How do you use anime?

[GhostontheNet]

I like to use Anime to play frisbee...

In all seriousness, I like to watch Anime with my friends to bond more closely and to provide creative inspiration for my writing (much of which can be read on my blog). There's really nothing quite like watching a whole series with your friends, and its really quite a treat. I guess from the theological point of view I only use it in tangent. Truth be told, in real life I am a very lame evangelist, although at least I don't make things worse by coming off as a jerk. But in my writing I have the ability to bring back fruits from the promised land and let the reader taste its sweetness, which happens to conform neatly to my own idea of evangelism.

[GhostontheNet]

What do you mean by "Christian interpretations"? Remember, it is the creator who determines the meaning of a story.

.rai/

As if there was only one interpretation to begin with? In literary circles, they say this is the age of the death of the author, by which they mean that the author themselves is a product of cultural forces beyond their control, and hence the author cannot fix a text with a single definitive meaning because ultimately it is the culture writing through that author. While as Christians it probably would not be wise to simply jump on that bandwagon, we should at least learn not to marginalize the inspiration or impact a media source had on us simply because it doesn't neatly conform to the author's intent. At any rate, most directors are aware that different scenes will affect audiences in different ways, and so write their film in a way that a variety of audiences can appreciate in different ways and for different reasons. To that end: long live the Christian interpretations! That is, at least, if they have some semblance of credibility, and aren't stretching things further than a taffy puller.

[LadyRushia]

Sometimes when I watch anime, things jump out at me that remind me a little bit of the way God acts. The series may or may not have Christian themes, but it's still nice to find those things. I don't necessarily go looking for them, though. Also, a million different people can have different interpretations of any given work whether the creator puts them in there or not.

[Raiden no Kishi]

As if there was only one interpretation to begin with?

. . . what? I said no such thing. I'm well aware that there are multiple interpretations to any given bit of communication - I am a communication studies major and a thinking, observing individual, after all. However, not all interpretations are equally valid.

In literary circles, they say this is the age of the death of the author, by which they mean that the author themselves is a product of cultural forces beyond their control, and hence the author cannot fix a text with a single definitive meaning because ultimately it is the culture writing through that author.

Which is nice, but I'm afraid it's far too deterministic for me, a Christian, to accept. However, I notice that you don't accept it either, and that's as it should be. ^_^

While as Christians it probably would not be wise to simply jump on that bandwagon, we should at least learn not to marginalize the inspiration or impact a media source had on us simply because it doesn't neatly conform to the author's intent.

I never said that culture doesn't have influence. In fact, understanding the cultural context of a communique (specifically, that of its author and intended audience) is an important tool for understanding the author's intent, which is the key to the meaning of the communique itself.

At any rate, most directors are aware that different scenes will affect audiences in different ways, and so write their film in a way that a variety of audiences can appreciate in different ways and for different reasons.

Granted, but this falls under the category of "author's intent". It is their intent to load their film (in this case) with multiple meanings for multiple audiences. This is not always the case, as I'm sure you're more than aware.

To that end: long live the Christian interpretations! That is, at least, if they have some semblance of credibility, and aren't stretching things further than a taffy puller.

The only credibility that an intellectually honest person can grant to an interpretation is its alignment with authorial intent. If an interpretation differs from what the author intended the message to "say," then the interpretation is incorrect (at least, in the points of divergence). Therefore I say long live the correct interpretation(s)!

.rai//

[Bekalou]

Eh, I dunno, Raiden. As a college student who had taken an lot of English classes, I've constantly had to wonder about whether the opinions and interpretations that the textbooks, professors, and other students have are really what the author was thinking. The problem is, we can't ask the author. The author never wrote "what he meant by that" down, even if the author is still alive. And if we do ask the author, more than likely he won't say. In this way, you really can't claim "long live the correct interpretation" because, quite frankly, there isn't a "correct interpretation."

The Bible is a different case; I definitely DON'T mean to say that one can interpret the Bible any way they want. I think God makes Himself pretty clear in there, anyway, so we don't have to argue about it (granted, there are areas of the Bible that people debate about, but as far as the core teachings go, they're pretty undebatable).

Anyway, I think what GhostontheNet was trying to say was that while the creator of an anime/manga series might have one particular agenda in mind, we as Christians are free to take the content of the anime in a way that we choose. It's not "incorrect," because we're still taking the anime content as it is, but we're viewing that content from a Christian perspective, and thus it means something slightly different to us than it would to other viewers.

[Raiden no Kishi]

Eh, I dunno, Raiden. As a college student who had taken an lot of English classes, I've constantly had to wonder about whether the opinions and interpretations that the textbooks, professors, and other students have are really what the author was thinking. The problem is, we can't ask the author. The author never wrote "what he meant by that" down, even if the author is still alive. And if we do ask the author, more than likely he won't say. In this way, you really can't claim "long live the correct interpretation" because, quite frankly, there isn't a "correct interpretation."

Incorrect. First, you can't assume that the author cannot be consulted. This is not universally true, which is what you seem to be saying. Second, you assume that a living author would not reveal his intent to the audience. This is in nearly all cases illogical. Third, though it may be difficult or inaccessible in a perfect sense, the author's intended meaning (the "correct interpretation") still exists and therefore should be pursued. I don't care how many English classes you've taken. The principle of communication is very, very simple. An author (replace "author" with whatever equivalent term you wish for a specific medium of communication) has certain ideas/concepts/messages he/she wishes to transmit to one or more other individuals. To derive other ideas/concepts/messages from the transmission is incorrect and should be avoided whenever possible. Breakdowns in communication can have dire consequences - to take a dismissive attitude towards the concept of "correct interpretation" is dangerous, to say the least.

The Bible is a different case]
While one technically can interpret the Bible any way they want, they can also be horribly, horribly wrong on any and all points by doing so. (Sorry, my inner pedant took control for a second.) Also, you'd be surprised at how much of the Bible is debated - nearly all of it is at some point by someone, ridiculous as it might be.

Anyway, I think what GhostontheNet was trying to say was that while the creator of an anime/manga series might have one particular agenda in mind, we as Christians are free to take the content of the anime in a way that we choose. It's not "incorrect," because we're still taking the anime content as it is, but we're viewing that content from a Christian perspective, and thus it means something slightly different to us than it would to other viewers.

What basis do you have for saying the Bible cannot (strictly, should not) be interpreted "any way [you] want,' but not any other "text" (replace "text" with whatever medium you choose)? There is no logical defense for such a double-standard. Why can we only take the content of the Scriptures one way, but can take other messages as we choose?

The Bible is a communicated message, just like any other written text is a communicated message. The same rules apply to it as they do to all communicated messages. There is a certain set of ideas/concepts/etc. that each message is intended to communicate. This set is determined by the author, and exists whether anyone else "gets it" or not. It is the duty of the author to communicate these ideas/concepts/etc. as clearly as he/she can. It is the duty of the audience to receive them as clearly as they can. In this way, communication works at its highest level. To say of one message, "We must interpret this one way and that one way only," and then to say of all others, "We can't ask the author, so screw it, there is no right way," is illogical and ridiculous.

.rai//

[Paul]

I often try to look at anime and see if there's any Christian interpretations. I'm amazed at how Christianity can unintentionally be brought into some titles, like these:
Full Metal Alchemist
Haibane Renmei
Trigun

That is one way to look at it. When I was in Mass Media class, I took a different look at how Christianity unintentionally was used. More specifically The Beatles. As secular as they were, they still unknowingly taught the basics of Christianity in many of their songs. The one I pointed out in class was "All you need is Love."

What I presented was this...Isn't it amazing how God uses everyday people, and everyday common things to help seed, feed, and water both Christians and non-Christians, to help them in their walk. Be it the encouaging word for a Christian having a tough day, or the non-believer, who may hear those lyrics, "All you need is Love..." or "Knocking on Heaven's door", or in the case of Anime the birth of angels in Haibane Renmie or the ever so devoted Sister Rosette of Chrono Crusades, who's on a mission to save her brother from the clutches of the Devil.

My point is, although we cannot claim all anime with christian themes to be the definitive word of God, what we can do is, if we stop and look a little closer at what the message is, we may see God in it, and can tie key points to scripture, unwittingly place there by the author, or unknowingly being guided by the hand of God.

Paul

[Paul]

Woaa! Woaa! Woaa! Errr!!!! Screech!!! Stop!

Everybody thank you! Thank you. Now lets go to our corners and lets take a deep breath and sigh! Count to ten. (1..., 2..., 3...,)

No disrespect to Raiden No Kishi, Bekalou, Ghost on the Net, nor Rocklobster. Whew! Please, in spirit of CAA, our faith as brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus Christ, and to the sanctity of this Sanctuary of God place here by the moderators of CAA. Let's not do this! We are not here to debate the bible and interpretations.

We are all here from different walks of life and faith in Jesus Christ. There are multidenominations and non-Christians who are here visiting the website, and we all are going to see things differently. It's ok. But we have to be on our best behavior so we don't cause a stumbling block for one another, or someone who may be unsaved. (Paul wipes forehead)

Now let's shake hands, give each other a hug, and I'm calling this a tie! Now, back to the orgins of the thread, which I started, because I want to know and be encouraged by the testimonies of others who are also devoted to using anime to see people saved, and how God has used Anime to change their life. So, let's share how we use anime in our walk. It's ok if it's just entertainment. It's ok, if we like to disect it and see how the author ties Christianity to it, or just puts it in there because they can. It's ok, that some of us use it to spread the gospel. (I'm sure that's how many of us got here to CAA in the first place). Because we was looking for a Christian based Anime web site. It's ok if we just like to draw the stuff in Christian form and share it with likeminded fellow believers. But it's not ok to argue about it or have a debate about the bible. Those are against the rules. I don't want to lose my priviledge to be a CAA member, neither does anyone else.

Ok. Ok!

Now, in the spirit of unity for the bonds of peace..., for Raiden No Kishi, Bekalou, Ghost on the Net, how do you anime, and how can we all as Christian Anime Artists come together in one accord and be power artists for God? I would love to know.

Paul

[LadyRushia]

lol, They weren't really at the point of debating (yet) and the mods generally allow discussion as long it doesn't get crazy; however, this thread has gotten off topic a bit, XD.

Like I said before, sometimes story arcs and characters jump out at me as God-like. For example, the first major arc of Bleach:
[SPOILER] When Rukia was going to be executed in Soul Society for her "crimes" and Ichigo came in and saved her from death. Yeah, on one level it's the whole "hero saves the maiden" thing, but it reminded me of how we sin and deserve death and then Jesus steps in and saves us from that. Granted, the reason for Rukia's punishment was all conspiracy and Ichigo is no Jesus.[/SPOILER]
And in Naruto:
[SPOILER] When Sasuke betrayed everyone, Naruto desperately chased after him and continues to do so even though Sasuke keeps beating him. That kind of desperation reminds me of how God never stops chasing after us and tries to bring us back.[/SPOILER]
Sometimes, Christianity is directly portrayed as something positive like in 20th Century Boys.
[SPOILER] One of my favorite parts, besides all the epic Kanna and Otcho moments, is during the part where we learn about Father Luciano's past. He's asked by a priest to tell him if a bible is a fake or not, so he reads it. When the priest asks him about it again, he says "This copy is fake, but what's inside it is real."[/SPOILER]
Finding things like this really helps to counter the whole "anime is evil" argument. God finds ways to appear in everything, anime and manga included.

[Bekalou]

Thank you Paul, I'm sort of regretting getting involved in that now ^^;

Anyway, I think you're right - I think that as Christians we are free to enjoy any fictional media we so choose, but we should do so critically. Essentially, any message that is given in an anime or manga series can be compared to God's truth, and we as Christians can see things that others might not be able to. We can learn things for ourselves about God's truth even when the creators of the series didn't consciously intend it. I like LadyRushia's interpretation of the Bleach arc; I'm not sure Kubo Tite was thinking along the same lines as LadyRushia when he constructed that scenario, but if LadyRushia can be reminded of God's truth through that, that's wonderful.

The same goes for series like Fullmetal Alchemist and Death Note, where even though we're presented with stories and characters that don't follow along with what God teaches in His Word, we can still see that the Truth is as present in fiction as it is in reality by the consequences of those character's actions. Seeing as fiction generally emulates reality, it's natural that God's Truth should appear

[GhostontheNet]

Woaa! Woaa! Woaa! Errr!!!! Screech!!! Stop!

Everybody thank you! Thank you. Now lets go to our corners and lets take a deep breath and sigh! Count to ten. (1..., 2..., 3...,)

Woah man, take it easy! Who said I was angry? I'll admit that I don't always remember that I'm not in the company of philosophers, and that building up logical arguments (or in other words, evidences) for or against a particular idea can be misconstrued as trying to ignite the flame war missile crisis. This discussion between us isn't really a matter of denominational dispute, but a question of methods to interpret a text or media source, which is known as hermeneutics. In a nutshell, Raiden no Kishi thinks a text is like a solid object that has a definite shape and form, while I think that a text is like a liquid with fluid properties that fills a container. Both views have their advantages, disadvantages, and practical implications, not least as relates to how we think about Anime as Christians, and so are worthy of discussion.

[uc pseudonym]

CAA's rules on debates vary, so let me reiterate: discussions of theology are locked because CAA wants to avoid denominational matters; discussions of politics and DND titles are locked because members have proven unable to avoid unnecessary debate on them; and discussions that become flamewars are locked for the sake of community.

Discussions and even debates are encouraged, however, provided the tone remains civil. People will always disagree, and I see no way for everyone's understanding to be furthered unless differing positions are discussed in an intelligent manner.

Now to be nominally on topic: my answer to the question is "Like any other form of entertainment."

But as for the discussion itself, I think it might be helpful to draw a distinction between the terms interpretation and illustration. In the case of interpretation, you mean to say that a particular work of art means something.* But with illustration, you merely use a work as a parallel to something else.

For example, say that a character sacrifices himself for everyone else and you note the similarities to Christ. Certainly, those similarities exist, but unless that character has many other messianic characteristics that's not really what the work means. After all, self-sacrifice is a common theme in much literature from many cultures and many religions (not to mention other moral values).

*Regardless of if this is the author's intent or a conclusion based on internal evidence. Personally I have some problems with those parts of modern literary criticism that deny the weight of authorial intent and context, but that would really get us too far off topic.

[Paul]

[Note: posts merged.]

Woah man, take it easy! Who said I was angry? I'll admit that I don't always remember that I'm not in the company of philosophers, and that building up logical arguments (or in other words, evidences) for or against a particular idea can be misconstrued as trying to ignite the flame war missile crisis. This discussion between us isn't really a matter of denominational dispute, but a question of methods to interpret a text or media source, which is known as hermeneutics. In a nutshell, Raiden no Kishi thinks a text is like a solid object that has a definite shape and form, while I think that a text is like a liquid with fluid properties that fills a container. Both views have their advantages, disadvantages, and practical implications, not least as relates to how we think about Anime as Christians, and so are worthy of discussion.

Not accusing anyone of being angry. Not pointing fingers. Not taking sides. Just trying to keep the thread on task. Everything you had to say was ok, was a good start, but then everyone left the orginal thread, including me, which was not on task. In my experience, it's better to stop a fire before it starts, and to focus on prevention. (I used to be a forest firefighter). Debating individual biblical interpretations can get nasty quick, in the spirit of good intentions, thus it's better to do it in the appropriate threads, where CAA Mods can keep the peace. No offence, didn't mean to offend you or accuse of anything. Just wanted to keep the thread on task. "How do you use Anime?"

Paul

[quote="uc pseudonym (post: 1252916)"]CAA's rules on debates vary, so let me reiterate: discussions of theology are locked because CAA wants to avoid denominational matters]

Thank you kindly sir, for your remarks. You're approach was well taken.

Humbly, Paul

[Paul]

[quote="uc pseudonym (post: 1252916)"]CAA's rules on debates vary, so let me reiterate: discussions of theology are locked because CAA wants to avoid denominational matters]

Thank you kindly sir, for your remarks. You're approach was well taken.

Humbly, Paul