CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Saw this on Anime News Networks' The Click column. Agreed with it wholeheartedly:
DEAR Adult Swim

WHY DO YOU HATE ANIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you all suck

Ok, seriously. I know you guys don't hate anime, because honestly the only people who can sufficiently say that they "hate anime" are people who haven't really seen that much of it, but that's a whole other argument. And besides, you guys showed nothing but Astro Boy over the holidays, which is just about the coolest thing ever in my opinion.

Yet, it's not terribly surprising that people would think that you hate anime. You don't promote it, you hardly air any of it anymore, and your responses to people upset over these things has been "nobody likes anime, shut up."

Obviously however such a flippantly sarcastic response isn't meant to be taken seriously from a network whose only true hit shows involve animated characters farting, bleeding, and farting and bleeding out oblique pop-culture references, but still. Anime fans are passionate, dedicated, and incessantly verbose despite their niche. The only satisfaction one gains from prodding them is the (admittedly real, yet) fleeting feeling of sadistic glee.

The real issue, I feel, is that the main reason cited for the recent cutback and dearth of anime is "ratings." Now, you probably don't need me to elaborate on how thoroughly messed up the current Nielsen ratings system is. A few years ago I heard a frustrated Jason DeMarco opine at a panel promoting IGPX that "[the current Nielsen system] has too many hands greasing the other to keep it going..." before deciding to quell that rant before he suddenly found himself unemployed. Even so, your top rated shows are, of course, Family Guy, and... Robot Chicken? Aqua Teen, kinda? Futurama, until Viacom bought it? The rest of your lineup tends to earn numbers in the mid-to-low six figures in the crucial 18-34 demographic. What ratings does anime typically receive? Mid to low six figures.

My point is simple. It's foolish to think that replacing repeats of Fullmetal Alchemist with Home Movies will significantly boost your ratings for a show that's airing at 1:30 in the morning anyway. Maybe, just maybe, you'll get 130,000 viewers instead of 120,000! What a fantastic improvement that will be; your advertisers and investors will surely laud such a minute improvement in viewership with free champagne for all!

Adult Swim, you are a low-rated but creatively ambitious and free network with two bona-fide hit shows and an entire stable of extremely niche low-budget cartoon shows. Cartoon Network and Adult Swim has had perhaps the largest stake in raising the overall fanbase for anime over the past decade or so, doing a downright <modsnip> job of presenting viewers a largely unspoiled view of the incredibly varied fields of programming that anime offers. It's sad to see them falter on this a bit for largely unspecified and mostly nonsensical reasons.

Unless, of course, you do hate anime.

I can sit here and make an essay on why Adult Swim or Cartoon Network hates anime is full of it, but I just get to the point.

They don't hate anime, they just hate bad ratings. Also, if they hated anime, then why are they still showing Bleach, Death Note, Shin-Chan and IY or pick up Sierie no Moribito - Guardian of the Spirit or Code Geass.

Death Note hasn't been a ratings helper, I can tell you that.

And besides, you guys showed nothing but Astro Boy over the holidays, which is just about the coolest thing ever in my opinion.

Yeah, they sure hate anime to show Astro Boy over the holidays. They must really really really hate anime!

My point is simple. It's foolish to think that replacing repeats of Fullmetal Alchemist with Home Movies will significantly boost your ratings for a show that's airing at 1:30 in the morning anyway.

Hmm, and keep running some titles in the ground? Yeah, that wouldn't be a foolish thing to do at all.



[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang [/font][/color]

Roy Mustang (post: 1216581) wrote::eyeroll:

I can sit here and make an essay on why Adult Swim or Cartoon Network hates anime is full of it, but I just get to the point.

They don't hate anime, they just hate bad ratings. Also, if they hated anime, then why are they still showing Bleach, Death Note, Shin-Chan and IY or pick up Sierie no Moribito - Guardian of the Spirit or Code Geass.

Death Note hasn't been a ratings helper, I can tell you that.



Yeah, they sure hate anime to show Astro Boy over the holidays. They must really really really hate anime!



[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang [/font][/color]

XD did you read the Article Roy?


The writer wasn't accusing them of hating anime, they were just stating some figures they noticed about it.

I agree, I'd rather watch quality animation, over some lame cartoon that looks like crap and is about really vulgar things...

of course, that's probably because I don't like much vulgarity. (Family Guy and SOME episodes of Robot Chicken is pretty my my limit, and evne those shows are hit and miss with me...)

so... I also agree, but I don't think this letter is giong to change AS's mind.

i remember when anime was only every night, then they scaled it back to 5 nights a week, and back to six...

oh wait...that was only 2 months ago. ._.

DEAR Adult Swim

WHY DO YOU HATE ANIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you all suck

Ok, seriously. I know you guys don't hate anime, because honestly the only people who can sufficiently say that they "hate anime" are people who haven't really seen that much of it, but that's a whole other argument.

Sounds like they saying that Adult Swim hates anime. Why even put that in cap and at the top?

Yet, it's not terribly surprising that people would think that you hate anime. You don't promote it, you hardly air any of it anymore, and your responses to people upset over these things has been "nobody likes anime, shut up."

Heh, I think they do that because they know anime fans can get their underwear in a wad, when they say things like that. I find it funny about the otakus, they whine when series is put on tv and then whine, when the channel takes it off.

There is only one way to feel about it. You a. don't want it on tv and don't watch it or B. You watch it, so they will air more anime.

You can't sit here say, blah its on tv. I'm not going to watch and then want to set fire to Adult Swim, because they took it off.

As much as Cartoon Network put work into putting anime on on their channel. You get the reply from those groups, when they hear an anime series is going to be put on TV. Oh no, you are going to screw the series up by editing or dubbing it.

So, why should Adult Swim have love for fans that don't have any love for them putting anime on tv in the first place?

So the finger just can't be pointed at Adult Swim, it also has to be pointed at some of the anime fans that have that kind of outlook.

Anime fans are passionate, dedicated, and incessantly verbose despite their niche.

Really? Most of those people are in elists/otaku group that will only watch uncut sub only anime and feel that you are not a fan, if you watch it dub or on tv.



[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang [/font][/color]

But at least they stil show the venture broths. which is a cartoon so almost anime right!:thumb:

I think Adult Swim is remembering they need to turn a profit to remain in business, and if a particular show or genre fails to meet a given set of expectations, they have to consider removing it or reducing it to prevent it from becoming a drain or their resources. Perhaps, there is some sort of conspiracy in the Neilsen Ratings, but if the shows bring in the viewers sufficiently, it won't matter. Among the people that I knew in undergrad., I was the only one who watched only the anime. The others watched only the American cartoons or a mix of both. That may very well reflect the general trend among viewership. If so, AS may be forced to reduced their anime offerings until a balance is found between supply and demand. As an AS commercial said years ago in response to an irate fan letter after displaying viewership numbers, "We don't hate anime. YOU hate anime."

Also, people need to understand that some of the shows that Adult Swim airs are shows that they own. So, that means they get a piece of the DVD profit. Which means, if they get close to the range of ratings as anime they aired, then its a far better value for them just airing anime.


Adult Swim is a business and they will do what they can to make money. If that means taken anime off and put one of their shows in its place to get more profit, they will do that.

They are not going air something, just to give fans a warm and fuzzy feeling all over just because they want their show to air.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

rocklobster (post: 1216572) wrote:DEAR Adult Swim

WHY DO YOU HATE ANIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I was an Adult Swim exec, I'd have deleted the email after the second line.

Adult Swim's Anime programming has several things against it. First, it's not nearly as popular so their in-house projects of American shows. No, not by a long shot. Secondly, Anime fans tend to be a sensitive bunch, and humor at their expense is not hard to write or get a reaction out of. Their target audience shares similar taste in humor, so Adult Swim can crack the bat at Anime with the rest of everyone jumping aboard. And if they have to suffer one Anime fan ranting on the boards HOW CAN YOU MOVE INUYASHA TO 4:00 AM YOU FOOLS, you're dosing the fire with kerosene.

DEAR Adult Swim viewers

WHY DO YOU HATE ANIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you all suck

Fixed.

Well, in Adult Swim's defense, anime fans are probably THE most irritating group of fans on the face of the earth. You just can't please these people. Like Roy said, they whine when they put a show on and then whine when they take it off. The people at AS probably hate the fans, not the shows themselves. If I was an AS exec, I'd be poking fun at mega-otakus too.

Edit: LOL Nate.

Fish and Chips (post: 1216641) wrote:If I was an Adult Swim exec, I'd have deleted the email after the second line.

Exactly my thoughts. The letter smacks of angered 16 year old and probably wouldn't make it past the secretary that filters the bosses e-mail.

Fish and Chips wrote:If I was an Adult Swim exec, I'd have deleted the email after the second line.

mechana2015 wrote:Exactly my thoughts. The letter smacks of angered 16 year old and probably wouldn't make it past the secretary that filters the bosses e-mail.

I agree and why I roll eyes after reading just part of it. If I was an exec of a company and got an e-mail like that, where it started in caps. It would be deleted just as fast as it was sent. But I do that anyway, if someone sends me an e-mail and writes part of it caps.

Also, I believe that he just said this there and didn't send it as a letter to Adult Swim. I hope he didn't, because the way he started it out, was unprofessional.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang [/font][/color]

Really Im just content with AS still showing anime. As long as they show at least one anime that I like, then I won't go crazy. I don't really see much point in watching subbed versions. But thats just me, I mean I hate to read subtitles. And maybe the reason people likes subs over dubs is because its the original untampered with version. But I like dubs so that I can understand them and not have to look at the bottom of screen for over half the show, then if I did do that(Watch anime with subtitles.)anime for me would be pointless. Again though, I would like to learn Japanese so that I may watch subbed versions.(Even I too would like the first version of the show. But its all about the language for me. If I can't understand the audio then I could less about the show. Although I hardly ever view subbed anime, I may view it if I have the time.)

Anyways, its mainly the viewers' fault. Im just glad I can watch something different aside from Friends and Seinfeld. And thats what anime is, its different. Which we oddly enough like.

And no offense to anyone who enjoys and watches subbed anime, I was just stating my opinion. Its cool if you watch subs, everyone has different tastes. Otherwise this world would be withouth variety, which would be boring.

To some degree though, AS can be totally unfair towards anime. I know their reason for not showing Ranma was simply "we hate it, so we'll never air it".

Doesn't matter it'd bring in just as good ratings as their other second rate shows (heck, might even do better if they simply mention it's from the creator of InuYasha), they just outright said...

No. We run this network and we hate it, so forget what you guys think!

Sometimes AS can be funny, but I really think they need to ditch the computer geeks. I'm not saying go with the regular guys who run CN, but seriously...they need someone who remembers this is a programming block. Not a personal website that belongs all to them and they have the power to do whatever the heck they wish.

You all do have a point, and I'm not excusing this very immature letter XD I would never have written it.

I just don't watch that much AS anyways. XD I'd rather watch Discovery and News than to see those stupid cartoons they show. (which is awesome, because I really really like Discovery! they have some nifty shows!)

I just wish they would have given the saturday night block a better chance.... by trying it on a different night.

I go back to a point I've made time and time again...

Who would stay home on a Saturday night, instead of partying or hanging otu with friends except for those who are REALLY dedicated. I'll admit it, I was watching NASCAR instead of the first run of Bleach tonight >_>
My friends were over too and so I hung out with them afterwards... I'd rather have a social life/hang out wiht my friends and family than sit in front of a screen all night XD.

I guess it really is our fault, but at the same time... AS never even tried to air this stuff on a different night. They kinda threw the baby out with the bathwater...

I'm not dying because I can't see anime every single night, I rarely watched it anyways. (although it's great to catch up on episodes I might have missed during the initial run).

So yeah...XD the letter won't work, it was stupid, and I would have stopped reading it as well after the second line.

Actually, Momo-P...they kinda do have the power to do whatever they wish. XD It's their network.

However, I guess it is kinda dumb to air anime so late at night when a lot of the fans can't stay up that late. (Ironic, since it's supposed to be "Adult" Swim. >_>)

About Ranma 1/2...maybe they're just being sarcastic when they say they hate it. The real reasons are probably that it's too expensive to get the rights for it, and it's a really long series, and it's also pretty old now. Just about anybody who wanted to see it has probably seen it by now. I just can't see it garnering huge ratings. And that's what matters in television-- how many people are watching. (And money, but that's another topic.) I mean, I'd love for them to give Gundam another chance, but that's not going to happen and I can accept that. I'd rather watch it subbed anyway. XD

Momo-P wrote: I know their reason for not showing Ranma was simply "we hate it, so we'll never air it".

They were joking about that. The real reason is Ranma doesn't fit the anime model that Adult Swim uses.

Also, its pretty old and most fans that watch Adult Swim want newer anime series to air.

And they took Astro Boy off. Why did they do this, because no one really wanted to watch older anime.

Adult Swim has tired putting older anime and they even showed EVA and it bomb so bad that it wasn't even funny.

I don't see Adult Swim airing Ranma, because its too big of a risk for them.

Maybe Sci Fi Channel would, since they show older anime, but again, the ratings are fair and they are not putting a blow to Adult Swim on Monday night.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

ShiroiHikari (post: 1216847) wrote:
However, I guess it is kinda dumb to air anime so late at night when a lot of the fans can't stay up that late. (Ironic, since it's supposed to be "Adult" Swim. >_>)

Yeah, I wish they'd put on some anime at a decent hour (let's say between 10-12 at night). I have difficulty staying up past 11 or 12 because I am usually exhausted at the end of the day...I tried so hard in the past to stay up to watch FMA or Inuyasha (back before I gave up on it), but now I don't try anymore. I'd rather get a good night's sleep than push myself, stay up half the night to watch anime, and then be too tired to function the next day.

If I really want to watch a series that badly, I'll find it to rent or borrow it.

Putting the actual issues aside for a moment, I think many of you are misunderstanding this guy. Unless I miss my mark widely, he's being completely sarcastic for the first three lines. His point is that anime fans tend to be irate and yell and he tries to contrast by offering a rationale. His first full paragraph is saying he knows they don't hate anime and he says some positive things about them (such as the Astro Boy comment).

I honestly don't know if his points about ratings are valid. He also might not be taking into account the cost of licensing a series versus cheaply creating one. But regardless, let's give him his due.

ChristianKitsune wrote:Who would stay home on a Saturday night, instead of partying or hanging out with friends except for those who are REALLY dedicated. I'll admit it, I was watching NASCAR instead of the first run of Bleach tonight >_>
My friends were over too and so I hung out with them afterwards... I'd rather have a social life/hang out wiht my friends and family than sit in front of a screen all night XD.

I can say that you do have a point, but lets not forgot that Shin-Chan and EVA started their first runs on weeknights. EVA's first run was on a Thursday night and yet, it bomb in the ratings. Shin-Chan did pretty well on weeknights, but now it was moved to Saturday nights.

I mostly tape the anime on Adult Swim on Saturday nights anyway and when college football starts in the Fall, I'm watching that and not Adult Swim.

I think the major problem for Adult Swim is, where to put anime on a weeknight, if they tried airing the new eps of the anime on a weekday night.

You know that a Friday night wouldn't be good, because most people in the age range that watches Adult Swim are going out that night.

You know that Adult Swim is not going to mess with the Sunday night lineup, since its their biggest nightly draw.

Also, putting anime early is not going to help that much, they tired that already and it didn't work.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

Thank you uc pseudonym! You said what I had been thinking when I started reading this thread.

I actually read the entire letter, or I shouldn't have bothered with the rest of my response. If I were a harassed, tired programming director, however, I can't say I'd come off as charitable.

I think the bigger issue with AS and anime is that the anime audience is in the process of abandoning TV networks like Adult Swim entirely. Thinks about it, by the time any anime can manage to get itself aired on American TV, it's whole fanbase has already either bought it on DVD or downloaded the fansubs. Of course they can't get the same ratings as programing that actually appears on AS first.

Oh, and just to play the devil's advocate: to everyone who complains about Adult Swim and anime, at least they're trying harder than The SciFi Channel.

I think something worse than The Click's letter would be Jack Chick's letter to Adult Swim.

Jack Chick doesn't even know Adult Swim exists. Them dang moving pictures are Satanic you know. It's all in his latest tract!

Blitzkrieg1701 wrote:I think the bigger issue with AS and anime is that the anime audience is in the process of abandoning TV networks like Adult Swim entirely. Thinks about it, by the time any anime can manage to get itself aired on American TV, it's whole fanbase has already either bought it on DVD or downloaded the fansubs. Of course they can't get the same ratings as programing that actually appears on AS first.

That is something else that I feel that he didn't take into account as well.

Oh, and just to play the devil's advocate: to everyone who complains about Adult Swim and anime, at least they're trying harder than The Sci Fi Channel.

Believe me, I'm one that has played devil's advocate to anyone who complains about Adult Swim and anime. Yes, they are trying harder then the Sci Fi Channel.



I don't understand why Sci Fi Channel is not trying to sign any deals with other anime companies and show more anime. They must have some odd deal with Manga Entertainment. Starz Entertainment own Manga Entertainment and yet, Starz network has aired the FMA movie and Black Lagoon. So, I guess the deal with Starz Entertainment is that Sci Fi channel can only air Manga Entertainment anime.

If this is ture, they need to break out of the model and in a hurry.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

My guess it's the licensing more than anything else. Assuming the article is spot-on about the ratings, then I would say AS's motivation is perfectly clear.

If cheap poor quality animation rates the same as high quality expensive animation, why would you go with the expensive stuff?

If you want more anime, stop watching the garbage and convince a ton of other people to do the same. All the letter writing campaigns in the world won't do a thing if the ratings don't show a difference.

termyt wrote:If you want more anime, stop watching the garbage and convince a ton of other people to do the same.

True, but there's a problem with this theory, and it's the same problem that plagues a lot of situations like this.

If people stop watching the crappy anime on Sci-Fi, then the executives will be likely to think, "It is apparent that people do not like anime, so we won't show it any more."

On the other hand, if people continue watching the crappy anime on Sci-Fi, then the executives will think, "People love this! Let's get more anime like this!" and they then continue to show crappy anime.

It's a problem that continues to exist for things like this. Do you support the crap, and hope that eventually something good will come out of it? Or do you reject the crap, and hope that the good stuff won't go away because of it?

I dunno. I don't really even watch TV, so...I guess in the end I'm not watching it either way. XD;;

Nate wrote:It's a problem that continues to exist for things like this. Do you support the crap, and hope that eventually something good will come out of it? Or do you reject the crap, and hope that the good stuff won't go away because of it?

Perhaps he meant AS's original content? At least that is how I interpreted his post.

Myself, I try to patronize the good series and ignore the bad ones, but I'm rather cynical about common denominators and the lowest of them.

uc pseudonym wrote:Perhaps he meant AS's original content? At least that is how I interpreted his post.

He somewhat was, untill he said this,

My point is simple. It's foolish to think that replacing repeats of Fullmetal Alchemist with Home Movies will significantly boost your ratings for a show that's airing at 1:30 in the morning anyway. Maybe, just maybe, you'll get 130,000 viewers instead of 120,000! What a fantastic improvement that will be]

Home Movies wasn't Adult Swim original content. It first aired on UPN in 1999 with only five eps into it. Then Adult Swim aired the remaining eight on the Cartoon Network in 2001 and they went on to make three more seasons of it.

A few years ago I heard a frustrated Jason DeMarco opine at a panel promoting IGPX that "[the current Nielsen system] has too many hands greasing the other to keep it going..." before deciding to quell that rant before he suddenly found himself unemployed. Even so, your top rated shows are, of course, Family Guy, and... Robot Chicken? Aqua Teen, kinda? Futurama, until Viacom bought it? The rest of your lineup tends to earn numbers in the mid-to-low six figures in the crucial 18-34 demographic. What ratings does anime typically receive? Mid to low six figures.

Where, I may agree that the current Nielsen system is not that great, but why did he even talk about IGPX here? IGPX was showed on Toonami and the series did fair, but not great.

Now, I don't know if he was taken the weekend lineup or the weekday line up. Yes, the ratings for Saturday nights has been in the 200,000 to 300,000 range. But if you look at the Sunday, where there is no anime on, the range has been 700,000 to 1,000,000.

This is just me, but before I can really give the guy his due. He should have done a little more research into this, before writing it.

Also, from what I read on ANN, not a lot of people are agreeing with him on this matter or thrown some stuff as why Adult Swim does this and that.

termyt wrote:My guess it's the licensing more than anything else.

It mostly does. Making their own original content is far cheaper then going out and buying licensing for anime.

termyt wrote:My guess it's the licensing more than anything else. Assuming the article is spot-on about the ratings, then I would say AS's motivation is perfectly clear.

I know that I said this already, but I will say it again.

Also, people need to understand that some of the shows that Adult Swim airs are shows that they own. So, that means they get a piece of the DVD profit. Which means, if they get close to the range of ratings as anime they aired, then its a far better value for them just airing anime.

[color="Red"]
[font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]