CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

From AnimeOnDVD:

"Innovative Agreement Will Provide Episodes On A Download To Own/Rent Basis Soon After They Air In Japan

San Francisco, CA, January 10, 2007 – VIZ Media, LLC (VIZ Media), one of the entertainment industry's most innovative and comprehensive publishing, animation and licensing companies, has announced that it has licensed from Nippon Television Network Corporation (NTV) the Download to Own (DTO) and Download to Rent (DTR) rights for the United States for the smash hit DEATH NOTE anime series, currently airing in Japan.

The deal is significant because it marks the first time a well known Japanese anime property will be made legally available to domestic audiences for download to own while the title still airs on Japanese television. VIZ Media will seek to make the series available to consumers through a number of online providers in order to reach the widest audience possible. "


So, I'm guessing that basically what they're tryign to say is that Viz is hosting eps to download and buy after they air? I guess this would mean that it's officially liscensed now, just in a very different way.

That's a pretty good idea, but how much will they cost? XD That's really the main thing I'm worried about. Other than that, though, I'm glad they're finding a way to distribute these things to us faster. I'd probably take the DTR option, simply because I do like to own the DVDs after they're released (not to mention my computer's not the most stable one out there). XD Anyways, I'm interested to see where this'll go. I just need to get a job so I can afford to do it. XD

Also, will they be direct downloads, or torrents? If it's the former, then it's a major improvement, since torrents usually go so slowly for me. XD

Well I'm sure that's gonna annoy some fansub groups. Especially the one already subbing death note.

Well, if this isn't a license I don't know what is... clever on Viz's behalf, provided they don't overcharge for the episodes.

That could be really cool if Viz does it right.

This does have good potential; it's not surprising that someone is starting to offer legal downloads of video files. Since we already have ways to buy and download music online, it's only logical that the next step would be to offer similar services with video files. I do hope they offer direct downloads, though, since some firewalls don't allow torrents.

I HIGHLY DOUBT they'll use torrents.

This is really cool, I think. If nothing else, it's unique.

I really prefer to have a hardcopy of stuff I own, so I'm not really interested in download-to-own...that being said, if the price is reasonable, considering they said that it'll allow them to release it close to the Japanese release, I'm VERY interested in download-to-rent. It'd be fun to be able to keep up with the releases as the show's being shown in Japan...in a way I don't feel guilty. ^^;
(I'm basically just repeating what I said in my blog, but oh well. XD)

RELEASE ANIME IN THE STATES SHORTLY AFTER IT'S RELEASED IN JAPAN!? WHAT A NOVEL IDEA! Viz is so innovative!


Oh, wait, fansubbers/dubbers have been doing that for ages. XD Honestly, I am quite surprised that it's taken this long for domestic companies to do what fansubbers have been doing for years now.


Yes, welcome, Viz. You're one step closer to catching up with the fans.

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:Well I'm sure that's gonna annoy some fansub groups. Especially the one already subbing death note.

Yeah, probably, but they won't really have any ground to grumble. I think you deserve what you get when you start subbing a show that will undoubtably be licensed (undoubtably=based on a very popular manga that's already licensed in the states and preforming very well.)

Mangafanatic wrote:RELEASE ANIME IN THE STATES SHORTLY AFTER IT'S RELEASED IN JAPAN!? WHAT A NOVEL IDEA! Viz is so innovative!


Oh, wait, fansubbers/dubbers have been doing that for ages. XD Honestly, I am quite surprised that it's taken this long for domestic companies to do what fansubbers have been doing for years now.


Yes, welcome, Viz. You're one step closer to catching up with the fans.

XD Seriously. I'm hoping that the other licensing companies will see what Viz is doing and follow suit. I'm really hoping this endeavor on Viz's part will catch on in the anime world.

Mangafanatic wrote:Oh, wait, fansubbers/dubbers have been doing that for ages. XD Honestly, I am quite surprised that it's taken this long for domestic companies to do what fansubbers have been doing for years now.

Fansubbers will always have the edge on speed, because they're operating on the wrong side of the law (at least in the USA) and don't need to jump through licensing hoops, not to mention the need to hire and record a dub cast.

I personally would rather see localization done right, not fast.

Disclaimer: I do watch fansubs on occasion, I just think that the attitude pressing R1 companies to release faster and faster does not reflect a Christian attitude of patience.

TriezGamer wrote:Disclaimer: I do watch fansubs on occasion, I just think that the attitude pressing R1 companies to release faster and faster does not reflect a Christian attitude of patience.

It has nothing to do with patience. It's all about marketing and the economy. They want to release them quicker because people will probably buy them. People buying = them making money.

Interesting scheme if you ask me.

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:It has nothing to do with patience. It's all about marketing and the economy. They want to release them quicker because people will probably buy them. People buying = them making money.

Interesting scheme if you ask me.

I recognize that as a valid point, and I won't argue. It's just that demanding an R1 release within 3-6 months of the original airing date is a little bit ridiculous in my opinion. As it is the turnaround time for anime has been dropping steadily over the last decade. I remember a time when it wasn't uncommon for nearly three years to pass between the air date and the release of the final disc, even for shorter series.

Edit: I think I missed another one of your points at first -- I'm not arguing with Viz's decision here, I think it's a good one -- if they handle it correctly. But the impression I often get from people is that of demanding licenses and DVDs as if it were owed to them -- and though it may have looked like it at first, I'm not directing these statements at Mangafanatic, it's just that MF's post reminded me of how much the attitude annoys me.

My word I've been waiting for this for forever... *rolls eyes* It's not like it's entirely original, but props to Viz for actually pulling through on it. Now they need to do the same with manga....

Hm Interesting I wonder how would it all work out?

TriezGamer wrote:I recognize that as a valid point, and I won't argue. It's just that demanding an R1 release within 3-6 months of the original airing date is a little bit ridiculous in my opinion.

Sorry to bring this up ^^]Cowboy Bebop[/i] in the U.S. when it first aired in Japan. Due to the fact that the consumers are demanding popular titles such as Death Note as soon as they air in Japan (thanks to the internet) the Region-1 Distributors wants to meet these demands before any other company acquires it. Viz also believes that by targeting the fansub audience, they can gain more popularity, leading to more money.

Also, for many fansub fans, they get their episodes weekly, many times only a DAY after the air-date. (Naruto, Bleach, Monster, etc etc etc) So I don't see 3-6 months that fast at all. Though it would be in terms of localizing a series to R1.

During the time when Monster was still airing on Japanese television, that was when I got hooked on it. I'll be quite frank. I did NOT want to wait A few months or years to see the next episodes/whole series. I wanted to finish what I started! I was not going to wait for it to be localized on R1 DVDs, I wanted to finish it, because I found it to be a great series.

Now I don't see anything wrong with that. I think I'm being patient, as I'm patiently waiting for the R1 dvds so I can go purchase them

But even with something I haven't seen before. If people tell me that an anime like D.grayman or Yamato Nadeshiko Shichi Henge (Both currently unlicensed as of January 11) are great, and I read a bit about it. I don't want to wait a year or two for it to appear in American on a slow basis that requires me to wait a few months for each dvd. By that time I'll forget what happened in the prior episodes. Thus why I download fansubs of shows I like.

Another example: Bleach. I'm not going to wait for the American episodes to reach episode 110. Why should I wait for Adult Swim to reach that episode when in Japan it will be airing that next week?

I honestly don't see myself being too impatient in these situations.

But the impression I often get from people is that of demanding licenses and DVDs as if it were owed to them -- and though it may have looked like it at first, I'm not directing these statements at Mangafanatic, it's just that MF's post reminded me of how much the attitude annoys me.

I don't see that being the situation. Like I said before ^_^ people demand these titles much earlier now, so companies are taking a step into releasing them faster to meet the demanding market. Moolah moolah moolah! XD

I have a bad feeling this just ain't gonna work,

In the greedy fandom that is anime, I doubt most people downloading fansubs will stop watching because now they have the option to legally pay for the exact same service. At least with DVD releases you have bonuses, admitedly that greatly depends on the effort on par by the distrubutor. There's also the fact its not a hard copy, and that doesn't go with alot of people. Hardcopies you can display proudly, it builds up your collection, its a reflection of what you've worked for, purely digital is meh, someone downloaded it for free anyways. I'd at least like to have something to show for my work.

If they release it over Itunes... I will think about buying it. It really depends on the resolution of the video as to whether I go for DVD or DL.

mechana2015 wrote:If they release it over Itunes... I will think about buying it. It really depends on the resolution of the video as to whether I go for DVD or DL.

Itunes, or something like it, would be my guess as to how they'd do it. However, while 1.99 doesn't sound bad for one episode... that seems like its get a little pricey after a while. Hopefully it won't get to the point where someone has to choose between eatting and the next episode of Death Note. XD (CHOOSE FOOD! L ISN'T WORTH IT!)

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:Due to the fact that the consumers are demanding popular titles such as Death Note as soon as they air in Japan (thanks to the internet) the Region-1 Distributors wants to meet these demands before any other company acquires it.

This isn't a valid argument, as all you have to do is license the show to keep the marketshare -- you don't have to release it immediately to prevent other companies from snatching it. The underlying point being to grab the license as soon as possible, which is understandable, still does not change the fact that a proper localization (in my opinion) includes dubbing (among other things), which takes time to do properly, and I think rushing releases further than they already are paced is only going to be a detriment to the dub. While sub fans need not care about this issue, it's a pretty important subject for dub fans. I recall reading a report (and I wish I could remember where it was so I could give you a cited source) that with DVD purchases, more people are interested in the dub than the subtitles. I would presume because sub fans have other outlets, such as fansubs.

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:Viz also believes that by targeting the fansub audience, they can gain more popularity, leading to more money.

And this is where I don't think Viz is going to be terribly successful here. For every person willing to pay for a subtitled episode of a popular show, there will be 10 people (I figure this to even be a conservative estimate) who aren't willing to pay, when the fansubbers release shows for free, and even faster than Viz is anyway. If Viz (or any other company) wishes to stay ahead of the fansubbers, they are going to have to be on par, or even ahead of, the Japanese air dates -- and even then, many people will simply opt for the free fansubs.

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:During the time when Monster was still airing on Japanese television, that was when I got hooked on it. I'll be quite frank. I did NOT want to wait A few months or years to see the next episodes/whole series. I wanted to finish what I started! I was not going to wait for it to be localized on R1 DVDs, I wanted to finish it, because I found it to be a great series.

Now I don't see anything wrong with that. I think I'm being patient, as I'm patiently waiting for the R1 dvds so I can go purchase them

It's real easy to be patient -- when you've already got another outlet for watching something. But not everyone is willing to watch fansubs (many people won't touch them at all), and different people have different policies on what they will and will not watch fansubbed -- For instance, I will stop watching a show when the license is announced, and if I care enough, I'll buy it later. It's just my personal policy. I would wager those who don't touch fansubs at all are the ones with true patience -- though impatience certainly rears it's head with me when shows are good and are licensed before they finish airing (Utawarerumono, I'm looking at you).

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:But even with something I haven't seen before. If people tell me that an anime like D.grayman or Yamato Nadeshiko Shichi Henge (Both currently unlicensed as of January 11) are great, and I read a bit about it. I don't want to wait a year or two for it to appear in American on a slow basis that requires me to wait a few months for each dvd. By that time I'll forget what happened in the prior episodes. Thus why I download fansubs of shows I like.

Certainly, if the show was unlicensed, I would do the same -- but the solution I use when a show is licensed is to simply wait for all the DVDs to be released and then buy them -- if a show is good, it'll be good when the DVD release is finished still. No waiting needed once I start the series, and if I buy them one at a time, and it turns out to suck, no loss.

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:Another example: Bleach. I'm not going to wait for the American episodes to reach episode 110. Why should I wait for Adult Swim to reach that episode when in Japan it will be airing that next week?

I honestly don't see myself being too impatient in these situations.

Well, that depends on the viewpoint -- If you simply ignore the fact that Bleach is airing in Japan, and simply watch what is on CN, then you're still getting one episode a week -- of course, that's assuming CN doesn't stop and start doing re-runs in the middle of the series like they did with Inuyasha.


Ultimately, in the end, we all have our own standards on fansub/dvdsub/dub issues and how we handle them. I guess I just like to put my thoughts down to sort my crazy mind out -- And you just happened to be the one willing to discuss these things. I hope you understand I bear no ill-will toward you and that this is just how I see things.

TriezGamer wrote:And this is where I don't think Viz is going to be terribly successful here. For every person willing to pay for a subtitled episode of a popular show, there will be 10 people (I figure this to even be a conservative estimate) who aren't willing to pay, when the fansubbers release shows for free, and even faster than Viz is anyway. If Viz (or any other company) wishes to stay ahead of the fansubbers, they are going to have to be on par, or even ahead of, the Japanese air dates -- and even then, many people will simply opt for the free fansubs.

Well, that's partially true, yet you must remember that most fansub groups will cease all fansubbing of a series once that series is licensed. As this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Live-eviL and other groups currently working on Death Note stopped their releases altogether. Viz would end up with the monopoly on Death Note, since they'd be the only legal way (and perhaps the only possible way, if they decide to take action on fansubbers who would be "stealing" their market more directly now) to obtain the show. Just my two cents.

If you simply ignore the fact that Bleach is airing in Japan, and simply watch what is on CN, then you're still getting one episode a week -- of course, that's assuming CN doesn't stop and start doing re-runs in the middle of the series like they did with Inuyasha.

I don't see that as a valid point. I don't wish to jump back to episode 29 when I'm already at episode 110. I'd rather watch where I left off then watch 80-some more episodes (In english dubbing, yuck!) I like to watch bleach for plot development, not random cartoon-watching.

And this is where I don't think Viz is going to be terribly successful here. For every person willing to pay for a subtitled episode of a popular show, there will be 10 people (I figure this to even be a conservative estimate) who aren't willing to pay, when the fansubbers release shows for free, and even faster than Viz is anyway. If Viz (or any other company) wishes to stay ahead of the fansubbers, they are going to have to be on par, or even ahead of, the Japanese air dates -- and even then, many people will simply opt for the free fansubs.

Frankly, it all depends on what legal actions Viz (or the Japanese Television Network or the animation company) decides to do against these fansubbers. Most fansub fans don't know how to get fansubs besides a website or two.

Ultimately, in the end, we all have our own standards on fansub/dvdsub/dub issues and how we handle them.

Right, I agree. But you said (or implied) that people who downloaded weekly fansubs were impatient, and that I took minor offense to. I wouldn't necessarily find myself impatient, as I'm not anxiously waiting till next Tuesday for Bleach 111 to come out. To me it's like "Oh Bleach 111 is out, may as well download it to watch it then delete it when it's over". (Though that would technically be illegal) I don't find it any different (on terms of patience*) than somebody going "Oh Bleach episode 15 is on TV! Gotta watch it!"

*Unless your whole argument is patience in relevance to legal standards, then I suppose that would make some changes.

Radical Dreamer wrote:Well, that's partially true, yet you must remember that most fansub groups will cease all fansubbing of a series once that series is licensed. As this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Live-eviL and other groups currently working on Death Note stopped their releases altogether. Viz would end up with the monopoly on Death Note, since they'd be the only legal way (and perhaps the only possible way, if they decide to take action on fansubbers who would be "stealing" their market more directly now) to obtain the show. Just my two cents.

Well, this is true for some shows. But, this isn't always the case. Naruto and Bleach are the classic examples. Fansub groups still continue to sub both series long after they have been licensed.
Death Note is popular enough that I wouldn't be surprised if several fansub groups continue to work on it. If I recall right, didn't Death Note have the most fansub groups working on it of all the shows last season?

As for the legal thing, I don't remember Viz ever taking action against fansubbers before, although I could have missed something.

MasterDias wrote:As for the legal thing, I don't remember Viz ever taking action against fansubbers before, although I could have missed something.

I'm not sure if they did either, but I'm guessing that they would, since they're going online with their sales. The fansubbers would be more directly hurting their profits, I suppose, and I think they'd probably find some reason to take legal action against them for that. Just a guess, though. XD

I think the only way they will beat out the fansubbers is to offer a similar service, but better. While there are certainly exceptions to the rule, most of the time cost=less appealing.

That said, I think that they will have limited success with this. The only way they will surpass the establish fan subbing community would be to offer the same service, with some sort of incentive to get it directly from viz. I think that the service would be most successful if:

1. Free to direct download from fast servers.

Many people avoid fansubs due to the method of choice for distribution: bittorrent. They find it complicated, slow, and too troublesome in general. Those that currently DL fansubs are accustomed to getting it free. The cost of distribution should be paid for through ad-banners on the site itself and commercials spliced into the episode. Attract enough attention, and it will be the same as making a profit off of public television.

2. Fast translation for subtitles.

Spend a week on translations at max. This should allow ample time to provide a solid and comprehensive translation. Heck, they have the advantage of having access to the script, so it could potentially be released side by side with the Japanese broadcast.

I think it is entirely possible for this to work out well for them. I just don't think that they are going to be willing to do what it takes. Not everyone is willing to spend 1.99 on a 20 minute episode every week. That seems a bit expensive overall to me. 1.99 x 24 = 47.76 for a season. No disks, no special features, and low (when compared to dvd) quality. I, for one, refuse to pay that price. Give me a physical disk that I can watch anywhere with DVD quality picture and sound, then we can talk.

http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/9891.html

DVDs are coming, but later.

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:But you said (or implied) that people who downloaded weekly fansubs were impatient, and that I took minor offense to.

Well, that's half the problem then -- What I meant to say was that people need to stop being so impatient about the turnaround time from licensing to a DVD release. I'm a fairly avid fansub watcher myself.

As far as my comments about Bleach on CN, that was a more generalized comment at to a method for approaching the situation, not a solution for someone who's already at episode 110.

I don't know about you,

But Viz will get their pocket money from me when they release their DVD's, until then, I couldn't care less if its licensced or not! I'm impatient, I admit it, and I want it now! Give me Death Note, or give me Death! (lets just hope I don't keel over from a heart attack 40 seconds later eh?)

Kai Robin wrote:Give me Death Note, or give me Death! (lets just hope I don't keel over from a heart attack 40 seconds later eh?)

*hands Kai Robin a paper bag*

Breath in and breath out, Kai-san!


I think its funny how icv2.com and ANN have reported the DVDs are coming, but it will be later down the road. Do people not think that Viz wouldn't release them on dvd?

The only thing that bugs me is, I don't want them to rush out do a bad sub job. I think this is a good idea to give the fans a look at, untill the dvds come out.

I think Viz knows this could be a good idea, if they do it right.

Viz CEO: You know, since we have the rights to Death Note. Lets put on the net in sub only format, so that fans can see it and not have to wait for the dvd's.

Viz rep: Watch anime on the net and tick off the fansubers at the same!

Viz CEO: Yes

Viz rep: BRILLIANT!


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