The Grand Search for the Best Anime of the 2000s

[Zeldafan2]

Baccano! - While I adore the FMA manga, the first section of Brotherhood is rushed. Overall, I think B! is better-paced.

Have to agree with you on the first part of Brotherhood being rushed, but because I haven't seen Baccano!, I'm voting for FMA Brotherhood.

[SilverToast]

It was hard to decide but I vote for Baccano! . In my opinion they are both evenly matched but I just had to go with my gut feeling on Baccano!.

[mechana2015]

Baccano. I agree with Atria. Making people buy two series to get the full story unsummarized is no bueno.

[GeneD]

Baccano!: These are both fantastic shows and I would say equal in terms of quality in a lot of aspects. Unfortunately FMA: B has that rushed beginning and while I can understand why they did it, it's too big a flaw to ignore at this point in the contest. The adaptation of the source material for Baccano is handled better. I've read 2 of the 3 light novels that were covered in the anime and I must say the way they skipped between and blended the story/time lines was pure genius.

[eightluvver888]

I'm going to randomly pop in and say Baccano!

[skreyola]

I'm going to say FMA:B for two reasons. I don't really know either of them, so they may not be good reasons, but I can't not vote in the finals.
First, at this point, it's the underdog.
Second, while it beat out Melancholy, which I liked, The other one beat out two I liked: Eureka and Birdy.
So, there's my vote.

[AnimeGirl]

FMA:B gets my vote!

Superior toward the original series (well, once we hit part 2, as the rehash cannot live up to how the original beautifully expanded it), FMA:B is full of humor, action, depth, loveable characters, and emotion. When the creators wanted you shocked, you were shocked. When they wanted you to cry, you cried. When you were suppose to laugh...right on que. When you were suppose to be touched deeply, even ponder on something, this show provided you those thoughts. Yes, this series is a masterpiece among all things anime (the manga as well).

[spoiler]AND THE ENDING WAS VERY SATISFYING!!!![/spoiler]

[Atria35]

FMA:B gets my vote!

Superior toward the original series (well, once we hit part 2, as the rehash cannot live up to how the original beautifully expanded it), FMA:B is full of humor, action, depth, loveable characters, and emotion. When the creators wanted you shocked, you were shocked. When they wanted you to cry, you cried. When you were suppose to laugh...right on que. When you were suppose to be touched deeply, even ponder on something, this show provided you those thoughts. Yes, this series is a masterpiece among all things anime (the manga as well).

[spoiler]AND THE ENDING WAS VERY SATISFYING!!!![/spoiler]

^ It helps that you haven't seen the masterpiece of Baccano! as well, so there is some definite bias in this post Remember, it's not about whether it's better than the original series, it's about whether it's better than the one it's up against!

[ClosetOtaku]

Unlike the previous competition, I don't have to analyze this one much. FMA:B just isn't my cup of tea. Fair or not, I've begun to think of it in light of other series that are just tiring to watch (Naruto, Bleach, etc.). When I begin to think, "Well, it isn't as bad as the Ruroni Kenshin TV series," I know it has become a bottom-dweller in my hierarchy. The original was better, with a less contrived ending (yes, many people didn't like it. I'm not one of them.)

So, then, Baccano! it is. A gangster series with quite a twist, well-told, entertaining, non-linear. Funny in parts; gruesome in parts. Well-animated, frenetic, good music, somewhat reminiscent of Cowboy Bebop with its ensemble cast (though admittedly a much larger one). The opening sequence is among the best in anime.

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

Baccano! wins for because considering its cast/episode count ratio it still has my favorite cast in all of anime.

[KnightOfFive]

^ It helps that you haven't seen the masterpiece of Baccano! as well, so there is some definite bias in this post Remember, it's not about whether it's better than the original series, it's about whether it's better than the one it's up against!

I see some definite bias in this post as well. Seems to be going around.

[Atria35]

[quote="KnightOfFive (post: 1594709)"]I see some definite bias in this post as well. Seems to be going around. ]

Um, bias against what? It's okay to vote for FMA:B if it's the only one out of both you've seen (goodness knows I've voted like that), but in the end it's about FMA: B and Baccano!, not FMA: B and the original.

[Vii]

FMA:B. I like the manga best, aaaaaand I haven't seen Baccano, but I'll vote for it since it's a personal favorite of mine, and it's all-around an excellent show.

[Maokun]

Both are excellent series so I'm going to go with the one I believe has the capacity to better affect one personally.

As great as Baccano! is, it is ultimately an amoral tale (note that I'm not implying that's bad per-se): With a cast of ruffians, thieves, psychopaths, sadists, arsonists, assassins, cheaters and madmen/women that take turns to be each other's monsters Baccano! surprisingly manages to makes us care for its many protagonists and be touched when a turn of events briefly brings to the surface their humanity or arguable virtues. But in the end, there's nothing left in your heart; it was just a very entertaining and cleverly-told ultra-violent thriller.

Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood on the other hand may lack the clever twists and the storytelling itself may be ridden with pacing problems but I believe it is one of the best modern takes in the time-honoured tradition of good-vs-evil stories. It's main triumph is that the good guys win (oops spoiler) not solely on the strength of their power, but almost in spite of it: It is raw courage, loyalty, friendship, trust and willingness to sacrifice everything which saves the day and that's a message that you can apply to your own life even if you cannot toy with the very fabric of reality like some of those characters.

Speaking of characters, that's FMA:B's other main strength: With a cast as diverse as Baccano!'s we get to see as many different personal takes on "goodness" and "justice" as the Flying Pussyfoot's passengers have different takes on evil and selfishness -and the villains are superbly fleshed out as well. (And in the same way that Baccano!'s antiheroes some times let us see their humanity and compassion, FMA:B's heroes sometimes let us see some of the ugliness in their hearts.) As such, we get to see the good characters clash among themselves as much or more than against the villains, but slowly, their characters grow, their understanding expands, and as the stakes raise they manage to become of one purpose without losing their unique approach.

The ending monologue defines it quite well: it was not about stopping the bad guys, nor saving the world. It all was about the personal growth obtained from such conflict (and not in spite of it, as we would like to believe when we are coddled in comforts) and the kind of person you become afterwards... Sou, hagane no youna kokoro wo

[goldenspines]

I find it an unfortunate circumstance when people have not seen Baccano!. Thus, to fulfill my moral duty, I will generously offer those who have not seen Baccano! a look at the brilliant opening to the show that stole my heart. <3

Baccano! Opening




Er, not voting, but yes. >_>;

EDIT: I was somehow snipe posted by Mao. O:

[Maokun]

Ah yeah, that Baccano! OP is awesome <3

[blkmage]

I just noticed something. Why are ties resolved by waiting for another person to vote (more like not resolved)?

never mind I just went back and read what you actually said, can't say I agree with leaving the vote open like that though

[Maokun]

Oh? Not sure why it is a bad thing... That day rather few of the frequent voters had voted so I was just giving a chance to anyone who couldn't make it the day before. I much rather leave the decision to a real person than to factors extraneous to the duel in question (such as points acquired in past rounds.)

[airichan623]

Well this is tough... but as someone who has seen both, I'm voting for FMA: Brotherhood, for really the same reasons as Mao. They are about equal in my book, but the morality of FMAB pushes it to the top.

[GeneD]

[quote="Maokun (post: 1594748)"]But in the end, there's nothing left in my heart]Fixed that for you. The way you had it makes it an untrue generalisation. There certainly was a lot left in my heart at the end of Baccano. In fact the only reason there might have been "nothing left in my heart" is because it had exploded from all the awesome. Just saying.

Good, thoughtfull post on the strengths of Brotherhood though.

[Maokun]

Fixed that for you. The way you had it makes it an untrue generalisation. There certainly was a lot left in my heart at the end of Baccano. In fact the only reason there might have been "nothing left in my heart" is because it had exploded from all the awesome. Just saying.

Good, thoughtfull post on the strengths of Brotherhood though.

I'd argue that from the point of view I was approaching the matter (ethics, morals, values, etc.) what was affected was your head not your heart. However, you are totally right that one should avoid such generalizations. I'll acknowledge it here and leave it as it is in the original post not to void your correction.

[blkmage]

Oh? Not sure why it is a bad thing... That day rather few of the frequent voters had voted so I was just giving a chance to anyone who couldn't make it the day before. I much rather leave the decision to a real person than to factors extraneous to the duel in question (such as points acquired in past rounds.)

Because it's arbitrary and inconsistent. If you set a process in place that says ties are broken by past performance, then I expect that process to be honoured. Allowing another vote or two in after votes technically close harms the integrity of that process. It's not only unfair to those who already voted, but also to everyone who voted in those past rounds.

If you don't want ties to be broken by past performance, make that explicit from the start. If you do, stick to it. Don't do this creating exceptions at the last minute thing because it undermines the expectations that your rules create in the first place. And if you must extend voting, do it by 12-24 hours.

[mechana2015]

It also essentially gives one peroson who realizes a tie is in place the power to call a match based entirely on their opinion.

[Maokun]

It also essentially gives one peroson who realizes a tie is in place the power to call a match based entirely on their opinion.

Actually, I was expecting that to be blkmage's reason and I was prepared to refute that that's basically what happens with each vote (i.e. that person has the "power" to change the previously laid outcome with his/her vote) since they are always public. Moreover, if a person sees a tie and chooses to vote for X series knowing that would be a definite vote... doesn't that mean that he or she's consciously voting for the series he or she really wants to advance, i.e. it is a genuine vote?

Nevertheless, blkmage's point about internal consistency and integrity does stand. I will take it in account for future happenings.

[GeneD]

I'd argue that from the point of view I was approaching the matter (ethics, morals, values, etc.) what was affected was your head not your heart.

Mmmm see that assumes that everyone has the same ethics, morals and values or that those are what they look for in entertainment. Let me use an example (sort of spoilers for those who haven't seen Baccano). [spoiler]One of my favourite characters is Rail Tracer/Claire Stanfield. And I'm not talking just Baccano characters, I'm talking favourite period. He's charismatic, has an interesting world view and a twisted sense of honour. He's also a psychopathic mass murderer with sadistic tendencies (euphemism much?) and prone to extreme violence. Logically there should be no way I should like him. But I do anyway because he invokes positive emotions in me. I cheer when he does something cool, I'm happy when he beats an opponent or makes it out alive. In my experience that's heart rational not head rational.[/spoiler]On a more general note, while I do believe than quality can be judged objectively, I don't like to put much stock into it when it comes to entertainment. Something can be objectively very good, but if for some reason I didn't enjoy it, what's the point? I'd be wasting my time, and doing that on entertainment is just silly. It also means that other people might be dictating what I should enjoy and not what I do enjoy, which is also silly. Bonus of course if I like something and it's objectively of good quality, but we can't always get what we want. So a little off topic but that's just my two cents about heart vs. head. Smiley face for friendly discussion.

[Neane]

[quote="ClosetOtaku (post: 1594520)"]There may be spoilers in this post. Don't read if you haven't seen Madoka Magica.

I don't have a degree in Philosophy, so I'm on shaky ground, but I'll take up the argument in favor of deconstruction.

Deconstructionism challenges (usually widely-held) beliefs about the underpinnings of the way things 'work'. It aims to criticize our assumptions about the stability of our worldview, or the set of heuristics we apply when we observe or act.

I did not watch all of Sailor Moon. In fact, I've probably seen no more than ten percent of the episodes, if that much. I was mostly a casual observer to my daughter's temporary obsession with the series. And so I did not delve into the deeper aspects of what went on.

Likewise, I've seen other episodes of Magical Girl series (Cardcaptor Sakura, for example). I'm not an expert in the genre, but I can spot them two out of three times.

In a lot of cases, no one seems to question where these powers Magical Girls have 'come from'. The magic is mediated by a crystal or totem, or maybe the mahou shoujou just simply has magical powers, and that's that. No further explanations are entertained, or if they are, there don't seem to be any real far-reaching consequences.

In Madoka, the origin of the powers is clearly Kyubey and his alien brethren. Kyubey's lecture on Thermodynamics was not just some flimsy cover of an excuse (though its execution could have been better). Magic doesn't just 'happen']


- You say the magical powers in it have an origin. I don’t see why that is any different from other mahou shows. It still is magic in people or objects.




- Then you say it has consequences. Sorry, but there is no such thing if eventually everything can be undone as easily as it is done, as proven by the ending.

- And most mahou shows eventually mention how being a magical girl means you can never have a truly normal life. It is subtle in most but it’s there. Again, Madoka took this element and raised it by the 11.



Anyway, for this round I am voting for Baccano! because "it is ultimately an amoral tale".

[Zeldafan2]

Um, bias against what? It's okay to vote for FMA:B if it's the only one out of both you've seen (goodness knows I've voted like that), but in the end it's about FMA: B and Baccano!, not FMA: B and the original.

I think she was just pointing out it was better than the first series because she probably thought highly of the first series as well. So, therefore, since she thought highly of the first series, saying that FMA: B is better than FMA original in her opinon gives it higher standards in her opinon of which of these anime is better. And, while I'm not sure if she's watched Bacanno! or not (I certainly haven't), I wouldn't disregard it as just bias.

[KnightOfFive]

Precisely. Also it may seem all welll and good to write off someone's vote as biassed but I myself have yet to see an unbiased opinion, especailly in matters of taste.

[Atria35]

I think she was just pointing out it was better than the first series because she probably thought highly of the first series as well. So, therefore, since she thought highly of the first series, saying that FMA: B is better than FMA original in her opinon gives it higher standards in her opinon of which of these anime is better. And, while I'm not sure if she's watched Bacanno! or not (I certainly haven't), I wouldn't disregard it as just bias.

On second reading, you're right. Since I didn't see the title of it's opponent anywhere, I did jump to the conclusion that there wasn't any consideration for what series Brotherhood was up against. Even if that meant just saying "I haven't seen Baccano!, but this is how great I think FMA:B is".

Precisely. Also it may seem all welll and good to write off someone's vote as biassed but I myself have yet to see an unbiased opinion, especailly in matters of taste.

'Bias' was definitely the wrong word. See response above.

[Maokun]

It was a super-close match, but we have a winner!

Baccano! 8
Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood 7

And so, there's nothing left but decide which of these titles will take the title of Best Anime of the 2000s (so far):

[SIZE="6"][color="Magenta"]Puella Magi Madoka☆Magica[/color][/SIZE]

TV series, 12 episodes
Aired: Winter 2011 to Summer 2011
Director: Akiyuki Shinbo
Studio: Shaft
Defeated: Ouran High School Host Club, Haibane Renmei, Macross Frontier, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Paprika, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time


[SIZE="4"]VS[/SIZE]


[SIZE="6"][color="YellowGreen"]Baccano![/color][/SIZE]

TV series, 13 episodes
Aired: Summer 2007 to Autumn 2007
Director: Takahiro Omori
Studio: Brains Base
Defeated: Eureka7, Princess Tutu, Birdy the Mighty: Decode, Summer Wars, Durarara!!, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood

Voting will be open until Sunday at 21:00 EST. Thanks everyone for participating!