Fairy Tales, Morbid fun for the children.

A place to discuss your favorite authors and poets, Christian and secular

Fairy Tales, Morbid fun for the children.

Postby Scribs » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:37 am

Fairy tales. We all heard them when we were kids, but did we really hear the real thing? What did your parents say happened to Little Red Riding Hood's Granny? Was she stuffed in a closet, or devoured by the wolf?

Fairy Tales originated in the area that is now Germany as a teaching tool for children. They all had a message and almost all of them involved someone getting brutally killed or mutilated. It was morbid, but it got the point across quite well. However, in this day and age people don’t seem to think that children should be exposed to such stories, and so they make sappy alterations, where every one ends up OK. Instead of being eaten, the two little pigs who had inadequate building styles run to their brother for protection. Instead of being roasted alive, the big bad wolf quite often just runs off with only a singed behind. At first this may seem like a good idea, we don’t want to give those little kids nightmares right?

But, if there is not accountability for the characters in the stories, what are we telling the children? Are we telling them that it is ok to be irresponsible because they can always go running to the piggy with the brick house for safety?

So what do you think? Should we keep the morbid stuff from the young ones, or scare them into behaving like in the old days?
"I concluded from the begining that this would be the end; and I am right, for it is not half over."
-Sir Boyle Roche
User avatar
Scribs
 
Posts: 2722
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:00 am
Location: Unknown

Postby shooraijin » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:29 am

Scare the pants off the little brats, that's what I say. Spare the rod and freak out the kid.
"you're a doctor.... and 27 years.... so...doctor + 27 years = HATORI SOHMA" - RoyalWing, when I was 27
"Al hail the forum editting Shooby! His vibes are law!" - Osaka-chan

I could still be champ, but I'd feel bad taking it away from one of the younger guys. - George Foreman
User avatar
shooraijin
 
Posts: 9928
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 12:00 pm
Location: Southern California

Postby Arnobius » Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:18 am

Fairy Tales were originally tales for grownups I'm told. Sex and violence in the originals (Rapunzel: :eh: ) They could be rather morbid, and the Grimm brothers were aptly named.
User avatar
Arnobius
 
Posts: 2870
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:41 pm

Postby Scribs » Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:47 am

I am fairly confident that the majority of fairy tales were intended for children, although they did contain large ammounts of violence ect.
"I concluded from the begining that this would be the end; and I am right, for it is not half over."
-Sir Boyle Roche
User avatar
Scribs
 
Posts: 2722
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:00 am
Location: Unknown

Postby Sparrowhawk » Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:59 am

Well, I don't believe in making EVERYTHING soft for kids, especially since they are going to hear it from someone. At the same time, I don't think gore is necessary.

For example, C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia did not soften the outcome, but it did not go into great lengths to describe gore. For example one of the evil characters gets decapitated, but it does not go into a horrible grotesque scene, just simply states what happened.

People do, sadly, seem to naturally love gore and horror (for someone reason, killings and thefts always make headlines, a lot more often than a effort to help people. Good deeds are only told of when the odds of death were high, and horror movies are always a big hit) and i dont think it is good to teach people that. At the same time, if we tell them that life is all apple pie in the sky with the occasional burnt crust, they quickly figure out thats not true either and then may think all things good are false. I think you should tell what really happens but dont become obssessed.

Wow, i did not mean to say that much. Anyway, I did not vote because there was both answers were to extreme. I dont think horror or rainbowland should be stressed too much. Well, thats my two cents, sorry for making it so long.
Image
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7

"The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say."
-Fellowship of the Ring, by JRR Tolkien
______________________________________________
"...And let us run with endurance the race that God has set before us." -Hebrews 12:1b (NLT)
User avatar
Sparrowhawk
 
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:04 pm
Location: College

Postby Aka-chan » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:20 am

The main reason I don't like dubs is that they take the original and "soften" them up, ignoring the original intentions for the story. It only holds to reason that I would feel the same way about maintaining the original fairy tales.
User avatar
Aka-chan
 
Posts: 1546
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:30 am
Location: ...here...

Postby uc pseudonym » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:14 pm

I also heard that most "fairy tales" were originally targeted toward children.

When I was young my parents never read me fairy tales, not having a very high opinion of them. However, I did read some, and they were always the more violent versions. I cannot say that this traumatized me as a child, or particularly desensitized me to violence.
User avatar
uc pseudonym
 
Posts: 15506
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:00 am
Location: Tanzania

Postby ShiroiHikari » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:23 pm

It's not any worse than the crap they watch on television nowadays, so I say why not. At least then you'd be reading with your child instead of sticking them in front of the TV.
fightin' in the eighties
User avatar
ShiroiHikari
 
Posts: 7564
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 12:00 pm
Location: Somewhere between 1983 and 1989

Postby mitsuki lover » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:01 pm

Yes give the little darlings the full blown version.
User avatar
mitsuki lover
 
Posts: 8486
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:00 pm

Postby Arnobius » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:22 pm

Scribs wrote:I am fairly confident that the majority of fairy tales were intended for children, although they did contain large ammounts of violence ect.

In the original Rapunzel, the witch found out about the prince's visits because she was pregnant I believe.

Recently came out with a new translation from the German. Some of these tales derive from pre-Christian German myths I understand.

Anyway, not looking to start a fight by stating what I heard... just passing it along for the interest of others.
User avatar
Arnobius
 
Posts: 2870
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:41 pm

Postby TurkishMonky » Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:55 pm

not to mention sleeping beauty... that's really messed up as well. actually, some of the fairy tales may be worse then the FCC regulated tv...
User avatar
TurkishMonky
 
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:07 am

Postby Arnobius » Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:58 pm

TurkishMonky wrote:not to mention sleeping beauty... that's really messed up as well. actually, some of the fairy tales may be worse then the FCC regulated tv...

Oh yeah... I forgot about that one. Those Ann Rice rewrites may be a redundancy when you go back to the oldest printings of the fairy tales
User avatar
Arnobius
 
Posts: 2870
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:41 pm

Postby kazekami » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:31 pm

I started reading the real ones in Junior High. I thought they were more intresting then the softened ones. Though some of the tales are pretty creepy. Definetly a lot of morbid ones. Like the one where the step mother murdered her step son and then cooked him for dinner. The theres the one where the step mother cut of the step daughters hands. And Blue Beard with the room full of corpses. Lots of blood, cannabalism, murder, and sex. But there are also those without.

Yeah I think I remember Repunzal being pregnat in the original too.

I have a book my sister gave me that she used in a class that has multiple versions of different fairy tales in it. It's pretty intresting.
Meow!

adopted by spirit-me-away and CephasVII

proud adopter of:
Azier the Swordsman, Sakura's Wings(kitty form), Sora(kingdom Hearts), Squall Leonhart(FFVIII and KH), Li Syaoran(Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles),
kurogane (Tsubasa Resevoir Chronicles) blessedsolitude, Animagus24, scarletfire818, LeaChan-4ever, teen4truth, Starfire1, Kura Ookami, 1BalloonPopper, Sheenar, Dunedan, Fantasy Dreamer, starfire, zelda, Erin

I like swords. They are nice and shiny and sharp. :jump:

I Love
^__^
( ^.^)
(\/ \/)
(,,)(,,)

T3h Neko
KITTIES WILL RULE THE UNIVERSE!!!!
User avatar
kazekami
 
Posts: 809
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:37 am
Location: Washington State

Postby Maledicte » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:39 pm

kazekami wrote:I started reading the real ones in Junior High. I thought they were more intresting then the softened ones. Though some of the tales are pretty creepy. Definetly a lot of morbid ones. Like the one where the step mother murdered her step son and then cooked him for dinner.


That would be The Juniper Tree, correct? Oddly enough, that's my favorite Grimm's tale.

I'd also like to mention Oscar Wilde's fairy tales. While hardly morbid, they are often quite sad yet convey a message (like the Young King's lesson of humility). Good examples of fairy tales with a moral lesson.
User avatar
Maledicte
 
Posts: 2078
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:39 pm

Postby Warrior 4 Jesus » Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:51 pm

I was only ever told/read the sanitized versions. I knew the originals were more graphic but I've never read them. How would I find them. Just curious. Not morbid. (lol)
User avatar
Warrior 4 Jesus
 
Posts: 4844
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:52 pm
Location: The driest continent that isn't Antarctica.

Postby bigsleepj » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:14 pm

The real version of Snow White, for instance, ended quite differently. The Young Prince did not kiss her to break the spell (that must have spilled over from Sleeping Beauty) but found her in a glass chest with the seven dwarfs holding vigil around her, and says that he'll take her with her to his castle (love at first sight). He begs the dwarfs to give up her glass coffin - and they relent reluctantly. While carrying her the prince's men dropped the coffin and the piece of enchanted apple dislodged from her throat - and she awoke. The prince declares his love and they marry.

And now we get to the violent part - the evil Queen, her stepmother, asks her mirror who is the fairest of them all, the mirror says "the young bride of the Prince". The Queen goes to their wedding to see for herself - and sees Snow White, who recognises her stepmother as well. As punishment for her evil deeds the blacksmiths fashion for the Queen red hot shoes of iron. She is then forced to step into the red-hot shoes and dance until she falls down dead. Not gory, but brutal.
User avatar
bigsleepj
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: South Africa - Oh yes, better believe it!

Postby bigsleepj » Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:19 pm

Edit: the original 1001 Arabian Night Stories are also very much R-rated.
User avatar
bigsleepj
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: South Africa - Oh yes, better believe it!

Postby mitsuki lover » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:40 pm

The original Arabian Nights were told as a way for Schezerade to keep her head.
In the background of the tales the Sultan who marries her as just been cuckolded
by his wife.His brother advises him the best way of enjoying a wife is to have her
beheaded the day after the marriage.So the Sultan does just this and then it
comes time for him to marry Schezerade(sorry spelling).To literarly keep her head she starts to tell him a story that grabs his interest but at sun up she stops.
So he has to let her live or else he'll miss the stories climax.
This goes on for 1,001 nights(hence the subtitle)until the Sultan has forgotten
all about hacking off her head.
User avatar
mitsuki lover
 
Posts: 8486
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:00 pm

Postby Warrior 4 Jesus » Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:51 pm

But that's the only version I've ever read and heard of. What's the sanitized version like then?
User avatar
Warrior 4 Jesus
 
Posts: 4844
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:52 pm
Location: The driest continent that isn't Antarctica.

Postby Rachel » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:50 pm

TurkishMonky wrote:not to mention sleeping beauty... that's really messed up as well. actually, some of the fairy tales may be worse then the FCC regulated tv...

Not to sound morbid or anything, but what happens?
:rock: I mourn for those who never knew you



Click here for kick booty music!!

American by birth, Texan by the grace of God


This is where you can find me if I'm not on for a while
User avatar
Rachel
 
Posts: 1056
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2003 10:00 am
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas

Postby Arnobius » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:08 pm

Warrior 4 Jesus wrote:But that's the only version I've ever read and heard of. What's the sanitized version like then?

Same here-- so I presume it's the stories and not the premise that leads to it.
User avatar
Arnobius
 
Posts: 2870
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:41 pm

Postby meboeck » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:42 pm

Swan Lake is another good example. In the original ballet the swan princess says she will die if her true love is broken. When the prince is tricked, he seals her fate, but he loves her so much that decides to die with her. The final scene is the prince and all the swans drowning in a storm.
*insert poem, quote, or witty comment here*

"If it doesn't fit, you must edIT! -- [color=#cc3322]MOES."
[/color]
User avatar
meboeck
 
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Earth

Postby ShiroiHikari » Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:01 am

The original version of The Little Mermaid is really sad too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_little_mermaid
fightin' in the eighties
User avatar
ShiroiHikari
 
Posts: 7564
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 12:00 pm
Location: Somewhere between 1983 and 1989

Postby TurkishMonky » Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:23 am

Mother goose rhymes were usually based in some unpleaset aspect of scociety as well. Just picture humpty dumpty, jack and jill, the creepily weird guy who keps his wife in a pumpkin(was it?), and the rest... but i guess getting children used to the perils of medieval living early on was probably for the best.
User avatar
TurkishMonky
 
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:07 am

Postby uc pseudonym » Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:42 am

AnimeHeretic wrote:Same here-- so I presume it's the stories and not the premise that leads to it.

I had a similar thought. That, or I have been given the children's version my entire life.

ShiroiHikari wrote:The original version of The Little Mermaid is really sad too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_little_mermaid

Any sadness the story (as told in the Wikipedia article) might have envoked in me would have been killed by the last sentence.
User avatar
uc pseudonym
 
Posts: 15506
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:00 am
Location: Tanzania

Postby yukinon » Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:52 am

TurkishMonky wrote:but i guess getting children used to the perils of medieval living early on was probably for the best.


Good point, Monky.

From what I know "Ring around the Rosy" was originally about the plague, as well. They taught us that sometime in elementary school. Perhaps fifth grade.
9&&|(=|()v&
User avatar
yukinon
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 1:06 pm
Location: with a diva rabbit

Postby mitsuki lover » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:07 pm

There's a really good book out that talks about the origins of Nursery Ryhmes.
User avatar
mitsuki lover
 
Posts: 8486
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:00 pm

Postby TurkishMonky » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:24 pm

name?
User avatar
TurkishMonky
 
Posts: 808
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:07 am

Postby Maledicte » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:25 pm

Warrior 4 Jesus wrote:was only ever told/read the sanitized versions. I knew the originals were more graphic but I've never read them. How would I find them. Just curious. Not morbid. (lol)


A good way to go is to look for Grimm's Fairy Tales at your local library. Usually they're the real thing. You won't find all the unedited fairy tales (some mentioned aren't Grimm's) but you'll find a fair amount.

Rachel wrote:Not to sound morbid or anything, but what happens?


[SPOILER]The prince isn't satisfied with *just* kissing her. She has twins and when they drink her milk, they suck out the poison and she comes back to life. [/SPOILER]
User avatar
Maledicte
 
Posts: 2078
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:39 pm

Postby kazekami » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:32 pm

SirThinks2Much wrote:That would be The Juniper Tree, correct? Oddly enough, that's my favorite Grimm's tale.

I'd also like to mention Oscar Wilde's fairy tales. While hardly morbid, they are often quite sad yet convey a message (like the Young King's lesson of humility). Good examples of fairy tales with a moral lesson.


Yeah thats the one.

I've also read some of Oscar Wilde's fairy tales. they are fun
Meow!

adopted by spirit-me-away and CephasVII

proud adopter of:
Azier the Swordsman, Sakura's Wings(kitty form), Sora(kingdom Hearts), Squall Leonhart(FFVIII and KH), Li Syaoran(Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles),
kurogane (Tsubasa Resevoir Chronicles) blessedsolitude, Animagus24, scarletfire818, LeaChan-4ever, teen4truth, Starfire1, Kura Ookami, 1BalloonPopper, Sheenar, Dunedan, Fantasy Dreamer, starfire, zelda, Erin

I like swords. They are nice and shiny and sharp. :jump:

I Love
^__^
( ^.^)
(\/ \/)
(,,)(,,)

T3h Neko
KITTIES WILL RULE THE UNIVERSE!!!!
User avatar
kazekami
 
Posts: 809
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:37 am
Location: Washington State

Next

Return to Book Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 134 guests