CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

I was really happy that I could finally watch Cowboy Bebop on my PC legally. Once I reached Episode 8, I noticed Cowboy Bebop is not on there anymore. Was this illegal to begin with?

The first thought on my mind would be fansubs since the dub is on really late at night and is at the end anyway. I know fansubs are DEFINATELY illegal?

BTW, the DVDs are out of the question, what should I do?

Does anyone know of a site other than Youtube where you can watch anime episodes without downloading them?

I'm clean, I have never downloaded a licensed series, I don't want to start now.

Are Episode Summaries the way to go?

Watching (licensed or not, actually) anime on youtube is just as illegal as fansubs. The only real legal way is to watch the dub on TV or buy dvds (from Bandai, mind you. not some cheap bootlegs).

Actually, the reason Cowboy Bebop isn't on there anymore is because the user or users took off the episodes themselves.

Yep, well said. Like I was saying in the chat, the author/publisher probably discover the episodes were on YouTube and fired off a quick "Cease and Desist" Letter (i.e. a threat to sue unless YouTube removed the episodes).

To further echo what Kevin said, the user who was posting the Kenshin dub episodes I was watching got a bunch of emails saying the episodes she had uploaded were illegal, and thus removed them. It happens.

Oh, they are equally as illegal even if not licensed?

That is incorrect, actually, because a primary reason a company decides to bring a series over is due to the popularity of it on the internet.

Fansubs for nonlicensed anime encourages the company to license it in which ever company gains the popularity.

That was Naruto's case anyway and that is the most popular anime/manga worldwide presently.

Downloading unlicensed anime is illegal, but all of the lawyers that care are on the other side of the planet. Until the people that make the shows explicitly state that they will allow their products to be distributed through third parties without any authorization, users of fansubs will have to live with the fact that they are doing something not condoned by the law.

Tom Dincht wrote:That is incorrect, actually, because a primary reason a company decides to bring a series over is due to the popularity of it on the internet.

That's not a true statement. Though it has happened in the past (Fushigi Yugi being a prominent example), it's ridiculous to state that a series is brought over because of its popularity on the internet.

And even if it were, that doesn't make it less illegal to download them or watch them on youtube. Yes, I am a hypocrite in this regard, I openly admit it, but there are things called international copyright laws, which protect a series from being distributed without license. In that regard, even if a series is not licensed, due to international copyright law it is illegal to distribute that series.

Ah, I understand. That is what I was told during an anime/manga program at my local library. The person speaking said it was legal to download unlicensed anime. I assume this person only lacked research on this topic.

This person did know a lot of info about Japanese anime...it's unreal.

Tom Dincht wrote:Oh, they are equally as illegal even if not licensed?

That is incorrect, actually, because a primary reason a company decides to bring a series over is due to the popularity of it on the internet.

Fansubs for nonlicensed anime encourages the company to license it in which ever company gains the popularity.

That was Naruto's case anyway and that is the most popular anime/manga worldwide presently.

I'd say it's more a case of allowing fansubs and the like de facto to exist before being licensed, while being actually illegal but with nobody pressing charges on just the chance that it catches popularity and finds a licensor. Another example of this phenomenon is the very large amount of Dance Dance Revolution Extreme arcade machines in the U.S. in spite of the machine having clearly posted in it's invite mode "Not for use outside of Asia", but Konami allows these machines because they keep DDR popular in the U.S. allowing for home games.

Whenever I have read up on fansubs in the past everything I read always mentions this little treaty about copyrights called The Berne Convention.The U.S.
and,I believe,most other Western countries plus Japan are signatories to the convention.This is why it's considered illegal to even have fansubs as they violate
a part of the treaty.I would think that Youtube and other sites like it would also be in similiar violation of the treaty if they ran unlincesed anime.
The reason why Tawain and some other Asian countries get away with creating bootlegs is because they are not part of the Berne Convention.
Also the main reason why users of fansubs aren't sued like users of Napster were,at least the reason I understand from my reading on the subject,is because
the Japanese don't feel the need to pursue such costly lawsuits in a foreign country.
Although if they did it is obvious that the copyright owners would prevail.

http://member.newsguy.com/~memoirs/legal.html

I find this to be a useful site for explaining the issues of legality. It was written before you could stream episodes, but the rest of it is informative. It does discuss the Berne convention

I was hoping that watching them on youtube was ok, I plan to buy them I just wanted to see if I liked them

what happened was a hacker got into the site. Anyway, i feel if it weren't for people like 4Kids and Dic, we wouldn't even NEED fansubs.

Well the thing about that is once a company in the U.S. or Canada gets the rights to license a certain title they can pretty well edit it to suit their needs any way they please.
Note:I'm not saying I'm anti-fansub or fandub I'm just noting why they are considered to be illegal.
The best way of doing things is to support the legal copyright holders both here and in Japan by buying the legal authorized versions on DVD or watching on tv.
And if you don't like the dub then try to get a copy of the manga.

mitsuki lover wrote:Well the thing about that is once a company in the U.S. or Canada gets the rights to license a certain title they can pretty well edit it to suit their needs any way they please.

Untrue. Remember the whole fiasco with Warriors of the Wind, the horribly butchered version of Nausicaa. Miyazaki was so horribly angered about it he threatened to never license out another movie unless all his anime was shown uncut in the States. So to say they can edit it however they want is untrue.

Makes me sad that Youtube is losing their anime selection. Honestly, I could care less if it's legal to watch or to upload. The whole anime setup currently is a rip-off(having to buy a series for $100+ only to see it once?? ridiculous). But yeah, I was just asking someone about Samurai 7 up there & he told me that people were being asked to take their licensed stuffs down. :/ Youtube's popularity will drop for sure.

FadedOne wrote:Makes me sad that Youtube is losing their anime selection. Honestly, I could care less if it's legal to watch or to upload. The whole anime setup currently is a rip-off(having to buy a series for $100+ only to see it once?? ridiculous). But yeah, I was just asking someone about Samurai 7 up there & he told me that people were being asked to take their licensed stuffs down. :/ Youtube's popularity will drop for sure.

That still doesn't dismiss the fact that it's illegal.

Anyone who pays more than $80 for a boxset is not shopping smart. You can find boxsets from popular series such as Noir, Big O, Rahxephon for example for as low as $40-50. Individual DVD volumes can also be found pretty easily in the $10-15 range on sites such as bestprice, overstock, and ebay.

ehh...my sense of legality is out the window lately. Nor I have seen those prices you're speaking of. Perhaps i'm looking in the wrong places, but still.

Many anime titles are available for rent at popular rental outlets - especially internet ones like Netflix.

That said, while Fansubs are technically a violation of international copyright law, they are generally tolerated by the Japanese rights holders. I am not aware of any fansubers being sued for copyright infringement. If no one makes a legal complaint, that makes the practice rather uninteresting to law enforcement.

Fansubs are a key contributing reason for anime’s popularity in the US and it seems most Japanese producers recognize that and give fansubs a free pass. For this reason, many people consider it OK to watch/own fansubs. If the rights holders do not see the need to enforce their copyrights, I do not either, however, it is never OK to buy or sell them.

When it comes to fansubs of anime licensed in the US, the ethics change. There is now a release agent in the US who is interested in protecting their rights to the anime. Fansubers and anime clubs have wisely chosen to cease showing and distributing fansubs of licensed anime to avoid lawsuits that they could not win and, since they make no money for funasubing, would bankrupt them. Where many anime fans feel it is OK to have and watch fansubs of unlicensed anime, many feel it is unethical to trade in fansubs of licensed anime.

Whether you're a fan of naruto or not, if your a member of http://www.narutofan.com you get access to a ton of different animes all quite lega...

Yojimbo wrote:Anyone who pays more than $80 for a boxset is not shopping smart. You can find boxsets from popular series such as Noir, Big O, Rahxephon for example for as low as $40-50. Individual DVD volumes can also be found pretty easily in the $10-15 range on sites such as bestprice, overstock, and ebay.

Well, generally speaking, a number of the $40-50 boxsets/thinpacks have the extras stripped(at least ADVs do) so it depends on whether you want a cheap price or extras/a fancy box. But personally, I'll take the cheap price.
Also, Geneon's boxsets are still really expensive...

I got an email from youtube saying a video I uploaded was illegal... didn't make sense. It was an anime montage with music... I mean..... they got movies and tv shows on youtube and they target me? Weird

Anyway, i feel if it weren't for people like 4Kids and Dic, we wouldn't even NEED fansubs.

True, true.

My current position with One Piece is to buy the manga (the original, but don't mind the English one too much), then use fansubs till uncut finally comes out (which may be years for now, but hopefully it will come). However, at the current time I was only able to watch them on YouTube. When I get my new computer, I can download, but I know how it probably feels to those in the same positions as I am now. :/

MasterDias wrote:Well, generally speaking, a number of the $40-50 boxsets/thinpacks have the extras stripped(at least ADVs do) so it depends on whether you want a cheap price or extras/a fancy box. But personally, I'll take the cheap price.
Also, Geneon's boxsets are still really expensive...

I buy anime for the anime, not for the extras XD

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:I buy anime for the anime, not for the extras XD

Sadly, some anime fans don't see it that way.

I don't know how many time, I have seen anime fans have got mad over the thinpacks, because they think they should have the extras in it, but pay a lower price for them.

That said, while Fansubs are technically a violation of international copyright law, they are generally tolerated by the Japanese rights holders. I am not aware of any fansubers being sued for copyright infringement. If no one makes a legal complaint, that makes the practice rather uninteresting to law enforcement.

Not as true anymore. Fansubs are still being made, but Japan started to crack down on fansubing.

About two years ago, there was a raid in Japan to crack down fansubs or people trying to make R 0 dvd's.

Both the Japan and the US Bandai has came down hard on fansubs.


Wingzero22

Wingzero22 wrote:Sadly, some anime fans don't see it that way.

I don't know how many time, I have seen anime fans have got mad over the thinpacks, because they think they should have the extras in it, but pay a lower price for them.


Wingzero22

I guess. I mean, I'm perfectly content with the content I get in fansubs. So whatever

Mr. SmartyPants wrote:I guess. I mean, I'm perfectly content with the content I get in fansubs. So whatever

I'm one that like thinpacks, because I want the anime. I'm not really into the extras only if its anime that I really like and has something nice in it and I will play the extra money.


But I have seen some people go to ADV booth and really act like a child about it and ask why the about the thinkpacks don't have the extras in them.


Wingzero22

Extras are an afterthought. I mean they're just that extras if it saves me $20-30 then I'll take it any day.

FadedOne wrote:ehh...my sense of legality is out the window lately. Nor I have seen those prices you're speaking of. Perhaps i'm looking in the wrong places, but still.

Well, I can't speak to your convictions, but CAA's official policy has always been that we as Christians are to abide by the laws of the land.

I have a very informal agreement with a group of my friends. We each ask around to see who has what, and we buy and share stuff with each other. Once I've finished watching Lain, for example, I loaned it to a friend.