CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Wellll, I just posrted this in the Naruto thread and it just occured to me that I should start this thread instead.

I am sick of us Americanizing all the good anime (i.e. Full Metal Alchemist, Naruto, and a few others) BAsically, when it is Americanized it is made more for children and they cut out alot of the really funny stuff. Stop bringing it over here and cutting it to pieces. I think they should subtitle it. Japanese voices are better because it is more natural. It is how it was meant to be.

I really don't approve with ruining all the god anime. Now, I don't mind if they bring the cruddy anime and ruin that (i.e. Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, Sailor Moon etc...) But when you started destroying and editing perfectly good anime like FMA and Naruto, it bothers me.

I just know they are going to edit out some col fighting scenes just because of the violence but that is why I enjoy some of it.

I can't think of any more to rant about right now so I guess I'm done. :p

Wow.

Anyways, I must say that I understand why it irritates you so. I don't mind the fact that they dub it, (I watch subs) but when they cut out entire scenes or changed characters entirely, that bothers me.

Then again, I don't watch anime dubbed, and any that I do I watch on uncut DVD's.

I just wish the american companies would get it into thier heads that anime isn't just for children.

It's free and on TV. Deal with it.

my point exactly. I watch subs. I am also learning Japanese so it is good for me to learn the native language.

Anime isn definatly not just for children. I am in AJapn now and half the anime and manga I see... well... adults shouldn't even be reading it it is so bad, but besides the point, I hate how the cut it all up.

It's free and on TV. Deal with it.

Amen, Master Alberto.

Dubbing = if good voices and nothing is really cut, then it's a good thing

Americanizing = Bad. Must punish (glares at 4Kids for the umpteenth time).
Tends to happen cuz Americans are too lazy to learn other languages or cultures. They don't know what a rice ball is, so they turn it into cookies. They apparently don't know what muskets are, so they turn them into Super Soakers... that fire bullets. O_o

Still, I get my fill of anime on 4Kids, no matter how badly it's be done. Until I get a job or a better internet connection, I can't really complain.

I'm sorry, but this is very little anime in English I enjoy because so many things are cut out.

Even when I buy anime on DVD I usually watch it in JApanese with subs because I would rather see the real context of what is beaing said rather than some lame American translations.

I don't think it works alot either when they try to translate Japanese jokes and puns into English. It makes it reall bad. That is also why I like subs because in some cases, the subtitles will explain the context of the original joke or play on words so you can understand and know why you are suppoed to be laughing.

As if you have to watch it.

That's why you buy the DVD's so you can listen to both! Arrrrgh!
I'm sick of hearing that subs are better and dubs are better and whatnot. Sometimes the dub has funnier jokes than the sub and vice versa. It all depends on the individual series.

First of all, I don't care for dubs either, though I do like some dubs better than the Japanese (Ranma for example).

Two, it's American TV. What do you expect? You expect them to air shows in Japanese on American TV with subtitles? Hate to break it to you, pal, but it wouldn't fly. Do you know the common response I got in the Navy when I watched stuff subtitled was?

"That's so stupid. Why don't you watch it in English? I can't read the subtitles fast enough."

People wouldn't watch it because they wouldn't want to read subtitles. Some people can't read very fast (little kids), so they wouldn't be able to keep up with the subtitles. Ratings would plummet, the shows would be cancelled, and anime would be obscure in America because everyone would assume, "Well, the ratings for every anime on TV are bad, so no one must like anime."

Then it would be MUCH harder to find anime in this country, and that would suck.

The dub/sub debate goes on, but what does it matter? MOST anime is released on dual language DVDs, so both sides are happy. Woo hoo.

Heed wrote:I'm sorry, but this is very little anime in English I enjoy because so many things are cut out.

Even when I buy anime on DVD I usually watch it in JApanese with subs because I would rather see the real context of what is beaing said rather than some lame American translations.

I don't think it works alot either when they try to translate Japanese jokes and puns into English. It makes it reall bad. That is also why I like subs because in some cases, the subtitles will explain the context of the original joke or play on words so you can understand and know why you are suppoed to be laughing.

Ok to begin with you keep saying American when half of the dubs are
done up in Canada.So if you want to correct that and say NORTH America
and not insult our Canadian friends by leaving them out of it.
Secondly you have to remember there is a difference between North
American and Japanese cultures and some of the stuff that is edited out
in the dubs in order for the series to air on tv have to do with those differences.Other editing is due to length of time they have to run them
on American or Canadian tv.
What I mean is that some of the things that might be ok on Japanese tv
are definite no-nos on American tv.
For example on Zatch Bell they added underpants for Zatch in order to be able to air the pilot and several other eps. on CN.
As far as the jokes and puns,while the dubs do have a larger audience and
so are meant to appeal to more people.It would take longer time to explain
everything and by the time the jokes were explained they would have lost at least half the audience.Also I doubt that anime would have made it popular
in North America if they had to stop to explain everything all the time like
that.
What I do most object to though is the way that sub fans do seem a bit
overly arrogant when it comes to the dub.There are people like me who did get into anime by watching the dubs and who enjoy the dub immensely.
If you don't like the dub that's ok,but don't go out and bash those who do
and whine about it's inadequacies.There are probably pros and cons about the subs as well.

Mmm...I agree Mitsukilover. I prefer the dubs on many anime, and I don't necessarily mind if they cut out objectional material on tv. The only thing I don't like is when they cut out certain amounts of blood...Honestly, no one gets slashed by a kodachi without bleeding! *stares at CN's edit of Rurouni...* Anyways, I think the best post here was by Impact...

Impact Alberto wrote:It's free and on TV. Deal with it.

Heed wrote:I'm sorry, but this is very little anime in English I enjoy because so many things are cut out.

Even when I buy anime on DVD I usually watch it in JApanese with subs because I would rather see the real context of what is beaing said rather than some lame American translations.

What about Cowboy Bebop or Gundam Wing?

Personally, it really doesn't matter to me. As long as hit hasn't been butchered (One Piece), or the voices suck, I'll watch either. Lighten up.

1. I am not Bashing anyone, I am expressing my opinion on dubs.

2. I never said I hated all dubs, there are some that I do enjoy.

3. Yes, I understand there is some content that should be edited out HOWEVER I believe they edit out too much sometimes. I have seen worse real shows on North American Television than is allowed in some animes.

4. Not ALL anime is for children. I do not believe Dragon Ball or any of those in the series to be children's shows. Cowboy Bebop is far from a children's show.

5. I am sorry if I cme across in the wwrong way but it seems like much of the bashing in this thread has turned around on me. I have not commented at all on any fans of Dubs either so stop bashing myself or fans of Subs.

6. If you cannot carry on this thread in a civil manner, (I myself will also watch how I phrase things since maybe people take me to literall), then Isuggest you not post here and just leave, or maybe just lock this thread.

Thank you very much.

The short answer is that you're going to have to live with it, or find a way around it (e.g. by renting the DVDs). It's not as if this is a phenomenon exclusive to anime after all. How many foreign films actually get shown in mainstream North American theatres, much less on television? At least, when it comes to anime, much of the original show is preserved instead of a fully American version being made.

I think I know a really cool solution. This has probably already been done but I don't have cable or satellite so I wouldn't know. I watch CN at my sis's house cause she has satellite. But ANYWAY...

They should have an anime channel that shows anime is all Japanese with subtitles or maybe split it up and have a certain time for subs and anther time frame for dubs, just to keep everyone happy.

And have it maybe unedited or not edited as much? Of course I wouldn't want any hentai on the station but if there was a show with something like that, I wouldn't mind them editing that out.

Anyway, that is just a thought

...

Okay, look, I was not trying to bash or insult you. I was expressing my opinions in the same way you were. Please don't freak out, as usual I just worded things the wrong way.

Now, to express my opinion: I don't really worry about it that much.

I know for a fact that every member of this board knows that anime isn't just for kids.

Sorry for sounding rude, I was not trying to be.

As long as there are people who like dubs *cough me*, there will always be a market for it dubbed versions. Plus, like SirThinks2Much dvd's usually have both english and the japanese tracks. This way the companies accommodate the people on both ends. Which equal more sells. It's only smart business

But yeah, to me it doesn't really matter as long as I see it.

First of all, the two anime that you picked to illustrate a point are illogical examples:
a. Full Metal Alchemist is currently running on Adult Swim virtually uncut so I don't see what the problem is...
b. Naruto hasn't even aired yet so it's impossible to determine the quality of the dub....

3. Yes, I understand there is some content that should be edited out HOWEVER I believe they edit out too much sometimes. I have seen worse real shows on North American Television than is allowed in some animes.

I agree with you that some companies (read: 4kids) edit too much or seem to just edit for the heck of it but remember, most anime on TV is geared towards kids and younger teens. The TV stations in question have various guidelines and don't want a bunch of angry parents down their throats.

4. Not ALL anime is for children. I do not believe Dragon Ball or any of those in the series to be children's shows. Cowboy Bebop is far from a children's show.

Technically, Dragon Ball is a kid's show. Any anime based on manga that ran in Shonen Jump or Sunday is geared towards kids and teens.
You are correct about Cowboy Bebop however. That's was geared towards older audiances.

I think I know a really cool solution. This has probably already been done but I don't have cable or satellite so I wouldn't know. I watch CN at my sis's house cause she has satellite. But ANYWAY...

They should have an anime channel that shows anime is all Japanese with subtitles or maybe split it up and have a certain time for subs and anther time frame for dubs, just to keep everyone happy.

There is an Anime Network. I don't know all the details but I do know that much.
I don't know if it runs subtitled anime however.

Siiiiigggghhhh...

I'd like to point some things out. For one thing, (and Heed, this is no bashing...I just wanted to bring this out in the open concerning opinions) since when is Naruto and FMA "good" anime? What is "good" anime? To me "FMA" is crappy (like the manga though). I don't like the anime. Anime I enjoy is Love Hina, Evangelion, Ghost in the Shell, and Last Exile so to me that "good" anime. Whereas, to my friend, Dragon Ball Z and Yu-Gi-Oh is considered "good". So before you start saying what's considered good and not good, make sure you state it as an opinion. Ok, now back to orginal meaning of the thread, Dubs vs Subs.

Businesses aren't just going to liscence "crappy" anime but "good" anime cause it puts money in thier wallet. "Good" or well-known anime (like Naruto which is very well-known) was and is going to be liscened and to think otherwise is stupid because it is well-known in the anime community. High-quality anime and that most people enjoy has and will be liscened.

As someone said before, DVD's as both subbed and dubbed which, to me, is a God send. As I read before in a interview with whoever "DVD's has resolved the conflict between subbed and dubbed cause it gives you the best of both worlds." I disagree cause I still see here and other message boards, forums, blogs of people bieng PO'ed at dubs. If you want it subbed, go buy the DVD's. If you can't and all you have is the t.v. Then I guess you will have to be forced to watch Dubbed anime which brings me to another point.

MasterDias wrote: Technically, Dragon Ball is a kid's show. Any anime based on manga that ran in Shonen Jump or Sunday is geared towards kids and teens.
You are correct about Cowboy Bebop however. That's was geared towards older audiances.

And that's the reason why some anime, deemed not for kids in the US, are put on Adult Swim which for the large part remain un-edited in both dialouge and content.

America is going to Americanize foreign goods because it is the American way. That'sd how we think. if it's not American, then we will make it American. Therefore, we translate the orginal Japanese script, put in some American sayings, cliche's, etc to make it more American, hire some American voice actors so kids (who most anime is targeted to cause it is America) won't have to read the subtitles and be confused. As well, Amercians want to hear English. So, before anything, Dubbing Companies are going to dub it first and air it on American TV in English voices cause that's just how it works.

I personally enjoy both and I have been attacked by people who call themselves "true otaku's" who oppose all forms of Amerinizing anime and anyone who even marginally supports it is not a true otaku which I think is funny). They both have thier strong suits. Most Subs have really good voice actors who are very talented and same goes with Dubs. Thier are some awesome voice actors who do a fabulous job at voice acting on both sides of the spectrum. As for the scripts, they usually stay the same save for some series that are meant to stray from the orginal script on purpose (DBZ for instance) whereas, after watching series such as Last Exile with the subtitles on but dubbed, they were right on save for some minor word changes. I am not well versed in Japanese to English Translation but they only thing I can get from that is that some words in Japanese are different in English so the dubbers are forced to alternate or change the placings of words.

They are not out to destroy anime like so many like to generalize them. I believe they have as much love of anime as much as I do as much as everyone else here. However, some circumstances force them to make choices that make fans upset yet fans don't know what really happened save for what they see on the surface. They aren't sitting in their stuidos, snickering to themselves "Hahaha...I bet this will tick of those idiotic fans bwahahaha". The reason they are working thier (and the voice actors) is cause they have a heart for anime as we all do.

So yeah....

I totally agree with you Heed-sama. I get so frustrated at the American dubs because they just plain screw everything up. Adult Swim is pretty good about not cutting anything out, but Cartoon Network is going to RUIN Naruto. I'm glad I get Fansubs. I read that they are going to take out the Haku part with his Senbon [ Needles] . :\ ... So. Yeah, Cartoon Network is evil.

I'd like to point some things out. For one thing, (and Heed, this is no bashing...I just wanted to bring this out in the open concerning opinions) since when is Naruto and FMA "good" anime? What is "good" anime?

....... Have you even seen Naruto ?XD; I'm just going to warn you Hitokiri-kun, a whole lot of people enjoy and watch Naruto and FullMetal Alchemist regularly,me included, and might take offense to that statement. >_>; I know you're trying not to bash it, but you didn't have to specifically name those series.

-Kami

You guys sound like someone's forcing you to watch these Americanized "horrible" dubs.

I read that they are going to take out the Haku part with his Senbon [ Needles] . :\ ... So. Yeah, Cartoon Network is evil.

Yeah that sucks, but you don't have to watch it.

You people may say that you're not bashing Heed's thread but when you come on here saying rude stuff like

It's free and on TV. Deal with it.

Yah that sucks but you dont have to watch it.

thats practically bashing. If you want to say your opinion state it in a nice manner and not a - ugh my opinion is better than yours manner. You have to remember that we're typing in a forum where you cant hear people's voices to know HOW they say things.

As to the subject of this thread:

I agree that most TV edits are pretty bad. I can understand editing language and projectile blood-loss, but a little trickle of blood from the mouth wouldn't kill anyone. Look at some of the NORTH american made shows that are on Cartoon Network. Billy and Mandy? I've made myself sit through an episode of that and its worse than some anime when UNedited. I dont wanna see people's eyes popping out and worms crawling through their bodies and into their brains.

And NO I am NOT bashing Billy and Mandy. I'm merely stating that I dont like the show.

But some things do need to be edited if they are going to be on NORTH american television. But that doesn't give the companies right to completely obliterate a series.

It is your own opinion wether or not you want to watch dubbed or subbed anime, and which you think is better. And you're free to come on here and state your opinion. I just dont think you need to state your opinion in a harsh or brash way.

And heres a little tidbit for anyone who is interested> The Naruto edits are being done by the company that licensed it, not CN (who did the edits on Rurouni Kenshin and Yu Yu Hakusho and etc.)

Anyway, if anyone takes something in my post offensively then I'm sorry you took it wrong. Have a nice day.

Yeah, it does suck, and I never did say that I was going to watch the Naruto Dub. anyway. e_e Also, maybe I don't have to watch it but :

It's free and on Tv.

So. Yeah. I love certain dubs that don't totally bash the series. KyoKaraMaoh ! For one is one of my favorite, and so is Wolf's Rain, but, if you watched Ruroni Kenshin,and YuuYuu Hakusho, Cartoon Network fails to impress me with their dubbing job; and I SERIOUSLY doubt that they are actually going to do Naruto justice.

- Kami

I don't think CN does dubbing. 4Kids and Funimation and the like do the dubbing.

You also have to remember that a lot of anime could be considered illegal in the U.S.; the age of consent is 16 in Japan. Even non-adult titles could be banned, I have no clue how they slipped Burst Angel past the U.S. censores. Heck, I have no clue how they even released it in Japan.

What the, ....anime isn't illegal. I mean, they get Hentai in all the time, and Burst Angel is like Marmalade Boy compared to the Hentai they carry over here. o_o;

-Kami

I think he means normal TV.

snowangel kamui wrote:Have you even seen Naruto ?XD]

I have seen Naruto and I enjoy both anime and manga however I did not find FMA as everyone hyped it to be. It is obvious both series has a large fan base internationally but because of that, does that make it "good". DBZ and Sailor Moon has a huge fan base and if you apply the same logic, it would be "good" but Heed and many others has labeled it as being "crappy" and "sucky". I was bringing those particular series into light because...

[qoute="Heed"]I really don't approve with ruining all the god anime. Now, I don't mind if they bring the cruddy anime and ruin that (i.e. Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, Sailor Moon etc...) But when you started destroying and editing perfectly good anime like FMA and Naruto, it bothers me.

I was just trying to point out the meaning of opinions. However, to distinquish between what's "crappy" and "good" differs from one person to the next and can't clearly be defined. However, I apologize by calling FMA crappy cause it is not, I just dislike it.

Shao Feng-Li wrote:I don't think CN does dubbing. 4Kids and Funimation and the like do the dubbing.

Correct, CN has and never will dub. They do however edit out certain explicatives which is prefectly alright. They ahve that right cause they got the show. If you have a bone to pick about maybe Rurouni Kenshin, get mad at ADV, not CN. They just air it and edit what needs to be edited for All Ages.

From an admitted sub fan:

Yes, I dislike pointless edits. Yes there are several dubs I'm not a very big fan of. However, I realize that there are some edits that need to be made in anime, especially when they're aired on TV. I know a lot of the cultural jokes have to be changed, because even if I might understand it, I know a lot of the little kiddies out there probably won't, and on that same token I don't think they'd be especially interested in putting forth any effort into understanding the joke. Dubbing is a must - I used to be quite opposed to dubbing, but if you don't like it, it's really something you just have to grin and bear. I've reached the point where I don't even cringe when they mispronounce something...which is amazing progress if you ask me. On network television, naturally CN and company has to comply with US censorship rules when they take things out like blood, etc. So if you want to go after someone, don't go after CN or the distributor (though I'd gladly help you burn ADV's building any day, just ask me), but the people who put these television guidlines into place.

At the same time there are things that should NOT be done to anime. Example? Mispronunciation, as I've mentioned, is perfectly fine in my book. As long as the dub sticks to one common mispronunciation - does anyone have ANY idea how maddening it is to watch a dub and hear a character's name pronounced five different ways? Not bashing dubs or anything, but it really does make one a little nutty upstairs. o.O And changing names just for the sake of changing names - I know this hasn't happened on Cartoon Network except with Sailor Moon...but, yeah. O_o; Did you know that in the Digimon dub they decided to randomly change Wallace to Willis...? I mean, if a name's nigh impossible for an English VA to pronounce fluidly, I can understand a slight change, but...goodness. XD; Also, I don't agree with needless editing of blood - naturally we don't want the blood geysers we get in some anime like the Escaflowne movie (those people really had HIGH blood pressure...o.O; ), but I dislike axing blood entirely from a series. People BLEED when they hit hit/stabbed/beaten, and I think removing the bleeding and making it look like the character was unharmed when they're stabbed is worse for a kid's psyche than seeing a little bit of blood here and there.

Anyways...in the end if you don't like it, you really do have three options:
1) grin and bear it. I would be doing this at the moment if there were any series on CN that I'm interested in. Which there aren't, really. ^^;
2) Don't watch it. I don't mean to come across as rude at all, but it is an available option.
3) Buy the DVDs. Praise the Lord for subtitles!

Though I do think they have a segment on the Anime Network that airs subtitled anime at a certain time in the day. I don't know though, I don't watch the Anime Network...*snarls at ADV*

Michael wrote:You also have to remember that a lot of anime could be considered illegal in the U.S.]
Uh, I don't know where your getting your info from but...
Anime, including anime with underage nudity, is legal both in the US and Japan. The U.S. government doesn't go around messing with imported animated programs. Network TV is one thing but companies can release whatever anime they want uncut on DVD.

And Burst Angel isn't even a very good example anyway, as it's far from the worst fanservice anime out there.

People BLEED when they hit hit/stabbed/beaten, and I think removing the bleeding and making it look like the character was unharmed when they're stabbed is worse for a kid's psyche than seeing a little bit of blood here and there.

I agree. Kids know what blood is. (or at least I hope they do.)
Having someone look completely unharmed just looks stupid.

At the same time there are things that should NOT be done to anime. Example? Mispronunciation, as I've mentioned, is perfectly fine in my book. As long as the dub sticks to one common mispronunciation - does anyone have ANY idea how maddening it is to watch a dub and hear a character's name pronounced five different ways? Not bashing dubs or anything, but it really does make one a little nutty upstairs. o.O And changing names just for the sake of changing names - I know this hasn't happened on Cartoon Network except with Sailor Moon...but, yeah. O_o; Did you know that in the Digimon dub they decided to randomly change Wallace to Willis...? I mean, if a name's nigh impossible for an English VA to pronounce fluidly, I can understand a slight change, but...goodness.

I'll put up with name changes if the names are at least somewhat similar. What annoys me however is when someone seems to pull a name randomly out of a hat...That Hao to Zeke name change in Shaman King that makes no sense...