The Revolutionary Girl Utena

Postby **ryukosaonji** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 3:26 pm

Has any one seen the Japaneese seiries Utena? My friend had the first season on DVD so I watched it. I thought it was pretty good. A few scenes were a little showy, but over all I liked it. Does any one know anything about the movies?

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 3:32 pm

Here's a flameproof suit. you'll need it. ~.^

Seriously, the movies are yuri. I'd stay away from them, but that's just my personal conviction since I'm against graphic depictions of yaoi and yuri.

Postby **ryukosaonji** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 3:40 pm

MillyFan wrote:Here's a flameproof suit. you'll need it. ~.^

Seriously, the movies are yuri. I'd stay away from them, but that's just my personal conviction since I'm against graphic depictions of yaoi and yuri.

Thanks for warning me I really don't know much about it. I just thought it had an interesting plot. I love sword/duel style animes.

Postby **Ashley** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 3:51 pm

Archan posted a review on it...seriously man, stay far, far AWAY.
Ack! And while looking for the url of the thread, I can't seem to find it. It must have gotten left behind at the old boards. I'll drag it back over as soon as I hit the reply button.

Postby **Ashley** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 3:53 pm

Originally posted by Archan
Revolutionary Girl Utena

Basic Story Summery:
The main Heroine of this anime (Utena Tenjou) has the disconfort of her parents dying when she was a little girl. However a prince them comes and somewhat saves her from her situation. This mysterious prince then gives her a rose crest ring and tells her that he will come back for her someday. Utena was so infatuated with this prince and so impressed that she herself wanted to bacome a prince and save damsels in destress. Now a couple of years later she is grown up and studies at the Ohtori Academy where she still holds her self-proclaimed image as a prince and wears her own version of the boys uniform. She then witnesses another girl (Anthy Himemiya) being abused by the Academys top deulist (Saionji Kyouichi). Trying to keep true to her burning abition to save damsels in distress Utena challenges Saionji to a duel where it is found out that Anthy is actually what is called the Rose Bride and whomever is the victor of the duel will recieve Anthy as the prize. Well, Utena wins and Anthy them become her bride. The rest of the series is built upon Utena and Anthys non-conventional relationship and Utena searching for her prince.

What's the Fuss:
There is homosexual subject matter. Plain and simple. Although Utena and Anthy are technically not in a homosexual relationship I have to admit that after seeing some screen shots and art.....as well as reading other reviews and episode syniopsis', it is pretty suggestive and subject to debate in my own eyes. However there is a character whom is homosexual in this series, I think it is Chida Mamiya whom is a male that is conspiring to replace the position or Rose Bride with himself (for obvious reasons I would think). Also there is some content concerning insest in which another character (Kiryuu Nanami) is in love with her brother (Touga Nanami).

Personal Opinions:
Okay....the whole little girl thing and wanting to save other damsles in distress I have no problem with. And I will admit is a good pitch to start an interesting plot and series......also I will also admit that the art altogether as well as the shot direction and everything is beautifully done. It's just the darn Homosexuality that ruins it. It's like it's everywhere and everyone seems to be troubled in the head in one way or another. And say what you want concerning the relationship with Utena and Anthy, there are wayyyyyyyy too many subtile (and not so subtile) signs pointing in the same direction. Also I've visited a couple of other sites and galleries and well, some of the images more then speak for themsleves. One thing to conider though when pondering Utena and Anthy's relationship is that in the Bible Daniel and King Saul's son Jonathan also had a rather strong relationship which is stated in I Samuel 20:17 (Now Jonathan again caused David to vow, because he loved him; for he loved him as he loved his own soul.) However it never says that they desired each other in such a way and when I read about Utena and Anthy I do see Utena somewhat desireing Anthy and vice versa. Although suttle, it's still there. So one must make a judgment call concerning Utena and Anthy's relationship.....either to label it or give them the benifit of the doubt. However concerning Chida Mamiya's character, I find nothing subtle about it. He wants to be the Rose Bride for cryin' out loud! What does that tell ya? Then there's the whole other situation concerning Touga and Kiryuu, in which I find troubling. So I for one woudln't see this anime or reccomend it. Although it has it's good qualities, the subject matter is still there. I just find it a darn shame that such a wonderful anime was ruined because of this, and no doubt could have been more wondeful if the Yaio/ Yuri were left out. *Pout* Cant win em' all I guess.

Explicit Subject Matter:
Homosexuality (Yaio/Yuri) and incest.

Postby **ryukosaonji** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 4:00 pm

Ashley wrote:Originally posted by Archan
Revolutionary Girl Utena

Basic Story Summery:
The main Heroine of this anime (Utena Tenjou) has the disconfort of her parents dying when she was a little girl. However a prince them comes and somewhat saves her from her situation. This mysterious prince then gives her a rose crest ring and tells her that he will come back for her someday. Utena was so infatuated with this prince and so impressed that she herself wanted to bacome a prince and save damsels in destress. Now a couple of years later she is grown up and studies at the Ohtori Academy where she still holds her self-proclaimed image as a prince and wears her own version of the boys uniform. She then witnesses another girl (Anthy Himemiya) being abused by the Academys top deulist (Saionji Kyouichi). Trying to keep true to her burning abition to save damsels in distress Utena challenges Saionji to a duel where it is found out that Anthy is actually what is called the Rose Bride and whomever is the victor of the duel will recieve Anthy as the prize. Well, Utena wins and Anthy them become her bride. The rest of the series is built upon Utena and Anthys non-conventional relationship and Utena searching for her prince.

What's the Fuss:
There is homosexual subject matter. Plain and simple. Although Utena and Anthy are technically not in a homosexual relationship I have to admit that after seeing some screen shots and art.....as well as reading other reviews and episode syniopsis', it is pretty suggestive and subject to debate in my own eyes. However there is a character whom is homosexual in this series, I think it is Chida Mamiya whom is a male that is conspiring to replace the position or Rose Bride with himself (for obvious reasons I would think). Also there is some content concerning insest in which another character (Kiryuu Nanami) is in love with her brother (Touga Nanami).

Personal Opinions:
Okay....the whole little girl thing and wanting to save other damsles in distress I have no problem with. And I will admit is a good pitch to start an interesting plot and series......also I will also admit that the art altogether as well as the shot direction and everything is beautifully done. It's just the darn Homosexuality that ruins it. It's like it's everywhere and everyone seems to be troubled in the head in one way or another. And say what you want concerning the relationship with Utena and Anthy, there are wayyyyyyyy too many subtile (and not so subtile) signs pointing in the same direction. Also I've visited a couple of other sites and galleries and well, some of the images more then speak for themsleves. One thing to conider though when pondering Utena and Anthy's relationship is that in the Bible Daniel and King Saul's son Jonathan also had a rather strong relationship which is stated in I Samuel 20:17 (Now Jonathan again caused David to vow, because he loved him]Explicit Subject Matter:[/B]
Homosexuality (Yaio/Yuri) and incest.

Wow O.O You must really have alot of time on your hands to type that much. I guess I should stay away from it(duh) to sad it looked like a good show...oh well I'm just glad I didn't have to find that out by watching it

Postby **Ashley** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 4:17 pm

For the record, I didn't sit down and type that up. I just copy-pasted it from the archieved forums, that's all. And yes, I'm quite glad you didn't have to experience a bad anime like that too.

Postby **Technomancer** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:48 am

Just an observation since I've had to suffer through the movie at a club showing once. Although there are heavy undertones throughout the show, there is nothing graphic or explicit about it. However, it is still a truly god-awful film by any other criteria.

Postby **Celtic_Moon** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:40 pm

The Movie was honest to goodness confusing as all get out. But The manga is beautyful and the story/plotline flows evenly.
The reason that so many anime show same sex relationships is because in Asian culture there isn't as much taboo about the subject as we have in Westrn culture. Also, in my opinion, love is a gift from God and you can't control who you fall in love with anymore than you can control the tide. So, if you're going to avoid an anime simply because you disagree with the relationships of the charactors, you're going to miss out on alot.

Postby **Psycho Ann** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 1:57 am

Just butting in here about can't controlling who you love.

Yes, God ultimately decides who you love and end up with.

But then God explicitly states that homosexuality is a sin.

Therefore we can conclude that God would NOT make your "soulmate" to be of the same gender, less He is being hypocritical which is absolutely impossible.

And being Asian myself and spending a whole lot of time in Asia.... homosexuality is a bigger taboo there than in the States (you will probably NEVER see a gay pride parade). Only because of this taboo, coupled with the natural instinct to rebel, many animanga come out with yaoi/yuri tones.

And the masses just LOVE conterversy and "against the norm" stories. Wala! "Asian pretty boys and girls are all potentially gay!!" And we all know how much the media controls society.

The more yaoi/yuri stuff coming out, the more it seems "natural". And really, missing out a "good" movie or two is definitely worth avoiding the feel of your flesh crawling.

Ah, just my one and a half cents ^^

And to still have a toe in the topic, Utena is really worth avoiding. Gaah, just looking at the images and movie posters were enough to have me sprinting in the opposite direction....

Postby **shooraijin** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:22 am

> So, if you're going to avoid an anime simply because you disagree with the relationships of the charactors, you're going to miss out on alot.

With all due respect, the point of this forum (Ashley and the admins can correct me if I'm misguided) is to advance, look for, and select for anime and manga that's compatible with our Christian morals and ethics.

I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion of what those morals might be (which usually becomes contentious), but "missing out on a lot" is the least of our worries, and it definitely isn't the point. The point is to have an intelligent, Christ-focused filter.

To paraphrase, better your DVDs end up in the wastebasket than your entire being end up lost.

Postby **Gypsy** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:22 am

Psycho Ann wrote:
And really, missing out a "good" movie or two is definitely worth avoiding the feel of your flesh crawling.

Exactly.

shooraijin wrote:
To paraphrase, better your DVDs end up in the wastebasket than your entire being end up lost.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Excellent replies, both of you.

Postby **Celtic_Moon** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:39 am

I'm sorry, but who are you to judge whether I have the right to voice my opinions or not? I don't believe that simply watching something on TV is going to send your soul into eternal damnation (unless of course you decide o follow thru on whatever you watch). And isn't part of being a Christian being respectful towards others and their opinions? Didn't Jesus say to love one another as I have loved you?
I'm not very good at this whole avoid everything questionable. No, I'm not going to let young children go out and watch some violent movie. But I'm also not going to hide my head under a rock and pretend that the whole world doesn't exist outside of my personal beliefs. My grandma does that and it doesn't work very well.
Yes, if something bothers you, don't watch it, but don't be so negative about other's points of veiw simply because they don't mirror your own.
I know that I'm rather new here, but that doesn't mean that what I have to say is less important than what someone who has been here longer than me says.

faith hope and love are some good things he gave us, the greatest is love

Postby **Ashley** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:55 am

I'm sorry, but who are you to judge whether I have the right to voice my opinions or not?

When did anyone say you didn't?

I don't believe that simply watching something on TV is going to send your soul into eternal damnation (unless of course you decide o follow thru on whatever you watch).

Nor do we. There's countless threads---for example this one I just replied to here; see last paragraph--that point out we're not going to condemn anyone for liking or disliking things. We agree with the above quote completely. We get a bit miffed when people start defending questionable things, but not ONCE has any of the administration or the members to my knowledge ever said anything about condemnation or damnation. This whole community was started as a place to A-fellowship with other Christian fans, B- raise awareness that not all anime is evil or porn, etc. and C- give fair reviews for titles. That does not include telling people what to watch, it means telling people what titles have things they could be concerned about in them.

And isn't part of being a Christian being respectful towards others and their opinions? Didn't Jesus say to love one another as I have loved you?

There's a very big difference between loving someone and being respectful of them, and tolerating everything. Christ did not tolerate the Pharisees when they twisted scripture, nor did he tolerate other religions when He said Himself "I am the way the truth and the life." He was polite to them, and He did not--to put this in modern terms--flame them. In other words, Christ loved the world, but He did not tolerate it. But He did exactly what we're doing: warn them and let them chose their own path. Point: yes Christ said to be respectful and love others, but that doesn't mean we should shut up and let everyone do their own thing.

I'm not very good at this whole avoid everything questionable. No, I'm not going to let young children go out and watch some violent movie. But I'm also not going to hide my head under a rock and pretend that the whole world doesn't exist outside of my personal beliefs. My grandma does that and it doesn't work very well.
Yes, if something bothers you, don't watch it, but don't be so negative about other's points of veiw simply because they don't mirror your own.

We have the right to disagree with the world's portrayl of views just like you do. As I said before, we're just pointing out what's "wrong" with a series from Christian eyes. And since when is it a bad thing to be negative about something God Himself condemns? I think being only "negative" about something like that would be rather shallow.

Guess what? Some Christians aren't as mature as others, and we're quite aware of that, so we're not going to clam up and live in our own little world, and ignore the bad things in anime or shrug them off as entertainment. Because what may be just a tv show to you and I may be the crumbling point for someone else's faith. And I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't want to stand before God and try to explain why I left something out of a review I wrote and it turns out to have stumbled someone else. Oh, we're gonna shout out our views, and try to reach the world outside of our "personal beliefs". That's what it means to be a Christian.

I know that I'm rather new here, but that doesn't mean that what I have to say is less important than what someone who has been here longer than me says.

Again, no one said it wasn't.

Postby **SMoonEmpress** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 11:25 am

Ashley wrote: Guess what? Some Christians aren't as mature as others, and we're quite aware of that, so we're not going to clam up and live in our own little world, and ignore the bad things in anime or shrug them off as entertainment. Because what may be just a tv show to you and I may be the crumbling point for someone else's faith. And I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't want to stand before God and try to explain why I left something out of a review I wrote and it turns out to have stumbled someone else. Oh, we're gonna shout out our views, and try to reach the world outside of our "personal beliefs". That's what it means to be a Christian.
Again, no one said it wasn't.

While I hate to jump into this conversation, Ashley brings up a very valid point. While all Christians should strive to stay away from objectionable material, it is true that some Christians are more "mature" in their faith than others, and therefore might be, er, relatively safe (I hate using that word, it seems wrong somehow. Maybe "not as prone to fall"?) in viewing non-Christian material. However, a Christian would never want to endorse the anime to a non-Christian, nor a new-Christian, nor a struggling Christian. So it's usually best to just stay away from it.

However, I myself have watched the Utena movie. It's true there are homosexual undertones, and some objectionable scenes, but I still rather enjoyed the art and the music, and even had fun trying to figure out all the symbolism. I would never, ever recommend it though to any fellow Christians (or even non-Christians for that matter), unless they knew ahead of time of what it contained and felt relatively comfortable in their faith.

Like Ashley said: no one wants to be responsible for another Christian's downfall. That is why CAA can't endorse it. Some people might be able to handle it, others won't. And really, because of it's non-Christian material, we should all try to stay away from it.

Postby **BrianC** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:25 pm

It's interesting how many of the posts here seem to only be referring to the movie. I'm going to say neutral on this since I haven't seen enough of Utena for an opinion, but I think topics for movies and TV series should be seperate. Some movies differ quite greatly in content from the TV series.

Postby **Christianotaku** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:31 am

hmm this brings up a very valid question .

WHAT IS IT WITH THE JAPANESE AND PANTIES?

seriously!

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:41 pm

And that brings up yet another, *really* valid question:

What is it with you and SPAM?

Do you want to get banned?

Postby **inkhana** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:48 pm

All right. Thank you, St. Peter. Back on topic everybody...Utena.

First, Ban all the Trolls. . . · Postby **MillyFan** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:56 am

Sorry. ^sigh^

Postby **Mithrandir** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:28 am

Perhaps this is staying off topic, but it may be worth saying (or at the very least moving). I've seen enough people misinterperate the intentions of this site to wonder if we are not doing a good enough job explaining it to people. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to insult ANYONE). We already have that [insert favorite adjective here] splash page on the front page, right? Could we put some copy there that may ease some of this tension? I would think something like, "CAA's mission is to serve Christ by:
1. Give Christ-centered reviews of anime.
2. blah blah blah."
Before you go off on me, this is just what I've found in my web/marketing career. Also, studdies show that in general, people WILL read short lists, but will NOT read a paragraph of text. (I'm not impying that I am the end all source of knowledge in this field by any means.) Anyway, I'm also not trying to create tension or dissention here. I just thought a little experience that I've had may be helpful. Or if you'd like, I'll keep my design prefs/exps to myself from now on. Feel free to move/delete this post where/if appropriate.

Postby **Gypsy** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:09 am

You're absolutely right, and we've been talking about a different system for the reviews and such. Any help or suggestions you'd want to offer would be very much appreciated.

Postby **Mithrandir** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:17 am

Well, I'm a database guy by nature, so I'd do something that is searchable, and has standardized formatting, along with age-appropriatness builtin to the top level display function. There would be a 'discuss this review' link that would tie directly into the board. Let me setup an example and get back to you.

Postby **Mithrandir** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:03 am

I'm posting my concept HTML in the "New Projects" area.

Postby **Christianotaku** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:21 am

it was not a spam its something i really am interested and i think this thread should be closed down because some people here have tendencies to fight with everyone in the whole wide world

and thos people should see a shrink or something because there suffering from acute argumentavness

Postby **inkhana** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 9:11 am

>it was not a spam its something i really am interested

That issue is closed. MillyFan won't say anything else about it, I'm sure...provided you stay on topic.

>and i think this thread should be closed down because some people here have tendencies to fight with everyone in the whole wide world

The thread is intended to be about Utena. You can try to start a thread about your question, if you like. But closing a thread won't stop people from disagreeing with you...or attempting to "fight" with you.

>and thos people should see a shrink or something because there suffering from acute argumentavness

Please don't make any more comments like this. They aren't helpful.

Postby **Celtic_Moon** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:18 pm

I'm just gonna say that the movie scared and confused me. I mean, one minute Utena and some guy are talking, then poof there's a bed room? Dude, I want some telportation skills like that!!! It'd save on plane tickets!

Postby **ShiroiHikari** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 9:33 pm

Well, thanks for the info PiaSharn :] I also appreciate that you were civilized in presenting it. ^_^

Although, I still don't think CAA will exactly -endorse- this series, since there is still a lot of content in it that we, for the most part, would consider questionable.

Anyway, thanks again for clearin' things up. ust out of curiosity, how did you find us? PM me if you like :]

Postby **Kenchii** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:39 pm

Actually, my friend is in love with this anime series. Personally I think it is a real Shoujo (really only for girls) and my friend is a guy.. I watched the movie and some episodes, and the art is unbelievable. Otherwise the story was alright, but It is intended towards females. That is why I stayed away from it. ><x

Postby **MyrrhLynn** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:01 am

My goodness! A person could choke on all the drama in this thread! o_o

Anyway, I started watching both the movie and the series. They're both strange. And I agree with the review that there is a lot of homosexuality hinted/winked at. Although I have heard that the dub version somhow manages to cover up most of that.

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