fansubs illegal?

Postby **Nia-chan** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 6:21 pm

Are fansubs really illegal? My dad downloads them and they all say "not for sale or rent" and stuff like that. I also heard that it's only illegal if you can buy them.

Postby **Straylight** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:04 pm

They are illegal.

However I seriously doubt the companies that produce and distribute anime have a problem with fansubs, because they help to promote the anime before it comes out officially in Western countries.

Postby **Nia-chan** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:12 pm

Ok, thanks. One more thing, can you tell me what makes them illegal? I'm not trying to be difficult, but if the companies don't mind and it says "this is a free fansub" then what makes them bad?

Postby **shooraijin** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:11 pm

Mostly because the audio/video stream itself is copyrighted, and the fansub must necessarily include them (and almost always does so without the permission of the copyright holder, although I have heard of [infrequently] some fansubs that were later given the blessing of the licensee -- not sure which, if this is even true).

Anyway, at best, it occupies a grey area.

However, if the company *does* permit the fansub, then it becomes legal, as you say. The problem is that most don't have this permission (often the American licensee hasn't received the right to grant it to them, even if they wanted to, however, so this isn't always the local distributor's fault).

Postby **Psycho Ann** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:13 am

You know, with this sudden increase in debate about the legal issues in fansubs.... I'm wondering if God's trying to tell me something.... ^^;;;;

Postby **Kenchii** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 8:58 am

FANSUBS ARE NOT ILLEGAL.

Let me explain. Many people try to suppost fansubs, (like me). Because the main reason they have them on the internet is for viewiers/anime lovers to get that fansub licenced in the USA.

There are licenced & unlicenced fansubs. Licenecd fansubs are illegal. Because they all ready came to USA shores and have a licenced. So you can't download thos anime. (ex: cant download Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Lupin). BUT, BUT, if you download UNlicened anime series which are SUBBED. (thats why its like fanSUBS... :stressed:

) That is not illegal. New anime shows from Japan. If you are trying to download lets say, Love Hina, you are considered a pirate.

Postby **shooraijin** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 9:56 am

Explain further, because as far as I was aware, the issue was getting permission from the copyright holder (which even the "unlicensed fansubs" you refer to don't necessarily have).

Postby **HeavensTek** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:03 am

you know....it always cracks me up when people on anime forums get rightious about copyrights and piracy and all that.....

hehe.....cause i'm pretty sure that ya'll didn't get permission to use that liscensed and copyrighted artwork for your avatars and sigs....... :rolls_eye

(edit:i apparently can't spell)

Postby **Kirika** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:10 am

HeavensTek wrote:you know....it always cracks me up when people on anime forums get rightious about copyrights and piracy and all that.....

hehe.....cause i'm pretty sure that ya'll didn't get permission to use that liscensed and copyrighted artwork for your avatars and sigs....... :rolls_eye

(edit:i apparently can't spell)

hehe...Haven't thought of that.
Anyway, even though they are illegal or not, I support fansubs all the way and I don't think I'm gonna ruin someone if I download few episodes... They're probably all swimming in a pool filled with cash right now (like Picsou :grin:

)

Postby **HeavensTek** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:16 am

thats the thing.....fansubs are making them money.

if it wasn't for fansubs there wouldn't be an anime market outside of japan.....

fansubs = free promotion to millions of western viewers

they know that. we know that. it shouldn't be an issue.

Postby **Technomancer** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:23 am

Kenchii is correct.

If a series has been licensed for distribution in a country, fansubs are illegal. This means that the distribution company has acquired the rights to that series in that country. If the series is not licensed then there is no copyright holder for that country (copyrights, like patents, are country specific).

Postby **Kenchii** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:34 pm

HeavensTek wrote:hehe.....cause i'm pretty sure that ya'll didn't get permission to use that liscensed and copyrighted artwork for your avatars and sigs....... :rolls_eye

(edit:i apparently can't spell)

Sue me

Postby **HeavensTek** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 7:22 pm

i'm not one to talk btw......i was just making a lil' observation for all those who wanna yell about the evil's of fansubbing

Postby **Kenchii** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 7:26 pm

HeavensTek wrote::grin:

i'm not one to talk btw......i was just making a lil' observation for all those who wanna yell about the evil's of fansubbing

Postby **Christianotaku** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 7:21 am

I DOWNLOAD LICENSED FANSUBS SO KILL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ I dont live in the USA]

Postby **shooraijin** » Sun Aug 03, 2003 5:23 pm

> If the series is not licensed then there is no copyright holder for that country (copyrights, like patents, are country specific).

But what about the Berne Convention? The whole point of that was to make copyrights international to *prevent* loss of intellectual property in other countries.

Mind you, I don't really care whether fansubs are illegal or not or who downloads them or not, but people should be informed about the ramifications of their actions, of course.

Postby **Technomancer** » Sun Aug 03, 2003 6:13 pm

After some checking, and reading the relevant parts of the Berne convention, it seems you're right. Unlicensed fansubs are illegal. However, this depends on the production company choosing to enforce its rights (it can be assumed that a licensed North American distributor will). Historically, things like fansubs were tolerated because they amounted to a free publicity service. With the greater importance of the North American market this may change. Although it is also possible that the companies may only go after those fansubbers that violate the old honour system (ie. don't sell for profit, don't sub the whole series etc.).

Postby **shooraijin** » Sun Aug 03, 2003 7:29 pm

> Although it is also possible that the companies may only go after those fansubbers that violate the old honour system (ie. don't sell for profit, don't sub the whole series etc.)

Which only makes sense, of course. As you (and others) have pointed out, fansubs win companies free publicity and advance awareness of a series in other countries as well, so everyone is happy

Postby **Fsiphskilm** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:45 pm

Kenchii wrote:FANSUBS ARE NOT ILLEGAL.
There are licenced & unlicenced fansubs. Licenecd fansubs are illegal. Because they all ready came to USA shores and have a licenced. So you can't download thos anime.

True but when you Logicaly think about it. Just because Something wasn't copyrighted in your part of the world doesn't mean you can Take it and change it's image oar manipulate it in what ever way you seem fit. BUT Fansubs and Dubs are realy like mensioned by others promotions. AS for the "FANSUBS ARE NOT ILLEGAL" well technically yes they are... well some of them When movies get liscenced they are NATIONally liscenced, kind of like the Microsoft Windows Logo is a registered trademark of Microsoft in ALL countries.(oops i guess you guys already explained that)

But fansubs are like a GOOD illegal.-> Kind of like...

APPLE: Hey there passer-by here's a can of Spray-paint. And here's $20 bucks, now go spray paint "APPLE ROCKS, WINDOWS SUCKS" on the side of our HQ building.
PASSER-BY: What if I get caught?
APPLE: Don't worry we won't press charges.

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:54 pm

Um... As for the sigs, I think that' s "fair use" At least I hope... Otherwise, I may just stop going online... It's too hard to stay legal... Hmm... That might curb a lot of problems if I don't go online at all...

It is hard to be a part of a fandom that revolves around an illegal practice... Then again, so does being a car addict... If you're obsessed with cars, it's hard to stay legal(illegal mods, illegal racing), but not impossible...

Postby **Twilly Spree** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:09 pm

I personally don't know much about Japanese copyright law, but I do know a great deal about US law. Anywho in the US if a show was taped off tv and then subbed it would fall under fair use. As long as you're not making a profit. There is a slim line between copyright infringement and fair use. That line is tested everyday in court cases.

I have no problem with fansubs, I DO however have a problem with US DVD rips being passed around.I think I'm just rambling now.

Postby **Locke** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:19 pm

now were am i gonna get my anime? huh?

suncoast? i

Postby **Twilly Spree** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 11:05 pm

Hahahaha Suncoast....man they charge you an arm and a leg for anime. I always go to Best Buy or Circuit City first their anime is usually 5 bucks cheaper (boxed sets even more) they just don't have the same selection as Suncoast. Also Game Stop has cheaper anime.

Postby **Shinja** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 11:24 pm

Red Ninja wrote:Hahahaha Suncoast....man they charge you an arm and a leg for anime. I always go to Best Buy or Circuit City first their anime is usually 5 bucks cheaper (boxed sets even more) they just don't have the same selection as Suncoast. Also Game Stop has cheaper anime.

boarders has a large colection of manga and anime, you might try looking there some time

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:44 am

If you have one, Hastings is a good place for NEW anime that's very affordable... Most video stores put anime DVD's in the 30+ range (for ONE DVD) but Hastings sells the DVD's at 20 or less, so it's much easier...

Postby **cbwing0** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 6:56 am

Insofar as fansubs are a form of art as well as a form of entertainment, it is not a good idea for companies to try to prosecute the copywright violations. Most art is based on imitation and/or use of familiar images, and if this is not permitted, where will we get art?

On a personal note, I've watched a few fansubs, and I plan to buy them when they become available in the U.S..

Postby **Fireproof** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:13 pm

So, say I wanted to watch some Naruto, would it be okay to download a fansub and delete it as soon as it's available in the USA, ro would it be better just to wait?

Postby **HeavensTek** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:35 pm

holy crap thats some gravediggin..... =)

honestly man.....go with personal conviction since its a gray area

i personally think fansubs fuel the industry, and since they are intentanally overlooked or outright supported by anime companies that its not an issue at all. i also buy a whole lot of overpriced dvds on top of being a scurvy internet pirate though.....so i do try to support the owners of the "intellectual property" or whatever.

Postby **Fireproof** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:38 pm

Okies. Thanks! About gravedigging, I simply see this as asking a question on the appropriate thread. I'm not guilty of anything. :angel:

Postby **ShiroiHikari** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:17 pm

there have been a lot of threads on this lately, and since this one is so old, it's closed now.

fansubs illegal?

fansubs illegal?

wrong

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