So I just finished watching Trigun...

[Rashiir]

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

WARNING: SPOILER!!!

Was anyone else bewildered by the ending? I was like "Bao...?" I mean, why wouldn't Knives keep doing what he was doing before they fought once he woke up from consciousness?

[Ashley]

Yeah, it left me hanging too...I was like,
"That's it? That's the end of this climatic battle? How lame!"
It's like they tied up all the other loose ends (cough legato cough gungho guns cough) but left this one to dangle. I was dissappointed, but who knows? Perhaps Maximum will have a better one.

[Rashiir]

Maximum?

[BrianC]

Trigun Maximum is the name of the second Trigun manga series in Japan. I heard it's very different from the anime.

[Ashley]

Yeah, but my hope is that it will be like the bebop manga, and be sort of the same, but with an alternate ending. I.e. same characters and all, but different storyline.

[BrianC]

Yeah, but my hope is that it will be like the bebop manga, and be sort of the same, but with an alternate ending. I.e. same characters and all, but different storyline.

Yeah, that was my bad. I looked at the post more closely and realized what you meant. Considering how different I heard that Trigun Maximum is from the original and how much longer the manga is running compared to the anime, I would be surprised if the ending wasn't different. I hope Wolfwood will be alive at the end.

[Ashley]

Actually [spoiler="concerning wolfwood in maximum"] I heard he does survive, which is good! [/spoiler]

[MillyFan]

Actually [spoiler="concerning wolfwood in maximum"] I heard he does survive, which is good! [/spoiler]

The manga and anime are different universes, or so I've heard.

As for a continuation on the anime set in the "animeverse," that looks sadly like it will never be done. . .^sigh^ although I personally think a continuation would be good LOL. I mean, that was a rather weak ending, even if you happened to see the full ending (which those of us who watched on CN didn't even get to see because they deleted the ending credits depicting the very last scenes from episode 26 )

So far, though, it looks as if animeverse continuation is left to fanfiction writers. . .none of us can do that well for it though, LOL.

[Spiritsword]

SPOILERS IN HERE TOO!

Hmmm...not to be controversial, but I didn't think the ending was that bad. Of course, I have the original rather than the CN version, if that makes a difference (I haven't seen the CN version).

I think the main themes were accomplished by the ending without being overly cheesy or direct. Knives' salvation was implied rather than blatant, but Vash somehow managed to bring his brother back without killing him. I'm trying to think of how else they could've resolved the conflict, and personally I prefer the ending given to either one dying or Knives suddenly bringing out a box of donuts and giving everyone a group hug. But I suppose maybe there's an alternate ending somewhere between those extremes that would be acceptable...

[Razgriz]

I have to agree, I like the ending the way it is. Most anime is all about drawing your own conclusions, and that makes the characters as much "yours" as it is the people who created the anime.

Though having Maximum translated to an anime won't be half bad either...

[MillyFan]

Actually, Spiritsword, there's kind of a debate on whether Knives died or not. I'd say opinion is split 50/50 from an informal survey of stories and theories behind them on fanfiction.net.

As for me, I don't *know* one way or the other LOL. Both sides have good arguments IMHO so I'm officially undecided and write fanfics with all possible scenarios. . .hehehehehe

[inkhana]

That's odd, I got the impression that Knives lived. In the way I had it figured (which could certainly be wrong) if he died, he died later on.

[Spiritsword]

Hmm, interesting, MillyFan. Like ink, I was always under the impression that Knives lived. So now I had to go back and watch the ending again.

I'm sure there's evidence the other way, but I guess what led me to believe that Knives lived was:
Vash didn't shoot him in vital areas, he shot him in areas that would render him unable to move well.
Vash bandaged him up and carried him back. You might carry back someone dead to bury them, but why would you neatly bandage up a dead person's wounds?
Vash's ethics and beliefs. He wouldn't kill if there was any way around it. He has that eternal hope that he can save others.
It fits a couple of the main themes of Trigun (in my opinion): those of salvation and redemption.

But that's just my opinion. It's interesting that a lot of people think he died. But again, the ending is good because it leaves us to draw our own conclusions, as Sangoku said.

Spiritsword

[MillyFan]

All right, debate time then: I just watched episode 26 for the second time (although on CN and it was still edited for time with the ending credits scene dropped. . . )

I think that Vash killed Knives because:

In the final scene after Knives was being bandaged, his eyes fluttered open once more, and the scene before it cut to the well was of Vash pointing his gun once more. That could have been the fatal shot implied.

Vash left behind his guns, some body armor, Wolfwood's weapon, and his coat. If Knives were still alive, that would have been suicide to remain unarmed and defenseless.

Knives appeared to be still and not breathing until the temporary awakening I mentioned in my first reason.

In the end, as he carried Knives into the desert (the CN version) or the town (the DVD) Vash stated that he was no longer going to live by Rem's words, but his own.

I rest my case-Knives was dead at the end of Trigun.

[Spiritsword]

Hmmm...interesting points. I don't want to get embroiled in a major debate here, but I will respond to a couple of your points, Millyfan. Remember, these are just my own opinions.

When Vash points his gun at the end, I think that is where we have to interpret what he ends up doing based on Vash himself. In other words, that's "decision time" for Vash. Based on what I know of him from the series, I think Vash would rather risk himself again (even though Knives was pretty well incapacitated) than kill his brother as he lays there barely holding on.

If you take Vash's words regarding living by his own words and not Rem's to mean he would kill if necessary, why would he leave his weapons behind? I think what Vash meant was that he was just going to start finding his own path in life rather than basing his life on a memory.

Knives was pretty badly hurt (shot several times). I don't think he would be much danger to a relatively healthy Vash (healthier than Knives anyway). Knives wasn't just taking a little nap, he was near-death unconscious. His breathing would be shallow and not necessarily obvious or even shown in the anime.

And here's a point you didn't get to see in the CN version if it didn't show the ending credits. Vash was wearing a big grin as he walked back into town. If he had had to kill his brother, even out of necessity, I doubt he would've been in the cheeriest of moods.

I think there is some imagery as well that suggests Knives lives, but I won't go into detail on that here.

It seems like a lot of what one believes about the end of Trigun is based on their own perceptions of Vash's motives and development as a character. As stated before, I like it that way because we can each take what we want from a very worthwhile series.

Spiritsword

[Technomancer]

It's been a few years since I've seen the series, but I'd always taken the ending to mean that Vash didn't kill Knives. Aside from the reasons already mentioned above, at the end when Knives is unconcious, Vash says "I'm going to save everybody", as if making a vow. This recalls the scene from his childhood regarding the spider and the butterfly. Vash explicitly rejects the idea that he has to end some lives in order to save others, or at least that's what I took his meaning to be.

[MillyFan]

Were you watching the sub or the dub? All I've seen so far is the dub. ^sigh^

[Technomancer]

subtitled.

[MillyFan]

Speaking of the final episode, am I crazy for spotting yin-yang symbolism in the exchange of Angel Arm Fire?

Knives has a black gun which fires a white shot. Vash has a white gun that fires a black shot. And during the second volley, the two weapons create a curious blending of black and white energy in a wavy pattern. Vash said "It's using these weapons this way that gives them any signifigance at all." In other words, he meant that he'd only one Angel Arm to prevent another from destroying the world. In the same way, the yin and the yang counteract each other in the whole pan-Oriental sense of harmony that permeates throughout so many aspects of Japanese culture.

Yes, I am crazy.

So I'm not the only one who noticed that. No, you're not crazy. -^.^-

[MillyFan]

Woooooowww. . .That, friend, was a great post. In fact, it was one of the more intelligent posts I've seen in a while (considering I've just been at otakuboards.com's Anime Lounge where the main discussion revolves around either spammy posts or people attempting the weak allegory that someone posted here a while back, you remember it ~.^)

Anyway, let me say it again, GREAT post. -^.^-

By the way, sorry I dropped you from AIM earlier tonight. I've been having a bunch of computer problems here, and my dialup connection just froze and wouldn't come back . Now that my sister's going back to college, I should be online a little more, so we can talk anytime. -^.^-