What kind of "Christian" Anime do you want?

[The Doctor]

I'm really impressed with the depth of the conversation in this thread.

To sum up, I think we all agree what we want isn't another sermon (Pastors do that better), but a story where the reality of Christianity exists (Christ lives) and it's allowed to exist, not rammed down our throats. It's just there.

But we want compelling stories about people going on incredible journeys in this reality, and how they change throughout their journey. And communicating that change through the story itself, and not the all too often used cheap dialogue method.

[Midknight74012]

Hey, doc, I believe I have exactly what your looking for
Right here
This is a project that I'm currently working on as well as a few artists.
Unfortunately due to lack of research material, progress has slowed down significantly. I prefer books over the internet. Anyone can write anything on the net and it can be totally opposite of what it really is, so I'm relying on books for my research. But without a job, I haven't been able to purchase the necessary material.

[Nate]

To sum up, I think we all agree what we want isn't another sermon (Pastors do that better), but a story where the reality of Christianity exists (Christ lives) and it's allowed to exist, not rammed down our throats. It's just there.

Right, but as I said, there's two problems. The first is the audience]But we want compelling stories about people going on incredible journeys in this reality, and how they change throughout their journey. And communicating that change through the story itself, and not the all too often used cheap dialogue method.[/QUOTE]
That's another problem is a lot of Christian writers don't seem to be content to have stories happen in this reality. You wouldn't believe how many stories have crap like "Demons are invading the world and Christians have to fight them off!" which is bad, bad, bad. This is I think a problem of the medium than the writers though. The most popular anime tend to be action-oriented for the most part, and the real world and religion don't tend to have a lot of action. Thus they feel they have to have fight scenes with bad guys and swords and guns and stuff!

This is bad, and comes off almost insulting to Christianity. In Acts 19, a group of Jews was going around trying to drive demons out of people, saying "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out." One time a demon just stayed where it was and replied, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" and the demon-possessed person proceeded to beat the crap out of everyone there. So the idea that humans could fight off demons with weapons and saying "Jesus!" is already false. Demons aren't afraid of the name Jesus. Why, the demon in Acts even spoke the name! If they were afraid of it how could they speak it?

Of course, reality-based stories only work if Christianity is explicit. If you were going for something Narnia-like, where the Christian themes were subtle, then magic and superpowers and evil creatures could totally work. But if we're going to say the actual name of Jesus and talk about Christianity, then no fighting demons and Satan being Dr. Claw saying "I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME, CHRIST FORCE! NEXT TIIIIIIIIIIIME!" That makes it hokey and terrible.

[ShiroiHikari]

However, the authors expect us to believe that this person was a saint who never swore, drank, or had sex before his conversion. This is absolutely absurd, and the reasoning is clear.

So you're saying all non-Christians are hedonistic and self-destructive? That's like saying all Christians are isolationist prudes-- it simply isn't true, and it's not a good generalization to propagate in either case. Believe it or not, I do know some non-Christians that don't drink excessively or sleep around (they do swear, though).

Also, I don't think anyone here was saying that we need to make the Mighty Morphin Jesus Rangers. XD

[Midknight74012]

Sheesh.... You really get into detail about what should be a great Christian anime and still be appealing to the lost, don't you Nate? Though I'm not as wordy as you, I have an idea and no one is looking at it. All my characters have their own faults and backgrounds that quite a few people had. Some drank, had major anger issues, hard hearts, one was raped. Trust me, it's not sugar coated. But its not strictly negative, despite having these issues, they make the best of what they got. Using their gifts to help others, since doing it for themselves is now not an option being in a different dimension. While there, they learn vital wisdom to bring back and use to improve not just their lives, but their faith, whether it's newfound or already have it. They will face many hardships in the new dimension and after they get back home. And with their heightened confidence, they can take it on but know they can't take everything on by themselves. There won't be any mention of demons or Satan in the series, the enemy being cybernetic abominations. Mixed DNA of various creatures then cybernetic enhancements are applied. That's as close to being a demon as I can think of and still not be. Want more details?

[TheSubtleDoctor]

Mighty Morphin Jesus Rangers

I am laughing uncontrollably right now, Shiroihikari!

@Nate - I think our discussion has hijacked this thread for too long, so I will respond via PM later .
---
To get back on task: Know what'd be great? Some anime that doesn't depict the church as a corrupt, power-mad nexus of evil. Yup, that would be nice.

[Nate]

So you're saying all non-Christians are hedonistic and self-destructive? That's like saying all Christians are isolationist prudes-- it simply isn't true, and it's not a good generalization to propagate in either case. Believe it or not, I do know some non-Christians that don't drink excessively or sleep around (they do swear, though).

Sorry if I was implying that. Yes, I realize it isn't true that all of them are hedonists and wallow in sin. However, I still don't think it's realistic to have a character acting like a Christian their entire lives when they weren't one.

being in a different dimension.

Oh, I'm sorry, you must not have read my last post. Let me post it again so you can see it this time.

If you were going for something Narnia-like, where the Christian themes were subtle, then magic and superpowers and evil creatures could totally work. But if we're going to say the actual name of Jesus and talk about Christianity, then no fighting demons and Satan being Dr. Claw saying "I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME, CHRIST FORCE! NEXT TIIIIIIIIIIIME!"

Oh yeah, and one more thing. And I know you won't listen, and I know you'll argue with me and say I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong, and despite the fact that I know you will absolutely ignore what I will say, I will say it anyway.

Do not, do not, do not, do not, do NOT put rape in your story. Do NOT. Rape is a very, very serious thing. It is a thing that almost all writers try and put in to make a desperate attempt to create serious drama. The problem is, almost every author does it WRONG. Rape is not a thing to casually throw into a story because the physical and psychological implications of rape are massive.

And your story is an excellent example of doing rape WRONG. As I said before, if you are going to explicitly mention Christianity and Jesus, that means REALISM. "Dimension hopping" is NOT realism. It is hokey. And I would bet that your character who got raped goes to this other dimension and fights these monsters (oh didn't I say something about action and fighting earlier? Yeah pretty sure I did) and she gains strength of heart or some crap and then she's like "Even though I was raped I can accept that now and know that I am loved and move on with my life!" That is extremely, EXTREMELY insulting to anyone who has been raped or knows someone who was raped. You've provided an easy way out for that rape victim. She goes into another dimension and experiences an epiphany and knows firsthand that God exists! Except this isn't realistic, this can never happen in real life. Rather than deal with the emotional and psychological scars of the trauma, she gets a "Get out of pain free!" card so that the repercussions can be safely ignored.

I know you won't listen. And I know you'll say "Oh my use of rape isn't like that at all!" like every other author who has misused rape as an attempt at forced drama. If you want to put rape in your story? Here's what you do. You go and look for rape victims. You read their stories. You read how they felt, how they dealt with it. You understand them. You realize rape is a horrible thing, and not "Hey wouldn't it be cool if this character I have was raped because then I could connect with rape victims!" You understand how a rape victim would act and react to people, especially how they would then feel about friends, family, and relationships.

If you want to make Mighty Morphin' Jesus Rangers, as Nette said, then so be it. That's your choice, but realize that I and many, MANY others feel that what you are doing is the exact problem that Christian productions have.

If you want honest suggestions, this is what I suggest. I will be positive.

One. No dimensions. No fighting bad guys. These are bad, VERY bad for a serious Christian story, because they are cheesy and poorly implemented, and as I said before, do not work in the reality of this world. None of us are now or will ever be fighting an evil organization with cyber-robots. If you want to make a story like this, take Christianity out entirely, because it does not fit together. Read the Narnia books for an example of how a story can be done with Christian themes, and note that it never makes any explicit mention of Jesus or Christianity.

Two. No rape, unless you either know a rape victim personally or have been raped yourself, because that is the only way to fully understand rape victims and properly use it. Realize that using rape as a plot device is very, very touchy, and should only be done if you believe that there is literally no other option for a character's development, and the number of cases that this is true for is quite small.

Three. Decide what the purpose of this is. Come up with the story FIRST and the Christian elements SECOND. C.S. Lewis and Tolkien did not say "I want to write a Christian story, what can I put from Christianity into it?" Lewis said he drew a picture of a faun, and an umbrella, and worked from there. He said Christianity did not even enter into it until after he had been working on it. If you think "I'm going to do something Christian" and then try to hammer out a plot that you're shoehorning Christianity into, you're already starting off wrong. The thought process should be "What do I want to write?" If you are Christian, then your faith should and will naturally express itself through what you're writing, with or without mentioning Christ. Don't even think "How will I put Jesus into this?" Again, that's the wrong way to do it.

However, if you are making a realistic, this could happen in real life drama (which you clearly have no intention of), THEN Jesus and Christianity can and maybe should be explicitly mentioned, because they are part of real life. In this situation, you can start with story or characters, because if it's being realistic then you don't need to worry about a "story" necessarily, since it's not like there is a particular goal to be accomplished if it is just a slice of life thing...kinda like how Yotsuba& doesn't really have an overarching plot, it's just "Here are some neat characters and how they interact in their lives." It works quite well, but again, it's not action-oriented, so a story isn't particularly required.

This is the best advice I can give you. I'm not really a writer, but I can at least identify problems with some things, and give my opinion on them. Whether or not you listen to these things is up to you, and I hope that if I've misspoken about what is important in writing, or gotten some things wrong, that people who actually DO write will step in and say "Hey, you got it wrong man." But as far as I can tell, these are good things to keep in mind, about how to avoid making another poor Christian production.

[Midknight74012]

too bad you don't know whats in my head

[Atria35]

too bad you don't know whats in my head

You're right. He doesn't. But it still might be wise to take that into consideration- especially the part about the rape part. I've read up on those on my own, done research for classes, written papers, and I would still never dream of attempting to put it into a story, because I would do it wrong, and it would disrespect all those who've gone through it, and I've read many stories where it 'gets better' rather miraculously, and that's just not how it happens. Even the threat of it can take a long, long time to get over, and it affects so much of their lives, it's unbelievable.

For one of the better books I've ever read about rape, the psychological, emotional, familial, and social aspects of the before and after, I suggest reading the book Slut! Growing up female with a bad reputation. It covers from about the 1950's onwards, and breaks my heart every time I pick it up, especially since I went through a lot of the harrassment that these girls went through.

[MightiMidget]

too bad you don't know whats in my head

The minute you have an arrogant "I am chosen to convert the world all by my own with my awesome story that will be amazing and perfect" mindset you're doomed to fail. Christianity's base is humility, but like Atria said, at least consider and think about what Nate said--and what Atria said--nothing wrong with disagreeing, but snubbing like that sounded is plain "doomed-to-fail-at-your-goal" laden.

[AnimeGirl]

I think it's sad this is more of a debate than what the title suggests. But to make things clear of what I want...

As an artist and someone of faith, whether I try to make a Christian creation or not, either way, it'll still come out reflecting my beliefs. If one tries to hard to make it Christian, they will fail. But, if you just come up with a story naturally, your faith will shine through, whether it was intended to be Christian or not. So, I'm looking for "Christian anime" where it doesn't feel forced, like the creators were trying too hard to make it Christian, but where it just comes naturally.

[ich1990]

I would like a historical Christian anime with quality writing. Something like the recent movies "Amazing Grace" and "The Blind Side". I wouldn't even mind if it was significantly dramatized or changed like in the books "The Power and the Glory" and "Godric", as long as the core is factual.

My rational is this: the only really visible power of Christianity is through human actions, many of which can be incredible to contemplate and impossible to believe... unless they have actually happened. So, rather than prove that some future, fictional person can go through trauma and "have God save them" and turn their life around (which, even with good writing can be hard to believe), show historical examples of people who had God change them, and then, through the power of that change, go on to do humanly incredible things (though they are still human). I am not talking about casting out demons or performing miracles, either; I am talking about loving people.

[Davidizer13]

One idea I've had is of a medieval story, set in Europe (or a pastiche of medieval Europe) with Christianity as a natural consequence of the culture. It'd be like a fantasy, only without fantastical elements (such as magic, elves, etc.); a close comparison might be the tales of Robin Hood. The characters could potentially be knights or soldiers, so you could still have your fights and stuff if you really had to have them, but it would also explore their characters; how they'd grow in faith and how to live a Christian life, even as things might go horribly wrong around them (an attempt at writing the story involved a foreign invasion and the scattering of their royal family). Just throwing an idea out there.

[Midknight74012]

Well, now that I've had time to sit down and read all this, here's a little something.
Oops, when I said Christian anime, I meant Christian-themed anime, sorry. I already figured its a bad idea to directly implement Christianity into the story.
Atria, I added the book to my ever-growing list.
Your right, I don't understand what goes through the mind of a rape victim. And no, I absolutely don't think rape is a good thing, in fact it's so bad I have to think of a new word to describe it. Here's what I do have for Agnes Young:
She has attempted suicide multiple times with the scars on her wrist to prove it.
She hides behind a bubbly personality.
Believes no one loves her.
This cat now has claws with the bow and arrows I equipped her with.
Please note: This is not finalized in any way, shape, or form. These are just ideas. I don't intend to finalize anything till I have solid information. So, all the current information about this particular is subject to change. And with that, since I don't have the necessary material, I do rely on others like you guys to point at my mistakes. Oh, and all previous work went bye bye when my last hard drive quit working. Anything I had on her is gone with the wind.

The purpose of this project is to create an interesting story that is appealing to anyone who watches it and have Christian values built on that has been taken into careful consideration. That includes extra dimensions. Cause if God wants to create another dimensions or multiple ones, by golly He will. I have asked multiple people, my pastor, martial arts minister and writer Joseph Lumpkin, an apologetic Christian from the same church, a few critics, pastor's wife, mother, sister, etc. as my story takes shape.

With that said, I'm fairly certain what I said may have been clear as mud. Criticism is alright, I don't feel like doing a throw down with anyone. Read, consider, rethink, rewrite. That's how I view criticism.

As for the "Chosen One" jig, I didn't have much time to write something a little more educated and sane, I had be go somewhere right then. Tee hee hee.

[Atria35]

Atria, I added the book to my ever-growing list.
Your right, I don't understand what goes through the mind of a rape victim. And no, I absolutely don't think rape is a good thing, in fact it's so bad I have to think of a new word to describe it.

I never thought you did think it was a good thing. From what I had read, you had written it out to be a very traumatic thing. Which I appreciate you trying to do.

Here's what I do have for Agnes Young:
She has attempted suicide multiple times with the scars on her wrist to prove it.
She hides behind a bubbly personality.
Believes no one loves her.
This cat now has claws with the bow and arrows I equipped her with.

But what you've done here is create the Generic Rape Victim from... every bad story where rape is, again, 'made better' in a relatively short amount of time. That's really my main beef- no matter what claws you give her, the psychology of it wouldn't affect her the way I'm thinking you'd have it- like sleeping with her bow and arrows beside her and being ready to use them just in case. Especially since it appears to be ongoing (or have happened fairly recently and been happening for a long while) in your story. The scars from that would take years and a lot of care and support to get over, if she ever got over it.

Please note: This is not finalized in any way, shape, or form. These are just ideas. I don't intend to finalize anything till I have solid information. So, all the current information about this particular is subject to change. And with that, since I don't have the necessary material, I do rely on others like you guys to point at my mistakes. Oh, and all previous work went bye bye when my last hard drive quit working. Anything I had on her is gone with the wind.

Giving my stamp of 'doing the homework'. That's fine. As long as you understand the depth of psychology and emotion that you'd have to go through to make her a convincing character and not marginalize the event and aftermath. It's a very, very complex issue that will require a lot of study and reading and talking to do properly.

[Nate]

D'oh, I seem to keep misrepresenting my own thoughts on the subject. So I find myself having to go back and constantly clarify.

One idea I've had is of a medieval story, set in Europe (or a pastiche of medieval Europe) with Christianity as a natural consequence of the culture. It'd be like a fantasy, only without fantastical elements (such as magic, elves, etc.)]had[/I] to have them

I think this would work. I didn't mean that there couldn't be ANY action, though I may have implied that along the way somewhere. I should have said "fantastical action." So you could still have say, shootouts or swordfights depending on the time period and plot necessity. I was talking more about stuff like "I summon the Sword of the Spirit!" and then the sword flashes into their hands like Bleach or something. That's really really bad.

Ich put into words, I think, anything better than I could say.

Your right, I don't understand what goes through the mind of a rape victim. And no, I absolutely don't think rape is a good thing, in fact it's so bad I have to think of a new word to describe it.

But the problem is this: you admit you know nothing of what rape victims go through, but you're putting it into your story anyway. If you don't know anything about what rape victims go through, why are you writing about it? This is why I made the statement I made earlier. I wasn't saying you think rape is good or cool; far from it. But you have to understand, what is the motivation behind writing about something you have no knowledge of? The only reason, the absolute only reason I can think of is "I need something that will cause drama and anguish for a character. How about rape? Yeah that might work out well." I honestly cannot think of any other reason why you would put this into your story if you're not knowledgeable about it. If this wasn't your thought process, feel free to tell me what your thought process is or was.

If you think rape is so bad that you need a new word to describe it, then please do not belittle those who have personally experienced it in real life by writing about it if you don't know anything about it. I don't know any Holocaust survivors, I haven't talked about anyone who went through it. So I would not insult them by saying "Y'know, I think I'll write a book about a Holocaust survivor even though I don't know anything about what it was like."

In that case, I would read firsthand accounts by people who actually went through the experience. I would try and find interviews with them from TV. And I wouldn't listen to just one. I'd listen to many of them, from many different people. From old people, young people, from men, from women, from Jews, from non-Jews, ones who went to this camp or that camp, ones who had family members die, ones who tried to hide, and so on. That's the point is it would take a lot of research. You said you'd read the book Atria mentioned and that's good! But it's only the first step. You can't just read one book and then say "Well, now I know enough!"

Cause if God wants to create another dimensions or multiple ones, by golly He will.

If God wants to turn me into Superman, by golly He will. If God wants to transform me into a woman, by golly He will.

The problem is will God do these things? No. Just because God can do something doesn't mean He will do something and thus, this is why superpowers and magic and time travel and other dimensions are not compatible with Christianity. No one is questioning God's power or saying "He can't create other dimensions!" God is all-powerful, but He doesn't do everything His power allows Him.

I have asked multiple people, my pastor, martial arts minister and writer Joseph Lumpkin, an apologetic Christian from the same church, a few critics, pastor's wife, mother, sister, etc. as my story takes shape.

Are any of these people professional writers? You mention one by name, but you say he's an apologetic Christian, which I assume means he writes apologetics, but apologetics is not fiction. You're writing a fictional story which is vastly different from apologetics. That's not to say his advice isn't useful; he can help you with the mechanics of writing to be sure. But mechanics is different from content. With apologetics you don't have to create plot, setting, characters, dialogue, and so on. You just have to state facts in an interesting and meaningful way. So, while I appreciate that you are getting input, it's probably not input from sources who are useful.

That sounds harsh, but the reason I'm saying it is that people who know you personally will often praise you, even if your work isn't good. They don't want to hurt your feelings. That's why if you want real criticism, real input, you have to go to people you don't know and may not even like you, and say "Hey, here's my idea, what do you think?" They don't have an emotional attachment to you and are likely to be more honest in their criticism. So while it's awesome you're talking to all these people about it, you need to talk to people you don't know. And if you really want input? Show it to non-Christians. See what they think. Because you want it to be appealing to anyone who watches it, that's what you said, right? So you need, you absolutely need to show it to non-Christians and get their input. Because if you only ask on CAA and your church, you'll probably end up with something that only appeals to Christians, which isn't what you want, right?

[Midknight74012]

Here is my intention for her, since I know this particular bit is crazy sensitive. Read lots of material, think up how to implement this tragedy into this story, write it up taking careful consideration on what I write and how I write it, have it read by multiple people multiple times, then implement that and off I go. Deal?

Nate, the pastor, the Apologetic Christian and martial arts minister are 3 different people. Sorry for the misunderstanding. As for the me know nothing about rape victims, did you read the:

Please note: This is not finalized in any way, shape, or form. These are just ideas. I don't intend to finalize anything till I have solid information. So, all the current information about this particular is subject to change. And with that, since I don't have the necessary material, I do rely on others like you guys to point at my mistakes. Oh, and all previous work went bye bye when my last hard drive quit working. Anything I had on her is gone with the wind.

But the information from people gives me ideas but I won't finalize it until I do have solid information.

Oh, and uh don't assume God won't do something, including creating dimensions, you never truly know.

[Nate]

Which is all well and good but you still haven't answered my question.

"If you don't know anything about what rape victims go through, why are you writing about it?"

Your response is, "I'll read about it and find out." That doesn't answer the question posed. I touched briefly on it in a previous post, but I'll ask it again. Why does it have to be rape? Are you absolutely sure that there is nothing else that can cause dramatic tension outside of it? You haven't justified the use of rape as a plot device yet, which is also pretty important to do.

I asked you your thought process, and I'll ask again. Is this or is this not what went through your head when you decided upon this? "I need something that will cause drama and anguish for a character. How about rape? Yeah that might work out well." If it is not what you thought, please tell me what you did think.

[Midknight74012]

alrighty then, this'll be tough.
Rape is very serious, we agree on that. Although they are screaming with emotion in their heart, they remain silent. I don't want them to be ignored simply because they are silent. And since there won't be direct mention of God in this, it's a little trickier. So I'll say there is a God that loves you for who you are since He is the one who created you.
But with the victims' distrust in people, assuming that's correct, it's hard to warm up to people so I'll have to think of something clever. Know this, I don't intend to back away from this because even though this is a difficult subject to write about especially with no experience on talking with them, all the more reason to write about it. I doubt many people write to rape victims and are successful, despite the work that went into it. I won't ignore the silent, I want to do what I can to bring them hope, even if it is through anime most probably won't watch. I will figure out something that is helpful, not harmful. I will get feedback from people who were victims themselves and are willing to help me with this.
I'm not sure if this answered your question but it's the best thing I can come up with.
"Who's gonna fight for the weak?
Who's gonna make them believe?" Possibly my favorite line from my favorite song Hero by Skillet.

[goldenspines]

You do have an interesting and stimulating discussion going on here, but it seems to be getting off topic from the original thread's purpose. Please take it to PM, gentlemen (Mid and Nate).


Also,
[quote="ich1990 (post: 1389644)"]I would like a historical Christian anime with quality writing. Something like the recent movies "Amazing Grace" and "The Blind Side". I wouldn't even mind if it was significantly dramatized or changed like in the books "The Power and the Glory" and "Godric", as long as the core is factual.

My rational is this: the only really visible power of Christianity is through human actions, many of which can be incredible to contemplate and impossible to believe... unless they have actually happened. So, rather than prove that some future, fictional person can go through trauma and "have God save them" and turn their life around (which, even with good writing can be hard to believe), show historical examples of people who had God change them, and then, through the power of that change, go on to do humanly incredible things (though they are still human). I am not talking about casting out demons or performing miracles, either] I agree with this post.

[Sailor Kenshin]

We all know that real "Christian" Anime almost doesn't exist, say for SuperBook and Flying House.

That being said, there are many fine examples of movies with Christian themes, be they overt (The Passion of the Christ) or subtle (Batman Begins, Spider-Man 1-3, Superman Returns).

What kind of Christian Anime would you most want to see?

I'm a filmmaker who just finished his first short film so I'm curious as to the answers here, mainly because I'm a Christian who loves anime and I have my own opinions on this.

I like to 'find' the Christian themes in ordinary anime, such as FMA (original---one of the best), GaoGaiGar ("I was given this body by God for a purpose!") and Yuu Yuu Hakusho (sacrifice and redemption).

You can also find it in Rurouni Kenshin (humility v. arrogance---with a heavy side dish of atonement).

What I would love is if a native Japanese Christian-since-birth would definitively animate the Lord of the Rings. Being a 'man of the modern mind,' Peter Jackson missed virtually all the Christian themes in the book.

[JaniceMcPherson]

[color="Orange"]Kinda new but I guess I'll add my two cents.[/color]

[color="Lime"]We all hurt and have trouble from time to time, so that's why we relate to what characters in anime go through too.[/color] [color="Yellow"]I think [SIZE="5"]God[/SIZE] created everything in the world to inspire us to dream big.[/color] [color="Red"]And anime helps me dream.[/color] [color="Cyan"]So I think it's on my [SIZE="4"]POSITIVE[/SIZE] things list.[/color]

[Atria35]

[color="Orange"]Kinda new but I guess I'll add my two cents.[/color]

[color="Lime"]We all hurt and have trouble from time to time, so that's why we relate to what characters in anime go through too.[/color] [color="Yellow"]I think [SIZE="5"]God[/SIZE] created everything in the world to inspire us to dream big.[/color] [color="Red"]And anime helps me dream.[/color] [color="Cyan"]So I think it's on my [SIZE="4"]POSITIVE[/SIZE] things list.[/color]

As inspiring as that is, I'm not sure how that relates to the rest of the thread....

[Midori]

So you could still have say, shootouts or swordfights depending on the time period and plot necessity. I was talking more about stuff like "I summon the Sword of the Spirit!" and then the sword flashes into their hands like Bleach or something. That's really really bad.

I take it from this that you can have fantastical action in a Christian story without being bad, if you approach it right. Specifically I am not talking about monsters being demons and magic being harnessing the power of God or Satan in a physical form. I mean if you had a fantasy story where the monsters are, basically, dangerous animals, like they are in secular fantasy. And where the magic is not spiritually-based, but works according to rules of the universe your story is in, like science works in the real world. Then, I think you could have characters who are explicitly Christian, and deal with Christian things, and also fight dragons, like David fought wild beasts to defend his flock of sheep.

It's not like our faith is only appropriate for a realistic world. I can imagine something like the regular fantasy anime I see, except that the characters pray to the one true God, instead of Gaia or the five spirits of magic or something. The spiritual reality of Christ does not have to be stretched onto a fictional system of magic to fit in.

This wouldn't mean, of course, that the magic is exempt from God's control, since He controls everything in the world. It's just that the magic should not be an express metaphor of the wielder's faith. A magician could give glory to God for their talent like a musician would for theirs, but magic would not be any more 'special' than the talent of music. Do you see what I am getting at?

(Of course that's not saying anything about 'magicians' in the real world. Non-spiritual magic does not exist in reality and so anybody who tries to practice real magic is doing something either futile or sinful. Just thought I'd make sure of my position on this.)

[Midknight74012]

movin on. So, something that doesn't evangelize or pastor Christianity. Not sugar coated but not threatening. <----- PM for details. But have very Christian values and how to act in certain situations. That'll be tough seeing as people are different so they will have different views. No magic or "divine" intervention that is least likely to happen. No one is perfect no matter how many good deeds they do.
From me, don't focus on just one or few races, use a huge multitude. Very diverse, if you will. Some of the characters should be a Pacifist by nature. Never throwing the first punch. They first look for a solution, and if the enemy acts first, neutralize them. Notice I said neutralize, not kill. The only time that should happen is in the "It's him, or us." situation where they don't care what you have to say, your a goner.

Edit: I agree with Midori

[Midori]

Some of the characters should be a Pacifist by nature. Never throwing the first punch. They first look for a solution, and if the enemy acts first, neutralize them

The thing is that pacifist characters are rather a stereotype even in secular stories. But this is probably fine if you don't emphasize it too much. From a Christian viewpoint, it's obvious that a good person would avoid violence whenever possible, and try neutralizing preferably to killing, so you don't need to announce that your characters are like that outright.

I think that may sometimes be part of what causes that preachy feeling. It's natural to emphasize the unique aspects of a character's personality, so it's a little too easy to overemphasize the good nature of your Christian characters, especially if you think of their Christianity as being a part of their character design, like cat ears, or a stutter.

[airichan623]

Well I doubt we would get much of an overtly Christian anime out of Japan, honestly. Right now, what I wanna see is a slice of life story with a side or main character who has biblical Christian beliefs. I dont mean a Chrono Crusade type thing or a Zakuro from Tokyo Mew Mew (who prays practically to a dead boyfriend in a Catholic Church).

On a fun note, how bout an anime Narnia or Ted Dekker book? XD

[The Doctor]

I think one thing we need to realize here is this:

Anti-Christians somehow have mastered the craft of telling excellent stories that are wild and fanciful, but at their heart implant seeds of lies to the reader/viewer.

Take Star Trek, for example. The hidden lie in that series is that science can conquer anything. There are "gods", but no one true God. Everything is relative.

Take Doctor Who, my personal favorite sci fi show right now. VERY good storytelling so far (with a few hiccups now and then) but it's VERY left wing and anti-God, bordering on outright propaganda at times.

Take this for example. In the "Sontaran Stratagem", the Doctor squares off against his old nemesis the Sontarans, a bloodthirsty military race bent on conquest, using new technology in cars to seal off the earth and kill the human race. Now, let's take a look here:

The Sontarans. They're a race of soldiers, bent on conquest. They use weapons of war and live for battle. We're shown, subtly, that militaries and weapons are bad. "But what about the Earth military that the Doctor is working with to save Earth?" The Doctor is shown to hold contempt even for them, and decries them holding weapons. In fact, they're portrayed as idiots really. So, underneath this great story where the Doctor is trying to save Earth, we're receiving meta-messages of how evil militaries and weapons are.

Then you have the father of sci-fi, HG Wells himself. His epic, War of the Worlds, when studied closely enough (and when you read his own words) that book is nothing more than Wells' own personal indictment of the British Empire, as it was in those days. We all remember it for it being the first alien invasion story. Few remember it being really a political treatise.

Now, if these people, who in general create anti-Christian works, have mastered the art of story in this manner why can't we?

Personally, I think we should learn from the Master Himself, Jesus. Do you know how many parables He told where He didn't even reference Himself or the rest of the Holy Trinity? The Lady with the coin (Picture of The Holy Spirit going to and fro searching for the lost images of God, us) The shepherd and the sheep (picture of Christ)? The Prodigal son (Picture of Father God waiting for the lost to return to Him, and shower the lost with pure grace)? All are pictures, types of the kingdom of Heaven and the Trinity. But not once did Jesus reference Himself or the Trinity in the actual story (He only gave explanations to His disciples). Jesus is the master storyteller.

We see this mastery practiced after His departure in men like J.R.R. Tolkien. We, like them, must find a way to tell stories where our faith is the fuel for the creation of it. We should strive to take people, saved or not, on journeys to far distant worlds, universes, dimensions, times, and places they could only dream of that are fueled by our faith but doesn't force it on them. It just says the Word of God in a translated manner, planting truth deep into the person's soul. Sometimes, when you quote Scripture, people get offended. But if you, guided by The Holy Spirit, speak it in everyday language that doesn't sound like Scripture, it can penetrate the heart and do it's work.

We should aspire higher, to take people where they've always wanted to go, and let the Truth do it's work without forcing it. Just let it flow.

[Nate]

I take it from this that you can have fantastical action in a Christian story without being bad, if you approach it right. Specifically I am not talking about monsters being demons and magic being harnessing the power of God or Satan in a physical form. I mean if you had a fantasy story where the monsters are, basically, dangerous animals, like they are in secular fantasy. And where the magic is not spiritually-based, but works according to rules of the universe your story is in, like science works in the real world. Then, I think you could have characters who are explicitly Christian, and deal with Christian things, and also fight dragons, like David fought wild beasts to defend his flock of sheep.

Yep, I'm cool with that. I'm not against action, just superpowers. Like I'd have no problem with what you said, explicitly Christian characters fighting, let's say, genetically engineered animals or robots. But not demons.

I can imagine something like the regular fantasy anime I see, except that the characters pray to the one true God, instead of Gaia or the five spirits of magic or something.

This...I can't agree with though.

The thing is that pacifist characters are rather a stereotype even in secular stories.

What about Amelia's father from Slayers?

PACIFIST CRUSH!
KINDNESS TO ALL CREATURES KICK!
GOODWILL TOWARDS MEN SMASH!

The Sontarans. They're a race of soldiers, bent on conquest. They use weapons of war and live for battle. We're shown, subtly, that militaries and weapons are bad.

That doesn't follow. It looks to me that it's saying "Living only for war and fighting and trying to conquer everybody is bad." This is not the same as "The military and weapons are bad." In fact you said yourself that they're "a bloodthirsty military race bent on conquest." I don't see how anyone could think this was anything other than bad and accept them as completely evil without question.

[Cognitive Gear]

I think one thing we need to realize here is this:

Anti-Christians somehow have mastered the craft of telling excellent stories that are wild and fanciful, but at their heart implant seeds of lies to the reader/viewer.

I just wanted to point out that most of the examples you gave are political in nature, not Christian or religious in nature. Being right or left wing politically has no impact on one's Christianity, and as such should have no impact on if a piece of media is considered pro or anti Christian.

Honestly, if someone wants to make something with a Christian message, I think they should do it while staying as far away from politics as possible. It's much easier to let Christ's love do the talking when there aren't politicians with loudspeakers drowning it out.