magic in anime

[WookieAre cool]

Hi yall, I was just wondering if yall feel it is ok to watch anime with magic in it. My dad is against magic entirely (I cant even play final fantasy ) and can show me many verses from the bible that provide him with why he is against shows with magic. And I am not completely in agreement with him in that area but i still stay away from it to obey him.

So, I was just wondering what your opinion in this matter is and also if any of you have ideas in opening my dad up a bit in the subject(I would greatly apreciate it).

[Mangafanatic]

This is a very sticky issue, and I'll be the first to admit that it's not a BLACK and WHITE issue. In the end, this call comes to the individual or his or her parents if tht is the case. Okay there's my view on this issue.

The Bible forbids us to practice sorcery, but I can't find reason to believe that this verse then condemns a book or game which contains magic. If the verses in the bible which condemned magic also condemned any book, movie, or game containing magic, then the bible would be self condemning. Afterall, Saul consulted a medium to call up a dead spirit. Within the Bible, there is magic.

Furthermore, I believe the mature of the magic in question is a major point in wether you should watch the game or not. Is the magic inchantational or invocational. Inchantational magic is the kind of magic in LOTR, the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, and many other very popular phantasy books. This kind of magic is when words produce a supernatural effect. (Similar to when God spoke creation into existance.) On the other hand, there's invocational magic, which involves the calling down of spirits. It is done entirely by the power of spirits. .(One classic example of the difference between the two is in Prince Caspian: Prince Caspian is trapped in a labirinth of caves and his opposing arm is bearing down upon them. Defeat seems inevitable. So what do they do? Bring forth the magic horn of Queen Susan. Well, they blow the horn and hunker down and wait for help. In the meantime, one doubting dwarf manages to round up a hag who is capable of calling up the spirit fo the white witch. Caspian is practicing inchantational magic and the hag is practicing invocational magic.) This magic I prefer to avoid, but I don't rule out that I'd ever read anything with hints of this magic. Wether I read it or not would be decided by my next magic criteria.

This next question I ask myself about magic in entertainment is-- how do the characters themselves and characters around them view the invocational magic. Do they see it as evil? Are there consequences for calling down spirits? Do the spirits aid the characters without extracting a penalty. If there are consquences and the magic is viewed as bad in the end-- then I would be much more inclined to enjoy that entertainment.

Well, there's my two bits on magic in the media. You can buy my book next summer . J/k

[WookieAre cool]

I'll be looking for that book Okay anyway, thanks for your post. Hmm.. some shows that have magic my dads main problems are if a main character or one of the good guys uses magic. I have bad memory but my dad had showed me a verse that spoke against magic. So my dad says that if the person is using magic then he is going against the bible there fore shouldn't be portrayed as a good guy. But if there is alot of magic in the movie (even is it is from the bad guy) or if is a dark movie then my dad still opposes it

Although I agree slightly with in those areas there are still some shows or games that I feel should be ok to watch/play. And then there a some I wouldn't even watch/play even if I could. For example i wouldnt watch shows with him ---> in it.

[Yojimbo]

Well let me ask you this. Judging by your name I'm assuming you like Star Wars. You dad doesn't have a problem with Star Wars does he? Couldn't the Force also be considered "magic." What's the difference really between casting a blizzard spell on someone or choking the life out of them with the Force? Luke calling out to Obi Wan's spirit how is this any different from any other kind of spirit conjuring? It's about context your dad is being selective in what he is choosing to consider as evil magic. This is just an idea to open your dad up to the subject like you said.

Game and movies with magic are just entertainment. Unless of course it's openly evil witchcraft stuff of cours... You accept Jesus in your life so I don't think it's gonna go inspire you to try and raise the dead or anything.

[Syreth]

This issue has actually seriously affected me in my life. To answer the question about whether watching shows or playing games with magic in them is right or wrong... well, I suppose it does depend on the context to some extent, but this has nothing to do with the media itself. It has to do with the individual. For instance, I have always played games and watched movies that had magic in them since I was about 10 years old. My parents and my older brother were concerned about this newfound interest in this type of media, but it was mostly an innocent interest at the time. A couple years later, however, these interests lead me into sin. I began to practice witchcraft and nearly fell completely from faith in the One True God. God is the convenant keeper, however, because he pulled me out of that dark pit and back into fellowship with Him through my family and my church, which I was forced to go to, thankfully! Also one of my friends that was into witchcraft got saved at my youth group out of the whole ordeal. So God took a terrible situation and worked it to His glory. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not bashing fictional media with magic in it. I still play the games and watch the cartoons and movies, but what makes the difference is understanding that these forms of media are FICTIONAL. The only way to do "magic" in real life is by the power of demons and it only comes at a price that isn't worth it to pay. If you have any questions about my testimony, I'd love to share them with you, just PM me. But as far as your father goes, I wouldn't take it too far with trying to change his mind. It might seem unfair that he's taking away some freedom, but abstaining from some shows or video games is a small price to pay for the PRIVELEGE of honoring your mother and father. God gave you your dad for a reason.

[Heart of Sword]

If it is ritual-ish magic, I'm against it.

Please don't flame me. *holds up flame-shield* I don't like Harry Potter because it's called "witchcraft" and there are some "rituals". If it's fantasy magic, such as that of Lord of the Rings, it doesn't bother me as much.

I look at things like this: if it sends a "negative" message to my brain, I don't like it. If it's a "positive" message, I will look further into it. Magic is in a lot of fantasy Anime and movies. But a lot of it is fictional. Witchcraft is real, magic is not. That's just how I look at it.

[samurai1986]

To me it only matters if it's openly evil magic. I'm a Harry Potter fan but the way I think of it is the kids are born with the power. They don't ask for it or get it through some ritual. They are also instructed in how to use it with out abusing it (although some don't pay attention). So in my mind it's a bit like a talent. If your born with it use it for good. Otherwise your like the servant in the Bible who buried the money instead of expanding it.

[Master Kenzo]

I don't have a problem with magic in games/anime, but I agree with what Syreth was saying...don't let it lead you into sin. If the magic entirely fictional, and it stays that way in your mind, then I believe it's fine to watch/play/etc.

As a side note, this thread had perfect timing...this has just begun to be a discussion between my parents and I (as in today)...so maybe there's a reason for this popping up.

[MasterDias]

I play a lot of console RPGs, almost all of which contain some form of magic, and I'm a fan of various anime/manga series that have "magic"-like attacks like chi or chakra.

So, here is my 2 cents...

First of all, such games and anime-manga don't necessarily take place in our world. Most are set in a different world with often vastly different physical and natural laws from ours...and an obviously different historical background.
There are some that are supposed to be set in our world (or at least, a fantasy version of our world) of course. Shaman King is an example of this. But even then, the physical and natural laws are usually quite different (shooting icycles from a snowboard is evidence of that) and are quite fantastical from real life.

That is basically the second point. Magic in RPGs and anime/manga is 99% of the time quite different from anything practiced in the real world. No one can shoot fireballs from their fingers in reality. Or conjure energy blasts or black holes or anything else from thin air. There is a reason it is called fantasy.

That basically sums up my point of view on the subject. It's all up to each person however.

[Heart of Sword]

Hmm...well I heard that there were rituals in Harry Potter (but not by the main "good" characters). However JK Rowling publicly denied God.

In most Anime, the makers didn't deny God. For example, I have never heard of Miyazaki or Takahashi denying the existence of God, but if someone does something like that publicly, I don't like it.




I agree with MasterDias.

[Raiden no Kishi]

I think it depends on the magic. "Magic" may mean many things. Someone from the Middle Ages, if they were to observe me posting here on CAA, would deem my laptop magic and proclaim me a sorcerer. And likely try to burn me at the stake.

But "mechanical" magic ala Final Fantasy, is really more like advanced science. There's nothing wrong with science.

Harry Potter's magick I am strongly against, as I have read of many striking similarities to "real" divination, witchcraft, etc. which are forbidden by God. But that's a discussion I do not care to engage in.

Rai

[termyt]

Mangafanatic and MasterDias already wrote well on this subject, so I have little to add. To sum up, I'd say that there are three things to consider. First is the wishes of your parents. We may not like what they say or the rules the put on us, but we must honor them.

But more to the point at hand, many Christian writings use magic. The difference is the world in which the magic is parcticed (or are we to say that the Chronicles of Narnia are heresy?). In a fantasy world, God can manifest himself differently than He does in our world - it's up to the creator of that fantasy world. "Magic" could be one way He manifests His power.

The third consideration then, if magic can be permissible in a fantasy world, is what is accomplished by the magic. Is it evil or does it have evil consequences? IF the magic (the good guys are using) is wholly derived from light/good (which is not possible in the real world), then it's OK in my book. However, magic that calls upon or is dervived from dark powers is always bad. Period. You can change the laws of physics and such in fantasy, but you can not change right and wrong. Linna Inverse's incantaitons seriously creep me out. If any of you have seen Slayers, I'm sure you'll agree.

[Bobtheduck]

You want my opinion on Magic in fantasy? A fantasy representation of Magic is innoccuous. However, your father is who you need to answer to. My opinion means nothing. I completely go with "Obey your parents"

I mean, I still have to obey them... They only, for instance, let me watch the Simpsons because I have watched it for so long and my nephew was into it... My mother hates the simpsons. Also, I only play Final Fantasy because she knows almost nothing about it... Anyone upset by Harry Potter would be much more upset by Final Fantasy. Much more violent, actual names of deities and spiritual figures of other religions (Hindu for example... I know at least Atma and Shiva, though Atma may not have been called that in the Japanese game, and Shiva in Hindu religion isn't a female and he has nothing to do with Ice and has more than two arms... Really, it's just a Engrish Pun...) and some "devil" like characters (Diablos, and, though he's shown to be some sort of dog or something in FFX, Ifrit.) In any case, it's a moot point... It's your parent's decission until you move out...

I'm a pot, you're a newbie so you may not know that not only is this issue not as black and white as you laid it out, it's not a good thing to argue about. You won't convince anyone (like me) who disagrees with you. Also, I'll add just based on my own feelings it's pretty bad to have your first two posts be a condemnation of us... You know, joining a forum is meant to be for community, not so you can correct our supposed wrongs.

[Mangafanatic]

Hmm...well I heard that there were rituals in Harry Potter (but not by the main "good" characters). However JK Rowling publicly denied God.

In most Anime, the makers didn't deny God. For example, I have never heard of Miyazaki or Takahashi denying the existence of God, but if someone does something like that publicly, I don't like it.




I agree with MasterDias.

Actuall, Miyizaki's an atheist and I read in a book about Harry Potter that Rowling is a professed presbyterian. But let's not turn this in a Harry Potter discussion. Let's try and keep this general or there's gonna be some serious flame throwing.

[Heart of Sword]

Now, now, this shouldn't be a Harry Potter flame fight, flame fights are deadly, let's all go get the fire extinguishers.

The thread's title is "magic in Anime", not "is Harry Potter evil". I don't believe that anything can be evil except Satan and sin. I do not believe that books, anime, manga, or movies can be "evil". Yes, I as an individual am against Harry Potter, but my opinion doesn't mean that everyone else should be against it as well. For example, some people hate Pokemon and think it's Satanic, I personally don't.

Miyazaki's shinto/buddhist and didn't go out into the public and say that God isn't real. Even my pagan aunt and uncle believe that God exists. Rowling has suppposedly denied God, but she may have just gotten cowardly and said that.

Let's all play nice now......

First, is the magic fantasy or real? Second, is the Anime/movie/book something that is based on real witchcraft such as divination? Third, how is the magic done--is it through spells, science, or fantasy methods?

Ask those questions and decide for yourself.


-------------

Rai, that was hilarious. Yes, back then, they probably would have thought that you're connecting with demons and spirits to get on the Internet.

[IZ&Trigun4life]

As said before in other posts i think you should be mature as Christian to view or play anything that has witchcraft in it. Also my mother has told me that watching tv shows or playing video games or reading books with satanic elements in it such as witchcraft can be a passage way for demons..they can actually come through all of those things, as it may sound silly for a demon to come through a tv screen...it could very well happen..satan uses anything he can to draw us away from the Lord.Trust your judgement as a Christian, and your parents judgement and youll be on the path of rightousness in no time ^-^

[Yojimbo]

(Hindu for example... I know at least Atma and Shiva, though Atma may not have been called that in the Japanese game, and Shiva in Hindu religion isn't a female and he has nothing to do with Ice and has more than two arms... Really, it's just a Engrish Pun...) and some "devil" like characters (Diablos, and, though he's shown to be some sort of dog or something in FFX, Ifrit.)

I don't remember Atma is any FF game? Are you thinking of Gilgamesh? And Shiva is a woman in the Hindu religion. Diablo is a seperate summon from Ifrit he only appeared in FF8. I'm just nitpicking I know.::grin:

[Syreth]

I think it's cool... most of you guys had very good things to say about the subject, but I have to echo the pleads to keep animosity to a minimum. I guess I just wanted to bring up the liberty that we have in Christ AND the responsibility that comes with it.

"Everything is permissible for me" - but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me" - but I will not be mastered by anything.
-1 Cor 6:12

Lots of people think Christianity is a very constricting way of life, but that isn't so. We only have to ask ourselves a couple of questions concerning these things: is what I am doing beneficial? is what I am doing constructive? Am I becoming mastered by anything?

Is watching an anime with magic in it a sin? In and of itself, I would have to say no. The Bible says nothing against such things. Is watching an anime with magic in it against the will of your parents a sin? The Bible says "yes." Is watching an anime with magic in it a sin if it leads you (or anyone else) into sin? You treading dangerous grounds here.

Well, anyhow, I guess that's it for my mini-sermon. I hope there wasn't too much heresy!

[Xavier249]

Mildly confused by thw whole thread. Whoa do you all have a lot to say...

I never really have given this a major thought as to the evils of magic. I would certainly never conciously "practice" it.

Video game magic (to me) is just a way for the games to juice up the battles a little and make them above the level of simple fist fights. It looks pretty, but that is all.

I don't know what to say concerning magic in anime. I have never thought of it as anything but cool. Occult related magic on the other hand puts me on guard immediately. Hmm. . . why I do not know for sure.

On the other hand, if you are younger than 18, please continue to obey your parents unless you can bring them around. "honor thy father and mother" after all, but don't if it will lead you to sin. . . . I don't think avoiding magic in stuffs is an evil.

[WookieAre cool]

I'm a pot, you're a newbie so you may not know that not only is this issue not as black and white as you laid it out, it's not a good thing to argue about. You won't convince anyone (like me) who disagrees with you. Also, I'll add just based on my own feelings it's pretty bad to have your first two posts be a condemnation of us... You know, joining a forum is meant to be for community, not so you can correct our supposed wrongs.

When I posted this I had no intention of it becoming an argument although I did say if yall could help me Perswaid my dad into opening up a little (I didn't mean I wanted to change his beliefs completely). And I am sorry if i some how angered you but I had no intention of this topic being a condemnation to any one. And (although I don't know how you think it is a condemnation to any one) I again apologize to you and anyone else who feels this way about it.

I myself feel that getting other peoples opinions on this subject is a big help to me. Because although I respect my dad I didn't quite see why this topic was such a big deal to him but now I can see other peoples reasons and it helps me understand better. And thank you everyone who posted in here and helping me out.

[Bobtheduck]

I don't remember Atma is any FF game? Are you thinking of Gilgamesh? And Shiva is a woman in the Hindu religion. Diablo is a seperate summon from Ifrit he only appeared in FF8. I'm just nitpicking I know.::grin:

Atma is in FF6 in Kefka's floating island (the one with the three goddesses)

Shiva is a woman? THe face in the pictures looks feminine, but the body looks masculine and I've always heard shiva called "he" Of course, there are more than one hindu gods with extra arms, but I could have sworn Shiva was a man... All of the primary, top tier deities were male, I thought.

Shiva (Sanskrit: Auspicious One), or Siva, is one of the main Deities of Hinduism, worshipped as the paramount lord by the Saivite sects of India. Shiva is one of the most complex gods of India, embodying seemingly contradictory qualities. He is the destroyer and the restorer, the great ascetic and the *snip*, the benevolent herdsman of souls and the wrathful avenger.

Yeah... He has a feminine face, but he's a male.

I never said that Diablos and Ifrit were the same. I said they were both "devil looking" summons, and Diablos is a direct refference to the devil, or at least Hell.

[Ashley]

How about we stick on topic and leave the gaming to the game forum? I'm not trying to be a Nazi here or anything, but we had a nice near-flame rabbit trail already.

[Xavier249]

hmm . . . I guess you are right. I was unaware we were off topic. . sorry.

hmm. I said occult magic made me worry. this meant anything invoking a demon, showing a pentagram, perverting a sacred relic(Cross, host, etc..) or the presence of a ouijii board.

Maho wa kowaii desu ne? Magic is scary, isn't it?

[jonman]

My mom is not against.she does not like it but i can watch it becouse i know the differnce between a cartoonand real life....final fantsay is a game and i can play but she does not like when thay kill somebody like she was in my room when some guy was stabbed lol well just let your dad watch a anime show and let him see if he wants u to be watching anime shows.

[PaladinBlue]

I guess I'll put my two cents in.

I really couldn't care less whether a certain anime contains magic. The way I see it, their magic is usually (not quite always) drawn from the character, and not from Satan (as real black magic is). I think it also depends on how it is used. For instance, in Magic Knight Rayearth, Hikaru, Umi, and Fuu are unable to use their magic when it is not necessary, otherwise, they will suffer for it. This is fine, especially since this kind is usually treated more scientifically than the other types.

Another kind of magic is the more occultist stuff, but even then, there tends to be key differences. For another Clamp example, in xxxHOLiC, Yuko tells fortunes and uses her own style of magic. Admittedly, what she uses could be argued as occultist, but the difference is that she makes sacrifices for her power and never uses it to harm another human (though she has no qualms against destroying computers). The magic in this manga is treated as more of a business contract. If it is broken by either party, there tend to be dire consequences, and there are quite a few good moral lessons contained within this premise. I don't see a problem with this either.

Then you have the real occultist stuff. This is wrong no matter how you look at it, but, thankfully, this stuff is few and far between in anime.

[Spazztik]

The thing about magic in anime and video games is that it is not real. And depending on how old you are you could be influenced and may think it is real. In my opinion if you know that it is fake and not to do things like witchcraft then there is really nothing wrong with it. But you always have to be careful, because everything that you see and hear can have an influence on you.

And remember obeying you parents is important and if it is a choice between going against your parents and watching anime or obeying. It is always good to obey. Remember that one day you will be an adult and be able to do your own thing and be responsible for your actions, and then if you choose to watch anime then do so.

[Tenshi no Ai]

Yeah magic in anime can be an iffy thing. I wodnered about it for myself, and decided to watch the series/play the game if it's good, because I will not be likely at all to actually perform the acts.

With Slayers, the magic in there is sort of creepy. As much as I like the series, the hypocricy is overwelming as Lina summons dark powers from a demon to defeat another one :/ I love the humour and stuff, but that seems to be my only turn-off from the series. I'll still watch it though with a serious face.

Regarding the bit on Harry Potter, and to the person mentioning the sold-out "become a witch kits" in ways, I can understand what's happening. Kids see magic as a way to become more powerful, and be able to do extrordinary things, both good and bad with it. I grew up watching tons of boy-action cartoons and always thought "Man, wouldn't it be cool to have super powers!" That might be how they see it too and maybe their parents think of it as a harmless show. Truth is, they don't really know what they're getting into when they start the practices. Magic, hocus pocus, all seemed cute and funny as a kid as most of us in schools thought it was just something interesting and unnatural. To actually BECOME a witch or whatever, can be a serious matter. Kids see it as the sterotype potions and broomsticks, but yeah I've typed for too long now :/ But kids do have an imagination and wish they would be stronger, just because everyone else is sort of thing. Example: how Spy Kids can win over adults sort of thing :/

My step-dad finds my Final Fantasy satanic and even found LotR Satanic with the demon in FotR. To watch something with a bad thing like that isn't much. I mean once again look at the Bible, which had tons of Satanic and demonic references in it, such as Satan himself. But yeah, to not have anything to do with these symbols is not to even read the Bible, or even watch the Passion for those reasons.

[Archan]

WAHhhhhhhh......

Why do all the good threads happen when I'm gone????

Anyways, I actually read close to everything this thread had in it, that took ALOT out of me. so excuse me if I seem a little absent minded.

Who originally posted this thread? WookieAre Cool right? Groovey, I'll address this post to you then.

First off, I commend you for posting such a thread, took alot of guts as you can see. I also commend you for being obedient to your father, I know it may not seem fair, but God will honour your obedience, you just wait

As for me personally, I sway from anything magical unless I see an absolute reason to do otherwise. I am not a fan of Harry Potter or Kiki's Delivery Service or other anime which uses magic in such heavy regard.

I am a fan of LOTR, Chronicles of Narnia, and other shows....

So how can this be? Well, in special cases like the LOTR, it was partially influenced by JRR T's good buddy, CS Lewis (Who was a Christian and heavily studied theology) whom you all know wrote the Chronicles of Narnia. So in a sense it can be said they kind of both, co-wrote the entire series (There's rings in Chronicles of Narnia as well.....how about that? )

As for magic in general, I'm against it completely. and the only exceptions I make for it are as follows, if it's refrenced to properly (historical documents, bio's, and the fact that it's evil {No, I don't believe there's such a thing as good magic or white magic}) or if it's made fun of. Like in a comedy, in which case the subject isn't even being take seriously, so it falls into a kind of genre as violence in the case of Tom and Jerry.

However if there is one person I'll quote from, it's gonna be Mangafanatic:

[color=Black]The Bible forbids us to practice sorcery, but I can't find reason to believe that this verse then condemns a book or game which contains magic. If the verses in the bible which condemned magic also condemned any book, movie, or game containing magic, then the bible would be self condemning. Afterall, Saul consulted a medium to call up a dead spirit. Within the Bible, there is magic

: This is very true to a sense, which is a point I've brought up a few other times wwwaaaaayyyyyyyy back when (In threads long lost and buried) so it's not so much an issue of what anime contains this type of subject matter, but how they use it. Is magic or witchraft or summoning spirits a good thing or a bad thing in the anime, thats the main point I use to judge if I should see certain anime or not. the second is if it's being taken seriously or not, in which case I'm the first to sit back and laugh along, it's very natural for me to make fun of the enemy. Mind you though, even in these cases I have my limits.

When it realllllly comes down to it though it's a large part of your own personal conviction, in which case any advise I can give is some of the best found in the Bible, pray about it

God Bless,
Archan


P.S. I hope you weren't diswaded from posting more threads like this in the future, that would be a great loss if you didn't.

[/color]

[Mangafanatic]

However if there is one person I'll quote from, it's gonna be Mangafanatic.

Oh. . . I feel special.

Oh, btw, I'd just like to commend everyone on the very tasteful handling of this hot topic. Despite the many varying opinions, we've remained very civil. So-- um, I'd just like to congratulate us all.

[Xavier249]

With Slayers, the magic in there is sort of creepy. As much as I like the series, the hypocricy is overwelming as Lina summons dark powers from a demon to defeat another one :/ I love the humour and stuff, but that seems to be my only turn-off from the series. I'll still watch it though with a serious face.

Umm, yeah. I agree with all that you said, but I thought of something odd. Could the "demon" have originall been youkai and therefore not dark powers and against dark powers, but rather dark powers against monster like demon thing(still can't find a good translation...)

oh and I think the most important thing to me that has been said is that the bible doesn't self condemn itself. Magic is in it but you are not practicing it.

Add one thing. Wiccan doesn't have any real occult powers. It is simply a made up religion by umm. . forgot the name sorry... who made it up for a play. Then it got accepted and altered by 4 different people along the way. Currently people practice the fourth form, of a made up religion. What I am getting at is, yes it is evil don't join it, but it has no real power. Yeah. . . umm.. . I will look up that name again soon....
(ps. I have friend who is wiccan.. . . and have no intention of being sucked in, but pray for me all the same...)