CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

After reading about this show which is coming to Cartoon Network soon, I'm having trouble understanding why it's so popular. From what I read, the plot revolves around Edward and his brother trying to bring their mother back to life after an already failed attempt injured Ed and his brother. And his brothers' soul is transported into a suit of armor? Huh? I guess I have two questions, 1) how is any of that related to alchemy, which from the definition I read was really just a primitive midevil "science"; sort of like chemistry. 2) how is this show so popular with CAA members, given the bible's stance on these sort of things (Deut 18:10)? Am I missing something in the plot descriptions I read? I haven't actually seen this yet so I can't comment on any specific content. Someone in here I'm sure can enlighten me

Because the brothers see throughout the series the evil side of alchemy. They understand the consequences of playing God. That is the message of FMA.

EDIT: Also, the brothers' quest is not to resurrect their mother, but to regain back their whole bodies.

Alchemy in FMA is really just a fantasy, pseudo-science. It has nothing to do with ancient alchemy except for the origins of certain symbols used in the series.

I agree with Lochaber. However, if you feel that FMA is not for you, then don't read/watch it.

Lochaber Axe wrote:EDIT: Also, the brothers' quest is not to resurrect their mother, but to regain back their whole bodies.

I see. Interesting. I guess they made a bad press release or something since my issue of Anime Insider magazine say they're trying to resurrect their mom.

They tried to resurrect her when they were children. That's why Edward lost his arm and leg, and Alphonse lost his body and was thereafter "bound" to the suit of armor. They're questing for the Philosopher's Stone so they can restore themselves.

Hmm...souls without bodies, resurrection. Think I'll pass, but thanks for the info.

What happened between the time they lost their limbs and the time of the anime?

I will watch it no matter what my mother says!!

They first have a sensei instruct them in Alchemy, and then go to Central to get their National Alchemist Licenses.

BTW-- Alchemy was a sort of medieval voodoo, and it was the beginning of our chemistry. The object of alchemy was to find chemicals that could transform a base metal into gold and bestow immortality of the alchemist. So, when is FMA gonna start on Cartoon Newtork?

Mangafanatic wrote:So, when is FMA gonna start on Cartoon Newtork?

Fullmetal Alchemist will air at 11:30pm, starting on saturday, November 6th on Adult Swim(taken from www.fullmetal-alchemist.com) ^^

So it will be on Adult Swim? Good...

So, when is FMA gonna start on Cartoon Newtork?

Well, Newtype USA (which rocks, btw) says October.

Hey mods, what is the CAA official stance on this show? I'm curious to know based on other anime already deemed "bad".

From what I understand, the reason shows are banned from conversation is becasue they have, in the past, cause GREAT controversy (example: NGE-- you know how riled up people get over that you. You either love it or you hate it.) The object of the do not discuss notice was, I thought, was to avoid massive verbal wars. A mod can probably give you a more complete answer, but there's my two cents.

Mangafanatic wrote:From what I understand, the reason shows are banned from conversation is becasue they have, in the past, cause GREAT controversy (example: NGE-- you know how riled up people get over that you. You either love it or you hate it.)

I understand why some anime is banned from conversation. That's not what I'm asking. I'm just wondering what the "official" word is on this one, good for christians or bad? NGE is on the official "bad" list, I'm assuming because of its (albiet unintentional) twisting of christian ideas and symbols. Given the Bible's view of witchcraft-like activity, I was curious to see if the mods deemed this show as good or bad.

awsam007, I think this is one of those Harry Potter things. Some folks are for it, some are against it. Trying to come up with an "official" verdict will only result in argument. One has to decide for themself whether or not to watch it - and you've already done that, which I admire you for. Sometimes its difficult to make decisions like that. ^_^

Kireihana wrote:awsam007, I think this is one of those Harry Potter things. Some folks are for it, some are against it. Trying to come up with an "official" verdict will only result in argument. One has to decide for themself whether or not to watch it - and you've already done that, which I admire you for. Sometimes its difficult to make decisions like that. ^_^

Point taken. I must say though, CAA has already come up with an official verdict on some anime already, so I guess I just feel it's a little hypocritical to call some anime "bad" and not others, especially it may depict things clearly not ok biblically. I won't even get into the whole Potter thing, since I'm sure some folks think that's ok as well. I thought the idea of the "bad" anime list was to warn people about anime which may be, for lack of a better term, harmful. I personally feel that's a very valid and honerable thing to have. We need sites like CAA to stand in the gap and tell what's dangerous, especially in today's ever more PC world. After looking at the scriptures again and watching the trailer for this show, I was disturbed and am puzzled as to why it's so popular in here. I guess I'm just suprised it's not on the "watch out" list. Oh well, I'm done with my two cents on this topic.

First of all, awsam, the trailer you saw was like most trailers - it was there to sell the violent youth masses on the show. I've seen quite a bit of episodes of FMA, and it has much more to it than that. You have to realize, FMA has been at the top of the Japanese viewing charts for most of this year and the characters are all on the top Bishie and Bishoujo lists. It has gained popularity on more than just the fact it's evil and violent.

Anway, here's a review of the first 30 episodes that I ran across and it's a really well-rounded review. It is not a CAA endorsed review, it is only a review that I found that I think covered the actual show's content in an unbiased manner:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/reviews/display.php?id=621

Now, as with all the members here you have the right to not watch this show. No one here will force feed you an anime you don't want to watch. The reviews from CAA try to remain unbiased and factual.

Awsam, I'm going to post an argument I've used before, because frankly, I'm too tired and busy to write another. This should cover my two cents.

[font=Verdana]In the church, people who watch anime or read mangas are looked at as if we’ve given over to Satan. Yet, these same people continue to own TV sets, go to movie theaters and listen to stations that aren’t Christian. When does it start and when does it stop? Do you know? Do I know? Judgement comes with a heavy price. Do you have the ability to judge? Have you been given this authority?[/font]


For with Christ there is freedom and no condemnation. In I John 4, it speaks of His love being perfected in us. Many here on CAA truly enjoy both the manga and anime of FMA. They enjoy it for it’s worth as a good piece of manga writing and development with great characters. That is their opinion. That is their right as believers to judge what goes in and what goes out. Not one of us can make that choice for anyone else, but ourselves.

You have the right to not watch FMA, but please don't blast CAA as if it should take a stand against FMA simply because you don't think, and I say "think" because you've never seen it and you've come to a conclusion based on your own inner workings and self-biased opinions - simply because you don't think you'll like it I really doubt all of CAA will follow your lead.

You have the freedom on this site to not watch it if you don't want to, but please don't judge those who do watch it - they are judged before God, certainly not you.

this ones lost haha

Regardless of my feelings about Full Metal Alchemist (stated elsewhere), I make this post as a moderator.

Initially, allow me to be explicit about one thing. There is no bad anime list. Some of the titles on this list a fair number of the administration members enjoy and believe are quality anime. What exists is a list of anime that we have banned from discussion because they continually prove to be arguments in waiting. Conversely, there are anime that are terrible for a Christian to watch (including hentai) that are not listed, because that is simply not the list's purpose.

CAA takes no official stance on any anime/movie/policy. Anything stated by administrators is their own personal opinion as a member and a Christian. We are not a political party that requires a platform.

You seemed to have an issue with anime that "may depict things clearly not ok biblically" and I must wonder why. By referring to a biblical stance on issues, you refer to the morality taught in the Bible. The Bible itself goes over thousands of things that are clearly contrary to the morality it teaches. Indeed, much of the violence within the Bible would be considered extremely graphic were it to be animated. Likewise the Bible is filled with sexually immoral stories.

What I mean is this: we should not condemn something because it shows sin. If a show venerates or lifts up sin, then perhaps it becomes something that could be negative for Christian viewers. But the work itself (anime or book) is not sin, nor is reading or watching it. The body is not made unclean by what goes into it, but by what comes out.

true_noir_chloe wrote:First of all, awsam, the trailer you saw was like most trailers - it was there to sell the violent youth masses on the show. I've seen quite a bit of episodes of FMA, and it has much more to it than that.

I never said the violence was what disturbed me. Lot's of anime/movies are violent and present it in a context which can have redeeming qualities. What bothers me about FMA is the occult-ish practices which present a view that one can have supernatural power, not from God, but from somewhere or something else, like alchemy.

true_noir_chloe wrote:Anway, here's a review of the first 30 episodes that I ran across and it's a really well-rounded review. It is not a CAA endorsed review, it is only a review that I found that I think covered the actual show's content in an unbiased manner:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/reviews/display.php?id=621

I agree that review was informative and unbiased, thank you, although I didn't learn anything that I hadn't already read about.

true_noir_chloe wrote: In the church, people who watch anime or read mangas are looked at as if we’ve given over to Satan. Yet, these same people continue to own TV sets, go to movie theaters and listen to stations that aren’t Christian. When does it start and when does it stop? Do you know? Do I know? Judgement comes with a heavy price. Do you have the ability to judge? Have you been given this authority?

You make an excellent point here and I completely agree. Anime as a genre isn't evil or satanic any more than books or movies are. As far as the judgement accusation goes, that I take offense to. Whom did I judge? I never said if you watch FMA, or any show for tha matter that you are evil or are going to hell or aren't a real Christian. Of course not. For that matter I watched NGE, by most considered the most corrupting of them all, and while I'm not proud that I saw it and I don't don't recommend it, I know I'm not cursed or hellbound or suddenly unsaved because I saw it. I think we as Christians have overused the "judgement" phrase so much that now we throw it around for any opinion to suit our needs. EX: Don't like my shirt? You're judging me! It's like curse words these days, society has overused them to the point that they have no meaning. If you meant that I was judging FMA, well then we can argue the symantics of judgement vs opinion. What I feel about an anime is an opinion. That said, what the bible says about things is truth]You have the right to not watch FMA, but please don't blast CAA as if it should take a stand against FMA simply because you don't think, and I say "think" because you've never seen it and you've come to a conclusion based on your own inner workings and self-biased opinions - simply because you don't think you'll like it I really doubt all of CAA will follow your lead.[/QUOTE]
For this I will apologize. I think I got a little carried away with wanting to know what the CAA official stance was on this. uc pseudonym says there no longer is an official stance on any anime. I didn't know that, sorry. What happened was I read past threads and came across one which talked about NGE being officially on the "bad" list - I think it was Ashley who said something like that. I guess once I saw that and then didn't see anything warning about the content of FMA, my hypocracy alarm went off.

As far as basing my opinion on what I read and saw of FMA, I don't apologize for that. You say I came to this conclusion based on my own "inner-workings". Well, I read what the bible says about occult practices and that was enough for me. I guess if that's "inner-workings" then so be it. I also don't feel like I have to see something to know what it's about either, and past threads have shown that I'm not the only one. With today's media availability, you can read literally hundreads of web sites about something without having to see it. Are all those web sites lying about "transmutation circles" and trying to raise mother from the dead? And for good measure I even checked out the official trailer which right off the bat showed what I would think of as witchcraft-like practices. It would be different if we were talking about a villian, but the main characters, the heros of the anime, do this, thus giving implied credibility - maybe not to intelligent or strong faith folks like us, but to young ones and those who may feel spiritualy weak in that area. Point is I don't have to touch a stove to know it's hot.

true_noir_chloe wrote:You have the freedom on this site to not watch it if you don't want to, but please don't judge those who do watch it - they are judged before God, certainly not you.

Amen. Couldn't have said it better myself.

uc pseudonym wrote:What I mean is this: we should not condemn something because it shows sin. If a show venerates or lifts up sin, then perhaps it becomes something that could be negative for Christian viewers. But the work itself (anime or book) is not sin, nor is reading or watching it.

I kind've agree....I guess. As I said above, I'm not condemning anything - I don't have that power - only God does. But to say watching anything isn't sinful. Hmm, that's a tough one, because on one hand you could say that by watching porn or hentai you are sinning, because what is your motivation for doing that. But one the other hand you could say that "I was just watching it for the art", or "I was just watching it so I could warn others what it's about", so I can see your point. Personally I'm not strong enough to do that so I'll stay away, but I suppose some may have that "gift".

UC, you also mentioned morality in the bible, and I got the impression you were arguing that one can't use the bible for a morality compass because it contains content which is graphic and people who did not act morally all the time. I hope I misinterpereted your meaning. Surely you don't dispute that the bible is God's Word and contained within is a perfect roadmap for living? Thankfully God is patient with us since we don't always follow the road; in my case I fall to the side quite often.

Basically I just wanted to warn folks out there (since I didn't see anything else already which mentioned it) that FMA (alledgedly) contains some material which may be considered occultish in nature, practiced by the main character. Obviously people can choose to watch it or not. Why do we always feel the need to state that anyway? God Bless.

First, allow me to thank you for your humble and Christian attitude. In today's society, it is quite refreshing.

awsam007 wrote:I kind've agree....I guess. As I said above, I'm not condemning anything - I don't have that power - only God does. But to say watching anything isn't sinful. Hmm, that's a tough one, because on one hand you could say that by watching porn or hentai you are sinning, because what is your motivation for doing that. But one the other hand you could say that "I was just watching it for the art", or "I was just watching it so I could warn others what it's about", so I can see your point. Personally I'm not strong enough to do that so I'll stay away, but I suppose some may have that "gift".

I would question the motivation of anyone watching hentai for such a reason. There is little art involved, and little need to warn others... it is called hentai for a reason. My purpose in stating this is the following: things that are not sin can cause sin in the viewing of them. Even the Bible has been used by certain sects to justify terrible things. Far be it from me to justify anything by the same logic.

awsam007 wrote:UC, you also mentioned morality in the bible, and I got the impression you were arguing that one can't use the bible for a morality compass because it contains content which is graphic and people who did not act morally all the time. I hope I misinterpereted your meaning. Surely you don't dispute that the bible is God's Word and contained within is a perfect roadmap for living? Thankfully God is patient with us since we don't always follow the road]

I can understand how that might have been ambiguous; please allow me to clarify. What I was saying was that if the Bible's moral compass is applied to the character's within the Bible, they will fall short of it (as they should- the Bible shows people like us, not superheros). By this I was saying that we should allow for a certain amount of brokenness in the lives of characters in other materials as well.

To continue the point: Christian entertainment can (and should, in my mind) show sin. That, in and of itself, is not sin. Likewise, secular entertainment should not be necessarily blasted for showing sin. Where Christian and secular entertainment differs is that Christian works will show sin for what it truly is.

awsam007 wrote:Basically I just wanted to warn folks out there (since I didn't see anything else already which mentioned it) that FMA (alledgedly) contains some material which may be considered occultish in nature, practiced by the main character.

It is more than alleged; it exists. To deny that is futile.

Allow me to also say that your warning is completely valid, to temper the remainder of my message. While occult practices are indubitably sin, there are a great many other sins. Is it truly any worse than the main character having the sin of pride? I can tell you that children are far more likely to act prideful than they are to practice witchcraft. Sin, regardless of its nature, is still sin.

I'm curious, from what I understand, the characters who tried to raise their mother from the dead suffered pretty severe consequences. I believe a major point to consider when deciding what fictional stories that contain certain occult elements you should watch is to see how the other characters and the characters themselves come to view their occult practices in the end. Are there consequences for what the character does that it wrong? Is the sinful behavior exalted as something to be imulated?

I can't answer these questions because I haven't seen FMA yet. But I'd be interested to know.

Those questions have been my guiding compass as far as what is or isn't ok for me to watch too, MangaFan. First off I ask myself, who's sinning? If the villians are, ok--it cements their role as villanous. But if the heroes are, that's a bit different. Secondly, does it glorify the sin? What happens to the characters after they sin--is it realistically shown to worsen their lives or are they made better? Things like that I think make a firm foundation that allows you both the freedom in Christ to enjoy entertainment and the Christian stance to take with it. I know that's a bit offtopic, but I felt like it needed to be said.

And Awsam, I just want to say I really respect the way you handled yourself. It would have been very easy to jump in with a quick temper and hurt feelings and force us to close this thread. But you acted maturely, handled yourself well, and presented logical and courteous counterpoints. That's so good to see. It's not that we don't like people disagreeing at CAA; we just don't like the tone and manner in which they do it 90% of the time.

I understand where Aswan is coming from, but from what I hear, their attempt to revive their mother was BAD. I haven't seen it myself, but I can deduce the following...
1. They're alchemists. They use elements of the earth to do stuff.
2. They broke the rules. Just because you're an alchemist doesn't mean you can play God. Thety did just that when they tried to bring their mother back from the dead.
3. They were punished for it. It cost one of them an arm and a leg, which were turned to metal, and the other one was turned into a big suit of armor.
4. They're going around, trying to get their old bodies back.

Sounds intresting, and not too deep into occultic stuff. Maybe I'm just dense, but I think that because it's fantasy we don't really need to worry about that kind of stuff so much. I understand you and respect you if that kind fo thing bothers you, though.

Make your own decision about it. This happens a lot. Like, for example, Pokemon doesn't bother me but some people despise it; Harry Potter bugs me to death and some people don't see anything wrong with it.

There's no such thing as "bad" anime and "good" anime. It depends on what you think about it.

awsam007 wrote:As far as the judgement accusation goes, that I take offense to. Whom did I judge? I never said if you watch FMA, or any show for tha matter that you are evil or are going to hell or aren't a real Christian.

For this, I am truly sorry. I thought you had said that it was wrong for a Christian to watch this show; and yet, I know some wonderful young Christians here who love this show for its intricate story line and the way it does talk over how there are consequences to sin and when you decide to play God. There are multiple side stories with each character and it is complete fantasy.

I happen to live with a big FMA fan, so I took it too personally. And for that, I am very sorry, awsam.

Here is something that might illustrate what aspect FMA puts on alchemy. Is this glorifying it?

Note: Nina is Shou Tucker's daughter and Alexander is his dog. Every few years, a National Alchemist has to present something to get his license renewed. Tucker became a National Alchemist when he made a talking chimera. A chimera is an animal changed through Alchemy.

Warning: I have done my best to edit the language (this is a scanlation so I don't know if it is in the original), but the blood is still there. Its the kindof blood you see in fist fights, nothing gorey. Just wanted to warn you, however.

Oh and I will post them in another post if they are too big.

Here are the next few...