CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

I was doing a bit of reading on Wikipedia last night, and I discovered that the episode of Pokemon that enduced the epileptic seizures, "Dennō Senshi Porygon" or "Digital Fighter Porygon" has never seen the light of day (or film projector) since that incident.

I was thinking--with the technology as it is right now where animators can easily replace scenes and objectionable objects almost flawlessly, would that particular episode be shown today after correcting that particular scene?

KhakiBlueSocks wrote:I was doing a bit of reading on Wikipedia last night, and I discovered that the episode of Pokemon that enduced the epileptic seizures, "Dennō]

I still think the Beauty and the Beach ep of Pokemon is more Infamous then the digital fighter porygon ep.

KhakiBlueSocks wrote:[color=black]I was thinking--with the technology as it is right now where animators can easily replace scenes and objectionable objects almost flawlessly, would that particular episode be shown today after correcting that particular scene?

They have already started doing that as replace things or remove stuff in anime. The problem is, its to remove or replace stuff to add fanservice.


Col. Roy Mustang

Is that the one where presumably it induced seizures in Japanese children?
All in all an interesting story but I believe it is nothing but an urban legend.You see
there are two things wrong with it:
1.To be true it would have to have the same effect on every child who watched it.
But that would mean even non-epileptic children would have to be affected in the same way as epileptic which entirely implausible.Plus the fact that the brains of most people do not normally respond the same way to the same stimuli.
2.Not even all epileptic children would have responded to the stimuli the same way.
Not all epileptics have the same triggers for seizures,so it is likely while it might
trigger some to have siezures others would be unaffected.
And I am not going to get into the fact that as long as epileptics take their meds
there is no problem of having such an attack triggered.

mitsuki lover wrote:Is that the one where presumably it induced seizures in Japanese children?
All in all an interesting story but I believe it is nothing but an urban legend.You see
there are two things wrong with it:
1.To be true it would have to have the same effect on every child who watched it.
But that would mean even non-epileptic children would have to be affected in the same way as epileptic which entirely implausible.Plus the fact that the brains of most people do not normally respond the same way to the same stimuli.
2.Not even all epileptic children would have responded to the stimuli the same way.
Not all epileptics have the same triggers for seizures,so it is likely while it might
trigger some to have siezures others would be unaffected.
And I am not going to get into the fact that as long as epileptics take their meds
there is no problem of having such an attack triggered.

I don't know man. It sounds pretty legit to me.

mitsuki lover wrote:1.To be true it would have to have the same effect on every child who watched it.

Plus the fact that the brains of most people do not normally respond the same way to the same stimuli.

Maybe it's just me, but that seems contradictory. XD

If all children respond differently to different stimuli, then why would every child have to be affected for the story to be true? It affected the children who responded to the flashing lights with a seizure]had[/i] been affected, but since they weren't, it sounds plausible enough to me.

mitsuki lover wrote:Is that the one where presumably it induced seizures in Japanese children?
All in all an interesting story but I believe it is nothing but an urban legend.You see
there are two things wrong with it:
1.To be true it would have to have the same effect on every child who watched it.
But that would mean even non-epileptic children would have to be affected in the same way as epileptic which entirely implausible.Plus the fact that the brains of most people do not normally respond the same way to the same stimuli.
2.Not even all epileptic children would have responded to the stimuli the same way.
Not all epileptics have the same triggers for seizures,so it is likely while it might
trigger some to have siezures others would be unaffected.
And I am not going to get into the fact that as long as epileptics take their meds
there is no problem of having such an attack triggered.

1. This is not true. That is like saying that everyone would react the same way to eating chocolate. Some people are allergic to it. According to your logic, no one is really allergic to chocolate, they are just making it up.

2. This was dealing with a form of epilepsy that was not diagnosed in Japan at the time. So obviously, they were not taking meds to prevent this.

There are roughly 700 people in Japan who would be offended at you calling this an urban myth. They had to deal with a very real problem because of this episode.

Regardless of whether they can "correct" the episode or not, I doubt that Nintendo would let them, considering the general "stigma" the episode has.

I remember watching the news live as the story was unfolding. It is not an urban legend by any means.

mitsuki lover wrote:1.To be true it would have to have the same effect on every child who watched it.
But that would mean even non-epileptic children would have to be affected in the same way as epileptic which entirely implausible.Plus the fact that the brains of most people do not normally respond the same way to the same stimuli.

Wait. Wait wait wait. You're honestly trying to tell me that people who do not have a medical condition will respond to something in the exact same way as people that do have a medical condition?

If you are, I don't even know what to say to that. Seriously. I mean...wow.

2.Not even all epileptic children would have responded to the stimuli the same way.

Yeah. Which is why only 150 of the children had to be hospitalized and the rest of the children recovered on the ambulance rides to the hospitals. So this supports the theory, not destroys it.

Not all epileptics have the same triggers for seizures,so it is likely while it might
trigger some to have siezures others would be unaffected.

Yeah, there's no way to classify seizures according to their trigger. Scientists have never done that, no sir.

Sarcasm is wonderful.

And I am not going to get into the fact that as long as epileptics take their meds
there is no problem of having such an attack triggered.

Uh, yeah...unless of course, you don't KNOW if you have epilepsy, in which case you aren't TAKING medication. Also the fact that photosensitive seizures have no triggers outside of flashing lights or rapid color switching so most people who have that condition hardly ever have seizures.

Five minutes of research would have shown you everything I said. FIVE MINUTES.

If you want to go on believing it's an urban legend, whatever. It really doesn't affect me either way. But whether you believe it or not it's still true.

Nate wrote:
Yeah. Which is why only 150 of the children had to be hospitalized

A very amusing number too... coincidence?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this the episode where they said whenever a character's eyes flashed (red, I believe), kids somewhere in the world who were watching experienced seizures?

K. Ayato wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this the episode where they said whenever a character's eyes flashed (red, I believe), kids somewhere in the world who were watching experienced seizures?

It was Pikachu's electric attack. The thunderbolt was animated as a strobing red and blue light that flashed at just the right frequency. Some people are sensitive to that, and so it triggered the seizures. Especially for some kids who were sitting too close to the screen.

[QUOTe=Roy Mustang]I still think the Beauty and the Beach ep of Pokemon is more Infamous then the digital fighter porygon ep.
[/QUOTE]
Umm...that may be, but I don't remember "Beauty and the Beach" causing seizures to some of their viewing audience. And at least "Beauty and the Beach" aired on TV (Albeit once, and only after quite a few edits)

Not sure. But let us not get off topic. We are not discuss if the episode that caused seizures is and urban mith or not. It has to be true or otherwise CNN wouldnt have reported it.

KhakiBlueSocks wrote:Umm...that may be, but I don't remember "Beauty and the Beach" causing seizures to some of their viewing audience. And at least "Beauty and the Beach" aired on TV (Albeit once, and only after quite a few edits)

I don't know, man. James' fake boobs nearly made me WANT to have a seizure.

Azier the Swordsman wrote:I don't know, man. James' fake boobs nearly made me WANT to have a seizure.

I haven't seen the episode in years, but I thought they cut that scene out when it aired on TV!

KhakiBlueSocks wrote:Some people are sensitive to that, and so it triggered the seizures. Especially for some kids who were sitting too close to the screen.

Yeah, a lot of the kids who had problems were watching TV with the lights off and/or sitting too close to the screen.

Come to think of it, this episode of Pokemon may be the cause of the "Be sure to watch TV with the lights on and sitting a good distance away from the TV" messages at the beginning of anime now.

And if we're going to talk about which Pokemon episode is the most infamous, I'd say "Holiday Hi-Jynx" is much more infamous than "Beauty and the Beach," given that it was a big deal after an article was written about it in Black World Today.

EDIT:

Khaki wrote:I haven't seen the episode in years, but I thought they cut that scene out when it aired on TV!

I think they cut out the scene where he shows them off to Misty, but they were still in the episode.

Nate wrote:Come to think of it, this episode of Pokemon may be the cause of the "Be sure to watch TV with the lights on and sitting a good distance away from the TV" messages at the beginning of anime now.

You know, I thought of His and Her Circumstances when I read that. AT thhe beginning of the show, there's this big black screen card that pops up saying:

Nate wrote:Yeah, a lot of the kids who had problems were watching TV with the lights off and/or sitting too close to the screen.

Come to think of it, this episode of Pokemon may be the cause of the "Be sure to watch TV with the lights on and sitting a good distance away from the TV" messages at the beginning of anime now.

That sounds about right. I had always heard that it was, at least.

They also edited out food like onigiri and renamed it sandwiches, eclairs, and rice balls. Stupid 4kids edits!

If only 700 people were affected then it would be a wise thing if the Japanese health ministry did a study of those 700 who were affected.No-one can get a seizure if they do not already have epilepsy or a predisposition to having seizures.
I think they had it up at the Snopes site and said it was an Urban Myth there and
went through pretty much the same explanation as I just said.Now as I also said not all epileptics have the same triggers.
As far as CNN goes...gee...could you get a source that was a little LESS reliable?

i read heard about this. someone posted the episode on youtube. anyways, i don't really think it's true but whatever...

mitsuki lover wrote:I think they had it up at the Snopes site and said it was an Urban Myth there and
went through pretty much the same explanation as I just said.

Hmm. A real TV news station versus the internet rumor site, Snopes. "could you get a source that was a little LESS reliable?"


You can take the sarcasm dripping from this post as a resounding "no". XD

KeybladeWarrior wrote:They also edited out food like onigiri and renamed it sandwiches, eclairs, and rice balls. Stupid 4kids edits!

Oh yeah...I remember now! There was a season one episode when Ash was loosing his hat to a Primeape or something, and they kept calling the riceball a doughnut! I didn't pay too much attention to it, because at the time I didn't know anything about Japanese cuisine, but now I realize just how DUMB that was!

But, I digress. (along with everyone else). We know that this situation happened--we have documented proof that it did. What I was wondering was wheter or not the episode, after being edited and corrected, should be brought back to air?

ikimasu wrote:2. This was dealing with a form of epilepsy that was not diagnosed in Japan at the time. So obviously, they were not taking meds to prevent this.

[Quote=Nate]Uh, yeah...unless of course, you don't KNOW if you have epilepsy, in which case you aren't TAKING medication. Also the fact that photosensitive seizures have no triggers outside of flashing lights or rapid color switching so most people who have that condition hardly ever have seizures.[/quote]

After reading this, you replied:

mitsuki lover wrote:No-one can get a seizure if they do not already have epilepsy or a predisposition to having seizures.

Reading comprehension. Learn it.

mitsuki lover wrote:I think they had it up at the Snopes site and said it was an Urban Myth there and

No it is not on snopes, which is more reason to believe it is true, and not an urban legend.

I think they cut out the scene where he shows them off to Misty, but they were still in the episode.

I saw the episode when it aired on WB, and I have it saved on a disk. They cut out every scene of James with his inflatable breasts. After Misty's scene on the runway, they cut straight to Koffing and Ekans and then Gary. I think one of the Pokemon fandub sights (maybe Pocketmonsters) created a version of the episode with the cut scenes added back in though.

*sighs heavily*

I can find citations for the incident from CNN, from the Japanese Ministry of Health, and from Reuters. Tell me, are those good enough reliable sources?

As Ryan said, a quick search of Snopes reveals no entries for the Pokemon episode.

Oh look, here's something from Web MD.

July 21, 2004 -- New research suggests that the children in Japan who suffered epileptic seizures after watching a popular Japanese TV cartoon in 1997 would have probably developed seizures regardless of whether they watched the program or not.

. . .

In a letter published in the July 22 issue of The New England Journal of Medicine, researchers report on a five-year follow-up of 91 children who suffered seizures associated with Pokemon.

The children were divided into two groups: 24 who had a history of epilepsy and 67 with no history of the disease.

Of the 91 children who suffered seizures associated with watching the cartoon, 25 had repeat seizures, including 13 of the no-epilepsy group and 12 of the epilepsy group.

Among those with no history of epilepsy, researchers found most recurrences were in patients with a history of seizures associated with fevers before age 12.

So let's see. The New England Journal of Medicine, which should surely meet your criteria for a reliable source, did a study and found that 13 children out of 67 with no history of epilepsy suffered seizures upon viewing of the episode.

Sept. 20, 2005 -- The Epilepsy Foundation has issued new guidelines to help avoid rare cases of seizures triggered by flickering lights from TV and video games.

The guidelines are particularly important for people who are sensitive to light, but "the suggestions are valid for everybody," Giuseppe Erba, MD, tells WebMD.

Hmm...the Epilepsy Foundation has supported the statement that flashing lights from TV episodes can cause rare types of seizures? I would think of anyone in the world who would know about epilepsy, it would be the Epilepsy Foundation. Would you not agree?

So far we have three major news outlets, a prominent medical periodical, and a foundation researching the disease in question proving our statements. You, however, have yet to provide proof of your "urban legend" comment outside of your own experience (which is probably NOT based on medical research or even medical training), and an article which doesn't exist on Snopes.

I'd say it's clear who the evidence favors. Thanks for playing, though, we have some lovely parting gifts for you.

I saw the episode when it aired on WB, and I have it saved on a disk. They cut out every scene of James with his inflatable breasts.

Ah, okay, cool. I hadn't actually seen the episode in question, I just read about it, so I wasn't really sure. Thanks for correcting me. ^^

Nate wrote:Yeah, a lot of the kids who had problems were watching TV with the lights off and/or sitting too close to the screen.

I wonder whether it has anything to do with how much TV you've been watching at one go too. I mean, my eyes start going woozy after staring at the TV screen for 7 hours straight in a row (I learnt that after attempting a LOTR Extended version marathon). If Frodo's Sting started to blink red or something who knows what would have happened to me then.

Of course, I was just kidding at that last sentence. XD

Grave dug a bit.But I still stand by what I previously said.I did a bit of researching on it today and the following appear to be the actual facts:
*Some Japanese schoolchildren DID indeed report seizures after watching the episode but it was less than reported.In fact one one American expert qouted in a
reference found at the Skeptical Inquirer for 2001 estimated that the number
was probably no more than 10 that were actually treated at the hospitals.
*The article went on to indicate that the episode had aired during a period when
most Japanese schoolchildren would have been under stress for getting ready for
their exams.
*The majority of the reported cases did not even START until AFTER the reports
on the news had come out.The conclusion being that it was really a case of
mass hysteria along with stress.
Again you can not simply get an epileptic seizure unless you are predisposed to
have them in the first place.
Those who DID expierence seizures likely had a latent tendency for PSE.This is the only explanation that makes clear and logical sense.The others were from mass
hysteria.In fact if you go look up the article on the Skeptical Inquirer website they include a table that compares and contrasts seizures with what happened and
mass hysteria.
It is rather interesting though,and something that might have been overlooked,that
after this incident Pokemon was put on a bit of hiatus in Japan but afterwards
became even more of a phenomena.So it cannot be ruled out that part of the myth
was deliberately concocted by Ninetendo to increase sales and ratings.

mitsuki lover wrote:Grave dug a bit..

A bit? Good grief, I almost forgot about this topic!

mitsuki lover wrote:It is rather interesting though,and something that might have been overlooked, that
after this incident Pokemon was put on a bit of hiatus in Japan but afterwards
became even more of a phenomena.So it cannot be ruled out that part of the myth
was deliberately concocted by Ninetendo to increase sales and ratings.

The same could be said for Star Trek. When it went off the air after the third season, it's popularity increased with conventions, product sales and not to mention the syndication run. So by the time it came back on the air and the movies came out, Star trek's popularity went through the stratosphere. Same could be said for this particular incident.

Back on topic--the original question I asked was that with the advancement of technology, where animators can replace things in anime with great ease, would the "Banned" episode of Pokemon ever see the light of day?