Bobtheduck wrote:Hmm... Yeah, that hurts. It won't necessarily hurt enough to destroy Sony, though. Considering that based on the same amount of Time, PS3 is doing BETTER than the 360 did, and we still have Home, LBP, MGS4, FFXIII, FFXIII vs, Lair, and a total of 40+ exclusives on the horizen...
It's sad, but I'm not too worried.
ikimasu wrote:
Bobtheduck wrote:Hmm... Yeah, that hurts. It won't necessarily hurt enough to destroy Sony, though. Considering that based on the same amount of Time, PS3 is doing BETTER than the 360 did, and we still have Home, LBP, MGS4, FFXIII, FFXIII vs, Lair, and a total of 40+ exclusives on the horizen...
It's sad, but I'm not too worried.
Bobtheduck wrote:Huh... Ok.
*sigh*
Whatever. It's funny, I think the people at CAA make me so fanboyish because they ride the sony hate train so much. I woudn't be so adamant about supporting the system I like if people didn't feel the need to bash it every other second. And I stand by what I said. I'm not that worried. It's a hit, but not one that will destroy the PS3. Not by a long shot. It was Metal Gear and Final Fantasy that launched the success of the Sony platforms the last 2 generations. Not Devil May Cry. Not Resident Evil. Not GTA, which came much later... Call that spin if you want. I'm looking at history, and history has proven that Sony starts small and ends big. They have a lot of good stuff coming, so I don't see this killing them even though it hurts. Oh, and thank you for being so mature about it.
Mr. SmartyPants wrote:No mgs4 has not been confirmed for the 360. Although I'm hoping! I don't want to blow 500/600 dollars for one game or two.
Mr. SmartyPants wrote:I don't want to blow 500/600 dollars for one game or two.
Tom Dincht wrote:It's amazing how your bring that up in almost every video game thread MGS4 is brought up.
I mean I agree with you, but.....well, it's just old news that Ps3's are expensive.
Price aside, even if the Ps3 was 200$ things aren't looking good in the land of Sony. I cross my fingers for something.
Yojimbo wrote:It's still a relevant point though regardless.
Nate wrote:For the record, Hironobu Sakaguchi says that FFXIII is being developed on the White Engine, which is multi-platform. So the possibility of FFXIII being on the 360 is very real. And given that Square-Enix has already stated their lack of confidence in the PS3 (concerning Kingdom Hearts 3), I'd say that we can probably take FFXIII off of the "exclusive" list.
Dyne wrote:You get what you pay for with a PS3. I know the price tag is very troubling to gamers, but considering whats in the box, its not overpriced.
Etoh*the*Greato wrote:Sony won by the games they had, not by their processing power. Companies are attracted to two things main things (if you ignore money greasing palms and deals and that sort of thing) when looking at where a game goes: Ease of programming and unit penetration. If there are a lot more units of one system it makes more sense to sell a big franchise to that system. Why? You'll be able to sell more units.
i... well. There was a rant about price in there too, but I think I came off too strong as it was. I didn't actually intend that to turn in to a massive rant. I'm... egh. I'm really sorry, guys.
Time magazine, Monday, Oct. 30, 2000
"Even before this Thursday's official launch, Sony has lost goodwill, not to mention sales, for PlayStation2 with its glitchy product rollout. The company's recent announcement that it was cutting the number of PS2s available on launch day by 50% was a cruel blow to parents who had promised Junior one of the first units. And it is a headache for the 20,000 retailers selling PS2s--many of which began taking orders six months ago. The stores are bracing for hordes of irate customers."There will be people lined up in front of the doors," sighs Dan DeMatteo, president of Babbage's Etc., the nation's largest specialty video-games retailer. Babbage's has prepaid orders from five times as many customers as it will have units for this week.
Sony won't explain what went wrong. Sony Computer Entertainment president Kazuo Hirai will say only that PlayStation2 is a "very complex machine that requires a lot of components." But the guessing in Japan is that the company botched the production of graphics chips.
No modem is included with PS2, which puts it behind Sega's Internet-ready Dreamcast. But PS2 does have one feature parents will appreciate: it is backward compatible, meaning it can play the original PlayStation's 800 existing games.
But many of the most eagerly anticipated titles, like Metal Gear Solid 2 and the Bouncer, won't be available until spring at the earliest.
The early word on the playing experience--outside of Sony's launch party--is not particularly enthusiastic. "There is nothing on the PS2 that I've seen that gave me that jaw-dropping feeling I got with the Sega Dreamcast last year," says Dan Clark, 29, CEO of a New Hampshire credit union and an active gamer. Madden NFL 2001 is good, he says, but no better than games currently available on Dreamcast.
Part of the reason for the underwhelming array of games, gamemakers say, is that PS2 is hard to program for. "The PS2 is definitely more powerful than Dreamcast," says John Carmack, the multimillionaire, ponytailed master gamer behind legendary shooters like Doom and Quake. "But it's less convenient to extract performance from it."
"The PlayStation2 doesn't live up to Sony's hype," says Carmack. "It's just a next-generation machine, and they were acting like they'd invented the steam engine."
But the biggest prize of all lies in turning gaming consoles into broad-ranging entertainment centers. Sony acknowledges this future by calling PS2 not a game console but a "computer entertainment system." And Sony, with its wealth of consumer-electronics devices and enormous movie and music businesses, may have the most to gain by branching out. Count on it to use PlayStation2 in the future as a platform for an array of synergistic nongaming applications, from editing digital movies made on Sony camcorders to downloading Sony-brand music and music videos.
"PlayStation2 seems to be no more than a DVD player that can play games," grumbles Mike Roberts, an 18-year-old gamer from Missouri who says he won't be buying a PS2. "It should be the other way around."
Bobtheduck wrote:Unreal 3 engine and Havok are also multi-platform, but Gears of War will never see the light of day on the PS3,[/url]
Those are entirely different. Both of those engines were designed to be licensed to other developers by companies who have histories of licensing their engines. Unless Square-Enix is throwing it's hat into the engine licensing ring, it is very different.Bobtheduck wrote:Capcom has never remained loyal to a platform, with the exceptions of the Megaman games in the 8 and 16 bit days, and DMC in the last gen. This is in line with what Capcom does. And it's still pretty scummy
Capcom is a company. They need to make money to survive. If doing what's best for your company in order to stay out of the red is scummy, then every company on the face of the earth is scummy.Bobtheduck wrote:That's 2 times they've lied and cheated their core audience. Capcom has lost a lot of my respect.
I hope you realise that this is the exact logic that is running through the minds of "Sony-haters" right now. Only for them it's about 12 times.Bobtheduck wrote: 1. Ignore the greasing of palms means we ignore many of the exclusives that Microsoft has scored...
Yes. Because a market penetration of 10 million units, and dev tools that are second to none have nothing to do with what system you decide to make games on. (Sarcasm, if you didn't catch it.)Bobtheduck wrote: 2. Sony is working hard on devving new tools to make it easier to dev for the PS3. They discussed the new set they were working on at GDC. It's called edge. They see a problem with difficulty in development, and they are trying to address it. Not being a programmer, I can't say whether that will be enough. Since I doubt anyone in this thread has ever programmed for a Sony system, and no one has touched Edge yet, no one here can really comment on it either, except that they realized it was difficult and are working to fix that.
I heard about this. It made me extremely happy to see that Sony is doing things to fix their mistakes. Sony had gotten used to designing things from a hardware perspective instead of a software perspective, and it earned them the wrath of the devs, which Sony rightly fears. This is the type of things Sony did when the original Playstation came out that made me excited about it. I hope to see more of it in the future.Bobtheduck wrote: 4. Sony understands that its games that sell the system. It has been out for 4 months, and honestly has a better lineup in that same time than the 360 did.
While this is true, I still to this day don't understand what good it does to compare the here and now to the past. When someone goes out to buy a console, they don't think , "Which console has a better game line-up at launch?". They think "What games do I want to play when I take it home today?".
Dreamcast v PS3/ 360 vs. PS3 comparison:
I could see this comparison back in the early 360 days, but not so much anymore. When the Dreamcast launched, internet play was entirely new to console gamers and had little to no bearance on what console they chose. Also, the Dreamcast didn't have a Gears of War, Crackdown, or Lost Planet. Dreamcast had some amazingly great games, but none of them sold like these. Also, DVD had already won the format war months before the PS2 came out. The DVD/Blu-ray comparison is rather invalid.BobtheDuck wrote:Actually, not identical because the PS3 is doing better than its opponent
Man, what? How can you say that? 360 has been trouncing the PS3 in sales since it launched.
For your reference, I am not responding to you because I hate Sony, or to irritate you. I do this because I think it is important that we as gamers think as consumers, not as fanatics who will follow their console of choice to the end.Mr. SmartyPants wrote:So if Sony wants to succeed, I say they have a tough battle. They are loosing some of their most popular franchises, and they seem to be loosing popularity. If they want to win, they need to do a total 180.
ikimasu wrote:Ok. Bobtheduck- To be clear, I called it spin because instead of discussing the topic at hand you diverted it to facts and numbers that really have nothing to do with this. To be honest,. reading your initial reply was like reading something that Sony's (or any company regarding their own console, for that matter) PR would say. Which is not something that anyone should be proud of.
Capcom is a company. They need to make money to survive. If doing what's best for your company in order to stay out of the red is scummy, then every company on the face of the earth is scummy.
I hope you realise that this is the exact logic that is running through the minds of "Sony-haters" right now. Only for them it's about 12 times.
Dreamcast v PS2/ 360 vs. PS3 comparison:
I could see this comparison back in the early 360 days, but not so much anymore. When the Dreamcast launched, internet play was entirely new to console gamers and had little to no bearing on what console they chose. Also, the Dreamcast didn't have a Gears of War, Crackdown, or Lost Planet. Dreamcast had some amazingly great games, but none of them sold like these. Also, DVD had already won the format war months before the PS2 came out. The DVD/Blu-ray comparison is rather invalid.
Man, what? How can you say that? 360 has been trouncing the PS3 in sales since it launched.
For your reference, I am not responding to you because I hate Sony, or to irritate you. I do this because I think it is important that we as gamers think as consumers, not as fanatics who will follow their console of choice to the end.
They are trying. They are already working to create better dev tools and have recently filed a patent to sell a PS3 with an 80GB HD in order to increase the perceived value.
I USED to be PC gamer, in addition to being a console gamer. I loved games on my computer, and there was a HUGE variety of games on it because pretty much anyone could make a game on the computer, but something happened when Wolfenstein hit... First it was Wolfenstein 3d, no biggie, a new idea, a game from first person. Then it was friends who told me that First person games would be the only games, because why would you want to play a game that didn't put you directly "into" the game... I also liked TBS games like Civilization. Then the RTS games hit... Games like Age of Empires... Warcraft... Starcraft... The billion and 10 FPS games... MMOs... Any and all freedom in the PC gaming world went to zero, as you essentially had 4 choices... RTS, FPS, American RPG, or MMO...
Etoh*the*Greato wrote:I bought my mac back in October and since I've been a thorough Mac fanatic. My PC died, and I didn't feel much reason to get it back together. I thought, well, all my gaming is console anyway. I'll be fine. Now, though, I miss my PC. I built it myself back in highschool, so obviously I have a lot of emotional attachment to it. I've recently started jonsing for all my old PC games and a few new ones. I'm gonna try and rebuild it for just that reason.
Bobtheduck wrote:No... I addressed the topic at hand, losing DMC4, and addressed the OTHER topic at hand, it being a massive blow to Sony.
Hmm... I disagree with you here. I think this went out of the realm of "what every company does." Besides, if they believe they've got a huge seller here, the top sellers create their OWN audience. MGS2 and FFX did for PS2, Halo did for Xbox, Gears did for 360... Of course, maybe they didn't have confidence in their own abilities? Hmm... I'd go on, but I don't want another _____ response.
Sony never promised to be less than 600 dollars... In fact, the only thing I can think of in this regard is the BC in Europe... Taking out the Emotion Engine was pretty scummy. I've been upset about this since it happened. Other than that, I don't see Sony "betraying" anyone in this whole mess.
Back in 2000, market penetration of DVD was still pretty low, overall. Not a lot of people had DVD players.
I will only say that it is very similar for PS3 to the early days of PS2, and this sort of thing happened in both of PS3's predecessors. There are different factors this time, like Gears and especially like the Wii, though I maintain that Wii created its own audience and that won't affect the next gen systems once prices drop. Yeah, I know Sony denies a price drop as severe as with PS2, but... Let's be honest, Sony isn't as stupid as people think... They need to make money, too... They need to get market penetration, so a price drop will hit, and eventually it will be below the 200 mark.
I'm referring to the same time periods. In its first four months, PS3 did better than 360 did in its first four months. In other words, it's catching up. Slowly, but it is catching up. Plus, the equivalent of Gear for the PS3 is still to come... It has some big titles that haven't hit yet. The huge sales behind the 360 didn't really start until gears.
Well, I guess it was my "thinking as a consumer" that moved me to Sony in the first place. I used to be a hardcore Nintendo fan. It was Final Fantasy 8/tactics and MGS that changed my mind. That was a fight among Sega, Sony, and Nintendo.
The "patent" wasn't a patent, it was a request to the FCC to alter their license. The license change was for a new antenna to fix problems with bluetooth on upcoming systems. The brief mention of the harddrive isn't proof of a new configuration, just something they put there to give themselves the option.
It is far too early in the game to proclaim doom and gloom. I'm by no means claiming victory yet, it's just that it isn't doing as bad as you say. This loss of DMC4 (which came AWFULLY close to the European launch...) isn't "the last nail" or anything like that. It's painfull, but not disastrous.
ikimasu wrote:The things Sony did to promote the PS1 to both devs and consumers were fantastic. Legendary even. Unfortunately success seems to make companies lazy.
XP can run most of the games that ran on 95. It has a built in emulator for previous windows Operating Systems.
I think this went out of the realm of "what every company does." Besides, if they believe they've got a huge seller here, the top sellers create their OWN audience.
Of course, maybe they didn't have confidence in their own abilities?
Etoh*the*Greato wrote:XP can run most of the games that ran on 95. It has a built in emulator for previous windows Operating Systems. Only one I could never get to work was a british native game.
Nate wrote:It hasn't gone outside the realm of what every company does. This has been around even in the days of NES. It's just that Nintendo used shady business practices to force companies to develop exclusively for the NES (the whole "two year exclusivity" deal they had going on). Even so, it wasn't until the Gamecube/PS2/Xbox era that multiplatform games really took off. There are tons of multiplatform games, I don't see how this is outside of the realm of normal business, I really don't.
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