CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Not really. I'm a pretty fast reader.

But you can't blame the Japanese. English is a really cumbersome language. It takes a long time to say stuff in English compared to other languages. Plus, English people talk really slow. Compare the English "I don't know" to the more concise Spanish "No se." Takes almost no time to say the latter, but the former takes a bit more. Especially given the speed at which most English speaking people talk.

That's why a lot of dialogue gets cut up when an anime gets dubbed, because they have to match the speech for the character talking. This means making sentences shorter, and sometimes it means having dub voice actors talk fast (remember Speed Racer?).

It's not the Japanese's fault that English is a really weird language, or that we talk slowly. But for people who don't read as fast as I do, I can see how it would be a problem as far as subtitles.

kaemmerite wrote:Not really. I'm a pretty fast reader.

Likewise. Only thing that's hard to do sometimes is if you have multiple subs to read (such as following with the subs and say lyrics/translation notes appear at the same time). I know my friends mostly disslike "reading" their anime because they can't read too fast^^ *shrugs* Maybe reading alot in my childhood helped? Although I know I can't nearly read that fast when it comes to reading Japanese.... specially katakana (reading it out, plus trying to say it outloud to see what english word it is :/)

Oh, and you can't really use the excuse of "other languages always seem to sound like they speak faster" because I've heard stories like one of my teachers taught in England for a while and the kids complained that he talked to slow. ....it would sure be interesting to find another language that talks in monotone too, but I doubt you'd be able to tell^^

Tenshi no Ai wrote:Maybe reading alot in my childhood helped?

That could be it. I was reading when I was four years old, so reading is something that comes easily to me. Could be the same with you.

kaemmerite wrote:That could be it. I was reading when I was four years old, so reading is something that comes easily to me. Could be the same with you.

Yeah I don't ever remember NOT knowing how to read :/ (I do remember reading picturery books though and moreso just ignoring the print and enjoying the pics instead). Apparently tape and books taught me, and I did use them, but I could still read other things too around then :/ Heh I remember when I was about 6 or something and guess my uncle didn't know I could read well or anything and told me about the Stephen King book he was reading (an amusing story of "his version" of it) because I read at the back of the book of what it's really about and he was like "...yeah that happened too" :/
*cough* But enough about me^^

I've heard people complain about subtitles being too fast, but I have NO problem reading them and keeping up, and I don't ever remember having a problem. I guess maybe it's because I read really fast, who knows?

I can't believe you're bashing the English language like that, Kaemmerite! And to make Japanese sound like it's so superior, of all languages. Written Japanese is the most awful thing ever created, and spoken Japanese isn't that great, either.

English is incredibly flexible, flowing, and descriptive. (Okay, so maybe German is a little more descriptive, but still.)

Godly Paladin wrote:I can't believe you're bashing the English language like that, Kaemmerite!

I can. Have you ever tried to learn English as a secondary language? No, you haven't. You have no idea how hard it is to learn English if you've spoken any other language in the world. Only a handful of languages come close to how hard English is...Russian is one of 'em, and Hebrew is one of the rare ones that is harder than English.

And to make Japanese sound like it's so superior, of all languages. Written Japanese is the most awful thing ever created, and spoken Japanese isn't that great, either.

Only because you've grown up speaking English.

English is incredibly flexible, flowing, and descriptive.

Flowing? How is it flowing? It's completely backwards from every other language out there. In practically every language BUT English, you put the noun first, then the adjective. For example, in Spanish you would say "pollo verde" to say "green chicken." To a person who has learned most of the European languages, to put the adjective first isn't "flowing" at all. It's a hassle. It doesn't flow to them.

And flexible? I suppose that's why so many people are destroying the English language, because it's so "flexible."

I remember in elementary and middleschool, id always read. Infact I read during class. I'd completely ignore the teacher and have a book under my desk. I'd just read... I think I got caught once.. But the teacher let me go

I guess that contributed to my fast reading.

kaemmerite wrote:But you can't blame the Japanese. English is a really cumbersome language. It takes a long time to say stuff in English compared to other languages. Plus, English people talk really slow. Compare the English "I don't know" to the more concise Spanish "No se." Takes almost no time to say the latter, but the former takes a bit more. Especially given the speed at which most English speaking people talk.

it would be awesome if they could make subs that communicated like an english person does. granted, english in the literary form is long and quite cumbersome, but English people can communicate quite a bit faster - consider spanish's "No se." to Englishes "Mm" (high, low) and then we get into popular jargon! "sup?" = "what's happening with you now?" as well as countess other tonal words, body movements and the like, that would probably frighten and intimidate foriegners

not to mention the people who ommunicate by making faces at one another...

if only all that could be stuck into the sub....

also, I've been reading since a young age also, so speed doesn't really matter to me - i can read aloud at 6.8 sylables a second according to that brain age game...

Moved to Anime.

kaemmerite wrote: Have you ever tried to learn English as a secondary language?

where do you live that you had to learn English as a secondary language?

Godly Paladin wrote:I can't believe you're bashing the English language like that, Kaemmerite! And to make Japanese sound like it's so superior, of all languages. Written Japanese is the most awful thing ever created, and spoken Japanese isn't that great, either.

English is incredibly flexible, flowing, and descriptive. (Okay, so maybe German is a little more descriptive, but still.)

I for one am glad English is my first language because it would be so difficult to learn as a second, considering how illogical the pronunciation and grammar is (Imagine a foreigner facing a sentence like "The soldier took a bandage and wound the wound" and making sense out of it...)

Japanese can be spoken much more quickly than other languages and doesn't have many of the annoyances Western languages do such as:

• Verb forms based on number of people
• Gender forms
• Inconsistant pronunciation rules ("Enough" for example, and let's not forget the old joke of spelling "fish" as gh-o-ti)
• Many irregular verbs (Japanese has 3: Suru, Kuru and Iku)

Sure written Japanese can be hard, but with spoken, it is a matter of realizing that it is different. Once you see that, and learn the basic rules, it becomes very logical to follow

What Kae and Tenshi said.

I've never had that much of a problem. I usually kinda half-way read it anyways, then try to listen to rest. :p

Flowing? How is it flowing? It's completely backwards from every other language out there. In practically every language BUT English, you put the noun first, then the adjective. For example, in Spanish you would say "pollo verde" to say "green chicken." To a person who has learned most of the European languages, to put the adjective first isn't "flowing" at all. It's a hassle. It doesn't flow to them.

Odd, though, since I believe Japanese puts the adjective BEFORE the noun (in most cases?). -.O

I read really fast. I never have problems reading subtitles.

When you all read, do you read by letter or by word? I recognize words when I see them, I don't read each letter individually. Maybe some people read by letters, I don't know.

ShiroiHikari wrote:When you all read, do you read by letter or by word? I recognize words when I see them, I don't read each letter individually. Maybe some people read by letters, I don't know.

I see a short sentence and with the snap of a finger, I know exactly what it is/means and all. A little longer and I'll read more word by word, not sure^^ Never actually... paid attention to HOW I read :/ Although about the letter by letter thing, maybe that's why people have difficulties (and not sure how people can really even do it^^) Heh when it comes to Japanese though, you sort of HAVE to do that, which is why I'm so slow at it^^ Of course, if there's a specific/special word over and over I just assume it's the same and skip it basically, so it's like "reading by distinguising" but... I dunno, werid stuff^^

I'm a fast reader, so I've never had a problem with it...Only if the subs are a weird color and I can't see the words too well (or if I'm super-tired). I've been reading since I was 3 or 4, and since reading is one of the things I love to do, I get plenty of practice. But don't call yourself a poser for watching dubs, FaerieChica! I watch both subs and dubs, and while I prefer the subs in some cases (like Whisper of the Heart and Spirited Away), I like the dubs much better in others (like Cowboy Bebop, Rurouni Kenshin, and FullMetal Alchemist). You're still just as much of an anime fan for watching dubs as the next person who only likes subs, so don't worry about it!

But yeah, as for the whole language debate, I think we have to remember--Any language you grow up hearing and speaking is going to be much easier than any other language. I mean, come on, French is a really tough language (all those silent letters!), but if any of us grew up in France, with family that talked to us in French, we'd all speak it really easily. I'm taking a Spanish 2 course right now, and while it's not particularly difficult, it's still no walk through the park (yeah, studying would help, but whatever XD). There's no reason to say any one language is better than others, though, because any language that you learn as your first language will seem easier and better than other languages. As far as keeping the English language from being destroyed by internet slang and the like...Well, that's what we grammar-lovers are here for!

Cloud Strife wrote:where do you live that you had to learn English as a secondary language?

I'm American born and raised, but I was in the Navy and I talked with Filipino friends that had to learn English as a second language, and they said it was a nightmare.

I'm a REALLY fast reader, so most subtitles don't make it past me. Most times I read the sentence in a glance and I finish reading before the character is done talking. Its a little weird sometime because I'm done reading but the person just keeps talking XD;;

In deeper anime though with bigger words, if a translater uses a really weird sentence structure, or if it really does flash by too quickly, I just pause it and read it then press play again.

I see a short sentence and with the snap of a finger, I know exactly what it is/means and all. A little longer and I'll read more word by word, not sure^^ Never actually... paid attention to HOW I read :/ Although about the letter by letter thing, maybe that's why people have difficulties (and not sure how people can really even do it^^) Heh when it comes to Japanese though, you sort of HAVE to do that, which is why I'm so slow at it^^ Of course, if there's a specific/special word over and over I just assume it's the same and skip it basically, so it's like "reading by distinguising" but... I dunno, werid stuff^^

Ditto.


Oh, and one quick note: please, why must some subtitles take up a friggin' third of the screen?? @_@

the ones I read don't ... <.<;;

Most of the ones I see don't, I mean, but the last I was watching had some rather large ones (okay, maybe a fifth of the screen; still unneccesarily large for reading ;p ).

The only time I had a hard time keeping up with the subtitles is during Excel Saga. Many times they have two people talking at once, and it's impossible for me to read it all.

This is the very reason I refuse to watch subs.

Well... that, and poorly-translated subs as well. Both of those factors kill subtitles for me. I'd rather read manga, not animé.

You have to have the subtitle on to watch Excel Saga even if you're watching the dub to be able to get what the Puuchuus and Sumiyoshi are saying.

It happens to me once in a while, but generally I'm okay. I still prefer subs.

Don't worry, you're not a poser for liking it dubbed--I prefer watching in English (in most cases), if only because I can concentrate on the visuals rather than stare at the bottom of the screen. Or because I can work on a drawing and still understand what's going on without looking.

The only problem I've had with subtitles is when a sign translation pops up at the same time someone is speaking, or when multiple people are speaking at the same time (RahXephon comes to mind). Then it doesn't really matter how long they are, they just move over to the next person/sentence too quickly for me. Ah well, that's why there's the skip back button.

I prefer dubs over subs, but subs are good to watch occasionally. The times when subs get really annoying is when a character says a long sentence, but seems to sputter it out in only a couple of words. And as a sidenote, when I watch subs over a long period of time, I almost forget that I'm actually reading while I'm watching, because I get so used to it.