Ghost in the Shell - Stand Alone Complex

[Gypsy]

Thank you, Hitokiri for writing this up.

http://www.christiananime.net/reviews.php?display=150

[Yojimbo]

Honestly I think it's missleading to review a series that isn't even done running in American or been completely released on DVD. Also the geisha robots were being controlled by an unknown cyborg working for the conspirators who stole the minister's body and brain case. The geisha robot's never killed anyone, their objective was only to set it up so the unknown man would be "killed." While in reality only his body was destroyed since he switched bodies with the minister and had his brain secured in the case.

[Gypsy]

Yojimbo, accusing Hitokiri of being misleading is out of line, not to mention unfounded. He's just as dedicated to giving anime reviews a Christian perspective as all the other reviewers. Also, just because a series isn't released in America doesn't mean he hasn't seen the entire thing. He's written many reviews for CAA and he knows the rules - one of the biggest being that a series must be seen in its entirety.

[Yojimbo]

Yojimbo, accusing Hitokiri of being misleading is out of line, not to mention unfounded. He's just as dedicated to giving anime reviews a Christian perspective as all the other reviewers. Also, just because a series isn't released in America doesn't mean he hasn't seen the entire thing. He's written many reviews for CAA and he knows the rules - one of the biggest being that a series must be seen in its entirety.

I'm sorry if you take it that way but this is how it is. Stand Alone Complex has not been fully released here in America. It's on Episode 16 starting Saturday on Adult Swim. I own the first four volumes on DVD and the fifth will not be released till March 22.

http://schedule.adultswim.com/servlet/ScheduleServlet?action=viewAll&showID=330847&show=Ghost+In+The+Shell&filter=as

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00076YP1C/qid=1108682706/sr=1-10/ref=sr_1_10/102-5231583-0136105?v=glance&s=dvd

And the series will not be released in it's entirety until July 26. I do my homework....

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=910

And I quote the review itself

I am not sure about the latter episodes

Now there is the possibilty that someone could have seen the entire series. But...that would mean either it would be fansubs or bootlegs. Fansubs as we know are translated by fans. Fansubs do not do the the final product justice in terms of video and sound quality. Nor are they translated perfectly. So if it was fansubs then that would one be misleading because someone is obviously not seeing the final subbing. Not to mention the fact that some fansubs are sometimes cut and paste jobs with missing scenes and the like.

Now if it was from a bootleg... I shouldn't even have to mention the fact that someone is reviewing an illegal product. But for many of the same reasons as a fansub. Bootleg company subs are usually less than stellar as we know and of course the video and audio quality is not a reflection on the final legit product nor in the case of the Stand Alone Complex bootleg is it dubbed. I shouldn't even have to mention the fact that someone is reviewing an illegal product.

This is a picture of the bootleg that it is primarily being sold on ebay and some other sites.
http://www.evertoys.com/dvd/images/ghost_inner.jpg

[Hitokiri]

First of all, I understand where Yojimba has been getting at and I have the first 4 DVD's as well and I have the next DVD 5 reserved. When I was judging on the content, I looked at the usual content of the anime and made a educated guess.

Unless someone has seen the fan subs of it, I'm guessing everyone is in the same boat. But I will keep track of this anime to provide content I found later that may prove bad.

Alot of people were wondering about this series and I felt it was ok to write up a review making a educated guess on the content from what I have seen. However, I agree it is important to watch the anime in it's enitrety before writing a review. Though I did see a Naruto and FMA reviews up as well which to my knowledge (unless I am wrong on Full Metal Alchemest) has not been released to the US and Naruto just finally got liscensed.

If it truly bugs you Yojimbo, we could have the review removed until all the DVDs were released.

[FadedOne]

hmm....regardless of previous comments here, I thought that was a lovely review.

[Yojimbo]

First of all, I understand where Yojimba has been getting at and I have the first 4 DVD's as well and I have the next DVD 5 reserved. When I was judging on the content, I looked at the usual content of the anime and made a educated guess.

Unless someone has seen the fan subs of it, I'm guessing everyone is in the same boat. But I will keep track of this anime to provide content I found later that may prove bad.

Alot of people were wondering about this series and I felt it was ok to write up a review making a educated guess on the content from what I have seen. However, I agree it is important to watch the anime in it's enitrety before writing a review. Though I did see a Naruto and FMA reviews up as well which to my knowledge (unless I am wrong on Full Metal Alchemest) has not ended and Naruto just finally got liscensed.

If it truly bugs you Yojimbo, we could have the review removed until all the DVDs were released.

I just don't think it is a good thing until at least all of the show has been fully released on DVD. I don't even think it's a good idea to base a review off of watching it on TV for the matter. Since none of us know what's going to happen past Volume 4 at this moment I don't think a review can be properly written. People look to the reviews on this site for a complete one with a Christian perspective. I'd hate for someone to be shocked and see something that was not mentioned in a review just because it was written before the series is complete.

Honestly it should be removed along with every other series that has not been fully released on DVD here in America TV or no. Even the TV versions are not a good thing to base a real review on. For one they're usually edited somewhat in the areas of nudity, sexual content, and violence. Secondly can anyone honestly say they can give a complete review on an entire series while watching it on TV from memory? Especially with long series that are 50+ episodes there is no way unless you taped every single one that you could remember enough to give a detailed, thorough, and objective review on all of the content.

Remember that not only are people looking to these reviews to find out whether it's acceptable or not to watch, but also to purchase. And we know that fansubs, bootlegs, and even the edited TV versions are not the complete versions of the show that will ultimately be put on the shelves and people will purchase. That is what is misleading and that is why this, Full Metal Alchemist, Naruto, and any others should be removed and rewritten when the complete versions are released.

I apologize if I seemed hostile in my previous posts but like I've explained this is why I feel as I do. Also not to mention the fact that I desperately want to review this anime and when I first saw this I got a little bitter. Also I need some clarification if it's possible to have multiple reviews for one anime title. If not there should be because it's not a good idea for anyone to base their decision to watch/buy it on one person's opinion no matter who's written it.

[Hitokiri]

I agree with you but I dislike arguing (nor am I trying to defend the review I wrote). You said no one knows what happens after DVD 4 (unless someone watched it on fansubs which you said you shouldn't write a review based on that). Than how could anyone come to CAA and be shocked to see something not on thier when it has gotten past DVD 4 yet?

Unless they saw what happens after DVD 4 through fan subs or bootlegs. And this isn't the final review, it would be updated of course as the series moves on and if Gypsy has the time to update. Alot of stuff happens int he first 4 DVD's that should be mentioned to people who are intrested. I, myself, was shocked at Episode 10 "Jungle Cruise" and if I would have known what it was, I proably wouldn't of watched it.

Oh and I checked with Mr. Smartypants and he has seen FMA in it's entirety. As for two reviews, wouldn't be better for either the two reviews to be combined or two people who want to write the review to work together to provide a review.

[Yojimbo]

I agree with you but I dislike arguing (nor am I trying to defend the review I wrote). You said no one knows what happens after DVD 4 (unless someone watched it on fansubs which you said you shouldn't write a review based on that). Than how could anyone come to CAA and be shocked to see something not on thier when it has gotten past DVD 4 yet?

Unless they saw what happens after DVD 4 through fan subs or bootlegs. And this isn't the final review, it would be updated of course as the series moves on and if Gypsy has the time to update. Alot of stuff happens int he first 4 DVD's that should be mentioned to people who are intrested. I, myself, was shocked at Episode 10 "Jungle Cruise" and if I would have known what it was, I proably wouldn't of watched it.

Oh and I checked with Mr. Smartypants and he has seen FMA in it's entirety. As for two reviews, wouldn't be better for either the two reviews to be combined or two people who want to write the review to work together to provide a review.

I know we discussed this over AIM but I'm just making this clear for anyone else who reads this.

It shouldn't be Gypsy's responsibility to make sure an incomplete review is updated as a series progresses. And if you're going to review volumes 1-4 then it's important that you label it so. By reading that someone could get the impression that you're reviewing the entire series. Besides we had a SAC thread going for awhile and I thoroughly explained the stuff in "Jungle Cruise" days after it came out on DVD. So if someone's really curious about the content they can do a search.

Yeah but those were fansubs off of bittorrent. As in the Japanese version of the show with an unnoficial butchered translation, poor video and audio quality, (at least not on par with the complete Region 1 version) no dubbing, and who knows maybe even some scenes that aren't in the Region 1 DVD's.

I take alot of pride in what I write as my own. Nobody writes the same way. I always make sure I have as much detail as possible. I meticulously watch through things before I write analyzing them, and then take alot care in writing about it. I try hard to never leave out a single detail about any content that is neccesary. And I try to write a thorough complete review and not just a synopsis. I would feel it would be a waste of time to combine reviews.

[Gypsy]

It shouldn't be Gypsy's responsibility to make sure an incomplete review is updated as a series progresses.

Actually, it is my responsibility. When I or any other staffer accepts a review, it becomes their responsibility. I made a mistake and misunderstood certain statements in the review.

And if you're going to review volumes 1-4 then it's important that you label it so.

This is true. This is also a good way for your review to either stay in pending or to be deleted. Unless you have specific permission from a staff member before submission, partial reviews are not accepted. I'll cover this more in the proper thread later. I'll also go over the proper treatment of reviews based on fansubs and such.

As for this review staying up, I honestly don't know. I'm too tired at the moment to make a fair choice, so everyone can hold their horses until tomorrow. And I'm sorry about all this mess.

[Gypsy]

It shouldn't be Gypsy's responsibility to make sure an incomplete review is updated as a series progresses.

Actually, it is my responsibility. When I or any other staffer accepts a review, it becomes their responsibility. I made a mistake and misunderstood certain statements in the review.

And if you're going to review volumes 1-4 then it's important that you label it so.

This is true. This is also a good way for your review to either stay in pending or to be deleted. Unless you have specific permission from a staff member before submission, partial reviews are not accepted. I'll cover this more in the proper thread later. I'll also go over the proper treatment of reviews based on fansubs and such.

As for this review staying up, I honestly don't know. I'm too tired at the moment to make a fair choice, so everyone can hold their horses until tomorrow. And I'm sorry about all this mess.

[EKmisao]

If it helps in the argument here any, Stand Alone Complex has been legally aired on Southeast Asia in its entirety, on Animax. It's currently running there now. hitokiri's comments on the show are correct and legitimate. My opinion? Don't remove the review. Ultimately, it will make things harder for hitokiri and Gypsy if the review is taken out then re-placed.

http://www.animax-asia.com (just check the TV schedules there)

And really, if some of you live where I live, you would not be so picky about fansubbing being distributed (sob, sob.......). In some places, that's the only way to get anime.

EK 8 )

[Hitokiri]

Actually, it is my responsibility. When I or any other staffer accepts a review, it becomes their responsibility. I made a mistake and misunderstood certain statements in the review.


This is true. This is also a good way for your review to either stay in pending or to be deleted. Unless you have specific permission from a staff member before submission, partial reviews are not accepted. I'll cover this more in the proper thread later. I'll also go over the proper treatment of reviews based on fansubs and such.

As for this review staying up, I honestly don't know. I'm too tired at the moment to make a fair choice, so everyone can hold their horses until tomorrow. And I'm sorry about all this mess.

I am honestly sorry for creating this whole mess. Sorry about causing you Gypsy any undo stress. I did not think or consider the reprocutions when I submitted the review.

[Gypsy]

If it helps in the argument here any, Stand Alone Complex has been legally aired on Southeast Asia in its entirety, on Animax. It's currently running there now. hitokiri's comments on the show are correct and legitimate. My opinion? Don't remove the review. Ultimately, it will make things harder for hitokiri and Gypsy if the review is taken out then re-placed.

http://www.animax-asia.com (just check the TV schedules there)

And really, if some of you live where I live, you would not be so picky about fansubbing being distributed (sob, sob.......). In some places, that's the only way to get anime.

EK 8 )

Thank you, EKmisao. I had already decided this morning to keep the review up, and your post makes me feel like I've made the right decision. Thank you for taking the time to let me know.

So, yes, the review is staying and will be updated accordingly. It will also be clearly marked that it's a partial review until it can be put in its complete form. If you have any questions of this, please read my (future) post about review submission. Once again, it will cover things such as fansubs, partial reviews and all this stuff that we found out was so fun. Thank you, everyone for being understanding, and carry on.

[GhostontheNet]

I am honestly sorry for creating this whole mess. Sorry about causing you Gypsy any undo stress. I did not think or consider the reprocutions when I submitted the review.

I see no real reason to be sorry for hasty ado on someone else's part. Your review accurately adresses what is known of the series until this time, and will be updated as it progresses. That being said, having been tempted to write this review, but beaten to it, I will provide some constructive commentary]YHWH[/B]'s gift to mankind, as watching a rape. This is confirmed in the sounds the victim makes audible from his computer, and that enough of her is visible on his sunglasses to show that she is by no means enjoying it. I know I was meticulous when showing my younger brother everything so far of the laughing man saga, to skip over this. Also, the same episode and the dialogue between the Major and the nurse (who was, to the careful observer, one of the same women in episode 5), a three way lesbian relationship is heavily implied, although no perversions are actually shown (unlike the Japanese version of Shirow's manga). Also, though not sexual under the normal definition, having finished the episode 10 which you had not, I would classify hacking people and forcing them to watch themselves be skinned alive a new form of murder rape, and would strongly advise against any rape victims watching this episode (although I would not extend this to everyone, as its main purpose, I think, and one that it succeeds at, is to demonstrate the depths of the horrible things people can do to each other).

Bad Religion: By no means I think, does it deserve 5/10 for this criteria for the simple reasons of "Many people are connected to electronics and most, almost all machine – in short, they’re androids. Also there are clones. There are some cult references in some episodes as well." This may not at present be the view of many, but at present I can see nothing wrong with being a cyborg, for man seems to have been built from the beginning for augmentation (take a look at you hands, without using them to manipulate objects, they are much worse than a simple set of claws), and we already use more limited forms of augmentation and have for centuries dependent on the available technology (the cripple walks with a cane, I always wear glass lenses to augment my vision, my brother has a tube in his trachea and his stomach). Also, upon previous reflection, I see no reason to believe that clones do not bear as much of the image of YHWH as humans born of sexual union. And the character of whatever religion it is in episode 2 is not said, in fact, for all you know it could be a Christian reaction to what is then modern times.

[Hitokiri]

Man, I can't believe I forgot some of those. As for the entire guy watching the sexual stuff on the computer part, I basically turned down the volume and turned my head away until I noticed that part was over. So my first dinstinction that it was porn and not rape porn.

As for the possible lesbian thing, I completely forgot to add that in there. I made a note of it but it slipped my mind. My apologies.

[GhostontheNet]

Man, I can't believe I forgot some of those. As for the entire guy watching the sexual stuff on the computer part, I basically turned down the volume and turned my head away until I noticed that part was over. So my first dinstinction that it was porn and not rape porn.

As for the possible lesbian thing, I completely forgot to add that in there. I made a note of it but it slipped my mind. My apologies.

Just as a commentary for the future, while skipping episodes or turning down the volume and the like may be good protocol for personal viewing, as a reviewer you are treading the ground for others and it would probably be better to stomach certain things as a lookout. Also, I don't see how you could only say "possible lesbian thing", they talk like they have an affair, they are all wearing skimpy clothing, they sleep on the same bag couch thing, what's to doubt?

[Gypsy]

Just as a commentary for the future, while skipping episodes or turning down the volume and the like may be good protocol for personal viewing, as a reviewer you are treading the ground for others and it would probably be better to stomach certain things as a lookout.

I understand what you're saying, and I completely agree with the main thought behind it. However, I don't want anyone to feel forced to watch something horrible for the simple sake of reviews, especially if you are a younger reviewer. Also, along the same tangent, I really, really don't want to hear of a review becoming an excuse to watch something completely awful. I don't think that any of the existing reviewers would do this, but I do feel like I need to cover the bases.

In short, please do not risk your personal integrity for the sake of a CAA review. If you could not bring yourself to watch a certain part of the series, that's fine. Make a note of it in your review (if you finished the series) and I will take care of it. I think only professional reviewers (as in, the paid kind) are obligated to take such hits for the team, and even then I feel sorry for some of them because of the filth they're forced to trudge through.

In the end, it is always your choice what you watch - you know how much garbage you can personally take, and it's your responsibility to be aware of how certain content will affect you, even if you're watching it for the possible protection of others.

I'm glad the subject was brought up, though, and I'll be going over it in more detail in my upcoming essay/reviewer guideline.

Thank you, GhostontheNet, for bringing those important points up. I'll see that they are added to the review before the end of the day.

[GhostontheNet]

Yes, an amplification upon my comments I'd agree with.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Disgusting... Won't be watching this in this or anylife time.

[Hitokiri]

Also, I don't see how you could only say "possible lesbian thing", they talk like they have an affair, they are all wearing skimpy clothing, they sleep on the same bag couch thing, what's to doubt?

I re-watched it again (I lent that DVD to a friend a while ago so I couldn't watch it when you made the poiint) and I defientnly agree with you. The two, I would say yes, are lesbians. It doesn't help with Motoko wearing her skimpy outfit as well -_-

[GhostontheNet]

Disgusting... Won't be watching this in this or anylife time.

I must disagree, such things are more anomalies in the series than major elements.

[Gypsy]

Ok, GhostontheNet, I've added the additional content instances that you mentioned. If you and Hitokiri would be so kind as to look over the review and let me know of anything else needs to be changed before Hitokir watches and reviews the last installment, I'd appreciate it.

[Hitokiri]

I've talked it over with Yojimbo and when the last DVD is released (around July 26), we are planning to write a ombined SAC review.

[true_noir_chloe]

I have enjoyed GitS:SAC quite a bit. My rating would have probably been at least an 8 out of 10, rather than the 7 that Hitokiri gave it. It is above average when it comes to plotting and storyline. The characters have stayed the same through the previous movies and now this series. The movement of the little blue machines, tachigawas?, is fantastic.

Anyway, thank you for the review, Hitokiri, you did a good job reviewing to a point. It is hard to do a review on a series when you have not watched the entire series. And, I will be glad if in the future Gypsy doesn't allow partial reviews.

I also think it would be a travesty not to allow fansub reviews. As I recall, there have been some (Full Moon wo Sagashite?) done in the past and they helped me in deciding whether I would want to allow my daughter to download a certain series.

Anyway, the soundtrack for SAC is awesome, like Hitokiri mentioned - you can't go wrong with Yoko Kanno. The opening theme is just a beautifully haunting piece.

Also Hitokiri, it would be all right to decline revieiwing a show if you can not stomach it. I'm not sure why you would want to review something you can't bare to watch. You can even ask me to take over if you cannot continue.

This is overall a smart show and it's a very adult show. Someone who enjoys CSI or darker movies would enjoy Ghost in the Shell. It is definitely not a show for kids or those with weaker constitutions for this type of crime drama of the future.

[GhostontheNet]

Ok, GhostontheNet, I've added the additional content instances that you mentioned. If you and Hitokiri would be so kind as to look over the review and let me know of anything else needs to be changed before Hitokir watches and reviews the last installment, I'd appreciate it.

Only one objection, more literary than content wise. That is, there is an insufficient transfer in sentences between the rape porn reflected on the man's sunglasses and the mention of the three way lesbian relationship between Motoko and others, implying that the authors have inflicted reflections of three way lesbian rape porn upon the poor viewers, which is not true.

[Gypsy]

I've talked it over with Yojimbo and when the last DVD is released (around July 26), we are planning to write a ombined SAC review.

I'll PM you about that.

Right then, changed the sentence structure to force more clarity.

As for whatever t_n_c said where I am obligated to reply (sorry for not quoting directly, I'm falling asleep and I'll be glad if I finish this post with no major typos):

Fansubs - yes, we allow the review of fansubs for unrealeased series. We have from the beginning, and we will continue to do so. There are sub rules that go along with this, but I'll be darned if I type them up now.

Reviews for incomplete series - not allowed unless specifically given permission by the staff (and this will hardly ever happen). This particular review is in the database with an unfinished status because of a mistake I made.

I've been promising for dtwo weeks, but soon I'll iron out all these rules in a very clear manner in a seperate thread. That being said, this thread is now specifically for dicussion of Stand Alone Complex - not reviewing policies. Those need to be in PM form.