Suggestions for two movies and a series

[Jeikobu]

More suggestions wanted please, sorry if this is annoying but there are so many anime to ask about. ^^

Metropolis-Nothing looks bad about this but I thought I'd ask anyway, besides I wouldn't mind personal opinions.
Perfect Blue-Sounds graphic on both violent and more importantly sexual matters, so I'm less certain about this one.
Saiyuki-This goes for anything related to it, including Saiyuki Reloaded. This is I'm really not liking the sound of, but I want to know for sure. What's it like material-wise?

[Rogie]

Zane has written a review on Metropolis, which you can find in the reviews section.

In my opinion, Metropolis is a beautiful movie. It's actually my fave movie of all time. I encourage you to watch it.

[Kaori]

I simply can't recommend Perfect Blue. There is quite a bit of sexual content, including one part where the main character, an actress, is acting out a rape scene and a photo shoot in which the photographer has her progressively take off more and more clothing, ending with her being completely naked (if I remember correctly). Although the movie tends to be fairly highly regarded by critics, I personally did not enjoy it; I honestly can't think of any redeeming qualities that would possibly make it worth watching. There is, however, a different movie by the same director, Millennium Actress, that is clean, positive, and morally uplifting. That, I would recommend highly. Besides being clean, it is simply an excellent movie.

I have seen part of Saiyuki Reload but not the entire series. The main issues are violence and profanity, although on those counts there is nothing terribly extreme. There is some sexuality (one of the main characters is a ladies' man) but I don't remember seeing anything explicit in the episodes I watched. Also, like Inuyasha, it features youkai as main characters. The heroes are a high priest of Buddhism (who, however, has very low moral standards), a monkey-type youkai, a half-youkai "water" sprite, and a human who became a youkai by killing a thousand or so of them. The plot is based on a Chinese myth, I believe; and the characters are traveling west in order to put a stop to the phenomenon that has caused all the other youkai in the world, who had previously been living in peace with the humans, to go berserk. Also...

[spoiler=Saiyuki Reload]The final villain of the Reload series is another Buddhist monk who calls himself "kamisama" ("God"). He is not actually God, he only calls himself that; however, that might make a difference in whether you choose to watch the series.[/spoiler]
Anyways, from what I have seen of it, the quality of Saiyuki Reload is fairly good.

[Jeikobu]

I simply can't recommend Perfect Blue. There is quite a bit of sexual content, including one part where the main character, an actress, is acting out a rape scene and a photo shoot in which the photographer has her progressively take off more and more clothing, ending with her being completely naked (if I remember correctly). Although the movie tends to be fairly highly regarded by critics, I personally did not enjoy it]
I already want to see Millennium Actress, I'm just not sure about Perfect Blue.

As for Metropolis, the only thing that bothers me at all is the stuff under "Religious Material Details".

Heres the fun bit. The Ziggurat is like the "Tower of Babel" of Metropolis, and it is mentioned as such by characters in the film. And we all know what happened to the Tower of Babel, don't we The characters mention God getting angry and destroying the tower, but in the sub, I think it, they say gods. Its a running theme throughout the movie so God/gods is mentioned a couple of times with reference to the Ziggurat. Rock briefly prays to the gods for strength to protect his father - it's like one sentence.

But Tima is also portrayed as a 'Saviour' for the Robots, that’s how I saw it anyway. There’s a scene where she is standing looking up into a ray of light and a dove lands on her shoulder, and people in the background are say things like "Isn't she heavenly", "She looks like an Angel". i.e. when Jesus got baptized by John. When Tima's sitting on the Throne the walls behind her fall away into the shape of a Cross as well furthering this imagery of Messiah. There may be other minor innuendos which I have missed.

The first paragraph doesn't bother me as much as long as they don't go on about it too much (if these are false gods they are talking about). But I enjoy Fullmetal Alchemist and the people in Ishbal worship a false god, so as long as the material in Metropolis isn't stronger than that.
As for the second paragraph, it depends on how it's portrayed. I like it when the character serves as a metaphor to the Messiah, but not when they try to turn the character into the Messiah. How is this done in the movie?

[Rogie]

Oh, it's definitely a metaphor. Tima is never actually said to be the Messiah or anything like that. It's just that her actions allow her to be compared to Christ. It's actually an elegant metaphor once you watch the movie a couple of times and begin noticing more and more fine details alluding to her Christ-likeness and other elements' symbolic representations of Biblical elements.

And yeah, Millennium Actress is great. Watch it!

[Arnobius]

Millenium Actress (PG) and Tokyo Godfathers (PG-13) are both excellent Satoshi Kon films.

Perfect Blue is a film that requires an adult audience, though there are some moral issues tucked away in there if you can get beyond the graphic violence, full frontal nudity, simulated rape and attempted rape. One issue that struck me about this movie was the one of conscience and consequences. The main character, Mina, undertakes some morally repugnant choices to further her career as an actress, offending many who knew her "squeaky clean" image she had as an idol singer.

However, the content is something that should NOT be taken lightly. It had to be CUT to receive an R rating in AMerica. The DVD is uncensored! I threw out my copy because it is explicit, even though not pornographic.

[Jeikobu]

I think I will give Metropolis a shot. But I'm still not sure about Perfect Blue or Saiyuki.
By full frontal, are you just referring to the chest, or that as well as the, ahem, "lower area" as well? And how much of this material is there in the movie? It sounds pretty graphic, but how much of this is there? Does it ruin the movie? And bottom line, is this something that a Christian should see?

[Arnobius]

I think I will give Metropolis a shot. But I'm still not sure about Perfect Blue or Saiyuki.
By full frontal, are you just referring to the chest, or that as well as the, ahem, "lower area" as well? And how much of this material is there in the movie? It sounds pretty graphic, but how much of this is there? Does it ruin the movie? And bottom line, is this something that a Christian should see?

Hmm, how to do this without getting too obsessed in details that might be inappropriate...
The female nudity in one scene is supposed to be a photo in a magazine, and it shows both the breasts and genitalia. There is lesser nudity earlier in the movie during the photoshoot that resulted in the full nude picture. The simulated rape and the attempted rape involved some topless nudity. If I had to make a comparison, I'd say it was very close to Ninja Scroll-- a movie I do *NOT* recommend.

As for the bottom line, A christian should have a VERY good reason for watching it (in my case, I was studying the limits put on Japanese non-porn movies made for adults), and not just have it for casual viewing, as the images can be rather disturbing. If your conscience troubles you, I'd recommend skipping it.

[That Dude]

I really wouldn't recommend Saiyuki to you Jeikabu...Like Kaori said there are a lot of Yokai...And the dub of it has a large amount of cussing. As for Metropolis RS is right about the "tower of bable" thing...Though he is gonna not like me for this I really didn't like it at all. The story was ok at best (to me at least) and I really don't like Ozoma Tezuka's (I can't remember the right spelling of his name at the moment.) art style...Besides about three characters everyone was horribly annoying to me. It's not a bad film though and you might want to check it out but i didn't like it at all. And I would warn you to stay away from Saiyuki...Definately not your type of show at all.

[Rocketshipper]

*steps in, clad in armor* Perfect Blue, I shall defend thy honor! lol

Seriously, I'd actully recommend Perfect Blue *everyone stares at him* no, really! It was one of the first anime I ever saw. I rented the edited version at hollywood and loved it. I'm a big fan of horror movies and it reminded me of a more mature and intelligent version of Scream. It's still one of my all time favorite movies, regular or anime. It has good animation (by studio Madhouse YAY!), an AWESOME soundtrack full of emotional pop songs, an interesting main character, and a pretty good english dub, especially for Manga Entertainment. Two of my ALL time favorite english dub actors, Wendee Lee and Ruby Marlowe, play the main characters in the dub. Satoshi Kon is an awesome director. Much of the trippyness of the plot is actully due to the way the director transitions between scenes and stuff. Last semester I used the movie as part of my final project in the class "Unreality" and I talked about all the weird trippyness and stuff. I think the movie has a good message aimed at the entertainment companies, and that message is "Be aware of how what you do affects both the audience and the actors/singers/etc." In the movie Mima's move from squeaky clean pop idol to sexy TV drama star affects the way her fans view her, some in a VERY negative way, but besides that the career decisions Mima makes affect HER in a very real way. Mima tells other people that the rape scene she had to do was "just acting" and that she views it only "as a hurdle she had to get over as an actress" but it becomes clear that it is much more than that, that bad decision affects her in a very real way. The movie definitly isn't for anyone under age, due to the already mentioned sexual content and bloody violence, but I think someone who is mature enough and enjoys a good physcological mystery would like this movie.

Nurse A: Hey, isn't that Mima Kiregoy?
Nurse B: Mima Kiragoy, no way.
Nurse A: Well, maybe she's just a look alike.
Mima: (comments to herself) Nope, I'm the real thing.

"When I pass through this station on the train
I get heart-broken with nostalgia
of when I was bubbly and hid all of my shaking emotions
under my school uniform.

I was head-over-heels and at the same time confused
My first love came with the four seasons
I remember, just by being by your side,
it would make me love you even more,
no matter what the season.

I've cut my hair since graduating
I wonder if you haven't changed, even now.
Are you still searching for the dream
we always used to talk about on the way home?

It brought with it many tears
as deep in my heart, I pondered the four seasons.
I remember the sunset after school.
All I wanted was to spend time
together with you.

When I'm sad, it's just my habit to act strong.
I'm not healed; this new season is just like that day.
You've realized it too, haven't you?
I'll never forget your eyes as you gazed at me
in silence"

[That Dude]

Actually I've wanted to check out Perfect Blue for the longest time but I've never been able to find an edited version...How much is edited out? And where can you find it?

[GhostontheNet]

On the whole Metropolis Messiah issue, I had disputed Zane on whether the movie actually sought to portray this in detail at http://www.christiananime.net/showthread.php?t=16778 , to which he replied;

Hmm, thats pretty thoughtful Ghost. You are probably more in tune with what the Directors thoughts were, and you're right the climax was not protraying Tima as a Messiah, it could be seen that way though, as I originally did.

[Arnobius]

IIRC, the edited (rated R by the MPAA) version was available only on VHS in a dubbed version, and I believe they removed the full frontal nudity shot and cut some frames from the rape scenes [looks like 3 minutes removed]. I cannot find it anywhere new, only the uncut dub and the sub (which was released as it was shown in Japan). The DVD is uncut. If you want to look for it, remember to put the words "rated edition" in your google (saw it used on Amazon).


And to Rocketshipper: I agree the movie was excellent and for all the reasons you mention, but given the forum, I wouldn't casually recommend it to people, especially as so many are minors. The viewer should be aware of the very disturbing content, which is why I said a Christian should have a good reason for watching it and not just pop it in for the friday night movie

[Ichigo_89]

Metropolis is a classic in my book. Really good! Highly recommended. Buy it or rent it ASAP! You won't regret it.

[Rocketshipper]

I wouldn't casually recommend it to people, especially as so many are minors. The viewer should be aware of the very disturbing content

Thats why I said "The movie definitly isn't for anyone under age, due to the already mentioned sexual content and bloody violence, but I think someone who is mature enough and enjoys a good physcological mystery would like this movie." ^_^

Unfortunetly, I don't think the edited version is availible to buy. The only place I've ever seen it is for rental in video stores. All the VHS copies I've seen for sale are uncut.

[That Dude]

Yeah I've wanted to see Perfect Blue but it sounds to raunchy...So does it cut out most all the "graphic nudity?" or do you guys know? I love the disturbing psycological stuff but I just don't want to see any of the sexual stuff...So though I want to see it, it sounds like I'll have to forgo it because the edited sounds kind of dirty still. Sorry for hijacking the thread!

[Jeikobu]

I really wouldn't recommend Saiyuki to you Jeikabu...Like Kaori said there are a lot of Yokai...And the dub of it has a large amount of cussing. I would warn you to stay away from Saiyuki...Definately not your type of show at all.

I don't have a problem with youkkai. I love InuYasha and that has loads of youkkai. All they are are mythical Japanese creatures. No big deal. As for the cussing thing, I watch subbed anime like 98% of the time. Can you elaborate more on why you don't think I'd like it?

As for Perfect Blue, from what I'm reading here it's sounding like the bad stuff in the movie is their to illustrate a point: how bad and harmful it is, which is a good message. However the sexual content sounds very excessive which is the only thing that worries me. Even if the movie sends a good message, I don't know if it would be worth trying to survive all of that bad visual stuff.

[Rocketshipper]

well, if we watch it we could always just fast forward through the really graphic scenes ^_^.

The edited VHS version cuts out the most graphic sexual content. The scene where Mima has to act out a sexual assault for her TV drama is cut way down, the scenes showing Mima's nude magazine pictures are shortened so they don't show anything below the waist, and a scene near the end where someone attempts to assault Mima is shortened to cut out the most graphic bits. There is also one murder scene that is cut WAAAY down in the R rated version. The scene has a lot more blood and violence in the uncut version, and its also intercut with more shots of Mima's nude photos. I could tell you all the specific things that were cut, but I probably shouldn't go into that much detail here, so if you want a more detailed idea of what was cut, PM me or something ^^

[Arnobius]

Yeah I've wanted to see Perfect Blue but it sounds to raunchy...So does it cut out most all the "graphic nudity?" or do you guys know? I love the disturbing psycological stuff but I just don't want to see any of the sexual stuff...So though I want to see it, it sounds like I'll have to forgo it because the edited sounds kind of dirty still. Sorry for hijacking the thread!

If you're interested in the psychological aspect without the explicitness, Millenium Actress makes use of the technique as well.

[Debitt]

I don't have a problem with youkkai. I love InuYasha and that has loads of youkkai. All they are are mythical Japanese creatures. No big deal. As for the cussing thing, I watch subbed anime like 98% of the time. Can you elaborate more on why you don't think I'd like it?

Saiyuki is based on a Buhddist legend, Journey to the West. For this reason, the anime not only has some Buhddist influence (the main character, Sanzo, is a Buhddist priest and uses scriptures to defeat youkai), but also a hint of a "you don't live for anyone but yourself" mentality. Later in the series, a fair amount of the plot takes place in the Buhddist version of Heaven, and shows "gods" going about and just...acting like normal human beings, really. (the series also hints that the Heavens are corrupted, and such.) One of these gods, the War Prince Homura becomes one of the main antagonists of the plot. But you have to keep in mind that these 'gods' are in no way like the one true God. In fact, they're even more underpowered than the Greek or Roman gods. The only real sign that they're even gods at all is their immunity to Sanzo's exorcism gun, which is used against demons, and their somewhat superhuman strength. Oh yeah, and cool flashy swords. Oooo.

There's a fair also amount of violence and fanservice (it didn't bug me too much, though, and I have a pretty low threshold for fanservice). And don't watch the dub. =/ ADV really took a lot of liberties and added a fair share of swearing that wasn't there in the Japanese version.

[That Dude]

Yeah I just remembered you saying that you were bothered by Spirited away and there are a lot more spirits in Saiyuki but Kokoro pretty much got it right. It's about as bad as Inuyasha but the cussing in the dubbed version get excessive. From the sub I saw there was still quite a bit but not as much as the dub. I own the series though...But to tell you the truth I find the plotline and way it was made pretty cliche'd and Americanized. But it is pretty entertaining even with that.

AnimeHeretic...I've seen Mellinium Actress. I did like the trippy psychologicalness of it. I've wanted to see PB for a long time but the edited version still sounds pretty naughty...I mean I don't mind the violence but it sounds like there is still to much nudity.

[Debitt]

Yeah I just remembered you saying that you were bothered by Spirited away and there are a lot more spirits in Saiyuki

The difference between spirits in Saiyuki and the spirits in Spirited Away is that the youkai of Saiyuki are really no more than a different race of people - somewhat akin in the elves of LOTR in a way. The spirits in Spirited Away are based upon the traditional spirits in Japanese mythology and occupy (most of the time) a realm other than our own, and are not tangible. More like ghosts than elves.

[Arnobius]

AnimeHeretic...I've seen Mellinium Actress. I did like the trippy psychologicalness of it. I've wanted to see PB for a long time but the edited version still sounds pretty naughty...I mean I don't mind the violence but it sounds like there is still to much nudity.

Yes, it is pretty much an adults only film and not for casual viewing. The edited R rated version seems to be no longer available, so you'd probably be better off avoiding it.

Like I said earlier, Millineum Actress did all the sudden scene changes and shifts in perspective as PB did, so if that was what you were interested in, you've seen it carried out in a much more wholesome context.

[Rocketshipper]

to offer yet another perspective on Perfect Blue, I point you to this review from THEM anime.

http://www.themanime.org/viewreview.php?id=312

I think it captures the movie fairly well, the only thing I really don't agree with is that they say it's as violent as Ninja Scroll at some points. ^_^;; come on, NOTHING is as violent as Ninja Scroll. Also I don't remember that much swearing in it, but then again I sometimes tend to not notice it when it is there. The content description is at the bottom of the review. I really wish someone would translate the japanese novel to english, I want to read it. Also some random trivia, the movie was originally inteneded to be live action, but they didn;t get a big enough budget so they did it as an anime instead.

[Arnobius]

[quote="Rocketshipper"]to offer yet another perspective on Perfect Blue, I point you to this review from THEM anime.

http://www.themanime.org/viewreview.php?id=312

I think it captures the movie fairly well, the only thing I really don't agree with is that they say it's as violent as Ninja Scroll at some points. ^_^]
The swearing was there. Mangle... er, I mean Manga chose to put the f-word in the sub where the Japanese didn't justify it. From the little I saw of the dub, I remember there was swearing from the idol singers in the beginning of the movie.

And the movie was pretty close to Ninja Scroll in some ways (Ice pick murder and others) though with fewer scenes...

Building on your trivia, Satoshi Kon took the script and changed everything except the names. The popularity of the anime led to a Live action movie being made, which I've seen on eBay (most likely a boot)

[shooraijin]

NOTHING is as violent as Ninja Scroll.

Analogous to saying nobody is as violent as Genghis Khan, however.

[Arnobius]

Analogous to saying nobody is as violent as Genghis Khan, however.

I'm guessing that neither of you guys has seen "Angel Cop" which was substantially worse...

[Rocketshipper]

I remember that the grungy punks who threw stuff at Mima at the beginning swore some, but that's all I can remember. Mr. Memania probably said some during his big scene at the end. I think the punk with long grungy hair was voiced by Matt K. Miller ^^. And I don't think there is that much of a comparison between Ninja Scroll and Perct Blue's violence. Wtih the exception of that one ice pick murder, there really wasn't much blood splattering. In Ninja Scroll, on the other hand, at times it literally rained blood and body parts. And then there is Ninja Ressurection and Genocyber. I take it back, those two are probably worse than Ninja Scroll. I once rented the first episode of Genocyber, but after watching it I decided not to rent anymore, back then it was too gory even for a horror movie fan like me. It was more graphic than the Battle Royale manga

[shooraijin]

I'm guessing that neither of you guys has seen "Angel Cop" which was substantially worse...

It's not high on my list, no.

[Jeikobu]

Yeah I just remembered you saying that you were bothered by Spirited away and there are a lot more spirits in Saiyuki but Kokoro pretty much got it right. It's about as bad as Inuyasha but the cussing in the dubbed version get excessive. From the sub I saw there was still quite a bit but not as much as the dub. I own the series though...But to tell you the truth I find the plotline and way it was made pretty cliche'd and Americanized. But it is pretty entertaining even with that.

From what Kokoro said, I think I'll drop Saiyuki. I'm not liking the sound of it. And you are saying it's about as bad as InuYasha in terms of spirits and the like? So far InuYasha has had some spirit-related stuff, but most of that has to do with Kikyou and a couple other characters like Kanna. Granted I certainly dislike the whole soul-stealing thing, but that always seems to be portrayed as evil, just like sorcery, only characters like Naraku and Kagura use it. If there were much more of it, it would be a fair sized problem for me at least, but the level it's been at is tolerable I guess.

The difference between spirits in Saiyuki and the spirits in Spirited Away is that the youkai of Saiyuki are really no more than a different race of people - somewhat akin in the elves of LOTR in a way. The spirits in Spirited Away are based upon the traditional spirits in Japanese mythology and occupy (most of the time) a realm other than our own, and are not tangible. More like ghosts than elves.

Which is a shame, I would have loved to see Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke (Miyazaki films are awesome), but because of the excessive spirit/false god/etc. bit, well... >_<

From the sound of it, I think I may just need to skip Perfect Blue. It sounds too graphic, whether it's trying to send a good message or not.