The Click's letter to Adult Swim

[Nate]

Perhaps he meant AS's original content? At least that is how I interpreted his post.

OH yeah now that you mention it, he probably was. I just saw Roy's post about how Sci-Fi is only showing Manga Entertainment junk, and then I just kinda figured termyt was talking about that. Sorry termyt!

And yeah Roy, uc was referencing me who was referencing termyt, not the letter. XD;; SO CONFUSING.

[Roy Mustang]

Ah, okay. Then sorry for the confusing as well.

But I still think the Home Movies and IGPX was a little odd to bring up in the letter.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

[mitsuki lover]

If one had bothered to read up on the original deal with Ani-Monday one would have seen that indeed the deal was with Manga and Starz.I think
ANN or someone had it posted when Ani-Monday was first announced.I know I read it somewheres that Sci Fi had a deal with Starz.
Actually they are going to be showing two new OVAs in the next several weeks:PSYCHIC WARS and VAMPIRE WARS.PSYCHIC WARS will air this coming Monday between the series finale of Tactics and the premiere of
Tokko.
VAMPIRE WARS will air in two weeks before eps. 2 and 3 of Tokko.
As far as AS goes WHEN are they gonna air Code Geass?

[Roy Mustang]

As far as AS goes WHEN are they gonna air Code Geass?

http://www.christiananime.net/showthread.php?t=22507&page=32

Go to that thread. I don't post the stuff for my health.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang
[/font]
[/color]

[Roy Mustang]

BTW: The click wrote this tonight.

Wow, when I posted my little Adult Swim rant last week I was thrown for a bit of a loop - people actually defended Adult Swim's business decisions, not necessarily out of fanboyish love, but for purely rational and educated reasons.

More of a reason, then, that all you guys who read this site should be darn proud of yourselves - that sort of reasoned logic would certainly not be present at Adult Swim's own forums, or practically any other big anime discussion group out there. Kudos and a big, piping hot plate of delicious homemade cookies for all!*

From what I read of it, he wanted to see how people reply to it.


[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Yeah, but it's making them money. Outside of shows like Cowboy Bebop, Big O, and Inu Yasha, nothing really set quite the public stir like their in house cartoons. Some of their regular stuff has gone on to be huge public phenomena, despite what you may or may not think of them.

[Nate]

What Etoh said. It's not that Adult Swim views anime as less profitable, it's that it IS less profitable. Cowboy Bebop is pretty much the only anime that's really set their ratings on fire. Otherwise the big ratings pullers were stuff like Family Guy, Futurama (before it went to Comedy Central), and their original programming.

Yeah, I realize you don't like it, and to be honest, I think most of the original programming on Adult Swim is terrible...but the majority of viewers don't agree, and so that's what AS is going to put on.

Besides, remember, as others have mentioned, anime has a couple of things against it from the start. One, it's still a niche market. Not as much as it was in the mid-80s or 90s when it was still called "Japanimation" and you were lucky to find a single shelf of it at a video store, but it's still nowhere near mainstream. Two, most anime fans are dub-haters through and through, no matter how well-treated and fantastically done it is. Naruto and Bleach, probably the best anime dubs since Cowboy Bebop, are perfect examples of this. Go on any anime site and see what people say about the dubs of those two shows. And you can forget about AS showing any anime subtitled. It is just not going to happen, ever.

Three, most anime is long and has arcing storylines and whatnot. Example, Bleach. Miss a couple of episodes of Bleach, and you'll be lost as to what's going on. For the most part American viewers tend to favor self-contained stories. Basically you can watch an episode, maybe miss a couple, but it doesn't matter. This is probably why Cowboy Bebop does so well. It has a large storyline to it overall, but for the most part, each episode is its own adventure and doesn't have much of a bearing on the next episode. It's not a commitment like other anime.

And finally, most people who watch AS seem to prefer just comedy in general. While some of the anime they've shown has comedy in it, they're not comedy series.

And yeah. That's basically it.

[Stephen]

Just figured I would toss this in. I stopped reading the note when I saw...

WHY DO YOU HATE ANIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will simply share this.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

ShatterheartArk, that is pure comedy gold.
Thanks!

[Blitzkrieg1701]

A wide variety of comments to make here...

True, but there's a problem with this theory, and it's the same problem that plagues a lot of situations like this.

If people stop watching the crappy anime on Sci-Fi, then the executives will be likely to think, "It is apparent that people do not like anime, so we won't show it any more."

On the other hand, if people continue watching the crappy anime on Sci-Fi, then the executives will think, "People love this! Let's get more anime like this!" and they then continue to show crappy anime.

It's a problem that continues to exist for things like this. Do you support the crap, and hope that eventually something good will come out of it? Or do you reject the crap, and hope that the good stuff won't go away because of it?

I dunno. I don't really even watch TV, so...I guess in the end I'm not watching it either way. XD]

I think you answered your own question here. The whole concept of an anime block on a network is rapidly becoming outdated, so the question of weather or not to support them is kind of pointless. Since the fanbase is migrating en masse to DVDs and the internet anyway, it won't be long until anime getting on American TV becomes redundant.

If one had bothered to read up on the original deal with Ani-Monday one would have seen that indeed the deal was with Manga and Starz.I think
ANN or someone had it posted when Ani-Monday was first announced.I know I read it somewheres that Sci Fi had a deal with Starz.
Actually they are going to be showing two new OVAs in the next several weeks: PSYCHIC WARS and VAMPIRE WARS.PSYCHIC WARS will air this coming Monday between the series finale of Tactics and the premiere of
Tokko.
VAMPIRE WARS will air in two weeks before eps. 2 and 3 of Tokko.

Um... Vampire and Psychic Wars are perhaps the greatest esamples of SciFi just not giving a rip about the anime they show. Can you honestly imagine some programing exec watching either of those and saying "YES! That's EXACTLY the kind of programing that we need!" or any hordes of dedicated fans demanding that SciFi show them? I doubt most people would question my assumption that they just needed SOMETHING they hadn't showed yet to fill up half the Ani-Monday block.

What Etoh said. It's not that Adult Swim views anime as less profitable, it's that it IS less profitable. Cowboy Bebop is pretty much the only anime that's really set their ratings on fire. Otherwise the big ratings pullers were stuff like Family Guy, Futurama (before it went to Comedy Central), and their original programming.

Yeah, I realize you don't like it, and to be honest, I think most of the original programming on Adult Swim is terrible...but the majority of viewers don't agree, and so that's what AS is going to put on.

Besides, remember, as others have mentioned, anime has a couple of things against it from the start. One, it's still a niche market. Not as much as it was in the mid-80s or 90s when it was still called "Japanimation" and you were lucky to find a single shelf of it at a video store, but it's still nowhere near mainstream. Two, most anime fans are dub-haters through and through, no matter how well-treated and fantastically done it is. Naruto and Bleach, probably the best anime dubs since Cowboy Bebop, are perfect examples of this. Go on any anime site and see what people say about the dubs of those two shows. And you can forget about AS showing any anime subtitled. It is just not going to happen, ever.

Three, most anime is long and has arcing storylines and whatnot. Example, Bleach. Miss a couple of episodes of Bleach, and you'll be lost as to what's going on. For the most part American viewers tend to favor self-contained stories. Basically you can watch an episode, maybe miss a couple, but it doesn't matter. This is probably why Cowboy Bebop does so well. It has a large storyline to it overall, but for the most part, each episode is its own adventure and doesn't have much of a bearing on the next episode. It's not a commitment like other anime.

And finally, most people who watch AS seem to prefer just comedy in general. While some of the anime they've shown has comedy in it, they're not comedy series.

And yeah. That's basically it.

Lots of good points here. One point you left about about the success of the in-house comedies on Adult Swim, though, is that they're CHEEP. Generally speaking, it's got to be easier for something like 12 oz. Mouse to justify its existence than Evangelion. I just can't picture the former costing more to produce than the latter cost to license.

As for the niche point, you're right, but it's as much a problem for AS as it is for anime fans. Since the interweb is making it easier for niche audiences to flourish, it's actually a sign of weakness that the networks need to appeal to broader, more forgiving audiences. Well... it WILL be a sign of weakness in a few years, anyway.

The best point, though, is the one you make about the shows themselves. I'll just say this as bluntly as possible: the reason Adult Swim hasn't had another hit to the degree of Cowboy Bebop is because they just haven't been able to find another anime that's anywhere near that good. This isn't their fault, it's because the anime industry in Japan is so atrophied and bankrupt of inspiration these days. I realize that's bordering on a totally seperate rant, and I'm sorry if I just derailed EVERYTHING, but that really is the ultimate problem AS is having. I like Bleach and Code Geass and all that just fine, but there's a reason the general public isn't tuning in: there's just too much better stuff on TV. Sadly, unless Adult Swim or some other network starts taking an active role in the actual production of anime, there's nothing anyone over here can do about that problem.

There, have I stirred things up bad enough?

[Roy Mustang]

Um... Vampire and Psychic Wars are perhaps the greatest esamples of SciFi just not giving a rip about the anime they show. Can you honestly imagine some programing exec watching either of those and saying "YES! That's EXACTLY the kind of programing that we need!" or any hordes of dedicated fans demanding that SciFi show them? I doubt most people would question my assumption that they just needed SOMETHING they hadn't showed yet to fill up half the Ani-Monday block.

I will quote what someone said Vampire Wars and Psychic Wars at animeontv e-mail group.

Wow, another not-quite-classic. I think when the Sci-Fi Channel were negotiating with Manga Entertainment for Noein, Tokko and Tactics that they went rummaging through Manga's closets, blew the dust off an old pile of junk and said "dudes, can we have these?" and Manga said OK. Seriously, I'm surprised they still have the license for some of these.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]
Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

[Doubleshadow]

Lots of good points here. One point you left about about the success of the in-house comedies on Adult Swim, though, is that they're CHEEP.

Look out! Blitzkreig swearing in Budgie! He must be really adamant.

(I wish I had Fish's photo posting skills now)

[MasterDias]

The best point, though, is the one you make about the shows themselves. I'll just say this as bluntly as possible: the reason Adult Swim hasn't had another hit to the degree of Cowboy Bebop is because they just haven't been able to find another anime that's anywhere near that good. This isn't their fault, it's because the anime industry in Japan is so atrophied and bankrupt of inspiration these days. I realize that's bordering on a totally seperate rant, and I'm sorry if I just derailed EVERYTHING, but that really is the ultimate problem AS is having. I like Bleach and Code Geass and all that just fine, but there's a reason the general public isn't tuning in: there's just too much better stuff on TV. Sadly, unless Adult Swim or some other network starts taking an active role in the actual production of anime, there's nothing anyone over here can do about that problem.

There, have I stirred things up bad enough?

Regarding inspiration and all of that, I don't think our own TV industry is doing any better than Japan's (maybe even worse). I mean, most of what Hollywood cranks out are formulaic shows as well. Granted, as an anime fan, maybe my tastes don't count very much in the "general public," but I think I can count the number of homegrown shows I actually care about on one hand.

Even ignoring cerebral series like Death Note or Paranoia Agent, I would have assumed anime action shows would have done reasonably well (regardless of arc plots and what have you). Do AS's viewer's just not care for action? I am honestly curious.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

In terms of intellectual creativity, I totally agree. After all, a major American network DID honestly believe that a sitcom staring the cavemen from those Geico commercials would be worth watching. What's more, I'm completely with you on Death Note and Paranoia Agent being smart and well written enough to deserve good ratings. I really think Kino's Journey deserves to have a massive following on some channel, too. The problem is, for every one show we can say good things about, there are about 20 brainless fanservice fests just waiting to smother it. What's worse: ask anyone who knows about the state of the industry and they'll tell you that this sort of anime is the only thing still making money in Japan, so they keep making more of it even though it's pretty hard to sell to mainstream western audiences. That's why I ragged on the Japanese industry the way I did, not because I think Hollywood is soooooo great.

Here's the other problem: from a purely TECHNICAL standpoint, 99% of TV anime just can't compete with a big budget American production. That especially hurts the action shows, where television budgets and production schedules just can't allow really fluid action on a regular basis. If you show most "normal" people an episode of Naruto or Bleach, they just see a lot of standing around, talking, the occasional blinding flash of superpower, and a few frames of punching/slashing on an endless loop. That's nowhere near as interesting as the action they can find on prime time, which is why they watch that instead and why AS has better luck with comedy. THAT'S why Cowboy Bebop did so well. Not only is is smartly written, but it LOOKS just as good as a "real" show.

Again, I'm straying dangerously close to ranting, and I apologize, but I still think think that Adult Swim or any other network honestly can't help getting poor ratings for anime if the anime simply isn't good enough.

[Maledicte]

Are there any good mystery anime series? AS might have more luck with those. I mean, look at the CSI spinoffs, people just eat them up, and there are about 200+ Conan episodes.

[Roy Mustang]

Even ignoring cerebral series like Death Note or Paranoia Agent, I would have assumed anime action shows would have done reasonably well (regardless of arc plots and what have you). Do AS's viewer's just not care for action? I am honestly curious.

Alot of the reason why those animes don't do so great on Adult Swim is two factors, a. people that have wanted to watch it, already have and b. a good number of people that do watch those Death Note and PA seen it on Adult Swim fix.

I'll just say this as bluntly as possible: the reason Adult Swim hasn't had another hit to the degree of Cowboy Bebop is because they just haven't been able to find another anime that's anywhere near that good.

I have to disagree that Cowboy Bebop was the only really big hit on Adult Swim, FLCL, FMA and as much I hate it say it Inu Yasha has had some pretty good ratings.

Also, The ratings for Death Note on Adult Swim fix have been around 200,000 to 300,000 and then add the ratings for when it airs on tv which have been in the low 200,000 and some times in the middle 300,000's range.

They are not great numbers, but they are not that bad.

Now this doesn't have anything to do with Adult Swim, but Cartoon Network, but the first season of Big O was a hit on Toonami.

Are there any good mystery anime series? AS might have more luck with those. I mean, look at the CSI spinoffs, people just eat them up, and there are about 200+ Conan episodes.

Sadly, Adult Swim tried that with Conan (aka: US name Case Close) and it failed big time. Adult Swim only had tv rights for Case Close for 52 eps and then they drop it.

[color="Red"]
[font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

[Sheenar]

I love Case Closed. I would've watched it more often if it wasn't on at 4 am...and then they kept moving it so then I had no idea when it was on.

[MasterDias]

Here's the other problem: from a purely TECHNICAL standpoint, 99% of TV anime just can't compete with a big budget American production. That especially hurts the action shows, where television budgets and production schedules just can't allow really fluid action on a regular basis. If you show most "normal" people an episode of Naruto or Bleach, they just see a lot of standing around, talking, the occasional blinding flash of superpower, and a few frames of punching/slashing on an endless loop. That's nowhere near as interesting as the action they can find on prime time, which is why they watch that instead and why AS has better luck with comedy. THAT'S why Cowboy Bebop did so well. Not only is is smartly written, but it LOOKS just as good as a "real" show.

Understandable enough.

Sadly, Adult Swim tried that with Conan (aka: US name Case Close) and it failed big time. Adult Swim only had tv rights for Case Close for 52 eps and then they drop it.

I love Case Closed. I would've watched it more often if it wasn't on at 4 am...and then they kept moving it so then I had no idea when it was on.

Conan was sort of doomed from the start. It was too "adult" for Toonami, but too "childish" for Adult Swim's viewers. But I think it could have potentially done better than it did.
Although, I've gotten the feeling that the average anime fan doesn't really care for mystery series regardless.

Alot of the reason why those animes don't do so great on Adult Swim is two factors, a. people that have wanted to watch it, already have and b. a good number of people that do watch those Death Note and PA seen it on Adult Swim fix.

The ratings for Death Note on Adult Swim fix have been around 200,000 to 300,000 and then add the ratings for when it airs on tv which have been in the low 200,000 and some times in the middle 300,000's range.

I wasn't actually trying to single those two series out in particular. I was just giving general examples off the top of my head.
Adult Swim fix has only been around a few years anyway, so any sort of ratings conflicts wouldn't apply to series before a certain point.

[Roy Mustang]

I wasn't actually trying to single those two series out in particular. I was just giving general examples off the top of my head.
Adult Swim fix has only been around a few years anyway, so any sort of ratings conflicts wouldn't apply to series before a certain point.

Sorry about that. The first part of that I said was a reply to yours, the rest of it was to Blitzkrieg1701 on there has been some titles that have been hits on Adult Swim other then just Cowboy Bobop.

I just forgot to quote it.

[font="Book Antiqua"]
[color="Red"]Co. Roy Mustang[/color][/font]

[inuyasha89]

Im kind of torn here. I love a lot of animes, but i love the family guy/ robot chicken/ etc stuff too. So either way im happy, I just wish that Adult Swim would show some different animes for once. I mean, I like FMA and all, but I wouldn't mind seeing Initial D on tv finally.(It was originally supposed to be on adult swim a few years ago, but they ended up not picking it up at the last minute) Then again, what I'd really like is a television channel that showed subs, so that I could watch good dubs on adult swim, and good subs of shows that are dubbed poorly.

Oh, and btw: I Loved Detective Conan. I was very disappointed when they canceled it. But then again, crime solving has always interested me...which could be why I was such a big fan of the Gyakuten Saiben series of games.

[Sakaki Onsei]

*whistles*

Sci-Fi channel, Monday nights. That's all I need.

*whistles*

^_^;;;

[inuyasha89]

[quote="Sakaki Onsei (post: 1228722)"]*whistles*

Sci-Fi channel, Monday nights. That's all I need.

*whistles*

^_^]

Ohhh yeahhh, I keep forgetting that they do that....WHY CAN'T THEY ADVERTISE ON COMPETING NETWORKS!!!!:bang: