CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

PostPosted: **Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:49 pm**

Okay, I'm hearning all this wonderful stuff about Death Note.It's popping all over anime insider. But when I read about it it seemed like a horrible show to me and that no christian should watch it! (but yet I still based one of my story characters looks on one guy... :sweat:

) Anyways! Could someone please help me with this I'm dieing to know what its about...well more then the notebook anyways.

Thanks. ^^ :grin:

PostPosted: **Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:16 pm**

I'm probably not the best one to answer your question as I've never finished the series. Basically, though, I think a lot of people find Death Note to be an interesting series because it takes a different and rarely seen viewpoint--that is, the protagonist is the villain while the antagonist is the "good guy." There's nothing wrong morally with this method of storytelling; Shakespeare used the same method in his play, Macbeth. What a lot of people don't seem to understand, however, is that just because the story initially follows Light (that is, the villain) doesn't mean the author agrees with the villain's views or even plans to create a story in which the villain's views are upheld.

I'm sure that other more informed members could go into far more detail than I've gone into here, but hopefully this'll help for now. XD

PostPosted: **Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:19 pm**

Thanks though! I need all the help i can get!

The thing that worrys me is there was mention that a god of death dropped the notebook. Thats my only concern...

Thanks so much for your help.

PostPosted: **Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:21 pm**

[color="Red"](Well, for one, the series follows the villain rather than the hero - which explains why you think Christians shouldn't watch it (because if he was the good guy, then it'd be condoning his actions, but Light is easily identifiable as a villain unless you totally dig guys who break the law).)

(The two main characters are Light, the "bad guy" and our protagonist, and L, the "good guy" and our antagonist. What makes this series so incredible is simply that those two are geniuses - and they're both trying to track down the other. It's like watching the World Chess Championship Match - each moment it seems like one is going to outsmart the other, and then suddenly you find out they're on even ground again.)

(Also - with the villain being the protagonist, it adds the added suspense of what actually is going to happen in the end (Ihavent'seenityetdon'tspoilit - though I do know the general gist). Will it follow the usual story trend and have the protagonist win and yet have the villain win? Or will it play devil's advocate and have the hero win and yet have the antagonist win?)

(edit concerning the post made while I was typing this: The Shinigami (death gods) are a part of Japanese mythology. If you have a problem with mythology, then by all means don't watch, but all it's doing is combining mythology with the real world for story's sake.)[/color]

PostPosted: **Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:24 pm**

Neko-Neko-Girl wrote:Thanks though! I need all the help i can get!

The thing that worrys me is there was mention that a god of death dropped the notebook. Thats my only concern...

Thanks so much for your help.

Shinigami, or "gods of death," are fairly apparently fairly common in Japanese culture. I don't know what religion, mythology, or system of beliefs from which they might stem, but basically, they're like "grim reapers" and will show up sporadically throughout many anime and manga series, such as Full Moon wo Sagashite and Bleach. Personally, I take them with a grain of salt and see it as the fantasy that it's meant to be. XD Whatever works, though. XD

PostPosted: **Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:35 pm**

Just want to add my 2 cents: Light is NOT "the bad guy" and L is not "the good guy." One of the themes of Death Note is ambiguous nature or morality, that humans do not either fall only on the side of good or evil (whether you believe that or not is up to you), and essentially, both of them are fighting for their own ideals of Justice, however warped they may be. I'm not going to defend Light-- he needs no defending, as his initially almost noble ideal is crushed my his own corruption, but L is most certainly not a paragon on justice. He is petty, he cares more about winning and his own ego than actually making the world a better place, he makes unethical decisions just for the sake of results (ends justify means), he does not even obey the law and justice that he claims to uphold, he has minimal respect for the sanctity of human life, and worst, he judges others when he himself is full of moral holes. The only true model of justice in the series is Yagami Soichirou.

I think the fact that I'm talking about this that much shows why I personally love Death Note-- it raises a lot of questions and moral debate, and it's fun to analyze in the same way that one analyzes literature in English class (Crime and Punishment, anyone?). There are people who enjoy Death Note for a purely pulp-fiction reason-- because it's thrilling, because there's murder, or if they're yaoi fangirls, because there's ridiculous non-existent "subtext"-- but I think if you look at it deeper, you can appreciate it on a whole 'nother level. It's sort of like, when you read a classic novel in English class for the first time, it's required reading and you don't care about it, so you come to hate it; however, when you reread it later, after you've had more >brainwashing< English class and more life experiences, you learn to see what the author is trying to say or how it relates to the real world, it suddenly becomes facinating; you can appreciate it more.

(And I know I'm not supposed to pimp my own site, but deathnotes.kefi.org has a lot of essays on Death Note (some better than others, I'll admit) that analyze Death Note in a pretty interesting way. I would especially check out anything written by nobutterflies.)

PostPosted: **Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:09 pm**

You deserve a friendly neighborhood hug! :hug:

*glomp*:lol: Thanks so much for this. and I'll check out the site. I'm an information magnet!

I'll check it out some more. thanks again minakichan. :grin:

PostPosted: **Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:31 pm**

The moral ambiguity is such that I mainly like Death Note for its plot twists, and turns, and watching a battle of wits that makes one think of Sherlock Holmes vs. Moriarty, only with the lines between protagonist and antagonist more blurred.

It's like a great thrilling detective novel turned into an anime, for me.

PostPosted: **Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:16 pm**

Deathnote by far at this current moment in time is my favorite anime. Mainly its a battle of wits which is absolutely nice! There really aren't any christian themes in it, but the show does give the reader or viewer something to knaw on. Theres never a dull moment(At least for me.), and Ryuk is just a plain riot!(Meaning he's very funny, mainly for comic relief. Im refering to the episode that was on AS just last Saturday. I can't reveal anything, but Ryuk was hillarious!) Anyway I really think this is the most interesting anime and manga out right now, so be sure to read or watch it!

PostPosted: **Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:00 pm**

Yeah I watch Death Note for the mystery, suspense, and battle of the geniuses. Every episode leaves you wanting to know what happens next. I absolutely love it. I've only seen through episode 8 (watching it on Cartoon Network) so I can't say much, but I don't like Light (the main character) very much - and I don't get the impression you're really supposed to like him.
And as far as shinigami and Japanese mythology go, if you have a problem with that stuff, then that counts out like 90% of all anime. There's mythology in practically everything out there, including stuff that's not anime. Star Wars, Star Trek... even those have their own. Not that it by any means makes it ok to accept all these things if you disagree with mythology or don't feel comfortable watching it. If that is the case then definitely don't watch. But just be consistent with your choices. If you think one mythology is bad because it disagrees with the Bible, then exclude all those that do that.

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:53 pm**

Okay so first u would like to thank all of you for all the wonderful info! And I have made up my mind! I'm not going to watch it. And to tell why I've written this! Enjoy!

Before I begin I would like to quote Romans 7:16. "For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God of salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jews first and also for the Greek." ^^

Now first what caught my eye was the death god, Ryuk. (Or whatever his name be. :sweat:

) First theres the fact that hes a false god. I know this is mythology and such and I would have been fine if they would have just left it at that.The thing that really bugged me was something I found in a "Article" In Anime Insider. (I love that magazine. ^^) So allow me to quote it!

"That by trading in half his or her remaining life, a Human user of the Note can gain the power to see any persons true name and remaining life spand..." Thats all I'm going to point out for now. ^^

when I read that, immediately something clicked. There was a small voice in the pit of my insides that screamed; "Nope! Thats ones bad! move on! Get a life! I wouldn't watch that if i where you!"

And I have a HUGE feeling that was God speaking. cause that sure wasn't dinner. -.-
I also read this in the article thingy: "The Death Note might be an increadibly powerful magical artifact, but it's also a regular notebook..." (Kinda like the one I'm writing in! give or take the calender,

) "...Like you might find in target O.O This has allowed many real-life Japanese kids to make there own "Death Notes," listing classmates the hate, and generally freaking people out in Japan." But your already knew that...

Isn't that interesting? Well to me Death Note sounds like Voodoo in a Book! And I'm sure you know what Voodoo is. And here is where I would like to point out a few things.

One: That just watching a anime with demonic stuff involved you might think, "Oh I'm not part of it! It's not real, it's only a show! It's all fake! I'm just on the sidelines watching!"

Well I'd hate to burst your bubble but thats not true. Theres lots of stuff that happens in anime that also is real in real-life. And most of it is connected to the Occult. Like Voodoo.

For example: The Japanese kids and there "Target bought Death notes of..we..death!"

Second example is myself. You know the anime Avatar. Well I was so in love with that anime! So I too wanted to be able to bend fire, air, ect. Boy, was that a mistake.

So I used the wonderful world of Google! :grin:

I found out that you really could bend that stuff! I even found a site that told you how. It was very new age though, with the whole: Dig deep into your soul ... kinda thing. It showed you how to light matches with your mind. I was so tempted to do it. I almost did it to! :bang:

But I remembered to do that kind of stuff I would have to Sell my soul to Satan.

To me that ties in with the, "That by trading in half his or her remaining life, a Human user of the Note can gain the power to see any persons true name and remaining life spand.." thing. :grin:

And last but not least! How can you guys even STAND to look at Ryuk! I mean I feel like i should curl up into a ball and rock back and forth saying:
"I feel fine, I feel
great, I feel wonderful!
I feel fine, I feel
great, I feel wonderful!
I feel fine, I feel
great, I feel wonderful!" Over, and over, and over, ..you get the point. :grin:

Man, you think your eyes would fall out and roll across the floor!
^^ Sorry that was just a "Had-to-add-thing"

So, to pin the tail on the donkey! (Yeah I know suck-ish metaphor. ) I'll rap it up with this:

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.

Philippians 4:8 KJV

Now for my final card. Compare that verse to Death Note, Ryuk, And all the other stuff. What dose God say to you? I'll be praying, And if your not sure what to do, Pray about it. Ask God to help you know whats good and whats bad.

NOW I BRAISE FOR SUDDEN IMPACT OF YOUR POSTS! *pulls out cupcake shooter, and shield of pocky * BRING IT, NYO! :mutter:

Funny last note: And I wouldn't be writing peoples names in note books! I would be hitting the people with the note books! It would do a lot more damage! Man, I could make my notebooks like boomerangs! ANd we could have a note book civil war! :grin:

:

~Neko-Neko-Girl, Nyo!

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:05 pm**

That is totally your decision, you are free to make it, and I respect that right. If you feel guilty or uncomfortable watching it, then you absolutely shouldn't. I, for one, still will watch and read Death Note and enjoy it without feeling guilty at all, but that's not to say that you should follow my lead.

I would like to point out that the Death Note itself is clearly designated as a corruption, if not evil, force, so the anime does not intend to suggest that either the action of killing through the Note or Light's path are noble or worthy at all. If you've ever read Fyodor Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment, the theme is very similar-- the main character has a God complex and commits murder, but his actions and mindset are clearly designated as in the wrong. Since you haven't read much of it, I'm guessing that you haven't realized that yet (or, like many other fans of the series, you might be watching/reading it without thinking about the actual message), but I just want to say that there's no need to judge the rest of us as devil-worshipping homicidal occult freaks.

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:12 pm**

Neko-Neko-Girl wrote:How can you guys even STAND to look at Ryuk!

'Cuz he's goofy lookin'. He makes me laugh.

And now, let me throw a verse back at you, since we're flinging verses at each other.

2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. - Romans 14:2-4

Replace "eat everything" with "watch Death Note." We are not to look down on you for not watching it, BUT ALSO, you are not to look down on US for watching it.

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:13 pm**

Wow....Here have a cupecake. *hands A cupcake to minakichan out of cupcake shooter* ^^.

I wasn't calling you a devil-worshipping homicidal occult freak...Was I? Hey i was just warning you okay. Just telling you what what i thought God wanted. K. ^^ And I'm not saying your going to Hell if you watch it. lol. Oh no. thats not at all what i was saying. Thanks so much for not yelling at me minakichan. I respect you lots for that! Oh, and thanks for not throwing a not book of doom at me! :grin

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:21 pm**

Nate wrote:'Cuz he's goofy lookin'. He makes me laugh.

And now, let me throw a verse back at you, since we're flinging verses at each other.

2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. - Romans 14:2-4

Replace "eat everything" with "watch Death Note." We are not to look down on you for not watching it, BUT ALSO, you are not to look down on US for watching it.

man your good at the verse flinging game! I geuss your kinda right there. and I did not mean to judge you guys I'm really sorry if it came across that way.

And are you saying I'm the one that only eat veggies and whos faith is weak? cause I've had my share of exploring bad anime and I eat alot more then veggies. :grin:

:lol::thumb: and what not. well i geuss thats all I got to say to that. Oh, and heres your cupecake. *Hands cupcake to Nate*

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:53 pm**

Aww, this is what I like about CAA. We can disagree vehemently with each other, but we do so by handing out cupcakes instead of flaming =D

Or vegetables.

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:57 pm**

Or vegetable cupcakes.

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:57 pm**

Keep in mind that death gods/shinigami are basically grim reapers (They're called reapers in Bleach and Kami/Gami can mean spirit). Death Note doesn't really promote demons and such. They just exist. Kinda like in real life. And shinigami aren't worshiped as far as I know.

And as others have pointed out, Death Note is about someone who ends up with a God complex. Light's intentions don't seem that bad at first, then you realize that humans should never have that sort of power, and that's the point of the story.

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:02 pm**

Yeah, right now Death Note is my fave as well. The value that propels the series is moral ambiguity. There isn't a good guy or a bad guy. Everything is neutral and it just makes the series even better. Similar neutrality is found in novels like War and Peace.

I, for one, will not stop watching and reading Death Note.

Besides, Ryuk said himself that he had no sides.

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:07 pm**

Intersting! Heres your cupcake!

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:35 pm**

*can already picture Mods getting a thread lock set up* I find nothing wrong with Deathnote i find the story fascinating and the whole morality issue quite a good gimmick. I am not gonna say anything about the posts saying deathnote is evil or anything like that i am just gonna say I agree with nate Ryuuk makes me laugh he loves his apples. I am a fan because of suspense and well some really good story telling and lets all remember that its fictionthere are demons and fakeDeathnotes around. *shrugs* Thats my two cents now i want my cupcake

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:58 pm**

ilikegir33 wrote:Yeah, right now Death Note is my fave as well. The value that propels the series is moral ambiguity. There isn't a good guy or a bad guy. Everything is neutral and it just makes the series even better. Similar neutrality is found in novels like War and Peace.

I, for one, will not stop watching and reading Death Note.

Besides, Ryuk said himself that he had no sides.

I only read to volume 7. At least until that far Light is certainly the bad guy and L the good guy.

[spoiler]It was kinda one thing when Light killed the guy holding the hostages and the death row inmates, but then he starts kill the police and kills Naomi, and so on.[/spoiler]

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:10 pm**

L is not the good guy. L has never been the good guy.

OK, well, perhaps you could believe that he's been a good guy in the first and second volumes, but it just drains away from there. What kind of good guy is as hypocritical and petty as L is? What kind of good guy impedes on human rights the way L does? What kind of good guy has as little reverence for the value of human life as L does? Even Light is more just than L sometimes (of course, I'm thinking of during That Arc, you know what I'm talking about). I mean, I don't expect a "good guy" to be perfect, but when he's as similar to Light (the "bad guy") as he is, I don't think he deserves to be called "good" anymore. I think it's similar to Light-- they both seem to be pretty good at the beginning, but it just gets worse and worse.

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:22 pm**

AHHA! This probably has nothing to do with the last three post but I'll say it anyways. ^^ Now no one can say i haven't watched it. My mother and I watch some during dinner. And we both really didn't like it. ^^; Sorry guys. Well I liked it..kinda...I didn't like Ryuk which i've made quite clear. ^^ So.....Is there anyway to delete this thread?

Oh and i have a funny picture to post up hear. but I'm so tired. so I'll do it tomarrow. hehe it doesn't , matter if your a death note fan or not...you'll like the pic. *Trys to drive self to restart computer to the other system to get picture...*

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:32 pm**

Neko-Neko-Girl wrote:AHHA! This probably has nothing to do with the last three post but I'll say it anyways. ^^ Now no one can say i haven't watched it. My mother and I watch some during dinner. And we both really didn't like it. ^^; Sorry guys. Well I liked it..kinda...I didn't like Ryuk which i've made quite clear. ^^ So.....Is there anyway to delete this thread?

Oh and i have a funny picture to post up hear. but I'm so tired. so I'll do it tomarrow. hehe it doesn't , matter if your a death note fan or not...you'll like the pic. *Trys to drive self to restart computer to the other system to get picture...*

No there isn't anyway to delete this thread only mods can do that. But I am glad you actually watched some. Its not for everyone (content aside) so *shrugs* We'll all just have to agree to disagree.

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:50 pm**

minakichan wrote:OK, well, perhaps you could believe that he's been a good guy in the first and second volumes, but it just drains away from there.

I disliked L ever since he was willing to let someone die just to test Kira's ability to kill (the whole Lind L. Taylor thing). Then compounding that with flagrant violation of the law by placing hidden cameras in people's houses...yeah. He's definitely not a good guy.

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:55 pm**

L wasn't a saint, that's true. But, he didn't go on mass-murdering sprees against innocent people who were just doing their job either, and I don't remember him ever being sinister or psychopathic as Light. To be honest, Light pretty much lost any of my (potential) sympathy after he started killing off FBI agents.

L can be considered an anti-hero as his methods/philosophies are questionable, but I didn't ever really consider him a villain/bad guy.

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:04 pm**

Well, you're comparing him to LIGHT; that's almost akin to (cue the bad analogies!) comparing a swindler to a serial rapist. The swindler looks great in comparison, but it doesn't mean he's any justified at all. Also, in That Arc That I'm Talking About, we can see that comparing the base material, Light is purer and more just than L. At least Light has some good intentions, as twisted as they might be; L has no one in mind but himself.

I'm not saying L is a bad guy either; I'm just saying that he's not a good guy, not even close. Not everyone is good guy or bad guy! (I would say "Not even Light!" but I kinda don't want to be impaled by a pitchfork.) I do think that a lot of people mistake him for being a good guy simply because in similar works of manga pulp fiction, there ARE black and white goods and evils. Death Note is a little different.

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:30 pm**

minakichan wrote:Also, in That Arc That I'm Talking About, we can see that comparing the base material, Light is purer and more just than L. At least Light has some good intentions, as twisted as they might be; L has no one in mind but himself.

Actually, now that I've thought about it a bit, I agree with you on the first part, if we are thinking of the same thing.

But on the second point, I would argue that while Light has stated good intentions, they are basically nothing more than an excuse for a "self-fulfilling fantasy," Light's own god-complex... which aren't really good intentions at all, and this becomes more evident as the series continues on.

Certain evidence does lead me to believe he possibly might have turned out "all-right," had he never found the Death Note. The latter gave him an easy outlet for inner feelings he probably never would have otherwise acted on.

PostPosted: **Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:33 pm**

But on the second point, I would argue that while Light has stated good intentions, they are basically nothing more than an excuse for a "self-fulfilling fantasy," Light's own god-complex... which aren't really good intentions at all, and this becomes more evident as the series continues on.

Sorry, that's what I meant. And I think that at the VERY beginning, he really did have good intentions, for about a half episode, until he developed the God complex (wow, a God complex in half an episode. Is that a record or what?).

Essentially, I am saying that I am completely in agreement with your last sentence.

CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

What is so wonderful about death note?

What is so wonderful about death note?

It is done! MWHAHAHA!