How do you decide about "demons" and "magic"?

[Alice]

A lot of anime and mange has "demons" in it. My brother and others have said that's just the translation, it means something like "beast from another world," I forget exactly. Anyway I accepted that excuse, but when I gave up anime and manga awhile ago (for several reasons), I finally admitted to myself that I didn't really believe it. I still kind of thought 'demon' meant 'demon.'

Now I'm into manga and anime again, but I try to stay away from things with 'demons' in them.

I was wondering how you all here handle it.

(I also have the same problems with magic. Sometimes it's probably just a quick way to throw in impossibilities, but I can never quite convince myself that it's not wrong.)

Avoiding all manga with demons and magic elements doesn't leave a whole lot left, however it's worth it if it keeps my conscience clear. Anyway, I guess I just wondered how you all deal with this kind of stuff. :/

Hopefully not an angry thread starter.

[Arnobius]

Well, how do you feel about the use of magic in Books (LOTR for example or Harry Potter) or TV (Bewitched or those other shows) or RPGs? I don't have problems with magic in a fantasy setting (like Lodoss War), though I don't like it if they show it as good in modern stuff (especially when they show religion as bad).

As for demons, the basic concept for the Japanese is Oni. It's different from the concept of demon because while most oni are evil, sometimes they can be good.

Ultimately, you need to sort what you think based on your conscience and what your denomination teaches (if anything). If it really troubles you, you should avoid that kind of stuff.

God bless as you discern

[kazekami]

That is a good concern. Oni, Youkai, Mazouki, and so on often get grouped into the catagorey of demon. However, demons are all bad. But not nessicarily so with these groups. Now if its some weird title where they have Satan as a sympathetic characther I'm not reading it. And I did find one like that. -_-. I basically look at the series and see how are they portraying the so called "demons" are they actually that or are they some bad some good. I agree with what AnimeHeretic says. When I first watched Escaflowne i was disturbed by the fact that there was a penticle and tarot cards in it. I talked to my mom about it and she said it was ok to watch. Just not to play with those kind of things in real life. My mom likes to watch Vampire films. The best thing is avoid the stuff that troubles you. If it feels like its something bad don't watch it or read it. If it bothers your conscience its not good. My aunt who is a new christian says we shouldn't read things like fantasy and science fiction. However, I think that you can read both depending on what the story is. I think its up to everyone. Examine what your domination believes and pray on it.

[Hephzibah]

A lot of anime and mange has "demons" in it. My brother and others have said that's just the translation, it means something like "beast from another world," I forget exactly. Anyway I accepted that excuse, but when I gave up anime and manga awhile ago (for several reasons), I finally admitted to myself that I didn't really believe it. I still kind of thought 'demon' meant 'demon.'

Now I'm into manga and anime again, but I try to stay away from things with 'demons' in them.

I was wondering how you all here handle it.

(I also have the same problems with magic. Sometimes it's probably just a quick way to throw in impossibilities, but I can never quite convince myself that it's not wrong.)

Avoiding all manga with demons and magic elements doesn't leave a whole lot left, however it's worth it if it keeps my conscience clear. Anyway, I guess I just wondered how you all deal with this kind of stuff. :/

Hopefully not an angry thread starter.

Actually, that is basically exactly what I am like. Like you said, it doesn't leave alot behind, but I think it is better to be safe when it comes to these kind of things than it is to get caught up in it.

[uc pseudonym]

Intially, I'd like to answer your question, and then I think I may have something to say to you. This is a frequent topic, but perhaps that is not entirely bad.

Personally, I consider "demons" (or angels) of manga/anime by large to be no more than "spirits" that have been poorly named. Many times these do not at all resemble Judeo-Christian angels. When they do (whether specifically modeled after such or merely resembling them, as in Wish), I am generally skeptical of the series. All the more so if it appears they find it interesting to take a "new" look at the original text.

As for magic, that depends upon how it is treated. If characters make pentagrams in their own blood to summon demons... that's one thing. A force or science that exists in their world and not in ours is quite different, and not generally harmful in my mind.

A lot of anime and mange has "demons" in it. My brother and others have said that's just the translation, it means something like "beast from another world," I forget exactly. Anyway I accepted that excuse, but when I gave up anime and manga awhile ago (for several reasons), I finally admitted to myself that I didn't really believe it. I still kind of thought 'demon' meant 'demon.'

First, let me say that you have every right to discern for yourself, and that even if I consider certain issues harmless you could be correct in your personal decision. However, if this is strictly an issue of not wanting to read/watch manga/anime with demons, then I think you need not worry.

I think I can presume you are a fan of Beyblade. Now, I haven't read the Japanese version, not being very interested in the first place, but in my mind there is no practical difference between most "demons" and the "BitBeasts" of the series. Different names, essentially the same creatures. If they were named as demons, would that change the series?

The same example relates to magic. Much of the series contains obviously supernatural elements (unless you want to write it all off as the element of manga/anime that exaggerates reality). This is "magic" as much as a spellcaster shooting flames is. I personally don't see the difference.

[Mangafanatic]

You really should glance over these thread. They deal with this subject at length:

http://www.christiananime.net/showthread.php?t=18138&page=1&pp=10&highlight=magic

http://www.christiananime.net/showthread.php?t=10140&highlight=magic

http://www.christiananime.net/showthread.php?t=2382&highlight=magic

My opinion is stated in several of those threads, but I'll just tack it on here in the case that you decide not to look over those threads.

This is a very sticky issue, and I'll be the first to admit that it's not a BLACK and WHITE issue. In the end, this call comes to the individual or his or her parents if tht is the case. Okay there's my view on this issue.

The Bible forbids us to practice sorcery, but I can't find reason to believe that this verse then condemns a book or game which contains magic. If the verses in the bible which condemned magic also condemned any book, movie, or game containing magic, then the bible would be self condemning. Afterall, Saul consulted a medium to call up a dead spirit. Within the Bible, there is magic.

Furthermore, I believe the mature of the magic in question is a major point in wether you should watch the game or not. Is the magic inchantational or invocational. Inchantational magic is the kind of magic in LOTR, the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, and many other very popular phantasy books. This kind of magic is when words produce a supernatural effect. (Similar to when God spoke creation into existance.) On the other hand, there's invocational magic, which involves the calling down of spirits. It is done entirely by the power of spirits. .(One classic example of the difference between the two is in Prince Caspian: Prince Caspian is trapped in a labirinth of caves and his opposing arm is bearing down upon them. Defeat seems inevitable. So what do they do? Bring forth the magic horn of Queen Susan. Well, they blow the horn and hunker down and wait for help. In the meantime, one doubting dwarf manages to round up a hag who is capable of calling up the spirit fo the white witch. Caspian is practicing inchantational magic and the hag is practicing invocational magic.) This magic I prefer to avoid, but I don't rule out that I'd ever read anything with hints of this magic. Wether I read it or not would be decided by my next magic criteria.

This next question I ask myself about magic in entertainment is-- how do the characters themselves and characters around them view the invocational magic. Do they see it as evil? Are there consequences for calling down spirits? Do the spirits aid the characters without extracting a penalty. If there are consquences and the magic is viewed as bad in the end-- then I would be much more inclined to enjoy that entertainment.

[Alice]

Well, how do you feel about the use of magic in Books (LOTR for example or Harry Potter) or TV (Bewitched or those other shows) or RPGs? I don't have problems with magic in a fantasy setting (like Lodoss War), though I don't like it if they show it as good in modern stuff (especially when they show religion as bad).

As for demons, the basic concept for the Japanese is Oni. It's different from the concept of demon because while most oni are evil, sometimes they can be good.

Thanks for the answer, everyone!

Yeah, actually, some of that does bother me. (I don't do Bewitched, RPGs, and I stopped with Harry Potter.) To tell the truth I wondered about LOTR a lot too, but I'm used to it now, since I heard more about it, and heard Tolkien was a Catholic. For awhile, I lapsed my standards and read/watched stuff with some magic in, but I didn't really ever feel quite right about it.

I hear the stuff you guys are saying, and it's definitely important to think about. It's nice to be able to talk about this stuff and have people understand.

To give you a clue, when I was younger, my mom wanted to read the Chronicles of Narnia to us children, and I locked myself into the bathroom crying because I thought it was bad with the magic and stuff. She talked to me and explained that it was sort of alegory or something... I don't know.

Anyway, this has been an issue for me since that age... rather young, I might add, in case anyone thinks I still do that with the locking and the bathroom.

[Nate]

Well, ya know what the Bible says. "Different strokes for different folks."

Oh, wait...I don't think the Bible quite says that. Well, it says something that could be paraphrased as such, and that's good enough for me! ^^;;

[IZ&Trigun4life]

I under where you all are comming from..I my self am not allowed to watch anything portraying magic or demonic figures. as for Science fiction and Fantasy...depends...because not ALL that has magic and evil spirits. Ex:...Fantasy has dragons and monsters like ogres and goblins and drawfs (and things like you'd find in J.R.R Tolkien's The Hobbit,) fairies. nymphs, pixies which are portayed as magical creatures but not as in.."craftic hocus pocus stuff", though some parents still forbid them. But anything with Wizards Sorcerers witches and things like that are what you have to worry about. As in with Science fiction or Paranormal, aliens, time travel...bigfoot things of that aren't so bad...but psychics and things of occultic nature are bad. And as for decifering the demon thing. MY mom freaks out when ever she sees a character that happens to look "weird or evil" and most of the time it isn't even a demon. Like someone else mentioned, Demons can be just monsters or something, but I'd still be careful, whenever I hear the word Demon when watching an Anime I get a bad feeling. I just ask God to give me wisdom and discernment as to what to watch. It's between you and God.

heh I don't think me responding serves any purpose..I just want to be participant lol =)

[Myoti]

I go more with how my dad views it, and he's a preacher. Basically, he (and I) believe that the whole "magic" deal isn't much of a problem as long as you realize the difference in what's real and what's not. I mean, if you showed a little kid some sort fo cartoon or anime with some magic stuff in it, they'll probably go off and pretend to be the characters, but they're generally too young to understand it. There are some people, however, that get so focused on these things and try to do it as though it was real. That is when "magic" really becomes a problem.
My dad actually read Harry Potter and he said he preferred us reading something like that over alot of other "magic" books and movies.
With demons, typically I'm really against things that try to portray them as good, but there are those times that it's meant to be something else. I usually get more ticked with things that have false gods or try to depict "God" as something else, or someone who is not all powerful (i. e. Angel Sanctuary).

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

For all its controversy the Harry Potter books are a lot less harmful than Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" books.
IZ, anything with wizards, witches etc: like the Chronicles of Narnia I deem as fine as its by a Christian author or it is clear they are evil. In reality there is no good magic. Magic is like trying to control God and take destiny into your own hands, when its God who created you and has a special plan for your life.

[Alice]

I think I can presume you are a fan of Beyblade. Now, I haven't read the Japanese version, not being very interested in the first place, but in my mind there is no practical difference between most "demons" and the "BitBeasts" of the series. Different names, essentially the same creatures. If they were named as demons, would that change the series?

You figured it out?! (Yeah, but I bet you can't guess my fave character! )

Eh, okay. Actually, I was kind of worried that the bit beasts might be bad, too. Like, suppose they were demons? I avoided watching the series for a little bit, but then I kind of decided: it sure looks harmless, and it's better than some of the regular (American) TV I watch. So I started watching it. I guess I'm taking it just as a fantasy thing, fantasy creatures.

I can see what you mean, that sometimes "demons" really means monster or something else... I guess you have to be careful to look at the context.

The same example relates to magic. Much of the series contains obviously supernatural elements (unless you want to write it all off as the element of manga/anime that exaggerates reality). This is "magic" as much as a spellcaster shooting flames is. I personally don't see the difference.

Hm. Something to think about. No one talks about magic or demons, but it's obviously not based on reality So yeah, I still think about it, but not as much. (Perhaps I've lowered my standards too much! But it really doesn't seem like an awful show to me.)

[Crossdive]

A lot of anime and mange has "demons" in it. My brother and others have said that's just the translation, it means something like "beast from another world," I forget exactly. Anyway I accepted that excuse, but when I gave up anime and manga awhile ago (for several reasons), I finally admitted to myself that I didn't really believe it. I still kind of thought 'demon' meant 'demon.'

Now I'm into manga and anime again, but I try to stay away from things with 'demons' in them.

I was wondering how you all here handle it.

(I also have the same problems with magic. Sometimes it's probably just a quick way to throw in impossibilities, but I can never quite convince myself that it's not wrong.)

Avoiding all manga with demons and magic elements doesn't leave a whole lot left, however it's worth it if it keeps my conscience clear. Anyway, I guess I just wondered how you all deal with this kind of stuff. :/

Hopefully not an angry thread starter.

good question, I always question my boundaries between what I will and won't accept on this subject just to be careful, personally, I have a few guides:
1. Is demon an accurate translation? For example, InuYasha deals with mythical beasts called Youkai, but they are dubbed demons, when they aren't infact. Not to be confused with stuff like Yu Yu Hakusho which does infact deal with literal demons and stuff. Therefore, I love InuYasha, but stay away from Yu Yu Hakusho.
2. Assuming there is magic/demons, who is using it and in what way is it potrayed? Personally, I don't like when the good guys are the ones using magic are demon power or anything, it just goes against itself, however, if only the villain uses it and it is shown as evil, than it can actually be a plus on the show's behalf because it helps reaffirm the line between good and evil. For example, InuYasha: The Movie 2: Castle Beyond the Looking Glass. The main villainess of the film, Kaguya, uses dark powers and they very constantly use the pentagram symbol, but none of the good guys do any of this, therefore, it drew a clear line of how evil she is and that such things are not good nor can they be used for good.
3. What does your heart tell you. Listen for the Holy Spirit whenever you are doing something, this should apply to everything in your life. If you have a good enough discernment you are more likely to know what to try and not to try, God's word on things is the final and all-important vote. So above anything else, that is what to judge things by. Pray for strength and understanding and guidence, and ask Him to help you make the right choice on whatever you are debating on.

With those sorts of guides, I very rarely run into problems with whether what I watch is justifiable or not.

[brightsword_jon]

Hi! I'm glad that you are trying to be alert with these kind of things. About demons in anime, I think it's just a figment of someone's imagination. But, it could also be used by Satan, so beware. As for magic, there could be many possibilities. If they use witchcraft like rituals with sacrices, pentagrams, and such, it's bad. If it's like power from themselves or science, as mentioned by the other guy, that exist there but not here, it's ok. Magic in Final Fantasy is a good example. They have materia and other stuff in FF7, but I still have my suspicions on magic in FF 10. Anyways, be alert in the Lord Jesus Christ! He is the #1 source of truth!!!!

In Christ,
brightsword_jon

[uc pseudonym]

For all its controversy the Harry Potter books are a lot less harmful than Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" books.

I've often thought exactly that.

I can see what you mean, that sometimes "demons" really means monster or something else... I guess you have to be careful to look at the context.

Quite.

Hm. Something to think about. No one talks about magic or demons, but it's obviously not based on reality So yeah, I still think about it, but not as much. (Perhaps I've lowered my standards too much! But it really doesn't seem like an awful show to me.)

I don't feel it is an awful show in terms of content at all, so for whatever it's worth I would affirm your decision to think it acceptable.

[Jeikobu]

In something like InuYasha, demon is a bad translation. They are mythical creatures called "youkkai". Watch the Japanese version and you'll hear the word plenty. Besides, if they were real demons, InuYasha couldn't just slay them with his sword or claws. InuYasha has had a couple instances with more real demons, but they're always portrayed as evil.
I have limitations with magic, demons, false religion, etc. But it depends on how it's portrayed. Bottom line, it depends on what the Holy Spirit says.

[anime4christ]

You can call me Amish or whatever you want, but I personally don't accept anything with magic/witchcraft or demons, doesn't matter what kind. I like to read Christian manga. And most of the anime I ever watched was 99.9% or 100% magic-free. Don't go on a compromise with your concience, remember it was God who gave it to you, if you feel uncomfortable with something, don't watch/read it. The Bible talks about watching/reading/looking
[quote="Psalm 101:3"]I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside]

[MorwenLaicoriel]

I'm probably going to sound like a broken record, but lemme say what I think:

When magic is potrayed as something natural to the world, which is used like any other skill, I don't really see the problem with it. The problem comes from when they're using magic like magic is here in the 'real world'--calling on spirits. Then, I tend to avoid the show.

As for demons (or angels, for that matter)...I think there's one Japanese word that's used for an otherwordly, spirtual being that's often translated as 'demon', 'angel' or 'god'. For example, I don't think the 'gods' of Princess Mononoke are really gods--they certainly don't have anyone worshiping them. I guess I consider it the same way I view wizards/valar in Lord of the Rings--they're beings who are under the one true God.

I won't watch a show that obviously twists Christian truths for its own purposes, though.

EDIT: I forgot to mention--really, like what others have said--it all comes down to what you believe God is telling you. Different people have different limits--some people actually worship the Valar from Tolkien's books, even though he'd be disgusted by that. So...like others have said, you should definately be caucious, and see what God is trying to tell you.

[anime4christ]

One thing I can say is God wouldn't tell one person something and something different to someone else. Of all the different opinions, only one is right. Nobody post which one they think it is, because that can cause a flamewar, it's just up to Alice to decide what seems right.

[MorwenLaicoriel]

But that's not always true...it may be wrong for one person to go to a Christian College, because God is calling them somewhere else, but it's right for another person because God's calling them to go another place. Since it never actually says in the Bible "You may not have any stories that take place in a world other than your own", all you have to do is leave it up to your decernment.

[Nate]

One thing I can say is God wouldn't tell one person something and something different to someone else.

That's a false statement. I could give a very personal example from my own life, but I will not. So I will give a more general example.

5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. - Romans 14:5 and 6

To me, that verse clearly states that on matters that are not explicitly discussed in the Bible, such as fantasy anime, are up to each and every person to decide on their own. And God may very well tell Alice, "It's not okay to watch Lodoss War," while He tells Myoti, "It's okay to watch Lodoss War." (I just made up two names on the spot ^^;; )

And there's no such thing as a correct opinion. By definition, an opinion is based on something that cannot be proven by fact (i.e. "Green is the best color!" cannot be proven, therefore it is opinion). Any opinion that can be proved wrong is not an opinion at all (i.e. "That is blue!" can be proven false by examining the color wavelengths and showing that it falls into the green spectrum, not blue, therefore it is not an opinion).

Just my 12 and half cents. ^^

[anime4christ]

But that's not always true...it may be wrong for one person to go to a Christian College, because God is calling them somewhere else, but it's right for another person because God's calling them to go another place. Since it never actually says in the Bible "You may not have any stories that take place in a world other than your own", all you have to do is leave it up to your decernment.

I mean God wouldn't tell someone killing is bad and someone else that killing is good (and just cuz a lot of great ppl from the Bible killed, it's still a bad thing to do). Those kind of things.

[anime4christ]

[quote="kaemmerite"]That's a false statement. I could give a very personal example from my own life, but I will not. So I will give a more general example.

5 One man considers one day more sacred than another]
Okay, how about this:
Baptist opinion: no tongues
Pentacostal opinion: tongues
how can both be right or wrong at the same time?
one is right, one is wrong, and I'm not going to state my opinion about that here. I'm only giving an example.

[Nate]

Okay, how about this:
Baptist opinion: no tongues
Pentacostal opinion: tongues
how can both be right or wrong at the same time?
one is right, one is wrong, and I'm not going to state my opinion about that here. I'm only giving an example.

Well, if you remember, the Old Testament says to honor the Sabbath Day and keep it holy. However, quoting the verse I just said over again:

One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

If the OT says the keep the Sabbath Day holy, how then is it that Romans says it's okay to not keep the Sabbath Day holy? Obviously, it is something that is not important to God, so long as the person has an honest and faithful heart. So it is with fantasy anime. Obviously, God is not concerned with whether you watch it or not, so long as you are fully convinced in your own mind that it is okay and will not draw you further from God.

Same thing with tongues, to get back to your point. God doesn't care whether you believe in it or not...so long as your heart is in the right place, it doesn't matter.

[anime4christ]

Well, seems to me I take everything in life more seriously than you do kaem. That's one of the reasons why these topics are so controversial.

[Cognitive Gear]

Well, I might just want to point out that your verses were from two different testaments. The whole sabbath idea was part of the law. It has been done away with like not eating that wich was "unclean".

Just wanted to point out that, unfortunately, your example wasn't the best. I do want to hear your opinion though, as I have never met anyone who believes that God can tell two different people two different things and have both be right. (I feel sheltered now.) so if you could give me another example, that'd be great. ^^

[Stephen]

Wow, what part of no theology debating was misunderstood...