Kare Kano: Eto... Souichiro and Yukino... NANI!?!?

Postby **AzuFan** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:35 pm

Is it true that they have pre-marital relations? (I know it's a big spoiler but.. This is something that should be addressed prior to watching the series)

I already bought the first and second dvd volumes... But after hearing about his I'm VERY hesitant to get the next one... As Belivers we know that... Umm... "True love waits..."
This seemed like such a promising series too...

I just have a question...

How does the series view it as? Is it looked down upon, or is it just "a normal teenage thing"?

Though, I could be taking this scene out of context... It could be used to teach a lesson, that having pre-marital relations is wrong... But I don't know... And if it says this kinda thing is alright... I'll have to stop collecting the series...

Postby **Ashley** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:40 pm

Yes, it's true it has it in it. I was just as shocked; I had seen the first two dvds as well.
Now, to be honest, I'm not sure exactly how they presented the scene OR how it was viewed. Somehow, part of me thinks it would be as the latter though...
perhaps someone here can offer a more detailed explanation.

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:49 am

I'd personally say it comes down to many different factors of personal conviction and of how serious it *is.*

I would not see something if it were explicitly depicted or made me want the same in real life. However, if I know I wouldn't ever want it in real life and if it were implied, I might not worry so much. . .hope that helped you.

Oh, by the way, you CAN buy a version of this anime on DVD that has the scene edited out if you're so convicted. . .

Postby **AzuFan** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:39 am

Thanks for telling me about the edited dvd... You see I'm 14 and starting to like girls... And I don't want this to be a bad influence on me... Even though I don't really use anime to learn from anyway...

Postby **Gypsy** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:24 am

Kare Kano vol. 1 was the first anime dvd I ever bought. I loved it, sent it to Texas, Ash loved it - then we got the same shocker you did about what happens later in the series.

After I found out what happens later in the series, I put that particular title aside. Whether I could get an edited version or not, it doesn't change the fact that the series built up to it and presented it as the natural thing to do when two people love each other. It glorifies teenage sex, and as far as I can tell, no negative consequences came from their actions.

It really is too bad, because the series was very stylish. The pressure to see premarital sex as "normal" can be seen in media all over the place. However, knowing what was going to happen in the series, I couldn't in good conscious continue to watch Kare Kano. It's bad enough to see promiscuity plastered all over the place, but it's worse to see (or have implied) two 15 (or 16?) year old characters that you've identified with and grown to love have their premarital sex justified.

Postby **Psycho Ann** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 11:18 am

That particular part was viewed as an "normal teenage thing" as a step furthur into their relationship. The actual scene itself was done *very* tactfully and I really don't see that it could incite anything like lust--only giving the undeniable info that they *did* do it.

Basically they have been away from each other for some time and through a series of events end up at his house.... yeah, like that ^^;; Then the next day they treat it like nothing has happened at all--so much, in fact, that I wouldn't believed *anything* happened if it weren't for that one episode.

So skipping that one episode doesn't really have an impact on the latter episodes (I mean, I don't even recall one flashback to that scene), I'm still wondering why they put it in at all.....

Postby **Nia-chan** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 7:00 pm

Another case of good anime gone bad... *detective music plays*...was that the only thing wrong with it, by the way?

Postby **ShiroiHikari** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:56 pm

Is that scene in the manga or does anyone know for sure?

Postby **BrianC** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:55 am

ShiroiHikari wrote:Is that scene in the manga or does anyone know for sure?

The sex scene is in the manga, and as was mentioned in another topic, like the anime, it was edited out of the US version. From what I heard, the scene was "tastefully done" with no nudity shown, but it is still a premarital sex scene.

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:42 pm

I'm not a big romances fan so I wouldn't care about watching Kare Kano anyway, but I just have one big question so we're not being hypocrites here.

If the scene was implied, then none of you who rejected the entire series for that scene in that episode alone can in good conscience say that you like other series with similar material (loud *COUGH* at Ashley you know what I'm talking about).

I just want a little more clarification on this, because while I don't approve of premarital sex at all in real life and do not really approve of its depiction or implication without consequences in fiction, I also disapprove of hypocrisy couched in "taking a stand."

That doesn't mean you have to *agree* with a particular depiction or implication, just that you state it from a viewpoint of personal distaste for the scene and provide a reason as compared to other similar content to which you are not so opposed.

Postby **DanekJovax** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:20 pm

Hmm... this is an interesting thread, and one I'm wanting to throw in my 3 yen's worth...

I have DVDs 1-3 of Kare Kano (US release) and then I got confirmation of that love scene towards the end of the series.

I'm in a little bit of a quandry, but not so much as whether or not I'll buy the rest of the DVD set, but wether or not I'll keep them after my wife and I finish watching it (I got her interested in this series, of all things!)

Anyways, irregardless of wether the so-called love scene was an implied message to the viewer or if it was something else, I still would weigh my own convictions against this facet of the story and ask myself this question:

Would Jesus watch this scene?

I'll let that one soak in...

Postby **Lufkin777** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 10:05 pm

This hole thing is sad, this was / is mine and my 11 year old sisters fav anime to watch togeather, thankfully the scean is only in one ep, and you would never know if you skiped the ep. They dont talk about it or anything other than that, i have 4 of the dvds as of now, and two of the manga, ill be buying the fith dvd soon, i do still love the show, i was JUST as shocked about this as any one though, only i dident know before time, it just happened in the ep. i dono which version i have tho, i must have the edited version bc it shows nothing in the form of nudity, nothing about the sex just them in bed. And im allmost positive that the sex isent in the manga... but i could be wrong. Anyways Ttyl God belss yall.

Ill just skip the ep, which i wish was takin out of the show, stupid crap sex. blah. lol

Postby **Mave** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 5:13 pm

I like KareKano...but just like EVA, I liked the earlier episodes, the last few episodes get kinda weird? ...Wished they didn't put in 'that' particular scene.

sigghh....If not, KareKano would have made it to my top ten list

Postby **Technomancer** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:21 pm

Well, I'll throw off my opinion (for whatever it's worth). I've finally rented the DVD in question, and seen the episode. There is no issue with editing because nothing is shown. It's more or less obvious what's happened after the fact.

And yes, although I haven't seen the next DVD, the following episodes don't really seem to change the relationship in anyway with regards to this event(for good or bad). You could probably skip this episode and be none the wiser. In retrospect, it seems odd that it resulted in so little character development. Does it *glorify* teen age sex? Not really, but neither does it uphold social or religious mores on the topic either. Realistically, I think the main issue is Arima's and Yukino's youth (what are they 15 or 16?). If they had been over 20's, I don't think there would have been as much of a fuss.

Postby **DanekJovax** » Sun Sep 28, 2003 9:48 pm

Techno makes a good point, and it really does draw a line on where one would tolerate this particular theme and decide to watch the series or not, as well as where it would place on a favorites list.

Though I'm sure anyone would agree with me that where we may personally allow ourselves to watch this ep (or simply skip it), we'd probably have serious reservations about introducing it to someone who is a lot younger than ourselves (under 18) or one of our own children (who hasn't seen it yet).

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 2:16 am

I agree with Techno and you on that. Mostly, I just want people who express their distaste with this series to express it as just that: distaste with the way this scene was carried out or personal dislike on this particular series.

Expressing it as "spiritual disdain," especially when you openly like other series with similar implications in an episode, albeit with older characters (*COUGH COUGH Wolfwood and Milly or Spike and Julia), is borderline hypocrisy.

That is my only quibble with the anti-Kare Kano side. I myself don't think I'd like Kare Kano-it sounds about as interesting as watching grass grow, sorry to the Kare Kano fans ~.^

One more question though if characters' age alone is your reason: From what I can pick up, Gundam Wing is a favorite series of some people who post here (and one I think I'd like). However, the series revolves around five fifteen year old boys fighting a war, opens with a somewhat suggestive opening theme ("Just Communication") and these young men that the story centers around may or may not have *ahem* questionable relationships with each other. What makes GW, then, more "acceptable" or "allowable" than Kare Kano?

Postby **Ashley** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:40 am

Because not once is there outright implications. There are no Spike/Julia "bed" scenes, there are no Wolfwood/Milly "breakfast" scenes, nothing like that. Not even black outs. Nothing.
What makes it such a yaoi-infested title is the fans. They think, oh five boys = five lovers, even when there is absolutely no proof of it. That's what makes it "acceptable" in my eyes: lack of any sort of suggestion in the actual show. That's why I stay far, far away from gundam stuff online. If you forget the fans, it's a clean show, despite the war theme.

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:56 pm

Let me just agree to disagree with your post.

I don't want to get in trouble or anything, and if you were just another user, I would continue this, but as you are someone with the power to ban me. . .I won't.

-^.^-

Postby **Psycho Ann** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:23 pm

Actually, it was slightly implied with Wolfwood/Milly. Milly sleeping on the bed (in her pajamas though) and Wolfwood smoking and looking out the window shirtless. If anything, it implied Milly DID spend the night with Wolfwood, but whether they just slept or had intercourse is open to interpretation. Spike/Julia also had it implied if I recall correctly. Spike/Julia has that topless embrace thing if I'm not wrong... but it was in flashback so it had a much shorter air time.

KK has a much more heavily implied scene which gives you the confirmation that yes, they did do it. Especially when Yukino took the bath afterwards. The plot before it lead to it and afterwards confirmed it before nearly removing any mention of it from the latter episodes.

All in all, it's outrageous that such young teens did it, but the series (like with Wolfwood/Milly and Spike/Julia) does not revovle around it nor does it seem to bring it up again latter. I just feel it really doesn't need to be put in but the writers did anyway to make it "deeper"--it wasn't to promote premarital sex in my opinion, just "showing" it.

Too bad they got that in, or it would have nearly become a flawless series (once you ignore the NGE like weirdness in the end).

Postby **Mave** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:04 am

I don't know about Trigun, but I think that 1/2 second flash of Spike/Julia was very convincing. 0.o

come to think of it, when comparing Milly/Wolfwood & Spike/Julia with Arima/Yukino, it was probably the age that threw me off. I admit I get pretty bothered with kids barely out from school, hopping into bed. I've read many shoujo manga titles, which features stuff like that pretty explicitly, "doing it in the classroom at night." Arghhh....why why why?! :bang:

I know Arima and Yukino didn't do it that way, (frankly, thought the portrayal was kinda sweet) But it would be so much better if they were already married. ^^;

BTW, I just realized that I don't have a top ten list coz I don't really watch that many anime titles.... :lol:

I take back what I wrote earlier, KareKano is one of the anime titles I'll recommend (as long as you know premarital sex ain't the way to go and don't mind the weird/dark feeling you get towards the end)

Postby **Azier the Swordsman** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 8:28 pm

Hmm... I had heard about this when the series was beggining to be released. I am interested in this series though, and I can always fast forward over that particular scene. BTW Are the U.S. DVD's automatically edited or are both unedited and edited versions avaliable?

Postby **DanekJovax** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:14 pm

The US release DVDs appear to be unedited, insofar as footage goes, as far as I can tell.

Postby **Haibane Shadsie** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 11:25 pm

Meh. It's everywhere in entertainment media, in movies and TV shows... Watch typical American TV, you get sex stuff. In fact... I just got sick of most sitcoms because the jokes revolved around sex. I haven't watched "Dawson's Creek", but I've heard that series has a lot in the way of implication of teenagers doing the horizontal bop.

It depends on the weakness/strength thing, what you can take, and what you cannot, in how mature you are, I guess. As said before, if it is something that you are afraid will form a temptation for you, don't watch it. If you can take away good things from the story and ignore the bad - know that implied scene is in there, even watch it, and know that it is not something that the Lord wants you to do yourself, that you know it is wrong and are not tempted to do anything like that, well, if the rest of the series has a lot of redeeming values, it shouldn't be a problem.

I understand how a scene like that can ruin things for you. I like "The Matrix". The second movie, "The Matrix Revolutions", just fell flat for me. Not only did I find a lot of the stuff in the plot cliche'd, there was this scene early in the movie that really put me off. I was annoyed for the rest of the movie after watching that scene. For those who have seen "The Matrix Revolutions", you probably know what I am talking about. The Zion dance party. (Not as innocent as it sounds). Neo and Trinity didn't put me off so much... I consider them "married", though it's not official. It's kind of hard to be official in their world. But... um... the rest of them...

I do wish that in TV, movies, anime, worldwide media in general, that there would be more depictions of the negative consequences of premarital sex. Like... I loved the movie "Saving Private Ryan" because it's depiction of war was very realistic. It was very graphic, but war is like that. War is not pretty at all, and should not be glorified. There needs to be more truth in entertainment/fiction regarding sex. I can tell you stories from when I was in high school of people I knew who had sex before they were ready... and had kids before they were ready, one of which is an extremely sad story.

I'm 24 years old and a virgin. I often feel weird because of this fact. I've never even really dated. I don't recall even kissing... I just haven't had romance be a big part of my life. I've kind of accepted that I am an odd duck, and that it's okay for me to be an odd duck regarding romance and sexuality. (NO, I'M NOT GAY!). I'm just... a happy "non-sexual". What is in popular media, and I am mainly talking about American stuff... makes me feel odd for this sometimes. It's just a message I do not listen to.

Postby **DanekJovax** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 5:20 pm

Well said! If only more of you were out there, we wouldn't have half of the trouble we have on viewing TV shows... ;2)