CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Tried to have this discussion on another forum, but didn't really state the purpose of the thread clearly enough. Figured I'd give it another shot here with more clarification.

Myself wrote:Needlessly sad endings abound. Senseless and needless are two drastically different things.

Senseless -- Without sense. Things do not progress logically.

Needless -- Without need. Things progress in a logical fashion toward a goal that has no apparent purpose.

The difference is quite critical. Something that is 'sad for the sake of being sad' -- or 'happy for the sake of being happy' is usually needless, not senseless. Needless is also much more subjective than senseless.

Does anyone else hate a senseless happy ending? In particular, I'm referring to shows where a happy ending doesn't seem like the likely or logical outcome of a scenario, yet for whatever reason the writers choose to take that approach?

I have nothing against happy endings in general, but I feel that sad endings tend to have a lot more impact on the way I think about things, so when a happy ending with little to no sufficient explanation happens, I find myself disappointed with the series ending.

I've never seen a senseless sad ending, but I'm sure they exist too.

I'm going to use Please Teacher as an example of what I think is a very senseless ending, as well as why I think it's senseless, and alternatives that could have made it better.
Spoilers: Please Teacher Ending
[spoiler]Intro to Episode 12: DESPITE HER CRIMES BEING WORTHY OF BEING PUT TO DEATH, Mizuho is simply stripped of her position as Earth's observer and Earth's memory of her is 'sealed away'. Mizuho returns to Earth later. Kei sees her and suddenly remembers everything he had forgotten.[/spoiler]
Why it doesn't make sense:
[spoiler]Mizuho returns to Earth. How she accomplishes this is never explained, which doesn't flow logically, since the odds of returning to Earth from her home planet, undetected, doesn't seem likely -- Especially given the severity of her crimes. The fact that she is allowed to CONTINUE remaining on Earth is even more ridiculous, but is obviously the case given Episode 13 and Please Twins.[/spoiler]
Simple Alternative: Unhappy End
[spoiler]Mizuho doesn't return. This ending is what I think should have logically followed the verdict given to Mizuho. If a happier ending (though still bittersweet) is necessary, the writer could have chosen to pursue the chemistry between Kei and Ichigo as a potential relationship. This ending also VERY heavily follows the show's overall theme of 'moving forward without looking back'. This is actually the ending I think would have fit the series best.[/spoiler]
Another Alternative: Happy End
[spoiler]Mizuho's punishment is instead also having her own memories of Earth wiped (possibly undergoing some sort of re-orientation as an observer) and then subsequent reassignment to Earth without any memories of her previous life there. Mizuho and Kei, upon seeing eachother, have their memories return. It could also be somehow worked in that only because Mizuho is half-human was this possible, although this particular "power of humanity" element isn't necessary, unless one wishes to show why the aliens would not expect their memories to return. This ending would have made much more sense, and wouldn't have left such a disjointed mess of logical fallacy.[/spoiler]

I felt this way about Mahoromatic.

[SPOILER]The whole "Saint is really the alter-ego of Mahoro" thing just came completely out of nowhere and seemed to be something tacked on for no other reason than to allow her to come back. I also find it hard to believe Suguru would just willingly accept Mahoro's return after all that time, considering she was the entire reason he became what he was. I honestly feel he wouldn't have forgiven her that easily, or perhaps thought it was a trick of some sort.[/SPOILER]

I agree with you on that one. Mahoromatic's second season felt horribly rushed, and the final episode felt totally out of place (though it was interesting).

Generally speaking I do, especially when the happy ending forced on the story cheapens what has gone on or seems to ignore all the bad that has happened. At the moment I don't have any examples worth sharing.

On the subject of Please Teacher (the manga of which I read for no real reason), I actually disagree with you. Sure, the way she comes back seems unrealistic, but I had a much bigger problem with the whole issue of the trial and crimes in the first place. After having never been mentioned before it is abruptly added at the end. I think it was invented in order to have a final obstacle in the way of the protagonists and is a pointless emotionally manipulative move that feels false. Hence I was still coasting on that and the resolution to that problem didn't bother me.

uc pseudonym wrote:On the subject of Please Teacher (the manga of which I read for no real reason), I actually disagree with you. Sure, the way she comes back seems unrealistic, but I had a much bigger problem with the whole issue of the trial and crimes in the first place. After having never been mentioned before it is abruptly added at the end.

It is mentioned early in the series (Episode 1 even, I believe) that being discovered by humans is not allowed. Thus the 'crime' has been occuring since Day 1.

I think it was invented in order to have a final obstacle in the way of the protagonists and is a pointless emotionally manipulative move that feels false. Hence I was still coasting on that and the resolution to that problem didn't bother me.

Oh, I agree that it was a final obstacle that didn't need to be there, but given that it WAS there, I think it was resolved quite poorly.

TriezGamer wrote:I agree with you on that one. Mahoromatic's second season felt horribly rushed, and the final episode felt totally out of place (though it was interesting).

I didn't mind the second season, actually, though I wish it had been more like the manga (regarding his friends finding out the truth about Mahoro and the like). I actually really liked the final episode, showing what Suguru had become over the years, but again, the happy ending randomly thrown in totally seemed out of place (and again, unlike the manga, the anime never shows his other friends, aside from their voices during the credits montage, and they still all sound like kids).

While we're at it, Saber Marionette J kinda felt that way too. I know it was explained in the later series, but it really didn't make a whole lot of sense if you just saw the first series.

Seeing the commercial of please teacher, I already know that the series is gonna end will be all but sensible. Anime that has lots of fanservice tends to end in an impossibly "happy" ending too. btw, I hate shows like these and I never watched a single episode.

It seemed like the creator ran out of ideas, and simply wanted to end it as it is.

I've never watched either or those animes, but when me and my family watched last exile, we were really disappointed with the ending. It seemed to me that the writer just got tired of the story and decided to just end it, so I guess that would count as a sensless ending.

I tend to dislike endings in general =p

No I'm kidding. Yes senseless and needless happy endings suck. I generally prefer sad or depressing endings in general.

Actually the ending for Last Exile does have a bit of melancholy sadness to it.

[spoiler]Remember both Dio and Alex die in the course of the final episodes.Dio's death is especially sad.Then in one of the final scenes they are shown at Alex' grave.[/spoiler]

ML lets use some spoiler tags. You're lucky I have no interest in watching Last Exile

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:Yes senseless and needless happy endings suck. I generally prefer sad or depressing endings in general.

Eh...those can irritate me just as much. I thought Cowboy Bebop had the perfect ending, but the whole "main character dies" ending that a million anime seem to have these days really irritates me.

I don't think I prefer happy or sad endings, particularly. However, some series seem to have a tone that makes one kind more fitting, so I have preferences in those cases. Overall, I dislike it equally when endings have a senseless happy ending and when they have a senseless unhappy ending. Sometimes it seems as though the author wants to "buck convention" by having an unhappy ending and thus adds something completely pointless to make things sadder.

TriezGamer wrote:It is mentioned early in the series (Episode 1 even, I believe) that being discovered by humans is not allowed. Thus the 'crime' has been occuring since Day 1.

Ah. Though I'm not certain, I think that was added to the anime (or at least I have no memory of it in the manga), possibly to make the ending seem smoother.

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:ML lets use some spoiler tags. You're lucky I have no interest in watching Last Exile

This suggestion has been enforced.

I hate senseless happy endings about as much as I hate senseless depressing endings.

Possibly slightly less so, because I find fewer happy endings in anime in general. (That I watch.)

kaemmerite wrote:Eh...those can irritate me just as much. I thought Cowboy Bebop had the perfect ending, but the whole "main character dies" ending that a million anime seem to have these days really irritates me.

Well I meant a sensible sad/depressing/glum ending.

Can I say.. Fruits basket's "Happy Ending" was very...abrubt...I would hav eloved to see more, and I really feel as though they NEED to add more...considering the anime ended when the manga was on Vol 6..and there is now like 22 volumes..^^:

I can't use spoiler tags because my computer isn't working properly.Besides I think the use of them is beside the fact for now.

i agree with christianronin, i watched the whole series of fruits basket and when i saw the last episode i was like "is that it?!.....oooookay", but i think it would have to do with the mood of the series itself....if the show is gloomy i don't expect a cheesy ending, if the show is chessy i expect a cheesy ending.....so it doesn't really drive me crazy, it's more like it's too predictable

Furuba has a crappy ending because they had to cut it short. The manga wasn't finished yet and they didn't have any more material for the anime.

(The manga is better anyway. :p)