Canon Mary Sues in Anime

[Puguni]

For those who don't know what Mary Sues are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

I was browsing around, when someone on some forum brought up the fact that there are Mary Sues even in anime. Reflecting on this, I think it's true.

One prime example, I think, is Miaka from Fushigi Yuugi. She's a crybaby, a glutton, a two-timer, gets bad grades and relatively useless. Yet she saves an alternate universe, and more than four guys are in love with her for reasons unknown. What? I guess it's similar to why Gatsby likes Daisy so much from the Great Gatsby. I kept having this sneaking suspicion that Watase Yuu is using Miaka as a Mary Sue.

Also, it could also be because Watase Yuu was a fledgling manga and she had to make something that sells to hormone crazy teenage girls.

There are also probably many more reasons, but I'd like some thoughts on this subject, not only on the one I just mentioned, but other potential Mary Sues/Gary Stus.

Don't chide me for being stupid or ignorant, because this is what I think. I know some real guys like Miaka for reasons unknown to me.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Miranda from D.Gray man serves as another.

Plot devices are great xD MacGuffins, Deus ex machima, etc. Gotta love em. xD

[ChristianKitsune]

Hmm.. wouldn't that be more like an "underdog becomes a super hero?" type thing?

You take an average person...and make them larger than life.
You do have a point though. It's kinda like, how a normal teenage boy can suddenly inherit powers that could kill a fully grown man...

[uc pseudonym]

The pedant in me would argue that "Mary Sue" is reserved for specific usages and that the type of thing you mean is simply wish fulfillment of the basest kind. You see it all the time in trashy romance or detective novels. Anime certain has its share of this as well. Not that this thread doesn't have a good point or can't have good discussion, I just would make that distinction.

No characters jump out to me immediately, actually. Readers are almost always invited to identify somewhat with the protagonist, but that's basic to literature. I only really object when it becomes ridiculous (or the character god-modes like your average Mary Sue).

Plot devices are great xD MacGuffins, Deus ex machima, etc. Gotta love em. xD

I'm particularly partial to McGuffins, myself. When an author proves that they've had something planned from the beginning, or you reread a cryptic conversation much later and it makes perfect sense, I'm always impressed. Unfortunately, it's all too easy to pretend you know what you're doing and make things up as you go.

[Radical Dreamer]

XDD Allow me to quote my recent favorite--er, scratch that--only favorite fanfiction:

[quote="Those Lacking Spines--a KH2 fanfic"]Sakura-Rose pointed the Keyblade in a straight line at our heroes, drawing it across the group in a threatening manner and smiling a pearly-white grin that spoke of overconfidence. “Halt, evil-doers! You’ll not live to terrorize any more innocent people under my watch!â€

[Debitt]

Miranda from D.Gray man serves as another.

O_o; She's definitely a cry-baby and a plot device maybe, but how is Miranda a Sue? I'd sooner award that title to Rinali.

[ChristianKitsune]

XDD Allow me to quote my recent favorite--er, scratch that--only favorite fanfiction:



(shout out to Myoti for introducing me to that wonderful work of art. XD)

That said, one Mary Sue that I've noticed is probably Alice, from Alice 19th. Not that it wasn't a cute series, or even that I didn't enjoy it to a point, but it's really really unrealistic. Of course, I'm not only talking about the magic aspect, but the relationship between Alice and Kyo. Also, from what I recall, we don't really see any of Alice's flaws. Really, we only see the flaws that lie in her sister. So yeah, I'd say she's a Mary Sue. XD Interesting that it's another Watase series, though. XD

XDDDD you might have a point there..*looks back at all 7 of my volumes of that series and blushes*

why wouldn't their relationship work?

[Radical Dreamer]

XDDDD you might have a point there..*looks back at all 7 of my volumes of that series and blushes*

why wouldn't their relationship work?

Well, it's mostly because she's an ordinary lower-classman high school girl who is attracted to an upper-classman bishounen high school boy, with whom she's barely exchanged three words, and said bishounen takes an interest in her over her older and prettier sister, with whom he's already good friends. XD In real life, how many times has that happened? XD I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the series, I read all of it and I liked it. It's just that there's no way it could happen in real life. XD Which is, of course, why it's a manga, and it's fantasy, and all that jazz.

[ChristianKitsune]

Well, it's mostly because she's an ordinary lower-classman high school girl who is attracted to an upper-classman bishounen high school boy, with whom she's barely exchanged three words, and said bishounen takes an interest in her over her older and prettier sister, with whom he's already good friends. XD In real life, how many times has that happened? XD I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the series, I read all of it and I liked it. It's just that there's no way it could happen in real life. XD Which is, of course, why it's a manga, and it's fantasy, and all that jazz.

ROFL!! SOOO TRUEE!! XDDDD THATS GREAT! ROFL!

[Lady Macbeth]

Future Trunks from Dragonball Z.

• Blood relation to one of the main characters, but most of the main characters aren't aware of his existence when he first shows up
• Comes from the future to change the past
• Appears - literally - out of thin air and disappears the same way
• Shows up and beats the toughest bad guy immediately
• All/Most of the cast like him right from the start, even without having a clue about who he is
• Goes toe-to-toe with the strongest of the main characters without phasing either of them
• Said strongest is highly impressed with his skills
• Gives out all kinds of information that is unknown to most of the world at the time
• Carries with him a cure for an incurable disease

Need I go on?

[ClosetOtaku]

Agreed that Miaka is a Mary Sue in the flesh, so to speak -- nothing really to recommend her, but everyone is head over heels for her -- and given that both Fushigi Yugi and Alice 19th are Yuu Watase stories -- maybe we have a pattern here...

Of course, the accusation could fit many anime where teenagers rise to save the world where the adults couldn't -- Stellvia, for example -- or even where a novice overcomes the hurdles to challenge the pros without paying the requisite dues -- Angelic Layer comes to mind -- it seems to be a limitation of the genre, as it is meant to appeal to the younger generation. Any time kids go off to defeat the planet-killing bad guys and then, in the next scene, are hanging around the same high school class, you have to kind of scratch your head and wonder.

[Radical Dreamer]

How could I have forgotten this one?

Kagome. You know, from InuYasha.

If ever there was a Mary Sue, she takes the cake. XD Ordinary high school girl stumbles upon a fantasy world in the past, and subsequently falls in love with the obvious hero of the show, whom she frees from some sort of curse-like bondage. Everyone else loves her, except, of course, the bad guys and the guy that she likes, who falls in love with her eventually anyways...and SHE is the only person that can save the world, with her super-powered arrows. XD

Something like that. XD

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I'm particularly partial to McGuffins, myself. When an author proves that they've had something planned from the beginning, or you reread a cryptic conversation much later and it makes perfect sense, I'm always impressed. Unfortunately, it's all too easy to pretend you know what you're doing and make things up as you go.

Likewise. Much credit to Hitchcock and his Directorial abilities. Vertigo had an amazing Macguffin. That one just made me implode from sheer awesomness.
[quote="Kokoro Daisuke"]O_o]
Eeehhh. Not gonna argue with the D.Gray-Man master. xD

[WrestlingOtaku]

While I do I agree with most of what you said, RD. I don't think you could count Kagome as a Mary Sue. According to the Wiki that Puguni, a Mary Sue is...

Mary Sue (sometimes shortened simply to Sue) is a pejorative term for a fictional character who is portrayed in an overly idealized way and lacks noteworthy flaws

While she is overly idealized, she does have a noteworthy flaw, mainly her temper. So I wouldn't count her.

[Rocketshipper]

Sometimes it seems like Juudai Yuki from Yugioh GX is a "Gary Stu". You've got this beginner kid, shuffled into the lowest level dorm at Duel Academy, who never seems to actually learn anything in class, and yet he goes around kicking the butts of every elite student and pro-duelist in the area, not to mention saving the world several times. And the show makes it clear that he was ALREADY that good at dueling before he even entered the school.

[Ratrace]

the only flaw the good guys have in yugioh is explaining pot of greed at least once an episode. Any lead male in Boy Meets 6 Girls, Who All fall in Love With Him Instantly Despite His Objections (Tenchi, Akito from Nadesico, etc)will probably fit. Or be a little thick, but not enough to that I can't mention them.

[Fish and Chips]

Ah yes, the age-old issue of Mary Sueism.

Mary Sues? In my fanfic?
It's more likely than you think.

Click here for a free Sue check.

Actually, it's quite entertaining to enter in legimate characters (Alucard, Edward Elric) and see their scores at the end. Although it goes to show you can still hold down a viable story even with Sues salted and peppered around. It's just not very common.

[TriezGamer]

... None of the examples here (at least, the ones I'm familiar with ... ) really strike me as good examples of Mary Sue.

Belldandy (Ah! My Goddess) is Mary Sue. Midori (Midori Days) is Mary Sue [albeit in a VERY odd circumstance]. Aoi (Ai Yori Aoshi) is Mary Sue.

Then again, maybe I just don't see Mary Sueism the same way as other people.

[bigsleepj]

Aren't all characters on some levels Mary Sues?

Probably not.

[Kaligraphic]

Ah, but, regarding Kagome, isn't an incurable temper a requirement for a main love interest? Because, y'know, strong guys always fall for abusive women who make their life a mess of pain in preference to nice, quiet, sensible women who aren't violently angry with them over every little thing.

[meboeck]

This may not be anime (yet) but WrestlingOtaku's avatar makes Zelos come to mind. He's rich, beautiful, and the Chosen one. All the ladies love him, but he feels despised because he's so special. And he's one of only two humans in the world who can use both magic and a sword. And did I mention he's vital to the success of the group despite the fact that

[spoiler]he's a traitor?[/spoiler]

He may not be flawless, but his flaws only get him more attention. And in the anime, he'll probably be just as much of a Mary Sue as in the game.

[teigeki_calesa]

Nope, I don't believe in Mary Sue ism if you ask me. It's just a convenient excuse to bash a character just because it doesn't suit the basher/s' tastes.

Besides, if you are to take away everything that makes a certain character a "Sue", as they say it, what will be left is a ho-hum entity that no one will even bother with.

[MyrrhLynn]

Well I think most authors would admit that they've written themselves (or characters that are similar to themselves) into their stories before. Part of it is because if you are writing about yourself it's a little easier since hopefully YOU know how a character based on yourself would react.

I never thought about this before but you are so right... maybe that explains why I've always hated most of the series mentioned so far. XD

Most chick flick movies are like this too though (the girl gets the guy even if he's way out of her league and of course he's the perfect boyfriend so they will live happily ever after).

And thanks for sharing that wikipedia article! I almost died when I read this line:
"Characters labeled as a "Mary Sue" have what are seen as exaggerated and annoying (and sometimes impossible) levels of superiority, especially in comparison to the other characters, to real people in similar situations, or both."

[Ingemar]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the most blatant Mary Sue in all of anime's existence:

Tohru Honda.

[WrestlingOtaku]

Oh, I guess I missed the part that said, "unreasonably romanticized flaws." So I guess that would make Kagome a Sue, Kali.

Yes, Zelos may be a Sue, meboek, but he's still my favorite character from the game. XD

[meboeck]

Oh, I guess I missed the part that said, "unreasonably romanticized flaws." So I guess that would make Kagome a Sue, Kali.

Yes, Zelos may be a Sue, meboek, but he's still my favorite character from the game. XD

I certainly don't dislike him as a charcter; it's just that he seemed to fit so many of the qualifications.

[mitsuki lover]

Another reason why Kagome cannot be considered a Mary Sue is that she is not a cry baby.She's pretty much anything BUT.Now Shippo on the other hand might
qualify for being a Gary Stu.
And speaking of which wouldn't Shinji be an obvious Gary Stu?I mean he whines a lot but still manages to save the world.

[RedMage]

Another reason why Kagome cannot be considered a Mary Sue is that she is not a cry baby.

Being a cry baby isn't a requirement for Mary Sue status.

If we're going to have this discussion, we need to decide if a Mary Sue is a character who's generally flawed and unappealing or at best dull yet is for some reason beloved and admired by other characters (Miaka in Fushigi Yugi, in the original example) or a character who's flawless beyond believability.

And yes, I have to agree with the choice of Kagome. She's an utterly vanilla character, used to create an "identifiability" factor for Inu Yasha's largely teenage and female audience....and to pander to said audience's shipping predilections, by having numerous male characters inexplicably interested in her. To make her marginally "useful" to the dramatic area of the storyline, they made her a one-trick-pony jewel shard detector...a niche that could have been filled by any random inanimate magic item. Tetsusaiga is as much a character as Kagome is, from that standpoint.

It's actually interesting to contemplate the potential Inu Yasha would have to be a superior show without Kagome.

[uc pseudonym]

Future Trunks . . . Need I go on?

Hah! That is excellent.

While she is overly idealized, she does have a noteworthy flaw, mainly her temper. So I wouldn't count her.

It seems to me that we need to clarify "flaw" significantly. Much of the time when people refer to a flaw they're really making a veiled compliment. I don't know how many times I've seen a flaw listed as "won't fight girls" which is really just a way of saying the character is honorable and getting out of a real flaw. In a similar way, I think that having a temper is an "acceptable flaw" in that some people actually think it's alright. Kaligraphic probably made this point better.

Belldandy (Ah! My Goddess) is Mary Sue. Midori (Midori Days) is Mary Sue [albeit in a VERY odd circumstance]. Aoi (Ai Yori Aoshi) is Mary Sue.

Perhaps you should give your definition of a Mary Sue, then. I'm curious (though I only know one out of your three).

Well I think most authors would admit that they've written themselves (or characters that are similar to themselves) into their stories before. Part of it is because if you are writing about yourself it's a little easier since hopefully YOU know how a character based on yourself would react.

To me, that's a legitimate way to write and shouldn't fall into this category. Ultimately we can't write more than we know, and we know everything through the lense of our own personality. Most of my characters could be compared to me in some way, but I'm never attempting to make an idealized version of myself.

If we're going to have this discussion, we need to decide if a Mary Sue is a character who's generally flawed and unappealing or at best dull yet is for some reason beloved and admired by other characters (Miaka in Fushigi Yugi, in the original example) or a character who's flawless beyond believability.

In my mind, the distinguishing factor is when the character is obviously a stand in for the author or the author's target audience. Hence Alucard (a god-moder if there ever was one) doesn't really apply, because he's too psychotic and abnormal for many to put themselves in his role.

If an average high schooler was bitten by a vampire and suddenly became like Alucard, on the other hand...

[RedMage]

In my mind, the distinguishing factor is when the character is obviously a stand in for the author or the author's target audience.

Here's the part that's often forgotten at the expense of the first, I think, and here's where Kagome definitely has to be pegged as a Mary Sue.