CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

i wasn't sure if i should continue off an already-started thread on this movie or if i could just start a new thread on the movie so i decided to start a new thread. anyways, this thread is to discuss the movie and what aspects of the movie you liked and, if you were confused by certain parts of the movie, to clear up those things. so, if those Bebop fans out there would please join in this thread, it would be much appreciated.
anyways, i will start by saying that the movie was absolutely spectacular. all my favorite characters were in there and a few new faces were introduced. i loved the final, climatic battle and the music was VERY well done. i was used to watching the dubbed version of the anime series so when i watched the movie subtitled i was a little surprised. however, i do believe that the subtitled voices were just as good, maybe even better, as the english dubbing.
now, there were some parts of the movie that i didn't understand and that is the main reason why i started this thread. most of the confusing parts of the movie will probably have to be in spoiler boxes but i will start with asking this, what do the golden butterflies represent? (this isn't a spoiler right?...)

thanks

I too was pleasantly surprised at the quality of the movie when it came out and marveled at the battles. The dogfight is just..oooh! As for the golden butterflies....

[spoiler]In the movie, the scientist claims they are a hallucination caused by the nano virus when it enters the brain...kinda like seeing spots only instead, sparkling butterflies. Whether they chose butterflies simply to be artistic, or to symbolize something more, such as fleeting dreams, I'm not entirely sure. I know Vincent says he sees them all the time, but I think that it's primarily an indicative of his not living in the reality, and that the nanos have messed up his life big-time.[/spoiler]

I think esoteric hit the nail on the head for the butterflies.

I love this move. It is, honestly, better than most american action movies by far, and the battles are fantastic.
The opening with the robbery is hilarious.

The movie was great Vincent easily rivaled and maybe *hides from hurled objects* eve surpasses Vicious as best villian

mechana2015 wrote:The opening with the robbery is hilarious.

Yeees, yes it is. XD

Anyways, I enjoyed this movie when I saw it last year sometime. I haven't seen it since, so I've forgotten some things, but yeah. I wouldn't call it my favorite movie of all time or anything, but it was good.

Esoteric wrote:I too was pleasantly surprised at the quality of the movie when it came out and marveled at the battles. The dogfight is just..oooh! As for the golden butterflies....

[spoiler]In the movie, the scientist claims they are a hallucination caused by the nano virus when it enters the brain...kinda like seeing spots only instead, sparkling butterflies. Whether they chose butterflies simply to be artistic, or to symbolize something more, such as fleeting dreams, I'm not entirely sure. I know Vincent says he sees them all the time, but I think that it's primarily an indicative of his not living in the reality, and that the nanos have messed up his life big-time.[/spoiler]

okay i understand a little better now. but...

[spoiler]doesn't vincent have some sorta vaccine in his blood that renders the virus unaffective against him? that's why when the bombs went off, he didn't start coughing and stuff. if this is true, why does he still see the butterflies?[/spoiler]

also, i have another question...

[spoiler]why did spike and electra get arrested? the movie said that they got arrested because they had an antivirus in their body similar to vincent's right? if so, then why did spike start to hallucinate during his final fight with vincent? and how did vincent give faye some of his blood so that faye didn't die when she entered vincent and lee's hideout?[/spoiler]

Well...
[spoiler=Esoteric]Yes, that is one unexplained portion of the plot. He was immune to death from the nanos, but also remember he was an early test subject. During his time on Titan, he underwent severe mental and physical stresses...perhaps he had permanant brain damage resulting the condition. I agree the details as to why he still sees them are unclear, but then again he's crazy, so...[/spoiler]
And...
[spoiler=Esoteric]They were arrested because they knew too much. Cherious(sp?) Medical had been involved in the illegal manufacture of biological weapons. Both Cherious and the military wanted to keep this a secret. They intended to kill Spike and Electra, or erase their memories. And only Electra had the vaccine in her blood, not Spike. The only reason Electra had it was because she'd come in contact(most likely intimate) with Vincent before/during the war when he had the vaccine.

How did Faye get the vaccine from Vincent's blood? Well...she shoots his hand...he licks his hand...he kisses Faye with blood in his mouth. =vaccine transference.[/spoiler]

I thought it was a good movie. While inferior to the series (as expected), it's the best job they could've done.

The R rating alone was my least favorite aspect. I felt guilty watching it and after fully viewing, I think it should've been a PG-13.

I still belive Vincent was the best villan in Cowboy Bebop. Yes, better then Vicious.

Esoteric wrote:Well...
[spoiler=Esoteric]Yes, that is one unexplained portion of the plot. He was immune to death from the nanos, but also remember he was an early test subject. During his time on Titan, he underwent severe mental and physical stresses...perhaps he had permanant brain damage resulting the condition. I agree the details as to why he still sees them are unclear, but then again he's crazy, so...[/spoiler]

well, i suppose that's the best explanation for the butterflies. thanks.

And...
[spoiler=Esoteric]They were arrested because they knew too much. Cherious(sp?) Medical had been involved in the illegal manufacture of biological weapons. Both Cherious and the military wanted to keep this a secret. They intended to kill Spike and Electra, or erase their memories. And only Electra had the vaccine in her blood, not Spike. The only reason Electra had it was because she'd come in contact(most likely intimate) with Vincent before/during the war when he had the vaccine.

How did Faye get the vaccine from Vincent's blood? Well...she shoots his hand...he licks his hand...he kisses Faye with blood in his mouth. =vaccine transference.[/spoiler]

okay. i understand that better now. but i have another question...

[spoiler]who was that shady character who gave spike that vase and told spike about vincent's background? was he just some random guy who happened to know vincent or what?[/spoiler]

i agree with shatterheart and grubb about vincent being better than vicious.

who was that shady character who gave spike that vase and told spike about vincent's background? was he just some random guy who happened to know vincent or what?

Are you refering to the Morrocan? (I can't think of his name right now). He is in no way a random character.

[spoiler]He was the scientist which developed the nano weapon for Cherious medical. He created the nano machines as well as the vaccine which he administered to Vincent before the weapons were tested on the soldiers at Titan. The Morrocan realized the creation of such a weapon was a dangerous mistake. So he ran from Cherious. When he did so, he was unable to destroy the nano weapon to prevent it's use. He was however, able to destroy the vaccine he'd developed. By doing this, he hoped Cherious would be forced never to use it, (since they wouldn't be able to protect their own people from it once released). This strategy worked, until Vincent stole the nanos. Since the Morrocan was being hunted by Cherious, he couldn't reveal his identity straight out. He gave Spike the vase with it's dangerous contents in hopes he would put the pieces together. [/spoiler]

Esoteric wrote:who was that shady character who gave spike that vase and told spike about vincent's background? was he just some random guy who happened to know vincent or what?

Are you refering to the Morrocan? (I can't think of his name right now). He is in no way a random character.

[spoiler]He was the scientist which developed the nano weapon for Cherious medical. He created the nano machines as well as the vaccine which he administered to Vincent before the weapons were tested on the soldiers at Titan. The Morrocan realized the creation of such a weapon was a dangerous mistake. So he ran from Cherious. When he did so, he was unable to destroy the nano weapon to prevent it's use. He was however, able to destroy the vaccine he'd developed. By doing this, he hoped Cherious would be forced never to use it, (since they wouldn't be able to protect their own people from it once released). This strategy worked, until Vincent stole the nanos. Since the Morrocan was being hunted by Cherious, he couldn't reveal his identity straight out. He gave Spike the vase with it's dangerous contents in hopes he would put the pieces together. [/spoiler]

[spoiler]Okay. Then how did he know that spike was going to come to him to ask him about Vincent? Or was that a coincidence? Also, when Cherious arrested spike, why didn’t they arrest the Morrocan also? Next, did the Morrocan administer the vaccine to Vincent, or the nano machines? Or did he give them both to Vincent? And why did he give them to Vincent in the first place? Finally, I thought Lee created the nano machines? Or did lee create something else?[/spoiler]

sorry I’m bombarding you with all these questions. It’s just...sorta confusing to me.

jon_jinn wrote:[spoiler]Okay. Then how did he know that spike was going to come to him to ask him about Vincent? Or was that a coincidence? Also, when Cherious arrested spike, why didn’t they arrest the Morrocan also? Next, did the Morrocan administer the vaccine to Vincent, or the nano machines? Or did he give them both to Vincent? And why did he give them to Vincent in the first place? Finally, I thought Lee created the nano machines? Or did lee create something else?[/spoiler]

sorry I’m bombarding you with all these questions. It’s just...sorta confusing to me.

Whew. Okay...
[spoiler]
Spike had been asking around town all day. The Morrocan likely noticed and observed him for a while to determine if he was truly a third party. By that I mean not working for Cherious or Vincent. The Morrocan apparently decided to give Spike a clue (the vase) in hopes that as a bounty hunter, he might actually be able to do something about Vincent.
When Cherious arrested Spike, they killed the Morrocan. Remember the gunshots before the soldiers surrounded Spike? They'd been hunting him a long time and...finally got him.

The Morrocan was ordered to create the nano machines weapons for the military. On the side, he apparently also created the vaccine, however, he didn't give that to the military. Why didn't he give them the vaccine too? I dunno. Maybe they didn't ask for one, since before Vincent altered the nanos, they were designed to have a pretty short live outside of a human body (this is why when the tanker exploded, only a few hundred were infected, not the whole city. After that attack, Vincent somehow managed to alter the nanos so that they wouldn't die off in the atmosphere, hence the serious need for a vaccine when he later blows up the pumpkin balloons.)
As to when the Morrocan gave Vincent the vaccine, it's unclear. But it's plausible to assume he met Vincent before the war on Titan.
The Morrocan knew the nano weapons would be tested on Titan, and if he knew Vincent was going to be sent there, it's plausible to assume he administered the vaccine to him before he departed to Titan. Why only Vincent? We don't know. The Morrocan seems to know a lot about Vincent, but doesn't appear to regard him with much sentiment, so I doubt they were close friends. Perhaps he gave Vincent the vaccine just to see if it would actually work...if he would survive on Titan when the military released the nanos. The motive is never completely spelled out, but something along these lines in likely.
As for Lee, he's not a scientist, he's a hacker. Vincent needed someone with good hacking skills to help him administer his little challenge to the world. So he hired Lee to help him with the details, like obtaining credit cards, information and security bypasses, whatever he needed in terms of technology support. Why did Lee do it? Because he was foolish punk who wanted to make a name for himself by pulling off a major hack job. Vincent lets him hack the entire Mars computer network to deliver Vincent's "Trick or Treat" message, which was a dare for anyone trying to stop him. After Lee accomplishes this, well his usefulness run out... [/spoiler]

Yeah, that was a lot of questions, but that's okay. The plot is actually very complex and I had to watch the movie a couple times before I could put all the pieces together myself.

Esoteric wrote:Whew. Okay...
[spoiler]
Spike had been asking around town all day. The Morrocan likely noticed and observed him for a while to determine if he was truly a third party. By that I mean not working for Cherious or Vincent. The Morrocan apparently decided to give Spike a clue (the vase) in hopes that as a bounty hunter, he might actually be able to do something about Vincent.
When Cherious arrested Spike, they killed the Morrocan. Remember the gunshots before the soldiers surrounded Spike? They'd been hunting him a long time and...finally got him.

The Morrocan was ordered to create the nano machines weapons for the military. On the side, he apparently also created the vaccine, however, he didn't give that to the military. Why didn't he give them the vaccine too? I dunno. Maybe they didn't ask for one, since before Vincent altered the nanos, they were designed to have a pretty short live outside of a human body (this is why when the tanker exploded, only a few hundred were infected, not the whole city. After that attack, Vincent somehow managed to alter the nanos so that they wouldn't die off in the atmosphere, hence the serious need for a vaccine when he later blows up the pumpkin balloons.)
As to when the Morrocan gave Vincent the vaccine, it's unclear. But it's plausible to assume he met Vincent before the war on Titan.
The Morrocan knew the nano weapons would be tested on Titan, and if he knew Vincent was going to be sent there, it's plausible to assume he administered the vaccine to him before he departed to Titan. Why only Vincent? We don't know. The Morrocan seems to know a lot about Vincent, but doesn't appear to regard him with much sentiment, so I doubt they were close friends. Perhaps he gave Vincent the vaccine just to see if it would actually work...if he would survive on Titan when the military released the nanos. The motive is never completely spelled out, but something along these lines in likely.
As for Lee, he's not a scientist, he's a hacker. Vincent needed someone with good hacking skills to help him administer his little challenge to the world. So he hired Lee to help him with the details, like obtaining credit cards, information and security bypasses, whatever he needed in terms of technology support. Why did Lee do it? Because he was foolish punk who wanted to make a name for himself by pulling off a major hack job. Vincent lets him hack the entire Mars computer network to deliver Vincent's "Trick or Treat" message, which was a dare for anyone trying to stop him. After Lee accomplishes this, well his usefulness run out... [/spoiler]

Yeah, that was a lot of questions, but that's okay. The plot is actually very complex and I had to watch the movie a couple times before I could put all the pieces together myself.

it's official. i now completely understand the cowboy bebop movie. everything makes sense and everything is clear. it feels so good to finally get the pieces all laid out and put together. thank you so much for answering my many questions. it must've been a little time-consuming so i appologize for that. anyways, thanks again!!!

Tom Dincht wrote:I thought it was a good movie. While inferior to the series (as expected), it's the best job they could've done.

The R rating alone was my least favorite aspect. I felt guilty watching it and after fully viewing, I think it should've been a PG-13.

The only reason they rated it R is because they wanted to show parents that it's not a kids movie, which it isn't but the R is just stupid because it's not R material. I mean, Steamboy and Metropolis are rated PG-13 and Cowboy Bebop: Knockin' On Heaven's Door has very little more content then those. If you ask me it's stupid because a lot of kids (or even adults who don't take chances) won't be able to watch it because their parents won't let them. I had to convince my dad to let me watch it, and after a FREAKING MONTH I FINALLY convinced him to let me watch it, just to find it wasn't that bad. I personally think they should put sensible people on the MPAA. I also think Halo should have been rated T for Teen but thats a different subject.

jon_jinn wrote:It's official. i now completely understand the cowboy bebop movie. everything makes sense and everything is clear. it feels so good to finally get the pieces all laid out and put together. thank you so much for answering my many questions. it must've been a little time-consuming so i appologize for that. anyways, thanks again!!!

Wooo! Success!!!!! Hehehe, glad I could help.

The only reason they rated it R is because they wanted to show parents that it's not a kids movie, which it isn't but the R is just stupid because it's not R material. I mean, Steamboy and Metropolis are rated PG-13 and Cowboy Bebop: Knockin' On Heaven's Door has very little more content then those.

I don't want to get drawn into a debate or anything but I've seen Steamboy and Bebop is definitely not on the same level. I understand why they rated it R. Vincent is a truly evil sociopath and he does some very cruel and disturbing things. They may not have been portrayed in the typical gory R manner, but they were still done with great realism which makes them just as mature a subject. So in my opinion, they did rate it correctly.

Esoteric wrote:I don't want to get drawn into a debate or anything but I've seen Steamboy and Bebop is definitely not on the same level. I understand why they rated it R. Vincent is a truly evil sociopath and he does some very cruel and disturbing things. They may not have been portrayed in the typical gory R manner, but they were still done with great realism which makes them just as mature a subject. So in my opinion, they did rate it correctly.

I don't understand what you mean by this. In many PG-13 movies, villians do more disturbing things.

Notice you say it wasn't portrayed in the typical R-rated gorey manner. It was represented in a PG-13 gorey manner, thus it should have been PG-13.

I agree that it was only rated R because they wanted to show people that serious cartoons don't HAVE to be for little kids.

It was nothing more than a typical action movie. Unlike the series, there was nothing unique about it.

Eh, I think some of the stuff warranted an R-rating. Let's not forget about that scene with Vincent and Faye. If Bebop were live action, and that had happened in the movie in the same way, then it still would have gotten an R-rating, I think.

Radical Dreamer wrote:Eh, I think some of the stuff warranted an R-rating. Let's not forget about that scene with Vincent and Faye. If Bebop were live action, and that had happened in the movie in the same way, then it still would have gotten an R-rating, I think.

*high fives* Yes the main reason (IMO) other than the violent content was Vincent and Faye. Nudity was present if only for a split second it was there and they slapped the R rating on it.

Tom Dincht wrote:I don't understand what you mean by this. In many PG-13 movies, villians do more disturbing things.

Notice you say it wasn't portrayed in the typical R-rated gorey manner. It was represented in a PG-13 gorey manner, thus it should have been PG-13.

I agree that it was only rated R because they wanted to show people that serious cartoons don't HAVE to be for little kids.

It was nothing more than a typical action movie. Unlike the series, there was nothing unique about it.

Okay, let me see if I can clarify what I mean. There is certain criteria which makes a movie Pg-13 or R, etc. These criteria are most obvious when pertaining to language, graphic violence and sex. There are other less obvious criteria however, which include how these elements are actually portayed and how impressionable they are. For example, The Matrix didn't strike me as a particularily strong R movie either, until I watched it again later. It totally glorifies violence and destruction, making it seem cool. This is extremely impressionble to teenage audiences, hence the R rating.

So in Bebop for example, Vincent pointblank blows away a traffic cop for no reason at all other than it was a convenient way for him to handle the situation. He didn't have to, he simply didn't care about human life.
This was a heinious crime, as are many other things he does in the movie.
Most teenagers are extremely impressionable, and you'd be surprised at how much behaviour young adults learn from what movies and TV portray as reality, both right and wrong. So what might viewing this type of coldhearted murder subconciously suggest to some kids that frankly are prone to violent behaviour?
I realize this might sound like a stretch, but trust me, studies show a significant connection in young audiences. Heck, my own nephew would become notably more argumentative and agressive after playing a cartoon game like Super Smash Bros!
So Bebop may not have earned an R for gore, or language or sex, but it certainly earned one for the strong portayal of evil.

Radical Dreamer wrote:Eh, I think some of the stuff warranted an R-rating. Let's not forget about that scene with Vincent and Faye. If Bebop were live action, and that had happened in the movie in the same way, then it still would have gotten an R-rating, I think.

Of course it would have if it was Live Action?! If it was live action it would've been a women, not a drawing of one.

Let's not forget that absolutely nothing was shown.

Tom Dincht wrote:Of course it would have if it was Live Action?! If it was live action it would've been a women, not a drawing of one.

Let's not forget that absolutely nothing was shown.

Ok calm down she was stating her oppion nothing more nothing less. It got an R-rating nothing your oppions can do about it. i think She was right although it was implied so it still is not good. Also memmber fan made a very valid point its also there showing parents that just cuz its animated doesn't mean its a kids movie. And last but not least Esoteric hit the nail of the head it also got an R-rating for High portrail of evil. So back to the point lets let this discussion before it gets blown out of preportion settle and lets just think Cowboy bebop got rated R for Strong evil, animated violence, some blood, inplied rape.

Tom Dincht wrote:Of course it would have if it was Live Action?! If it was live action it would've been a women, not a drawing of one.

Let's not forget that absolutely nothing was shown.

Wow, if we're going with the theory that it's "just a drawing", I guess that makes hentai ok, too.

Anyways, yeah. I think you see my point.

eh. i'm sorry but i have one more question. why did spike punch morrocan after he finished talking to him about vincent?

jon_jinn wrote:eh. i'm sorry but i have one more question. why did spike punch morrocan after he finished talking to him about vincent?

You know thats good question. I think mostly because Spike is Spike XD

jon_jinn wrote:eh. i'm sorry but i have one more question. why did spike punch morrocan after he finished talking to him about vincent?

hehe, i think he did it because he invented the nanomachines.

(btw, i didn't think he died at the end, i thought he just ran off before the military dudes got there)

Doe Johnson wrote:hehe, i think he did it because he invented the nanomachines.

(btw, i didn't think he died at the end, i thought he just ran off before the military dudes got there)

Yeah, that's why I think he did it too. He was in part, responsible for what was happening. And I suppose you could be right about him getting away, but considering the situation, the pessimist in me doubts it very strongly.

gah. i have another question. what did Faye mean at the end of the movie (when she was in the plane with Jet) when she said something about horses?

I think the bean salesman was probably just some merchant and an old friend of Spike's, judging by the dialog. Oh, and I did review this movie, jon. Check out the review list. I also agree that the movie should've been rated PG-13. Probably some of the people at the MPAA felt a little uneasy about Faye's choice of attire. (Most of them are actually parents themselves) I've always wondered why it never falls off. OK, so I'm being a little lecherous.

jon_jinn wrote:gah. i have another question. what did Faye mean at the end of the movie (when she was in the plane with Jet) when she said something about horses?

I can't remember what it was she said, but I know she went to bet on the horse races afterwards. Is that what it was about? Or was it some sort of weird saying?