life changing things about holidays

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life changing things about holidays

Postby firefly » Fri Jun 06, 2003 2:07 am

i don't know if any of this is actually true im going to look into it but i thought i could tell you guys and hear what you think! well any ways i was reading a newspaper and it was from some church well anyways it talked about the truth about Easter it said that easter has nothing to do with Christ it has to do with a goddess named estera and the easter bunny use to be a chicken and he asked estera to make him into a bunny so she did. every april the easter bunny would come back to thank her for her kindness buy laying colorful eggs. and it celebrates the rebirth of estera and the rebirth of nature. easter dates back to before christ during the ancient egyptian times the papers said that since they already had estera to celerbrate instead of celebrating 2 hoildays they decided to combine Christ's ressurrection and estera and just call it easter.

the other thing i saw was about christmas i was watching this show called Amazing facts about the Bible the guy said that christmas has nothig to with the birth of Christ since Christ was not born in december this is a proven fact that he was'nt born then he was born between the end of summer and the begining of fall. They said the Bible mentions that the shepards were out in the feilds watch there flocks when the angel spoke to them telling about Jesus birth. They said that the sheperds wouldn't of had there flocks out grazing late at night because it would of been too cold. They gave some more facts of why his birthday couldn't of been in december but i don't remember them all. I do remember what they said that christmas was actually about it was the time of when the sun was out the longest and nights were at there shortest it lasted for a year and ended on decemeber 25 so every year they celebrate it. they decided they had to many holidays to celebrate so they decided it would be easier to celebrate that holiday with the Birth of Chist and call it christmas.

well i am very confused with this :dizzy: and my head really hurts :bang: so someone please tell me what your thoughts on this are.
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well...

Postby WhiteÃ…ngel » Fri Jun 06, 2003 5:37 am

in regards to easter... I haven't heard the whole bunny thing.. not sure about that, but all druid, etc holidays were covered by a good holiday so that no evil holiday stood alone that day of the year. this was the thought of the Christian church back in the day which is why some holidays like Christmas celebrate an event that happened on another date. besides .. in regard to Jesus.. we are not 100% on how old he was ( when really born?) which is why the month is also a guestimation.

now easter was celebrated by druids as a fertility ritual... they would kill a baby and drain it's blood ( dye) , then take an egg ( birth) and dip it in the blood, then do all sorts of gross sexual things to celebrate..

that is my understanding.. generally put...

please correct me if i'm off on anything guys.
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Postby Ashley » Fri Jun 06, 2003 6:33 am

From what I've studied in my Latin class, you're absolutely right; Easter and Christmas were originally pagan holidays, as well as "All Saints Day"---something that some churches celebrate the day after Halloween--and a bunch of Catholic holidays all have their roots in pagan holidays. The reason I was taught was because these holidays were very popular, and so the minority group--Christians--wanted to shift the focus of the pagan celebrations to one of their own, and thus drown out the pagan ones. It also made it easier for Romans and other "pagans" to convert over to Christianity because they had the same holiday schedule that they were used to. In fact, if you want to know, Christmas comes from a celebration called Saturnalia (celebration of Saturn; gift giving), Valentine's Day from Lupercalia (fertility celebration), and Easter is probably from Esterea like you mentioned before.
Woo wee, that Latin 3 class is finally paying off!
Heh, the only other semi-useful thing I know is how we named all the months...but that's rather boring. Anyway, hope this helped!

Oh, one last thing--pagan roots or no, I truly believe you shouldn't fret too much about the pagan traditions that overlap with our holidays. God designed it that way for whatever reason, and despite what it could have been a thousand years ago, Christmas is still Christmas today.
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Postby MasterDias » Fri Jun 06, 2003 3:08 pm

Thou art correct. When Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, the early Christians wanted to erase the pagan festivels. However, the celebrations were so firmly rooted in Roman life that it would probably cause an uproar of the Roman citizens. So they just decided to Christianize the holidays by giving them Christian meanings. It was pretty successful.
The only one that really reverted to anything close to it's original meaning was Halloween. Evidently the candy companies thought Halloween made them more money than All Saints Day would.
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Postby madphilb » Fri Jun 06, 2003 3:35 pm

To start with, I've skimmed/read and article that talks about Yeshua/Jesus' birth being durring the Jewish celebrations of Sukot (SP?). If anyone's interested I can try to track down a copy of the artcle (might be on my computer somewhere). Oh, and this would put his birth around September or so (I believe).

Christians and the holidays span a broad range of what people consider good to do and what isn't.

Personally most of the holidays are what you make of them. I personally stay away from Holloween myself, but sadly I can't say it's as much because it's one of the satanic high holy days... the holiday just doesn't have any sort of draw for me as it did when I was younger (and un-saved).

A friend of mine tends to send me everything she finds when she's working out an issue with God. Christmas was one of those times. It was an issue with her because she's been involved with Messanic Judism for years (I don't think the quite gets that we each have to work out and decide these things with God ourselves, but I appreciate the thought :grin: ).

It's good to look into these things though, to know where they came from, to make sure we don't go against God.

Oh, and on a lighter note.... years back the Baptist church I was attending did a sermon/teaching around Christmas time that talked about the nativity scene that most people display, how it differs from what it should look like (i.e. - Wise men wheren't there on the night of the birth, the "stable" would have been a cave (unless the above article is correct, then it would have been a wooden structure with palm leaves for a roof and fruit hanging down), the wise men didn't ride camels, they would have been on horses, etc.) I'm sure if you did a search or two you could find similar info on the web.

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Postby Ashley » Fri Jun 06, 2003 3:52 pm

actually, I saw a tv show a few years back about Christmas and how in reality, it's very likely Joseph took Mary to his family's houes in Bethlahem (i.e. his uncle/aunt/cousin perhaps), and the "stable" was either cave or the lower level of the house...not quite sure how accurate that was, but hey, it was a nifty show. Suprisingly, it didn't compromise any teaching, as most history shows tend to do.
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Postby inkhana » Fri Jun 06, 2003 5:58 pm

Well, the way I look at it...I agree with Ashley. If you are celebrating Christmas with Christ in your heart, then it doesn't matter that it just happens to fall on the same day as some pagan holiday...know what I mean? Even if it isn't on the right day...but who can ever be really sure what day it was on anyhow? Oh well, that's just the way I look at it.


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thanks

Postby firefly » Fri Jun 06, 2003 11:43 pm

thank you all you really helped me out!


thanks ashley what you said helps me alot i was just really worried that i might of been doing something bad my whole life and it scared me to think of what people were acutally celebrating and then things started poping into my head like should i keep celebrating this dose God want me too. i mean i really wanted to celebrate what i have been celebrating my whole life and thats Jesus birth and rebirth so then i started thinking i could celebrate Jesus birth and rebirth on the days that everyone else dose but not call it Easter and Christmas but well i have always in my heart have been celebrating birth and rebirth of Christ so i know thats enough so i just wanted to thank you for your help.

and PHIl i don't celebrate holloween ethier so your not alone ^_^
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Postby Ashley » Fri Jun 06, 2003 11:54 pm

You're quite welcome.
You know, it's not like any of this suprised God or anything; the Almighty didn't say "well, you weren't supposed to celebrate that holiday in December! Geez, what were you thinking! You've really messed up now..."
Of course not. He planned it this way for a reason, on top of engineering the social and psychological traditions all of us are instilled with. It's wonderful that you want to be aware of the truth, but rest assured, many Christians know this and are not at all condemned or thought badly about it either. Christmas would be Christmas whether it was in December or July; it's the celebration that counts, not what USED to be celebrated.

Glad to be of service--or as we in latin say, felixere esse servarum.
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Postby firefly » Sat Jun 07, 2003 12:00 am

yeah your right:thumb: God dose know eveything if he didn't want us celebrating christmas he would of warnd us not to celebrate it in the Bible. i just got a little worried about it but i'm okay now i have a clear vision to what i should do. thanks for your help again
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Postby ShiroiHikari » Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:18 am

I personally don't think God even regards months or days or any of that stuff we humans came up with. Time as it is for God and time as it is for us are two different things...doesn't it say somewhere that a thousand years for us is like a moment to God? Er, and if the Bible doesn't say that, who did...?

And I don't celebrate Halloween either. ^^

Yeah...all this Easter bunny stuff really makes me mad. >< I mean...hello...::smacks forehead::

Also, what about Santa and Rudolph and all that other "Christmas" stuff...does all that stuff ruffle anyone else's feathers a bit...? And what about secular Christmas songs? I mean...what kind of stuff is that? You kinda can't have Christmas without Christ. Oh, and there's this one song that says "...we all will be together / If the fates allow" ...THE FATES? In a supposed -Christmas- song?!?!

Anyway, so why do non-Christians even -celebrate- Christmas? Is it habit, tradition, what?

That's enough ranting for now. <_< ::zoom::
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Postby WhiteÃ…ngel » Sat Jun 07, 2003 12:03 pm

they celebrate the nonchristian aspects of those holidays...

just like we set up Christian holidays over druid ones, secular people today still celebrate santa clause and gift giving aspect and easter egg hunting and bunnies aspects of the holidays... no mention of rising from the dead or a birthday.... but notice the difference in the attitude of those that celebrate the holidays differently .. the secular people hate the holiday and they are greedy about what they should get on those holidays... we have an opportunity to praise God for those days and celebrate the great miracles of a God that came down to save us and then he dies for us to be able to be with him in heaven...

two totally different reasons and mindsets for the same day
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Postby firefly » Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:22 pm

http://www.klove.com/halloween_plain.asp

i found a website that tells you why you shouldn't celebrate halloween if wants to know the truth
if you want to see what halloween is about click above.
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Postby WhiteÃ…ngel » Sun Jun 08, 2003 6:35 am

I haven't researched it in depth, but I think it was originated by the druids who beleived that on that day their ancestors came to haunt them. They would dress up as someone or something else to hide from the ghosts who would try to hurt them. I don't celebrate anything that represents having to hide... I am a bold Christian who believes I have nothing to worry about any more then birds worry about where their next meal is coming from. I also just see it the same way as the other holidays.. it is just another greedy holiday to see how much candy you can get or steal from a friend and an excuse to act as evil as you can for a day.

that is why I neither or my family will celebrate it.
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Postby firefly » Mon Jun 09, 2003 6:07 am

i do agree with you on that one it is a pretty greedy hoilday thats one reason why i stop celebrating it kind of made every one around me act crazy and in competion with eachother i didn't like it that much. but i really stoped celebrating it because its a pure evil hoilday.
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Postby Stephen » Mon Jun 09, 2003 9:39 am

:rant: *flips switch*

First off....I think its kinda silly to lable a day evil...because of its origin. When I was growing up, I went trick-or-treating every halloween...heck did it till i was like 13....is it evil for kids to go around and bum candy off people? Will the devil suddenly have a better chance of stealing there soul? Always remember somthing...what one person is convicted of...not everyone is....If you can't dress up, and go around bumming for candy....great...if you can...and the Lord does not convict you of it...the last thing you want to hear is all your family in Christ spouting off about how evil the day is. I treat halloween like I treat a lot of things...mythology. If i go to a party and dress up....I don't plan on devil worshipping....its just a dress up thing....But, again, everyone feels differently about things.;)


Edit: One more thing I would like to add...I found this on Christianitytoday.com....great great article...that said what I was trying to say.



Home > Christianity Today Magazine

Christianity Today, October 2, 2000

Hallowing Halloween
Why Christians should embrace the "devilish" holiday with gusto—and laughter.

By Anderson M. Rearick III | posted 10/5/00
A few years back, our local Christian radio station ran a poll asking whether Halloween is spiritually harmful. The response from a predominantly evangelical audience here in Ohio was two-to-one against Halloween. This did not surprise me. It is now popular in some Christian circles to repudiate any celebration of All Hallows Eve—Halloween.

"We all know what day is coming," said a young woman in the choir of the Rhode Island church my wife and I attended when I was working on my doctorate. "And I think we need to be in prayer that the evil powers and principalities be held in check over this next weekend." Halloween fell on a Sunday that year, making the event seem all the more sinister. On the calendar of events for the Christian college where I teach, October 31 sits in a dark square with no acknowledgment that there is anything special about the date.

"It's Satan's Holiday, Dr. Rearick," affirmed one of my students. "Didn't you know?"

Well, no, I didn't know. And I am reluctant to give up what was one of the highlights of my childhood calendar to the Great Impostor and Chief of Liars for no reason except that some of his servants claim it as his.

Give up nothing
I have always considered Halloween a day to celebrate the imagination, to become for a short time something wonderful and strange, smelling of grease paint, to taste sweets that are permissible only once a year. How wonderful to be with other children dressed up as what they might grow up to be, what they wished they could be, or even what they secretly feared. All of us, dreams and nightmares, were brought together on equal footing, going from door to door to be given treats and admired for our creativity. How delightful to go to parties with doughnuts, apples, brown cider, and pumpkin cakes—and to hear spine-tingling ghost stories and feel our hearts skip a beat when the teller grabbed for us.

Now some are pressuring us to give this all up, and they use what is for some of us the most difficult argument to answer: it's the "Christian" thing to do.

Some Christians shun make-believe. Such believers feel that a young Christian's mind should never long to be in lands where little men have fuzzy feet, dragons breathe fire, and horses have wings. Instead, they maintain that a Christian should be caught up in the here and now of the "real" world. Defending the reality of fiction and the value of fantasy requires an entirely different essay.

Christians certainly may be leery of sharing anything with modern pagans and Satanists who claim Halloween as theirs. But who gave these individuals the right to claim the holiday? If they are Druids, they are celebrating Samhain, which is not Halloween but an even older holiday. As for Satanists, their calendar is a perversion of Christian seasons—there would be no Satanists if there were no Christians. Let them claim all they want. I give them nothing.

"But look at the roots of Halloween," some may say. "Don't you see how evil it once was?" I do, but the operative word in that sentence is was. Samhain was once a time of fear and dread, but at one time so was Yule or Midvinterblot, as it was called in Sweden. Toward the time of the winter solstice, the days became shorter and colder. The land was laid waste. In pagan times, to keep the fire of the life-giving sun alight, people often made sacrifices before a great oak tree. Boniface is supposed to have stopped one such sacrifice and instituted the indoor Christmas tree at the same time. The burning of such logs in the midst of sacrifice has come down to us as the traditions of burning Yule logs and enjoying Christmas trees.

I'm not suggesting fir trees and Yule logs be banned from Christmas; I'm only demonstrating what has happened time and again in history. For our pagan ancestors, the holidays that marked the great seasonal changes were often fearful, terrible, and dark. But with the coming of Christ came a great light that reclaimed not only individuals but also the holidays they celebrated. In the case of Midvinterblot and Yule, the holidays that once marked the terrible price required to provide light instead began to express the joyous arrival of God's true light.

Laughing away our fears and foes
What would a reclaimed Halloween express? In our culture, Halloween traditionally has allowed us to look at what frightens us—to experience it, to laugh at it, and to come through it. So at the end of October, we are visited by cute Caspers, laughing pumpkin heads, and goofy ghouls.

Should the forces of evil be mocked? Should Satan be laughed at? He most certainly should be. At the beginning of The Screwtape Letters, C. S. Lewis includes two telling quotations, the first from Martin Luther: "The best way to drive out the devil, if he will not yield to texts of Scripture, is to jeer and flout him, for he cannot bear scorn."

The second comes from Thomas More: "The devil … the proud spirit cannot endure to be mocked."

The one thing Satan cannot bear is to be a source of laughter. His pride is undermined by his own knowledge that his infernal rebellion against God is in reality an absurd farce. Hating laughter, he demands to be taken seriously. Indeed, I would say that those Christians who spend the night of October 31 filled with concern over what evils might be (and sometimes are) taking place are doing the very thing Lucifer wants them to do. By giving him this respect, such believers are giving his authority credence.

Not all believers should celebrate Halloween. For those who have been redeemed from the occult, Halloween in its foolishness may contain what was for them deadly seriousness. While their souls were in deadly peril, however, what they experienced were lies and illusions.

It is understandable that they look with horror upon what once enslaved them. Such sensitivity may be appropriate for them, but it is not appropriate for the majority of Christians. Holding their opinions as appropriate for most believers is like having a former bulimic dictate how Christians should regard church hot-plate socials.

Christians should instead celebrate Halloween with gusto. If we follow the traditional formula of having a good time at his expense, Satan flees.

In any event, I doubt the anti-Halloween party will prevail. This tactic was tried before—with Christmas. In the 17th century, because of its pagan ancestry and because it was a Roman Catholic holiday (Christ-mass!), many Protestants decided that true believers should not recognize Christmas. In 1620 our pilgrim forefathers purposely started unloading the Mayflower on Christmas Day to make the point to the crew that they were not going to observe such an evil day.

I'm glad those believers—however well-intended—failed. How bleak and desolate would a winter's December be without Christmas! We could have lost our chance to celebrate Christ's first coming and a chance to witness to the world, as I fear those pilgrims lost a chance to witness to those sailors.

If we give up All Hallows Eve, we lose the delight of God's gift of imagination and we condemn the rest of society to a darker Halloween because our laughter will not be there to make the devil run.

Anderson M. Rearick III is assistant professor of English at Mount Vernon Nazarene College in Ohio.
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Postby firefly » Mon Jun 09, 2003 9:50 am

i don't think its evil in the whole sense of people having fun taking people and dressing up at all and i don't look down on people who do celebrate it. what i'm saying is that i won't celebrate because when i do think about celebrateing it sended chills down my spin because alot of the decorations and things people do on those days really scare me like the whole lighting the candle and sticking it in a a scary jak o lantern so that your soul won't be dammed thats pretty freaky.
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Postby Stephen » Mon Jun 09, 2003 9:52 am

Some people like carving pumpkins...cause its fun. When I do it I know full well where my soul is going...lol my soul has nothing to do with weather or not I carve a pumpkin. ;)
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Postby Stephen » Mon Jun 09, 2003 9:57 am

For those that would like a Christian look at halloween...have a look at these 2 articles as well as the one I posted above...


http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/140/42.0.html


http://www.christianitytoday.com/tcw/9w5/9w5094.html
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Postby firefly » Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:14 am

I am a very gaulable person when someone tells me something it becomes true unless i know other wise and i do whatever my sis tells me to which because of that i end up getting electracuted all the time because i stick electracule things in my mouth when she tells me too. well anyways so when i heard about the truth and people started telling me not to celeberate these's hoilday i listen to them because i gaulable so i listen but i guess i needed to stop listening and listen to my heart instead of listening to other people. anyway you bring up a good point with that article which has given me a new perspective which will bring me to alot of thinking all day today.
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Postby Straylight » Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:33 am

I think it depends on your culture...

I tend to avoid Halloween. American culture is somewhat different to UK culture -- trick-or-treat in the UK will often involve kids running around the neighborhood causing as much trouble as they can. The police don't enjoy Halloween much... there are often reports of vandalism, assaults and the like.

The US version of halloween may be okay (in which case by all means celebrate it if it feels right), but the English version very often is not, which is a shame.
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Postby firefly » Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:39 am

the us version and your don't sound all that differen't in my neighberhood there has been times when people would TP and throw rocks eachothers house. This one guy told me that before i moved to my house that one holloween this guy got drunk and burned down a couple houses and they had to rebuild them.
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Postby madphilb » Mon Jun 09, 2003 1:21 pm

Originally posted by Shatterheart
Some Christians shun make-believe. Such believers feel that a young Christian's mind should never long to be in lands where little men have fuzzy feet, dragons breathe fire, and horses have wings. Instead, they maintain that a Christian should be caught up in the here and now of the "real" world. Defending the reality of fiction and the value of fantasy requires an entirely different essay.


An interesting aside on this.... I know several who are that way, yet still have their heads up in the clouds so-to-speak, more concerned over "spiritual" matters (some of which are very debatable).


Good find on that article... I may have to bookmark and save it for later.... maybe send it around to my "uptight" Christian friends :grin:

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Postby Ashley » Mon Jun 09, 2003 2:23 pm

I think Steve brings up a good point. Just like Christmas and Easter, what makes a day "good" or "evil" is--to quote from Charles Dickens- "how you keep it in your heart". I had really debated earlier today how to approach this topic, but then I was called off to work and I found Steve said everything that I was going to. ^^
Personally Halloween was never something my parents celebrated, and we [my sibs and I]were told as kids that it's because they didn't feel comfortable celebrating it because of the kind of witness it would be to our neighbors and friends. Right or wrong, that's how it was, but I certainly agree that it's all between you and God. What one Christian can tolerate another cannot, which brings me to my point:

One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man whose faith is weaker, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted them both.--Romans 14:2
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Postby WhiteÃ…ngel » Mon Jun 09, 2003 3:21 pm

My point is it serves no purpose that is worth it for me to celebrate.. Christmas. easter... given, Martin Luther king day.. still wondering about that one, veterans day ( not only appriciate what was done before me, but I am a vet, so memories of lost friends), etc .... but Hallowen ! what possible good is there in it. To me it is a doorway to other things.. we become complacent and start to accept useless holidays, etc and loose site of how we should be spending our time. like someone drinking a little too much with friends... next comes the joint getting passed around... etc, a chain reaction...

I simply have a very full life, so full luckily my worries are whether I can produce a piece of art or write another page.. I just don't have time to waste on worthless events regardless what they are.
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Postby inkhana » Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:55 pm

That's an excellent point to me, WhiteAngel. Now, I personally do not celebrate Halloween, but if other Christians feel comfortable with it, that's fine. I don't see much point in it myself; that's why I don't.


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Postby Stephen » Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:58 pm

Well, like I said everyone should go by how the Lord leads them...as far as spending our time...I don't "waste time" on Halloween...in fact, more then likely I will be working halloween night should it fall on a weekday....To acknowledge a holiday is diffrent then shunning it. *shrug* Couldent one say too much time on there computer is wasting time too?
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Postby firefly » Fri Jun 13, 2003 7:01 pm

well i was looking in the bible and found some intresting stuff that could help out some problems with what were talking about.

"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tardition and basic principles of this world rather then on christ."-colossians 2:8

so wouldn't Christmas, Easter, and Holloween be counted as tarditions of man.
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Postby inkhana » Fri Jun 13, 2003 7:43 pm

*ignorance alert!* Umm.....could someone tell me what "tardition" means? I assume it's not the same thing as "tradition"...I looked it up but Merriam Webster had no entry for it.


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Postby Stephen » Fri Jun 13, 2003 8:56 pm

traditions are not always bad things....I celebrate Christmas as Christs birth, Easter as his resurection...gotta be careful not to take scriptures out of context....I mean....couldent you say indoor plumbing is a tradition of man? I kinda like my ol toilet...sure beats a hole in the ground out back....:sweat:
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