CAA: Christian Anime Alliance

Who here LOVED swinging the sword on Twilght princess, LOVED the airboard and the feeling you got from it in Antigrav (PS2), LOVED Beating up a 3d model of your head and what have you on Eyetoy Play, LOVED Raving rabids and WarioWare Wii, LOVES DDR and what have you...

Who loves this stuff (provided it's in its proper place, as a secondary gaming method) rather than wishing it would all go away?

Me, for one. I know i'm not the only one, but it seems like people have gotten to the point of hating it in general. When Wii hit, Motion gaming was "the future" and all anyone cared about. I HATED that idea. I didn't want this stuff outright replacing gaming I knew. Poor artwork, no longer pushing technology but exploiting the bad economy with , it frustrated me. Now it's "annoying" but I feel that neither one is true (firstly, it's not the future because motion controllers have existed since the commodore 64, and there have been motion controllers on NES, Genesis, PS1, PS2...)

I think that, as an alternative and as something to do from time to time, with friends or what have you, Motion controls are just another way to do things. So...

Who likes this stuff? What's your favorite motion gaming experience? Has anyone tried the novint falcon? Anyone have an Eyetoy, and play games like Antigrav?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=punWj-JQX84
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBNQf_-JWe4


The antigrav game is controlled by tracking your face and hands. It works well, at least unless the screen has a lot of purple on it... That seems to interrupt with the camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ1Rz2clLS0

That's the Novint Falcon. Tried it at E4all 2008. It's awesome, but too expensive right now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isHJAyCICw4

This is the Wand prototype, Richard Mark's baby, that started development concurrently with Eyetoy in 2000, after Sony bought their company. Unfortunately, as Richard Marks doesn't make GAMES but simply works with interfaces, it never saw the light of day on PS2.

I actually don't mind motion controls to a degree, provided they are only used for appropriate things.

For example: swinging remote to swing sword on screen is stupid and terrible and should die a horrible death and everyone who puts it in games should be immediately neutered or spayed so they can never reproduce and have children as stupid as they are for thinking it's good.

However, using remote to aim a shot from a crossbow or gun so that it is more accurate is totally cool and good and a definitely excellent use of motion controls and someone should give those people promotions and give them sacks of money for being so totally awesome.

So yes. Motion control is pretty cool when it's used right. The unfortunate part is 99% of games with motion controls do not use them properly. "DURRRRR SWING REMOTE TO SWING SWORD" is about as far as most of their primitive, caveman-like brains can produce.

Kinect actually has some REALLY awesome stuff coming out, as much as I hate to admit it. Dance Central is pretty neat, but what really impressed me was Yoostar2. Yeah, I know, it's already out for other stuff, but I saw the Giant Bomb video of Jeff and Brad doing clips from Norbit, Beverly Hills Cop 3, and Star Trek TNG and it was pretty hilarious and great stuff.

However, stuff like that new Sonic Riders game for Kinect? Not so much. That stuff's awful.

Well, this is the last negative thing I'll say about anything in this topic, since it would be hypocritical of me otherwise, but my issues with kinect are:

1. How much was faked in the demos on stage (see my sig pic. No, Kinect is NOT capable of anticipating your movements... there's no such thing as reverse lag)
2. They're using a 3d camera, but almost nothing that's done on it couldn't be done with a 2d camera. Including that Yoostar game. The second camera does pretty much nothing to improve its compositing capabilities.

That having been said, I may yet be proven wrong about Kinect. I have yet to see anything that proves the value of the second camera, particularly when the RGB cam had to be gimped in order to keep the price down (it's 320x240 instead of 640x480) but that doesn't mean I'll NEVER see anything that does.

So you don't like the idea of tracking for things like swords? Hmm... Well, I disagree. I Love the visceral feeling you get from having to move to attack. It made Twilight Princess more interesting for me, and I never had experienced anything like the Soul Stealing in Folklore.

With the better tracking systems available now, I think that experience will improve even more. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4cHGugf2Z8

The fight is the perfect example of that. I think this is EXACTLY what you were saying you hated, though. To each his own.

As for Sonic Riders sucking, it's like... Don't blame the tech on that game sucking.

Speaking of to each his own, I HATE RTS games... (Shh, don't tell my students... They'll lynch me) but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kECEGekrgSk

If you like those, they're possible on Consoles now (well, they were before, and were on Wii too, but people may not have realized it, and the pointer controls on Wii and Move make them much easier)

But see that's the problem, motion controls can never and will never be good for swordfighting.

And I know this has been brought up a thousand times, but no one can provide a counter for it because it's completely true and proves motion control for swordfighting is crap.

When I swing my remote, and the character swings his sword, his sword can and will get stopped by objects in the game world. My remote will not be stopped by anything. Thus, it puts the remote out of sync with the character's actions, screwing up any perceived "immersion" in the battle. Plus, it's just annoying since buttons are far more precise and provide tactile feedback.

Now admittedly, the video you linked of The Fight is pretty awesome. That's a really cool use of motion controls.

Unfortunately, it means you can't play co-op with a friend. That kind of sucks.

Nate (post: 1420829) wrote:When I swing my remote, and the character swings his sword, his sword can and will get stopped by objects in the game world. My remote will not be stopped by anything. Thus, it puts the remote out of sync with the character's actions, screwing up any perceived "immersion" in the battle. Plus, it's just annoying since buttons are far more precise and provide tactile feedback.

I have to admit, I hate motion control in this way and is pretty much the reason I really really don't like TP. It's annoying, tends to be pretty slow and isn't always accurate. It just isn't fun for me.

But I'm fine with SOME motion control mind you. Monster Hunter Tri for the Wii did it right, methinks. Instead of just "hur swing wiimote in certain direction to swing blade wepon" it utilizes both the remote and the buttons and isn't full motion. Let's say I wanted to do a great sword charge attack. I would hold the wiimote pointing upwards and hold A, kind of like how the actual character is holding the sword over his shoulder and supah chargin his GS. Granted, it takes a little while getting used to this sort of control scheme but I fell in love with it honestly.

Motion + buttons is pretty awesome in sword fighting whathaveyou. Pure motion? No.

For the most part I like motion control. I didn't like Twilight Princess anyways, and yes, I hated the motion controls for it. But since I mostly played games like Okami, Trauma Center: SO and, of course, Metroid, I think I happened to get the better side of motion control.
I saw the Kinect set up at the MoA and although it would have helped if the person using it wasn't about four years old, I thought it had potential, if the right games are made for it. Some games, I can't quite see as having good controls because unlike other motion controlled games before it, there's nothing physical that you're holding onto, and then it just gets awkward. Like FPS games. Racing games wouldn't be as bad, as far as I've seen.

This probably is just going to be tacked onto the end, but I've seen motion controls on earlier systems and although my memory is poor I can't remember there being much of a problem. I think it was for the Genesis, a baseball game where you held onto a "bat" and used that to play.
Also, I've seen videos of the Power Glove being used. That was terrible.

Ante Bellum (post: 1420845) wrote:For the most part I like motion control. I didn't like Twilight Princess anyways, and yes, I hated the motion controls for it. But since I mostly played games like Okami, Trauma Center: SO and, of course, Metroid, I think I happened to get the better side of motion control.

Probably, but I also played Trauma Center and I played Okami but that was on the PS2. I've also played hunting games for the Wii too. It wasn't so much me not knowing how to use it or getting the hang of it, the controls were just really awkward. I actually got used to it after a while but it still wasn't fun so I just quit.

That isn't the only reason I really disliked TP but eh, I won't go into that here.

I bought Twilight Princess for the Gamecube (since it was originally a Gamecube game, there was no reason to put it on the Wii except money-grubbing, and the motion controls suck). And yeah, it was a pretty disappointing Zelda game for a lot of reasons.

That snow dungeon though...so awesome.

The only good experience I've had with motion control is Wii Sports Resort. Every other Wii game I've tried to play has been frustrating as all hell (I'm looking at you Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros).

I, too, hate motion control sword games. HERPA DERPA I SWING MY WIIMOTE AROUND LIKE IT IS A SWORD ISN'T THAT COOL? :I

Also I don't think DDR counts as motion control. You might be stepping on things instead of using your fingers but it's still basically the same thing as button inputs. (You can use a PS2 controller and play with your fingers if you're a lazy so-and-so like me.) Now something like Dance Maniax or Para Para Paradise, yeah that's totally motion control.

I like the motion for shooting things... And the nun-chuck shakey for some sort of special. XP

ShiroiHikari wrote:(I'm looking at you Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros).

You can use a Classic/Gamecube controller for Mario Kart Wii. I know I did, because I used the Wii Wheel for one race and was like "Well this is a worthless piece of crap that sucks."

And the nun-chuck shakey for some sort of special. XP

supersonicNO.jpg

Nate (post: 1420920) wrote:You can use a Classic/Gamecube controller for Mario Kart Wii. I know I did, because I used the Wii Wheel for one race and was like "Well this is a worthless piece of crap that sucks."

Yeah, if I ever play that game again (not looking good at this point) I'm totally using a GC/Classic controller because holy crap the Wii Wheel.

supersonicNO.jpg

Heh heh heh.

I like the Wii. I just don't like the vast majority of the games for it.

Htom Sirveaux (post: 1420959) wrote:I like the Wii. I just don't like the vast majority of the games for it.

This is pretty much how I feel. There are great games for the system, but not nearly as many as there are on the other consoles or handhelds.

Maybe it'll change in the future, but to me it still feels like most games (on the Wii or otherwise) just use motion controls as a gimmick.

Yeah, it's kind of fun playing a game with motion controls at first, but the novelty soon wears off in a matter of minutes.

It took me a little while to get used to using the wii remote for steering in Mario Kart, but now I like it. I never use the wheel, that thing just makes it uncomfortable. You can also use the nunchuck and use it just like an N64 controller, which is what my sister does... works great until she puts the nunchuck in the wrong hand and can't figure out why it doesn't feel right =P

Rewin (post: 1420978) wrote:It took me a little while to get used to using the wii remote for steering in Mario Kart, but now I like it. I never use the wheel, that thing just makes it uncomfortable.

Yeah, the wheel should have been attatched to something that stayed grounded, instead of floating in the air... It's better just to use the controller if it's gonna float.

I'm not all that into racing games as a whole, but when I do play them I also love using motion controls. I used tilt controls on motorstorm, and didn't bother going back. It just felt better. The same cannot be said of flying games, for some reason, though I don't hate motion controlled flying as much as some do.

Actually, Antigrav's flying portions took a while to get used to, but when I figured them out, It felt like an accomplishment and I loved doing it, if only to show off. I would get every red target, but never quite managed to make it to the best track...

Nate (post: 1420920) wrote:supersonicNO.jpg

So you don't like putting out fires on Resistance? It's fun to set up 4 player games and give someone a non-sixaxis controller and then light them on fire.

On a different topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdEQKNxrkew

As one of the very few people I know who actually does the singing parts on Rock Band, I'd totally get Singstar, but I wouldn't have anyone to play it with.

I never played Resistance but if I have to shake a controller to put out a fire I would be annoyed and say "What they couldn't find a button to assign that to? Idiots."

I am a loyal Nintendo player all the way (Unless they come out on the bottom the next 2 systems), I didn't like the motions until I got used to it but now I understand it it's SO easy, and remember the Wii/Nintendo was the first to acturally try to develop full motion capabilities, Skyward Sword looks nice (We'll see in time) but now Nintendo is moving on to 3D with their 3DS, We'll also see how that goes. Nintendo was always ahead of the others (Until they didn't bother with the graphics card that they are paying for deeply...)

but I do agree that swords should be buttons and shots should be motion and racing should be banned (Just Kidding) I'm just not into racing games and FPS

Nate (post: 1421014) wrote:I never played Resistance but if I have to shake a controller to put out a fire I would be annoyed and say "What they couldn't find a button to assign that to? Idiots."

Because every other button is used? Or because the first thing many players would do when lit on fire is shake the controller in a panic (same motion to shake off the Chimaera that cling to you)

Hey, wait a minute, people hate the Wheel? I liked the Wii Wheel/controller-on-its-side setup for Mario Kart (and for SSBB, for that matter) and I think racing games are one of the better uses for motion controls; it's more immersive than using it for a sword, at least. That's probably just the Daytona USA/arcade racers I play speaking, but whatever.

But yeah, I don't think motion control is going to stick around that long - there are some genres where it works well, but in the end, there's only so many ways you can shake a controller. What I do think will stick around, however, is an infrared pointer, like they have in the Wiimote. With more non-gaming, more PC-like functions (social networking, Netflix) moving to game consoles, it's only natural that you'd have a mouse-like device so you can control it all more easily. It'd also substantially improve conversions of games between PCs and consoles (on that note, where's my Wii RTS, dang it, I've waited four years for one). I envision a setup similar to what the Wii's Remote+Classic controller looks like, where you have a pointer attached to a more standard controller.

Seems like I'm one of the few who liked the Wii wheel for Mario Kart. I should try the classic controller though because there are times when the wheel is unresponsive.
By the way, I don't think a Wii RTS would work. They have never worked on consoles. There's just not enough buttons.

Saved Gamer (post: 1421033) wrote: They have never worked on consoles. There's just not enough buttons.

Psst! PS3 has bluetooth keyboard support! And USB, too, but that's tied to the cable. The Bluetooth kind lets you sit on your couch.


Just saying.

Oh, and here's the best collection of all the move tech Demos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtY12ziHuII&feature=sub

The sword demo only lasts a few seconds, don't worry...

If you actually know how to drive or have used an actual racing wheel like the ones that have come out for the PS and X-Box series, you start finding the Wii wheel really really irritating, and harder to drive with, especially if you're arms get tired and you change the angle you're holding it at. I've had it actually reverse the direction I was turning because I moved it too fast, and the lack of resistance makes figuring out how far you actually turned HARDER than using a joystick.

Bobtheduck wrote:Psst! PS3 has bluetooth keyboard support!

Psst! The Wii has a wireless keyboard too! You can also use an adapter to use a keyboard and mouse on the 360!

But the fact that all current-gen systems allow you to use a keyboard means nothing, because the games aren't usually programmed to support them to the level that a PC version of a game would (which is why there's so few RTS games for consoles). The keyboards are mostly used for text input on chats and stuff on consoles.

Furen wrote:I am a loyal Nintendo player all the way (Unless they come out on the bottom the next 2 systems)

Wow. "I only like them if they're not losing." I hope you don't watch sports, because fair-weather fans are the most annoying people in the world.

the Wii/Nintendo was the first to acturally try to develop full motion capabilities

kevinspaceyWRONG.jpg

Nintendo was always ahead of the others

Okay, now I know better how old you are. You can't be any older than 15 at the most, because if you were older than that you'd remember the huge Sega Genesis/Super Nintendo fight of the early to mid-90's. Nintendo was actually losing out to Sega big-time, and the two consoles were pretty much even in terms of sales.

The N64 did well at first, but ultimately lost out to the Playstation in a big way, due to the fact that at the time Nintendo didn't want disc-based games, due to the ease of pirating from them. But cartridge technology was expensive...REALLY expensive, so N64 games usually retailed for 70-80 dollars, whereas PS1 games retailed for around 50-60. This hit Nintendo hard.

The Gamecube didn't fare any better against the PS2. I mean the Gamecube was awesome, don't get me wrong, but the PS2 was clearly dominant in the last generation of gaming. The only time Nintendo has been ahead of the others was during the NES days when they were top dog, and this generation because of the wider appeal of the Wii and its lower price point.

Also what Mech said about the wheel. It was really hard to figure out just how much to turn the wheel to turn your character. Which is why I used it for one race and realized it sucked, and grabbed a Gamecube controller and was like "This is the only way to play."

Okay guys, let's strive to be a little less acidic with our responses, please. No need to get caustic and mean over video game systems.

That being said, I dunno about you guys but I am awesome at using the Wii wheel controller for things like Mario Kart. XD It took me a try or three to figure it out and get used to it, but once I did I realized it's a lot easier to play that way. XD Also your thumbs hurt less, since you're not killing the joystick the entire time. XD

If your thumbs start hurting after a two minute race in Mario Kart then you just shouldn't be playing video games. :p

My biggest problem with a lot of the motion controls is that it takes some of the ability to quickly play some games away. Instead of learning push a to go, b to shoot, joystick/d-pad to turn, you end up with a lot of guessing and crashing. If you're like me and don't own a Wii, but like playing with friends occasionally, it's a huge barrier to playing competitively against each other when people are struggling with a motion controller and losing by 2 laps because they can't get unstuck from a wall. The game becomes unfun, since the experienced people end up bored and the new players end up frustrated.

I also learned to play Mario cart on a gameboy, so that could be part of the concern. Other things have worked OK for me, such as some of the shooting type games. Another mention would be Okami, where I wasn't great at the controls, but couldn't imagine them working better on a joystick. (the best controller for Okami would be a controller that is half DS screen, half controller so you can draw on the DS screen for attacks and pilot the character around with a joystick and buttons).

I have mixed feelings. I love the Wii Fit and Wii Sports --the motions make sense and aren't too difficult to make. Though it is hard sometimes to get the receiver to respond to your motions and you have to repeat it a few times to get it to register with they system. Like I was playing Ping Cup on the Party Games game for the Wii and it was so frustrating --I would do the necessary motion and nothing would happen again and again.

I loved the boxing game on Wii Sports. I felt like I actually had a work-out when I was done. I've been tossing around the idea of getting a Wii myself so I can have a means to exercise inside and with a visual incentive. It is hard to physically get to the gym on campus and a lot of their machines are ones I am not able to use. On the days I'm not able to go out for a walk, I think a Wii may be helpful to get in my 30 min. of exercise. Still trying to figure out if it would be cost-effective --the games are pricey. But they are also coming out with classic Nintendo games on the Wii where you just push the buttons like back in the day (NES came out around the time I was born, so I grew up on it.) So my nostalgia is making me think more about it. A chance to play Super Mario World and Kirby's Adventure legally again would be awesome.

The Wii wheel was indeed annoying when I tried it. I had much more success using the regular Wii remote. I have some trouble with coordination, so the fidgety nature of the wheel made it really hard to play the game.



Nate, the Sega Genesis was awesome. I had one and LOVED it. It was the only other game system I've owned other than a series of NES systems (when one broke, Mom found another for me) and a GameBoy Color.

I think it really depends. And no, I don't think that necessarily sword waving is a bad thing if done right, although it will doubtlessly remove some people from the original target audience. I'd say that the more overall gimmicky use of it annoys me the most. Some of it is mandatory sure, but they've literally spawned crappy games that otherwise would not have been good enough to hit the market if they where not motion controls. Trust me, their use of it do not improve those said games either.

Still, I don't get all fired up over the situation. If I see something I like I buy it. If I am unsure I test it and decide later. I don't think more demanding use of the motion controls is an inherent evil in itself, but it has not lived up to be deemed good so far either.

Saved Gamer (post: 1421033) wrote:Seems like I'm one of the few who liked the Wii wheel for Mario Kart. I should try the classic controller though because there are times when the wheel is unresponsive.

It feels floaty and vague.

By the way, I don't think a Wii RTS would work. They have never worked on consoles. There's just not enough buttons.

Halo Wars for Xbox360 is excellent. Admittedly it was designed for xbox360 so it doesn't have all the complexity of some PC RTSs but it is a comparable experience on a console.