Anime shows offensive to Chritianity?

[Nate]

I personally also think it's dangerous because you've got those nutty people who run around mixing reality with fantasy thinking that the two worlds must co-exist or something.

It isn't really that so much]What's a girl in this kind of situation to do, anyways?[/QUOTE]
The Bible says to honor your parents, and I think if they're saying not to watch that kind of stuff, there's only one thing you can do. Explain to them that it's fictional magic, that you will not be led into the occult, and that you know the difference between reality and fantasy. If that doesn't work, then I think you'll just have to "wait it out." Anime and movies and stuff are fun and enjoyable, but you shouldn't disobey your parents just to have fun. Wait until you're out on your own to watch/read those things.

And another question of mine is this: is there really a difference between good (white) magic and dark (black) magic? And can any good main character lawfully use the former?

Depends on the series. But for the most part "white" magic is classified as healing and holy magic, and "black" magic is classified as destructive magic. For the most part any character is capable of using any type of magic, though if you have a problem with good characters using black magic, again, that's your personal convictions and you should stay true to them.

[AsianBlossom]

All right; thanks so much everybody!

[Majic]

Witch Hunter Robin

What I am wondering is...what anime shows do you all consider to be offensive to the Christian religion?

Funny, because I was just commenting on it in this thread.

While it's true that some people can be offended by pretty much anything, I think Witch Hunter Robin can reasonably be considered anti-Christian in its message.

Why, you ask, with a questioning look in your eye? After all, stories or fairy tales about witches aren't necessarily anti-Christian, are they?

Nope. Definitely not.

However, WHR goes the extra mile. To wit:

[spoiler]As the story develops, the premise emerges that witches are essentially superior to "normal" humans, and that the entire foundation of Christian prohibitions against witchcraft and persecution of witches was "jealousy".

In almost so many words, Christianity is portrayed as a demonic, racist, bloodthirsty religion founded on lies and dedicated to waging a genocidal war against God, witches (blessed by God) and all that is good. [/spoiler]
Having watched it fairly recently, I found that aspect of the story rather hard to overlook.

Anyway, if you can handle that, then you shouldn't have a problem with Witch Hunter Robin.




P.S. All that said, I personally thought it was a pretty good series.

[Roy Mustang]

Witch Hunter Robin


Funny, because I was just commenting on it in this thread.

While it's true that some people can be offended by pretty much anything, I think Witch Hunter Robin can reasonably be considered anti-Christian in its message.

Why, you ask, with a questioning look in your eye? After all, stories or fairy tales about witches aren't necessarily anti-Christian, are they?

Nope. Definitely not.

However, WHR goes the extra mile. To wit:

[spoiler]As the story develops, the premise emerges that witches are essentially superior to "normal" humans, and that the entire foundation of Christian prohibitions against witchcraft and persecution of witches was "jealousy".

In almost so many words, Christianity is portrayed as a demonic, racist, bloodthirsty religion founded on lies and dedicated to waging a genocidal war against God, witches (blessed by God) and all that is good. [/spoiler]
Having watched it fairly recently, I found that aspect of the story rather hard to overlook.

Anyway, if you can handle that, then you shouldn't have a problem with Witch Hunter Robin.




P.S. All that said, I personally thought it was a pretty good series.

Yeah, but you have to remember that Robin is catholic. The witch term is not like a real witch, but like a mutant with powers.

Roy Mustang

[Majic]

Which Witch Is Which?*

Yeah, but you have to remember that Robin is catholic. The witch term is not like a real witch, but like a mutant with powers.

Well yeah, but...

[spoiler]In the anime, they don't make any distinction between the two, and effectively define witches as mutants with powers.

The "historical retrospectives" in particular decry the "witch genocide" and point directly at events like the Salem Witch Trials and earlier centuries of witch-burning and persecution stretching back to ancient times -- when purportedly the evil humans attacked the nice witches.

So I think suggesting Robin isn't a "real witch" because she was raised as a Catholic doesn't really change the fact that witches are portrayed sympathetically, Christians are portrayed as evil mass-murderers and witchcraft -- mutant or otherwise -- is ultimately rationalized and glorified. [/spoiler]
In light of all that, I sincerely believe even the most forbearing and worldly Christian would be fully justified in taking at least modest umbrage at such a portrayal of Christianity, because that's some pretty harsh stuff to lay on anyone.

But that's just my opinion.

YMMMV (Your Magical Mileage May Vary).




*Sorry, it's hard to resist.

[rocklobster]

Uh, That sounds like presumption. And that's totally not what you're supposed to do.

[Fish and Chips]

Witches are portrayed sympathetically? Were the two of us watching the same series? I've seen witches in that series try to cut people to ribbons, gleefully crush them, set them on fire, mess with their minds, freak them out, playing God with their lives, and all manner of other things to their fellow man. And not to mention the Catholics seem to prefer taking witches alive over dead.

Try reversing those roles.

[termyt]

The only danger that exists is the same danger that exists in many forms of entertainment, that is, if it causes you to want to sin. I know it doesn't for you, but if it causes another person to become interested in the occult for real, then that person needs to stay away from it.

I think it is also worth saying here that, if you have some influence over a person who is lead to sin from, well, anything - not just fantasy magic and such, then it is also a good idea for you to abstain from such things for the sake of your brother or sister. I would not want to cause a friend to sin so that I may be entertained.

That need not be a strict abstinence, but at least refrain from it in the other person’s presence and encourage this friend to participate in other activities or watch other shows, and whatever.

[RK Ryune]

Having struggled for most of my teen years with the issue of "are magic and fantasy inherently evil", I would like to say that while certain aspects of stories like Narnia, Lord of the Rings, the Final Fantasy series (Kingdom Hearts incl.) and just about any other fantasy series you can think of COULD be considered objectionable, one has to remember that it IS fantasy, eg it isn't real.

That said, fiction is only harmful when it encourages you to ignore the things that are important. Remember "Rack, Shack and Benny"? (y'know, from Veggie Tales). It wasn't that the chocolate Bunnies themselves were evil, it was that everyone forgot that bunnies are nice, but God is what is most important. If fantasy is making you think "ooh, I wanna try that there firaga spell! *concentrate concentrate*" then you should probably take a break from it. However, fantasy can be an enjoyable past time, so long as you remember the real world and don't go TOO far into fantasy

As someone also said, pray about it. God knows all the answers, and he also knows what is a good limit, if there is one. In fact, just praying in general is a good idea. I know it's sometimes more convenient to ask semi-strangers in an online forum (because you get quicker results) but we don't know exactly what is RIGHT for you like God does

And as for the parents issue... I didn't really figure this out until a few months ago (and lol, I'm 20), but your parents aren't out to get you or shelter you. Just because they don't understand or "approve" of a hobby of yours doesn't mean its "wrong." Because, even though you should honor them and respect them, your parents are not perfect and they're not always right. If something is really important to you, talk to them, maturely and calmly. When I was your age, I had to explain Inuyasha to my parents. They immediately went "OH NOES REINCARNATIONS AND DEMONS, THIS IS A SINANIME," but after some explanation of what the series is really about (overcoming evil in spite of personal issues, the power of team work, you're not alone, etc) they were a lot more understanding - and have even watched a few episodes with me... which, after some wheedling, they have admitted to liking and even watching a few times while I was away at college.

Parents can be tricky, but sometimes you just gotta realize that they're not always going to approve of what you do, and if it isn't severely detrimental to your well-being (spiritual or otherwise) then it merits explanation and discussion. And believe me, when you're honest with your parents, they are MUCH MUCH MUCH more inclined to trust you and give you greater freedom. I learned this the hard way.

as far as offensive goes, I agree that what is and isn't offensive is up to you. I find that the Final Fantasy/Kingdom Hearts series (which freaks my parents out) actually tends to lean towards Christian values. I haven't really encountered any that offend me outright (except for that-of-which-we-shall-not-speak Evangelion), as i tend to be pretty open about anime, keeping in mind that Japan and Christianity kinda don't go together (yet ). The only thing that offends me in regards to anime has to do with the fandoms and fanfiction - yaoi-pairings, taking characters out of context, blatant christain bashing, explicit sexual content (which has a bad habit of randomly manifesting in a seemingly innocent story... just BAM! you are now being exposed to porn without warning of any sort - no "there is explicit content" disclaimer or nothing) - which is why it's probably better to avoid fandoms than the shows themselves.

As for Harry Potter? To each his own, I guess. I'm not offended by it, I just think it's overrated tripe.

Wow, long post O_o

[Jih]

Um, with that being said, I concur. Even though there are some shows that examine religion skeptically or critically it really doesn't bother me. Honestly I can't see how Eva is...O wait I'll be censored if I continue on that vein. Anyway, I think that most directors associated with anime are truly trying to captivate their visions and well, if that involves a character who hates God (The Laughing Man, Ghost in the Shell SAC) then so be it. I also think that directors take Christian symbolism as a way to create suspense within their audience (seen especially in Eva or even AKIRA). I really don't find there to be an overly offensive anti-Christian animes out there, but that's just me.

[Aleolus]

That's the plot to Ninja Ressurection, not Ninja Scroll. They are totally unrelated.

Well, whatever. It completely offended me, and I hope to never see anything like that again.

[Stephen]

Um, with that being said, I concur. Even though there are some shows that examine religion skeptically or critically it really doesn't bother me. Honestly I can't see how Eva is...O wait I'll be censored if I continie on that vein.

If someone goes into stuff on NGE without knowing the rules...a mod would probably say hey, be sure to check the DND list or the FAQ. For someone to willfully mention it...strikes me as trying to test the leadership of a site. "I'll be censored" The sites free to use and enjoy, if you don't like the rules the site runs under there are other sites to join.

[Ingemar]

While true, not everyone has the inclination to read a sticky thread unless it is somehow rammed down their throats like a brussel sprout.


As for my input,
1. Japanese people, who generally do not know/care about Christianity are prone to do portray stupid or offensive things about it.
2. Given this, it is the Christian's prerogative to be offended by it... or not.

[Sheol777]

If someone goes into stuff on NGE without knowing the rules...a mod would probably say hey, be sure to check the DND list or the FAQ. For someone to willfully mention it...strikes me as trying to test the leadership of a site. "I'll be censored" The sites free to use and enjoy, if you don't like the rules the site runs under there are other sites to join.

Well, I have made it no secret that I like NGE. I know I am new here and all, but I think people are "testing" the leadership because they do not understand the rule.

I mean, I have spoken to a few about this...some in leadership. The only answer I get is, "It caused arguments in the past." Frankly there are many anime discussed here that rival or even surpass NGE for questionable materal. But am I to believe that since it once started an argument, that we "throw the baby out with the bathwater" and never speak of it again?

All this being said, I love this site. I do not wish to join another site over this. I wish to remain here. I don't think a logical explanation is out of sorts here for why a whole anime series is banned from discussion.

...and mind you, I am not specifically discussing NGE specifically as far as the story goes in this post. Just the fact that it has been banned. I think being told to "take your business elsewhere" is a bit much for someone questioning a rule that seems out of sorts.

[EireWolf]

Well, I have made it no secret that I like NGE. I know I am new here and all, but I think people are "testing" the leadership because they do not understand the rule.

The moderators welcome respectful PMs about things like this. But trust us]I mean, I have spoken to a few about this...some in leadership. The only answer I get is, "It caused arguments in the past." Frankly there are many anime discussed here that rival or even surpass NGE for questionable materal. But am I to believe that since it once started an argument, that we "throw the baby out with the bathwater" and never speak of it again?[/quote]
No... If it "once" started an argument, that would be trivial. But it started arguments over and over and OVER... hence the rule. There are plenty of anime sites (and Christian sites, for that matter) that allow flaming and nasty debates... CAA is not one of them, and the vast majority of the members like it here because of that.

All this being said, I love this site. I do not wish to join another site over this. I wish to remain here. I don't think a logical explanation is out of sorts here for why a whole anime series is banned from discussion.

We're glad you're here, and we're glad you like it here! I hope I've answered your question satisfactorily, but in the future this kind of thing really should be taken to PM. And if you're not satisfied with the answer you're given, you're welcome to ask for clarification in another PM.

Thanks for understanding!

[Fish and Chips]

But is talking about controversial/banned Animes through PMs permissable? I'd like to think so.

As for my three cents, which I've probably already cast in here, I wouldn't consider anything as specifically offensive to Christianity unless it went out of it's way to make a point against it. In my mind, there's a clear difference between magic in a fantasy/alternate universe or Christian code-words being swapped back and forth in Evangelion as opposed to, say, "Ilpalazzo gives a rant condemning Christianity as the worst scourge to afflict the Earth" (taken from the CAA Excel Saga review). And not to confuse negative portrayls of Christians with attacking Christianity if the image is accurate. An Anime featuring the Spanish Inquisition (how unexpected) in a prominant role should be expected to show its members as the fanatical, sadistic zealots they really were.

[Mithrandir]

But is talking about controversial/banned Animes through PMs permissable? I'd like to think so.

As long as you aren't harassing every user by PMing them all asking if they wanna talk about something on the DND list, we don't care all that much. If you know someone is an Evangelion fan and want to PM them about it, go ahead. We want to keep bitter arguments and debates off the PUBLIC areas of the site.

If you and other members want to have a debate stuff over PM, please feel free.

[Fish and Chips]

If you know someone is an Evangelion fan and want to PM them about it, go ahead.

That's what I was looking for, thanks.

[MomoAdachi]

I'm a die-hard Sailor Moon fan and non-Christian, but some of the themes in S always made me a little squeamish, particularly the whole Messiah thing. That's probably why I consider S my least favorite season(my faves are probably the second arc of R and SuperS).

[GrubbTheFragger]

<_<.............>_>....ahhhhh GRAVEDUG'D!!!!!!! *walks out silently* Sorry had to. But yeah Jess lets not gravedig (go into the vaults and rebirth a thread that is more than a few months old) specially with such touchy thread such as this one.

[minakichan]

YAY TOPIC REVIVAL.

Death Note has some somewhat anti-Christian elements-- the "Laws of Life" which state that humans do not go to heaven or hell, divine justice doesn't exist, death is the great equalizer, people don't come back to life (despite the fact that people DO get resurrected in the pilot). These are pretty hard to overlook. At the same time, although you could interpret it as a nihilist "morality is relative" message, I think there are some points that can at least coincide with Christian morality-- yes, there seem to be moral grays in the series, but at the same time, Light's path is clearly designated as evil (even if that designation is made by moral hypocrites), so Ohba is a little contradictory there.

The Christian imagery throughout the series (crucifixes and gothic-not-Gothic imagery, apples, the Creation of Adam and the Pieta, God imagery, the Mary-like figure in the final chapter, Light even portrayed as a Christlike figure) is pretty powerful, and it's clearly not used to promote Christianity or anything. I think the symbolism is very beautiful, and it doesn't have to be interpreted as anti-Christian in the same way that Christ imagery in The Old Man and the Sea isn't necessarily blasphemous either.

[Fish and Chips]

people don't come back to life (despite the fact that people DO get resurrected in the pilot).

When was this again? I've read the whole of the Manga and can't remember anyone coming back from the dead.

[minakichan]

It was in the pilot chapter, the one-shot short story that was in Jump a couple years before the series. Ryuk is the only recurring character in the one-shot, and he introduces both the Death Note [SPOILER] and the Death Eraser, which can bring back those killed by the Note.[/SPOILER]

The tone is quite different from the series, but I actually really liked it immensely =D even better than the series in some aspects. But I might be biased because I read the one-shot first.

[Fish and Chips]

It was in the pilot chapter, the one-shot short story that was in Jump a couple years before the series. Ryuk is the only recurring character in the one-shot, and he introduces both the Death Note [SPOILER] and the Death Eraser, which can bring back those killed by the Note.[/SPOILER]

The tone is quite different from the series, but I actually really liked it immensely =D even better than the series in some aspects. But I might be biased because I read the one-shot first.

Gah, sorry, I misread "Pilot" as "Plot." Though it sounds more like a prototype one-shot than a prequel/pilot chapter.

[minakichan]

Gah, sorry, I misread "Pilot" as "Plot." Though it sounds more like a prototype one-shot than a prequel/pilot chapter.

Hm, that's essentially what it is, I suppose. I think the words are interchangeable when referring to manga one-shots that later get turned into series. I imagine that Death Note the series only came about because the one-shot was popular and people liked the concept (I remember thinking "Dang, someone needs to make a full series out of this story!" when I read it), but that's mere speculation.

[SolidÃ…rmor]

"Ghost Stories" -- the English dub only, not the original Japanese series -- might be offensive to Christians, if you consider an over-the-top, bible-quoting, you're-going-to-Hell-in-a-handbasket evangelical teen as a main character.

There are certainly other objectionable parts to Ghost Stories, although mostly of the kind that only make sense to those who understand the double entendres anyways, but some Christians may (perhaps justifiably) take umbrage at this character in particular.

I would have to disagree on this one, I have this series and from at least my point of view this character is all in all comedic value only. You can't take Momoko seriously at all. Is she over the top yes, but when you take into account that Monica Rial who I actually got to talk to about this character at Anime-Fest said that Chris Patton, Hilary Haag, Greg Ayres, and herself had full add-lib in the dubbing of this anime. Monica wanted Momoko to be over-the-top that you just had to laugh at her, and that it wasn't meant to offend anyone.

[desperado]

I know it is do not discuss but I'm just mentioning it for the fact that NGE is the ONLY anime that made me sick to my stomach, literally feeling dirty. You may like it fine but I am just saying that is was the only one that did that to me.

All I have to say on that matter. Most animes I have stopped watching have been due to other reasons such as how they portray magic/spirits or graphic content (gore/sex) (for example I stopped watching several of this seasons magic based anime shows because they seemed very wrong.)

[Bobtheduck]

Depending on interpretation, one Do not discuss title could be viewed as attacking Christianity (to the point where the Hero is actually the anti-christ), from another view, it simply uses the Christian (and Kabbalist and Gnostic) elements as window dressing.

Hmm... There's one show I watched about this guy in a dorm for crazy people at college, and some of the crazy people are evangelistic Christians... They're portrayed as complete creepy psychopaths. I've seen that from time to time...

Ironically, S is probably my favorite season despite the "messiah" stuff... But there have always been biblical allusions in the Sailormoon Series, and she generally "dies" to save mankind and comes back, but it's really syncretism because they mix in plenty of shinto and buddhism. Again, strangely enough, I don't feel that way about Harry Potter... I find the death and resurrection (and taking on of sin, and dying to protect someone, and such) to be more directly biblical, and not window dressing or syncretism, Dumbledore news notwithstanding... Hmm...

As for Final Fantasy, they honestly differ from game to game... I personally find FFX [button="spoiler about FFX"]to integrate a pretty direct knock on the Judeochristian idea of sacrifice to cover sin, as **it just comes back** and it offers **false hope.** The Yevon group is very obviously the Catholic church, and Yevon himself seems to be a Jesus type figure. Despite the otherwise incredible story, this game in particular has always made uncomfortable when it came to those things, and Final Fantasy Tactics is quite the same way, only they veiled the connections to the Catholic church even more thinly. Thing is, Yevon was NEVER said to be EVIL per se, just that he did something that made sense at the time and caused problems for everyone after him, and the organization that sprung up out of his actions is shown to be controlling, manipulative, and evil, even mostly dead, but never released from this world... [/button]

I didn't see that in any of the other Final Fantasy games, though. Spirits within and Final Fantasy 7 were about the Gaia theory (named differently in FF7, but directly in Spirits Within) which is a pseudoscience religion (that a former vice president and presidential candidate was a part of) that basically says the earth has a spirit and we all come from it and go back to it... There is a very small Christian reference in FF6 (Madonna, which would make Terra a Christ figure, except she never actually exhibits any other links to Jesus) For the most part, not counting 10 and tactics, the Church is actually presented in a positive light...

[minakichan]

Thanks a lot, minakichan. I guess I'm starting to understand now -- so even with the use of all of this Christian imagery the manga is not necessarily blasphemous? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think not. After all, lots of Western cartoons/comics/movies/etc carry worst messages than lots of mangas.

Once again, I'm really sorry for "gravedigging" an old/forgotten topic!!

Huh? Sorry, I don't quite understand what you're saying. Um, concerning my Old Man and the Sea example-- it definitely uses Christlike imagery, particularly in the old man's injuries and such, but there's nothing really anti-Christian about it; that's to say, it's certainly not making a statement at all about religion. The Christian imagery is just to accentuate the character's plight and his nobility or whatever, just to make it more symbolic. Old Man and the Sea doesn't really have any particularly wrong or offensive messages in it (at least, if my memory serves me correctly and I haven't totally misinterpreted some theme in it). (The only thing the book's truly guilty of is torturing millions of high school students =D.) So I don't necessarily believe there is anything wrong with its use of symbolism.

[Shadowalker]

Thankfully, I haven't actually seen, or watched, many animes that I would consider offensive to Christianity... at least not beyond a choice episode or two. I've heard of animes that, from the broader description of them and spoiling of their plot, are offensive to Christianity, but they are rare, and what I heard from them is enough to turn me off from even watching them.

That being said, when I hear the words "offensive to Christianity", I think "direct or thinly veiled attack on God, Jesus Christ, the Christian faith, and/or belief in God".

Anime can, and does, contain a lot of material that may run contrary to some Christian beliefs and viewpoints (such as yaoi, yuri, incest, etc...), but they don't explicitly attack God, Jesus Christ, the Christian faith, and/or belief in God either.

That's the key line in the sand for me.

I did find a choice episode or two of Full Metal Alchemist to be offensive to Christianity, but the vast majority of the episodes were fine, in my view.

Some animes also have premises that can seem a bit blasphemous (such as how anime has a lot of presumed goddess characters - Belldandy, Haruhi, Haruka in Noein, etc...), but as long as you remember that this is fiction with a most tenuous bond with the real world, it's not too bad.

That's my take, anyway.