh. Please. Will somebody please use their front sight? Oh, and what - the bad guys always seem to be firing tracers - all those red lines...

- Sagara Souske from FMP. Definitely a cool dude when it comes to having to field strip and reassemble a battle rifle in pitch black at -35 degrees. And quietly. But cancelled out by his application of those skills to everyday social encounters.

- Since I am not really a fan of Trigun, I'll linvite other folks to pick that up...

- Alucard's .454 Casull: impractically long barrel except for target shooting, maybe - but beyond .45ACP and .44 Magnum does anything really HAVE to be smacked that hard? Really? (OK maybe for supernatural effects.) Then Victoria uses a 30mm [!] although the rounds in her hand are drawn more like 20mm.

- The 'use the whole darn hillside as your bench rest' scene in Eva. And yes in long distance shooting you -DO- adjust for the Coriolis effect in flight. That and the full-auto gondola ride. WHAT ski hill is THAT?!?

- Lastly, if we ever built real mecha, why would we build scaled-up HUGE pistols and rifles (and swords!) instead of building in gun-barrels within the machine's forearms, or perhaps with turrets mounted elsewhere on the body/machine?

- G

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Henrietta rocking the p90 = ownage

however i don't recall seeing her use a G3 (then again i didnt finish the series)... what episode is that

and we can't forget about good ol cowboy bebop

and in Monster, i THINK Tenma uses the ERMA SR-100.... (.388 lapua) BUT im not sure if im correct (although im 100% positive its the .388 lapua rounds)

[Raiden no Kishi]

Trigun:

-I don't know how the HECK Vash can aim with the sights on the top and the barrel on the bottom of his revolver. No wonder it was off 3 inches aat 10 yards. Much less how he actual mechanism would DO that.

-At least once they forgot that Vash's revolver holds only six rounds (it was in the episode where he faces Rai-Dei the Blade...fires into the air to scare everyone off...lets loose about 10 shots without reloading.)

-Wolfwood's Cross Punisher. How do the controls work; how is it reloaded?

.rai//

[Geirr]

Henrietta rocking the p90 = ownage

Yes. Very much so. I also loved Beethoven's 9th 'Chorale' at the end. One of the most Christian pieces of music created in 3 centuries.

however i don't recall seeing her use a G3 (then again i didnt finish the series)... what episode is that

I think it's 7 or 8. A firing range scene. You can tell by the color (lighter than olive drab) of the forestock and the 3-in-a-row gas ports - looks like CETME contract manufactured knock-off rather than HK factory original. She goes fulll-auto so you know it's G3 rather than HK-91. Shells confirm the .308 [7.62mm] and not .223 [5.56mm]

and we can't forget about good ol cowboy bebop

Oops. I did - sorry.

and in Monster, ... although im 100% positive its the .388 lapua rounds)

The .338 Lapua is a great round out to 1,000 yds, just like a Whisper .300. I had written of 'Monster' because I often start losing patience after 26 eps. I' already starting to fade on 'Bleach.' 'Monster' is already way up in eps. Is it funny or otherwise very cool?

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Monster is definately NOT a comedy, its very serious, but the plot is amazingly great, and it's MY personal favorite, ahh he uses the gun around episodes near the 30-40s

lol geirr you oughta play counterstrike sometime

here is a picture of his rifle, the show is set in germany so i figure its a german rifle

[mitsuki lover]

Concerning Trigun the one question I have is where does Millie keep her weapon when she's not using it,especially since it's the biggest weapon anyone uses on the show?

[Raiden no Kishi]

Under her coat, I'd assume. And I'd say Wolfwood's Cross Punisher is much less concealable (longer and wider)

.rai//

[Fireproof]

- Lastly, if we ever built real mecha, why would we build scaled-up HUGE pistols and rifles (and swords!) instead of building in gun-barrels within the machine's forearms, or perhaps with turrets mounted elsewhere on the body/machine?

I've thought about this, and there's actually a perfectly good reason to put guns on the end of jointed arms. Each joint adds to a large sphere of possible positions and angles for the gun, thus increasing the amount of places you can shoot. Hands would probably be a bad idea for grip's sake, but arms would be very good, down to the wrist joint.

[AngelSakura]

<<-At least once they forgot that Vash's revolver holds only six rounds (it was in the episode where he faces Rai-Dei the Blade...fires into the air to scare everyone off...lets loose about 10 shots without reloading.)>>
Several times I saw this. Once where you mentioned in Fifth Moon, once in Murder Machine (where Vash passes it off to Nicholas and it conviently runs out just before the really huge last robot, after firing what was almost certainly more then six shots)... Hmm, I think there's more...
I still hold that Vash cocking his gun arm in the last minutes of Live Through was the best shot of it, perhaps of any weaponry, in the anime series, from a "cool" standpoint.

[Michael]

I'll jump in here, I love firearms (DON'T CALL THEM 'GUNS'!!!!)

-Trigun: Cool, but totally ridiculous. 50 Derringers????

-Hellsing: Arukard's pistol weighs about 30 lb. That's too heavy for a normal man to shoot.

-Cowboy Bebop: Realistic for the most part. They use real firearms, but some of the stuff they do isn't possible. (Like Spike getting gut-shot)

-Gundam Wing: Gigantic laser beams. Aww yeah . . . . . .

-Madlax and Noir: The weapons are just there to augment the beautiful women. No offence to fans, I think most would agree with me. They're real firearms, but the way they use them is impractical. Besides, Madlax fights in a dress.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

I thought the accuracy of the firearm details in Noir was amazing! Yes, I know the series is a girls with guns series but I think it as more of a phsycological thriller with guns thrown in. A phenomenal series to due to the incredible research and tragic characters.
So sad...

Sob.

[AngelSakura]

<<50 Derringers????>>
Nightow-sensei mentioned "blowing it" by giving her all those guns, because "even though they're lightweight guns, when you add them up, it's really heavy."

[mitsuki lover]

One realistic scene with firearms is in the first episode or so of Geneshaft when
the terrorists shoot at Lady Mir.

[Geirr]

1. lol geirr you oughta play counterstrike sometime
2. here is a picture of his rifle, the show is set in germany so i figure its a german rifle

1. I have tried counterstrike and some UT, but I guess I am not a computer gamer, but I -do- enjoy making real holes in real paper sometimes, often borrowing a few NICE pieces from a few serious collectors I know. That kind-of spoiled me off the pixel versions.

2. Took me a while - I did a bit of skimming, but this seems to be another anime-fantasy rifle (which is fine - I mean, check out Gene Starwind's 'caster' in Outlaw Star) but the difference here is that the prop designer was reasonably informed and made a reasonable-looking prop - UNLIKE certain OTHER pieces where barrels are on the WRONG part of a revolver frame, or even SILLIER variations (which you guys have already noted.)

This piece looks like something Armalite might make, but the hollow stock is a little flimsy - which is fine for a civilian sport shooter, actually - some of the most accurate bench rifles are quite delicate and therefore cannot be used for military or assassin work where you might have to set up in the rough, take your shot and high-tail it to your, er, 'reasonable alibi' spot (whistling furtively ... ) Would YOU take a $12K Mac. Bros. rifle out hunting? Just throw the case to bang around the bed of the 4x4 pick/up and go, right? (ouch...) Might as well take a grandfather clock or a chandelier with you ...

- G

[Geirr]

1. I thought the accuracy of the firearm details in Noir was amazing!
2. Yes, I know the series is a girls with guns series but I think it as more of a phsycological thriller with guns thrown in.

1. Just me, but I wasn't that impressed - I can recall one scene where Mirielle racks the slide and it's ALL BLACK in there - my wife hit pause on the show and said "wait, shouldn't we see ammo in the top of the magazine?" Plus as I said, I found all that home-boy horizontal one-hand pistol grip position VERY annoying.

2. I agree, and I too enjoyed the series, and its mystery/thriller elements. Also, there is a LOVELY AMV using 'Noir' for the trailer audio to 'Tomb Raider' (the live action movie.) Angelina Jolie's voice worked REALLY WELL for Mirielle!

- G

[SailorDove]

Just soooo happy to find this thread!!!!!!!!!!

Pretty familer that inaccuacies abound in entertainment, didn't figure anime was much different. Interesting to find out that Gunsmith Cats is fairly accurate!

Will keep tuned in to learn more from the wise ones!

[heero yuy 95]

- Lastly, if we ever built real mecha, why would we build scaled-up HUGE pistols and rifles (and swords!) instead of building in gun-barrels within the machine's forearms, or perhaps with turrets mounted elsewhere on the body/machine?

regarding mecha:

That may be more practical, but this way is cooler! Hey, BTW, have you ever seen SDF Macross? Three of the four destroid models have huge monuted weapons on their arms, etc. But they were more mobile artillery than combat mecha. Most mecha in anime are unrealisticly agile and manuverable. They usually have skinny arms and legs. If their weapons were mounted in the arms, where would the ammunition be magazined? They would either have an impractically low amount of ammo, or they'd be hampered down.

Then Victoria uses a 30mm [!] although the rounds in her hand are drawn more like 20mm

.

Whaaa..!!??? 30 mm?! I hate to be a spoilsport, but I don't see how could have a hand-held 30 mm firearm(unless it was some kind of 1-shot super-pistol, but that'd be to impractical, even fr anime). I mean, those are the kinds of rounds that the A-10 uses in its cannon, and those are for tearing apart tanks! not people. Oh well, considering it's an anime, I 'spose I should cut them some slack.

[mechana2015]

Whaaa..!!??? 30 mm?! I hate to be a spoilsport, but I don't see how could have a hand-held 30 mm firearm(unless it was some kind of 1-shot super-pistol, but that'd be to impractical, even fr anime). I mean, those are the kinds of rounds that the A-10 uses in its cannon, and those are for tearing apart tanks! not people. Oh well, considering it's an anime, I 'spose I should cut them some slack.

...Its a rifle in both the anime and the manga... and a darn big one at that. (probably ~10' long)

[rocklobster]

Of course, there's the rule of bad guy accuracy in anime:
No matter how hard they try not to, the bad guy almost always misses a shot. Even at point blank range.

[Token Asian]

Kirika's Beretta just reeks of insufficent stopping power...

But Henrietta and her FN P90... friggin' awesome! Didn't she also carry that new FN pistol?

I'd like to see Rico (from Gunslinger Girl) with a USAS-12.

[Godly Paladin]

What is up with the 'home-boy' style? Why do they do that? What does it signify? I've wondered this for a long time...

[Yojimbo]

Kirika's Beretta just reeks of insufficent stopping power...

But Henrietta and her FN P90... friggin' awesome! Didn't she also carry that new FN pistol?

I'd like to see Rico (from Gunslinger Girl) with a USAS-12.

I don't know there as my ex cop uncle says it doesn't matter when ya put two in the chest and one in the head what the weapon is chambered in. Besides there's something like 16 models of the Beretta and I know at least one of them is chambered for .40SW.

The newest FN Herstal pistol is the FNP-9, it's only two or three years old.

[mechana2015]

Nothing but a dumb way to fire a gun that does not allow you to aim... and break your wrist with bigger calibers.

[Kaligraphic]

The "homeboy grip" is the stupid sideways grip that you see sometimes. If you are aiming dead on, the fact that most people are taller than they are wide means that unless you're fighting an overweight midget the recoil alone makes it a less accurate grip - and then there's the aforementioned fact that it is hard on the wrist in more serious calibers, plus the fact that the sights on a pistol are located on the top, meaning that they're useless in that grip. It's a lot harder in general to aim with that kind of grip, which is why you'll never see it used by a veteran Marine or a seasoned mercenary or pretty much anyone who actualy knows how to shoot.

It's used because it looks vaguely cool on the streets and is what you might see there, but you'll never see it used by a real soldier. (or by police)

[Token Asian]

I was thinking about the Five-seveN pistol. It uses the same round as the P90.

[mechana2015]

I have a charachter armed with one of those

[Godly Paladin]

Thanks, Kaligraphic and mechana.

[Geirr]

Whaaa..!!??? 30 mm?! I hate to be a spoilsport, but I don't see how could have a hand-held 30 mm firearm(unless it was some kind of 1-shot super-pistol, but that'd be to impractical, even fr anime). I mean, those are the kinds of rounds that the A-10 uses in its cannon, and those are for tearing apart tanks! not people. Oh well, considering it's an anime, I 'spose I should cut them some slack.[/QUOTE]

The show mentions (verbally) that it is a 30mm (which got my ears and eyebrows up FAST) for exactly the reasons you already cite. The rifle is assdembled out of a flat case and has a bipod. It really does look like an anti-tank rifle, like say the Lahti or Solothurn - something to park out in the shrubs and wait for the right moment to puncha a D-battery sized hole in medium armor plate. ("SURPRISE!")

The cartridges are shouldered and are a littl stubby - they look like Vulcan 20mm when scaled against her hand.

[mechana2015]

she's a vampire too... so she can handle the kick.

[Kaligraphic]

Kick, sure, but you should see all the time she spent off-camera just trying to get the bloody thing around corners!